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The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-20, 10:07 PM
Hello fellow disinfo agents :roll: --

Got a sec? I am conducting an experiment.

Find all the places on my website (not this bulletin board) where I link to Bart Sibrel's website. When you reply, list how many pages you found, how many links there were, how you found them, and how long it took. The last part is important.

Here's a hint. The website address is www dot moonmovie dot com (if I write it out with actual dots, the BB software makes it a link).

I will explain later. Promise.

JayUtah
2003-Aug-20, 10:25 PM
First pass (http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&num=100&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=moonmovie&as_oq=&as_eq =&lr=&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_occt=any& as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=badastronomy.com&safe=images )

Two sites, search time ~1 minute.

link edited by The Bad Astronomer to prevent horizontal scrolling (forgive me, JayUtah!)

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-20, 10:31 PM
Not bad.

Any others? There are more links...

frenat
2003-Aug-20, 10:41 PM
2 more links here
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/sibrel.html

took a few minutes, I had to search for Bart Sibrel too.

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-20, 10:52 PM
Excellent. There are indeed four links. In fact, there is another one in my "What's New" section, but that one is admittedly tough to find.

So, why did I ask?

I received an email from one Bart Winfield Sibrel the other day, asking me, if you can believe it, to link to his site! I replied, telling him I did, several times. He replied back saying he couldn't find the links.

Even if one doesn't use my search engine, where would you look? I would think the Apollo page linked at the top of my main page would be a good place to start. From there, you are one click away to my list of Moon Hoax pages. His is linked there.

This man claims to have thoroughly researched the Apollo Moon program. Draw your own conclusions.

BigJim
2003-Aug-20, 10:59 PM
http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/apollohoax.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/sibrel.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue14.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue13.html

These four sites took me about a minute to find.


You also mention Bart but do not link to his website on these pages:

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue23.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue24.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/whatsnew.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue28.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue35.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue36.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue25.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/info/contact.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue9.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue31.html

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue30.htm

http://www.badastronomy.com/newsletter/issue24a.html

I found those right away on Google, took me about three minutes to link to them.

nebularain
2003-Aug-20, 11:01 PM
"Bart Sibrel's website with a "smoking gun" video " [link] - Bad Misconceptions page.

I went from the link you provided at the top of the home page about the Moon Hoax. From there, I just scrolled down looking at the various links. Under "Links" there is a link to your "Bad Misconceptions" page. (There are many websites about the Moon Hoax where you can read both the theories by the HBs themselves or what reality is like as told by people debunking the theory. I have a list of them on my Bad Misconceptions page. )

I found this link to Bart's web page in there under "Conspiracy Theories."

(I am thinking maybe he thought the link should have been placed on your home page? At the top of the "Moon Hoax" page? With flashing lights? )

BigJim
2003-Aug-20, 11:01 PM
Excellent. There are indeed four links. In fact, there is another one in my "What's New" section, but that one is admittedly tough to find.

So, why did I ask?

I received an email from one Bart Winfield Sibrel the other day, asking me, if you can believe it, to link to his site! I replied, telling him I did, several times. He replied back saying he couldn't find the links.

Even if one doesn't use my search engine, where would you look? I would think the Apollo page linked at the top of my main page would be a good place to start. From there, you are one click away to my list of Moon Hoax pages. His is linked there.

This man claims to have thoroughly researched the Apollo Moon program. Draw your own conclusions.

Uh-huh. This guy is really woo-woo. Every page I linked to in my last post linked to Sibrel's page, which in turn links to his site. He must not have read the site, but then why bother worrying what's on it?

Are you going to e-mail him a link to this thread?

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-20, 11:04 PM
Are you going to e-mail him a link to this thread?

Naw. Let him find it. 8)

frenat
2003-Aug-20, 11:10 PM
Are you going to e-mail him a link to this thread?

Naw. Let him find it. 8)


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

JayUtah
2003-Aug-20, 11:13 PM
Every so often I romp through the web to see who's linking to my site and in what context. It's really not hard to find links.

I'd seriously demand that Sibrel prominently link to your site. If he truly believes, and would stake his life on it, that his conclusions are sound, then theoretically he should be able to withstand any criticism, any attempts at refutation, any counterarguments, or any facts that you or I or anyone else ought to be able to produce here. In fact, demonstrating that one's conclusions can withstand furious scrutiny is a good way of showing that they are as robust as claimed.

Clearly Mr. Sibrel has done little or no research to support his claims and continues to do little or no significant research. This is to say he does a fair job of dredging up items that appear to support his conclusion, but he omits the important step of collecting enough information about those items to demonstrate a sufficient understanding of them.

BigJim
2003-Aug-20, 11:35 PM
Every so often I romp through the web to see who's linking to my site and in what context. It's really not hard to find links.

I'd seriously demand that Sibrel prominently link to your site. If he truly believes, and would stake his life on it, that his conclusions are sound, then theoretically he should be able to withstand any criticism, any attempts at refutation, any counterarguments, or any facts that you or I or anyone else ought to be able to produce here. In fact, demonstrating that one's conclusions can withstand furious scrutiny is a good way of showing that they are as robust as claimed.


If hoaxers did that, there wouldn't be any.

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-20, 11:39 PM
I'd seriously demand that Sibrel prominently link to your site.

Bingo. I said exactly that in my email back to him yesterday. I have an email I am drafting now; I'll send it later. I will also put up a new thread with his emails in it; although it's against the rules to post email verbatim, I can paraphrase some, and he specifically asked me to print others.

BigJim
2003-Aug-20, 11:49 PM
I'd seriously demand that Sibrel prominently link to your site.

Bingo. I said exactly that in my email back to him yesterday. I have an email I am drafting now; I'll send it later. I will also put up a new thread with his emails in it; although it's against the rules to post email verbatim, I can paraphrase some, and he specifically asked me to print others.

Sibrel e-mails? Ooo...... :o

Papa Bear
2003-Aug-21, 01:19 AM
I will also put up a new thread with his emails in it; although it's against the rules to post email verbatim, I can paraphrase some, and he specifically me to print others.

--snipped--

Oh, boy! Thank you Uncle Phil! I LOVE funny stories....more, more, more!

Papa Bear
2003-Aug-21, 01:20 AM
Hey! I'm a bad apprentice! How'd that happen?

BigJim
2003-Aug-21, 01:51 AM
Hey! I'm a bad apprentice! How'd that happen?

Magic. :P

Kaptain K
2003-Aug-21, 01:51 AM
Hey! I'm a bad apprentice! How'd that happen?
Your "post count" passed 101. Congratulations! =D>

Jigsaw
2003-Aug-21, 02:06 AM
He replied back saying he couldn't find the links.
Well, obviously what he's looking for is his name in lights...






BART SIBREL'S WEBSITE!!
CLICK NOW!!
LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT NASA!! (http://www.moonmovie.com/)




Like that...

:roll:

BigJim
2003-Aug-21, 02:12 AM
He replied back saying he couldn't find the links.
Well, obviously what he's looking for is his name in lights...






BART SIBREL'S WEBSITE!!
CLICK NOW!!
LEARN THE TRUTH ABOUT NASA!! (http://www.moonmovie.com/)






Like that...

:roll:

=D> =D> =D>

Papa Bear
2003-Aug-21, 02:16 AM
Hey, now Jigsaw just gave him another link. How can he complain about that?

In case you haven't heard, I'm officially <ahem> a Bad Apprentice.

I wanna a link, too! WAH!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

BigJim
2003-Aug-21, 02:19 AM
Hey, now Jigsaw just gave him another link. How can he complain about that?

In case you haven't heard, I'm officially <ahem> a Bad Apprentice.

I wanna a link, too! WAH!!!! :cry: :cry: :cry:

[size=24][color=red]
SEE PAPA BEAR'S PROFILE!
AND ALL THE STUFF ON IT!
YEAH!
[size=12][color=default] (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=744)

You mean like that? :wink:

jrkeller
2003-Aug-21, 02:19 AM
BA,

You to tell him that you have a couple of links to

www.bartsibrel.com

If you haven't been there yet go.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

BigJim
2003-Aug-21, 02:21 AM
BA,

You to tell him that you have a couple of links to

www.bartsibrel.com

If you haven't been there yet go.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Wow, what a site. :roll:

Papa Bear
2003-Aug-21, 06:31 AM
[size=24][color=red]
SEE PAPA BEAR'S PROFILE!
AND ALL THE STUFF ON IT!
YEAH!
[size=12][color=default] (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/profile.php?mode=viewprofile&u=744)

You mean like that? :wink:

Yeah!!! Hey, wait. Now I gotta go put some interesting lies on it.

kucharek
2003-Aug-21, 06:44 AM
I received an email from one Bart Winfield Sibrel the other day, asking me, if you can believe it, to link to his site! I replied, telling him I did, several times. He replied back saying he couldn't find the links.

Are you sure it's really Bart? Ask him for rock-solid proof of his claim to be Bart! We know how easily things can be faked! :lol:

Can you imagine the feast we would have if he would appear here on the board?

Kaptain K
2003-Aug-21, 09:55 AM
Yep! And so can he. That's why It isn't going to happen! [-X

Glom
2003-Aug-21, 03:12 PM
Doesn't he know who you are? Anyone who can even claim remote associations with the Apollohoax must have heard of two names: Jay Windley and Philip Plait.

The Shade
2003-Aug-21, 04:32 PM
Are you sure it's really Bart? Ask him for rock-solid proof of his claim to be Bart! We know how easily things can be faked! :lol:

Can you imagine the feast we would have if he would appear here on the board?

Actually, this is a very good question. I can still remember someone creating a site call BartSiebrel dot com. In it, the website's author stated that Bart was a lying sleazy person who doesn't care for the truth. We all know that website didn't have anything to do with Bart, even though it was still fun to read.

2003-Aug-21, 05:01 PM
Yep! And so can he. That's why It isn't going to happen! [-Xcount me in on this count
count me in n this count2
It will take me Just over two years
{in other words when next months new Mac's are TO BE replaced
with the new {academic budget } Mac's } I will hav my answer ready
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
remember the "PERL"(spyder i was working on ) Summer term '03
was avoided pending Bushes Visit to UP not to be confused with PU
or PSU
=====
PS Should Police be looking over your sholder please do not read this

JayUtah
2003-Aug-21, 05:28 PM
Phil and Bart have directly debated each other on more than one occasion. If Bart hasn't yet connected Phil to the Bad Astronomy web site then he's a dimmer bulb than we have previously imagined. Phil mentions his web site and mine in almost every encounter with Sibrel.

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-21, 05:46 PM
Hmmmm. There are some misconceptions floating around in this thread. :o

Yes, He knows exactly who I am. Or at least he thinks he does; perhaps he really believes I am a NASA disinfo agent. It's possible. But he knows I run this site and all that. We've debated twice, after all! We've also both been on the same TV shows a few times, though not filmed together.

Anyway, he emailed me specifically asking for a link to his site from mine. I replied that I already have some, and made a comment about his researching skills. :wink:

I want to send off the next email and get his response, and then I'll post a synopsis of all this.

BigJim
2003-Aug-21, 08:52 PM
Yes, He knows exactly who I am. Or at least he thinks he does; perhaps he really believes I am a NASA disinfo agent.

We all are. That's why we are defending the Apollo missions which, according to famous scientists NASAscam and RoseG, were so obviously faked. :roll:

frenat
2003-Aug-21, 10:01 PM
Yep, but still waiting for that check. :roll:

DataCable
2003-Aug-22, 05:36 AM
Yes, He knows exactly who I am. Or at least he thinks he does; perhaps he really believes I am a NASA disinfo agent.
Yo, BA. His e-mails didn't happen to contain a sig in some extremely small font reading something to the effect of: "By replying to this e-mail, you affirm, under penalty of purjury and oath on the Holy Bible, that you are in fact a dis-information agent for the NASA military-industrial complex." ... did it?

Just wondering. 8-[

(ps, now awaiting the 2am run of your appearance on Unscrewed)

DataCable
2003-Aug-22, 05:39 AM
Yep, but still waiting for that check. :roll:
You haven't gotten your check yet? I'll remember to bring that up at the next super-secret conspiracy coordination council meeting.

#-o Oops!

kucharek
2003-Aug-22, 05:57 AM
Yep, but still waiting for that check. :roll:
You haven't gotten your check yet? I'll remember to bring that up at the next super-secret conspiracy coordination council meeting.
Can you also debate the question about raising the pay for the European agents? Since the Euro went up, I'm not very happy with the US$ payment. Maybe you can fix the sum in Euro?

Kaptain K
2003-Aug-22, 08:03 AM
Eventually*, there will be a "world currency". :o The euro is the first step in that direction. 8)

* Probably not in my lifetime. :(

kucharek
2003-Aug-22, 08:31 AM
Eventually*, there will be a "world currency". :o The euro is the first step in that direction. 8)

* Probably not in my lifetime. :(

Thank you for the flowers.

I think, we are a far from having something like a world currency. Maybe the Euro will get more and more important, depending on the politics of the ECB. Roughly said - I don't want to start a big political discussion here - many countries feel that the US isn't giving very much attention for their currency with respect to exchange rates and so on. ECB has a different attitude, and so maybe more and more countries rely on Euro instead of Dollar. If the arabs ever change from pricing in Dollar to Euro, this would be a significant change. But this would be a political minefield.

In general, though the EU has plenty of trouble, it is still a very attractive example of what can happen. In the last 300 years, nearly any country had been at war with any other. And now we use the same money.
And tourists from abroad, like from the US, also have a bargain. If you do Europe in a week, you have to change much less often money then before. If you do Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Greece, you only need Euro. Makes it also easier to compare prices, especially when exchange rates Euro/Dollar are close to 1:1.

Astronot
2003-Aug-22, 02:43 PM
Eventually*, there will be a "world currency". :o The euro is the first step in that direction. 8)

* Probably not in my lifetime. :(

I bet Bart Sibrel hangs out with the type that are scared that they’ll wake up in the morning and the dollar will be replaced by a world currency. After all if “they” could fake a moon landing “they” could steal our sovereignty anytime, right? I am sure that many of his believers fall into both camps. (How’s that a tie back into the forum topic?) Ya, a world currency may happen, but without the free movement of labor between countries, the functionality of such a currency is problematic. The euro is a great move forward but its continued presence, though likely, is not 100% sure. Regional currencies like the euro and the Eastern Caribbean dollar will become far more common and we’ll see how workable they are in less developed parts of the world before anyone moves forward.

frenat
2003-Aug-22, 02:49 PM
Yep, but still waiting for that check. :roll:
You haven't gotten your check yet? I'll remember to bring that up at the next super-secret conspiracy coordination council meeting.

#-o Oops!

Please do that. It has been a while since I've been to a SSCCC meeting. I'm still figuring out how to pronounce the acronym.

frenat
2003-Aug-22, 02:51 PM
I don't know how far we are from a world currency but we're getting really close to a cashless society. Some of the fast food restaurants in town have started accepting credit cards now and I rarely carry cash anymore.

JayUtah
2003-Aug-22, 03:03 PM
It has been a while since I've been to a SSCCC meeting. I'm still figuring out how to pronounce the acronym.

My attempt to pronounce it sounds like the door-opening sound effect on "Star Trek".

The Shade
2003-Aug-22, 05:01 PM
It has been a while since I've been to a SSCCC meeting. I'm still figuring out how to pronounce the acronym.

My attempt to pronounce it sounds like the door-opening sound effect on "Star Trek".

Hmmm... good one. My attempt sounded like SssKhah. Must be some sort of Klingon word that is untranslatable.

Donnie B.
2003-Aug-22, 05:14 PM
It's pronounced "sic", as in "sic 'em!"

BigJim
2003-Aug-22, 07:55 PM
It has been a while since I've been to a SSCCC meeting. I'm still figuring out how to pronounce the acronym.

My attempt to pronounce it sounds like the door-opening sound effect on "Star Trek".

Hmmm... good one. My attempt sounded like SssKhah. Must be some sort of Klingon word that is untranslatable.

It is Klingon. You know how Der Voron says we needed antigravs to reach the Moon? Guess who sold them to us. For a reduced price. Also, at the next SSCCC meeting, be sure to figure a way to get the LRV to the Moon. Still can't figure out how that rover could have fit into the LM. Maybe we could say it folded?

And by the way, Der Voron raised a good point that should also go on the agenda - did the Apollo astronauts actually get back to the CSM by climbing the rope that was hanging out of it? We'll have to check the SSOHGCCR (Super Secret Official Hidden Government Coverup Conspiracy Records) to see what actually happened.

And I didn't get my check either.

(I hope Bart Sibrel is reading this....... :) )

nebularain
2003-Aug-23, 12:02 PM
I want to send off the next email and get his response, and then I'll post a synopsis of all this.
Why do I have the feeling we are going to have to wait a long time for his response . . . . :-?

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-29, 11:47 PM
BA,

You to tell him that you have a couple of links to

www.bartsibrel.com

If you haven't been there yet go.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

Gee I may just go get his IP Address, then for a beer, one of my hacker friends WILL do some happy faces all over his homepage.... Two Beersand he'll probably wipe out the web site..... (Darn rednecks, sometimes good, sometimes bad)...
darn things, just cant get rid of em :)

Musashi
2003-Aug-30, 12:10 AM
I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself, but I have a strong feeling that the BA would not condone hacking Sibrel's website.

Archer17
2003-Aug-30, 12:59 AM
Think before you type, JustplainBadatEverything. A lot of people read this board and whether you're joking or not, it's not the BABB way.

JayUtah
2003-Aug-30, 02:25 AM
Hacking someone's site is counterproductive. Might doesn't make right. It just gives the victim a legitimate reason to complain.

johnwitts
2003-Aug-30, 10:11 AM
Besides, that's not Sibrel's website, it's a site aimed at getting people to think more about the stuff they read on the internet...

kucharek
2003-Aug-30, 02:43 PM
Hacking a Twinkies site is absolutely against our usual style. Actually, I guess ** would be happy if some evil governmental forces would hack his site to hinder him spreading the truth. :^o

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-30, 04:42 PM
Hacking a Twinkies site is absolutely against our usual style. Actually, I guess ** would be happy if some evil governmental forces would hack his site to hinder him spreading the truth. :^o

So if the sight is truthful, then no problem. If the site is untruthful, should it be changed to reflect the truth? Or is the this board here to just complain about it? Complain all day but action speaks louder than words anyday... (Reminds me of the wife, gripe gripe gripe but she doesnt do anything about it)

Musashi
2003-Aug-30, 04:57 PM
Well, truthfull or not, it is still a crime to hack someone else's website. If that is the only way you can think to combat Sibrel and people like him, then maybe you are in the wrong place. Would it be ok for someone to edit your posts, if they thought your posts could be made 'more truthful?'

Seriously, you need to change your attitude. I wouldn't say that we do nothing here to change things. We combat ignorance on a daily basis. Our actions have the added benefit of being completely legal. If you feel that Sibrel's website violates some tenant of law, feel free to pursue a legal remedy. If you just want to trash his first amendment rights because you can, or you don't like what he is saying, we are not going to give you any applause. If that is the way you deal with things, I would suggest that this board is not the place for you.

JayUtah
2003-Aug-30, 05:18 PM
Or is the this board here to just complain about it?

We do far more here than complain. We present the other side of the story, complete with its scientific justification. That lets people decide between two viewpoints, one of which emerges as clearly better reasoned than the other. The point is not to shut Sibrel up by removing his ability to speak. The point is to convince people that Sibrel shouldn't be listened to, by providing in its place something that is worth listening to.

Complain all day but action speaks louder than words anyday...

Might doesn't make right. Hacking his site would play right into his hands. Bart Sibrel has a persecution complex. He thinks people are out to get him and out to silence him -- by force if necessary. Let's say someone hacks his site. He'll just go back on Art Bell or somewhere else and say, "See what those pro-NASA stooges did to me? They're so desperate to keep their secret that they hacked my site to keep me from telling this story. Clearly I'm onto something."

Beating up Bart Sibrel on the playground does absolutely nothing to demonstrate that he's wrong and we're right. If history has told us anything it's that clubs and spears have almost no effect on an idea.

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-30, 05:19 PM
Seriously, you need to change your attitude. I wouldn't say that we do nothing here to change things. We combat ignorance on a daily basis. Our actions have the added benefit of being completely legal. If you feel that Sibrel's website violates some tenant of law, feel free to pursue a legal remedy. If you just want to trash his first amendment rights because you can, or you don't like what he is saying, we are not going to give you any applause. If that is the way you deal with things, I would suggest that this board is not the place for you.[/quote]

Yeah your right, gotta have them first amendment rights. Even if it means one is not telling the truth. Anything for the publicity.
Actually I have never been to SB's site, nor do I plan too.

TriangleMan
2003-Aug-30, 05:21 PM
If you just want to trash his first amendment rights because you can, or you don't like what he is saying, we are not going to give you any applause. If that is the way you deal with things, I would suggest that this board is not the place for you.

Musashi, the 'first amendment' has little bearing on the internet. This Board edits posts for swearing, moderates for politeness and bans posters. In other words, this Board completely violates this 'first amendment' Americans like to go on about. On top of that you hint that JPBAE should not visit here if he doesn't agree with your point of view? Bad form. [-X

While I don't support hacking sites or attempting to silence critics I don't think JPBAE's post was really that out of line. Not that my opinion matters in that regard, the only opinion that matters as to whether something is out of line is BA's opinion.

I leave you with your own quote:

Seriously, you need to change your attitude.

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-30, 05:21 PM
[
Yeah your right, gotta have them first amendment rights. Even if it means one is not telling the truth. Anything for the publicity.
Actually I have never been to SB's site, nor do I plan too.[/quote]

Oh never mind, Im just a Bad Newbie, Bad Newbie! (Slapping my hand)Im gonna go take a nap now and listen to the rain and thunderstorms..

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-30, 05:28 PM
How long do I get to be a Bad Newbie? 1st 100 posts or something like that?
OK NOW time for my nap....

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-30, 05:31 PM
As has been pointed out, I do not condone hacking into other people's sites. I don't even condone posting rudely or baiting at other fora.

JPBAE, it is simply not the way to accomplish anything. The way to counter bad speech is to use more speech, not your fist (metaphorically*). Whether I agree with Sibrel or not doesn't matter; unless he is guilty of fraud or something else illegal, he has the right to his website. If you want to prove him guilty of fraud, then please, go ahead and prove it. But hacking isn't the way to do it.

Think of it this way: there are honest people out there who think the Apollo landings were faked, and I am wrong. Does that give them the right to hack my site? No. I am not a big fan of absolute relativism (hmmm, that sounds like an oxymoron) but in this case it makes a good point. That's why we have a justice system, and a Constitution to base it on.

* Yes, I know Buzz used his fists, but he wasn't countering speech, he was defending himself against a man who outweighed him by nearly 50 pounds, was in his face, and wouldn't get out of the way after repeated attempts on Buzz's part to escape.

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-30, 05:41 PM
Hacking someone's site is counterproductive. Might doesn't make right. It just gives the victim a legitimate reason to complain.

Naw wouldnt do that, but I got ya'll typing and talkin again, and thats what counts!! :)

JayUtah
2003-Aug-30, 05:43 PM
Yeah your right, gotta have them first amendment rights. Even if it means one is not telling the truth.

Yes, exactly. The First Amendment is there to protect unpopular speech because what other kind would need any protection?

Silence the speakers who don't tell the truth, eh? What about those cases in which the truth isn't cut and dried? Who then decides what's true and what isn't? What are you going to do when this authority decides that what you want to say isn't true and therefore you can't say it?

You argue for censorship, but are you willing to be censored?

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-30, 07:50 PM
Naw wouldnt do that, but I got ya'll typing and talkin again, and thats what counts!! :)

No, that's called trolling, and I frown on that as much as I do suggesting that people hack into websites to deface them. Together, those make for a single warning. In fun or not, please do not post such things on this board.

Musashi
2003-Aug-30, 08:29 PM
Triangle Man, I am sure that protecting the rights of people to expressive themselves is a pretty universal trait of fair-minded societies. Also, nowhere did I say that I think that the 1st amendment is the pillar of my belief system. Editing posts for swearing and such, is a lot different than editing for content (like goes on at Tezzar/Hardee's site). I don't know where the vitrol toward me came from, but maybe I should not have invoked the first amendment, maybe I should have just said that people have the right to creaet websites about anything they want within certain boundaries (no libel etc.).

I was not suggesting that JPBAE not visit here, or even post here, but making statements like the ones he made are not really conducive to the goals of this board. If he wishes to express his 'first amendment' rights, he is free to do so in his own place.

Perhaps you do not understand the concept of free speach. Let me explain. Bart Sibrel runs his own site. it is his, so he is the final arbiter of what gets put up there. He has total freedom of speech with regard to that site. There are things he could say that would get him into legal trouble, but he is free to say them. You and I do not have any right to step in and deface his site. If he is making libelous statements, notify the authorities and let them handle it.

Now, the BA runs and owns this site. He is the final arbiter of what goes on here. If he wants to edit posts to eliminate cusswords, or delete spam, that is his right as owner of this site. His ownership trumps any right you have to free speech here. But, all that means is that he has the right to remove posts, in part or whole. He has a moral obligation not to change a post to the extent that it's meaning can be taken in another way than the poster intended. So, if Phil wanted to ban me and remove every post I have ever made here, that does not violate my free speech.

If I, or you, or JPBAE wants to have the total freedom to express ourselves, we must create our own sites. There, JPBAE could endorse, conde, recruit attempts to hack Sibrel's site. That would be his right. If those attempts could be traced back to JPBAE's site, he would probably be legally culpable.

So, I was not suggesting that JPBAE goes away. I was just pointing out that his statements were not really in tune with how the people here operate. I also do not like the characterization of my previous post as going on about the first amendment. I further, do not like your characterization of Americans as liking to go on about the first Amendment. I will conceed that my quote:
Seriously, you need to change your attitude. Was probably too much. However, myself and several others had attempted to be polite about the hacking issue and JPBAE came back at us in what I construed as an insulting manner.

I apologize to you JPBAE for being rude to you (and also for shortening your name, if I typed it out every time I would have surely made many spelling mistakes :)).

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-30, 08:47 PM
I like initials.
No Problem, Im still trying to figure this stuff out myself...
Now I gotta go find a dictionary and find out what troling means... The only troling I know of is the kind on a shrimp boat when your troling for shrimp (Cajun talk)...... No wait, thats Trawling!!

Now what was the original subject so we can get back at it???

Gee and I had to edit (First time)... Learnin already

JustplainBadatEverything
2003-Aug-30, 08:58 PM
Yep, but still waiting for that check. :roll:

You mean Ive been watching all them training films on Nasa TV for nothing??? I better get "The Treehouse Detectives" in on this one....

Donnie B.
2003-Aug-30, 11:16 PM
If you feel that Sibrel's website violates some tenant of law...
What's that? Somebody who lives in a courthouse? :P

Sorry, I don't mean to be over-critical. The word you want is 'tenet', I think, and your choice just struck my funny bone... :wink:

Musashi
2003-Aug-30, 11:34 PM
Aye, I make plenty of spelling mistakes and such, as long as my meaning is clear, I'll leave it in, otherwise your post wouldn't make sense :) Also, it is pretty funny...

JayUtah
2003-Aug-30, 11:35 PM
Both "troll" and "trawl" mean to catch fish by dragging a baited hook through the water. The regional differences in pronunciation may have something to do with it.

There are two meanings for "troll": the person who fishes by that method, and the beast of Scandinavian lore. Internet trolls probably fall under both meanings. Well, there's the other verb meaning: singing with gusto, as in, "Troll the ancient yuletide carol."

Fa-la-la-la-la. La la-la la.

The Bad Astronomer
2003-Aug-30, 11:57 PM
Musashi, the 'first amendment' has little bearing on the internet. This Board edits posts for swearing, moderates for politeness and bans posters. In other words, this Board completely violates this 'first amendment' Americans like to go on about.

This is straying off-topic a bit, or a lot. This will be the final post in this thread.

TriangleMan, the First Amendment says that the government shall not restrict the freedom of speech. Despite claims by lots of woowoos out there, I am not the government. This is not a government site. Therefore I can do whatever I want to any post here. I can change the content, change the wording, post pictures, anything. It's my board.

However, I don't do that. I want to encourage people to speak their minds here, which is why I do the absolute minimum I can to anyone's posts and to limit what they say. However, because not everyone out in the Internet is a mature adult, I do have to sometimes intervene. The board software does replace a lot of "bad" words, and I use my discretion on others. I ban posters who are rude, or consistently off-topic, or for other reasons.

All this is in the FAQ, which is plainly linked on every page, and which in fact I make a point of pointing out in the welcome email people receive when they sign up.

By having some limits, it makes sure that there is freedom to express ideas. That is perhaps the ultimate irony of freedom of speech: it takes responsibility to not curtail the limiting of expression.

And with that, I will lock this thread, thus exercising yet another limit. If people want to continue this conversation, take it to BABBling.