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Dunash
2002-Mar-11, 02:49 PM
http://www.rumormillnews.net/cgi-bin/config.pl?read=18017

Subject: Russian Scientist says planets' atmospheres are changing

Edited by The Bad Astronomer: DO NOT POST LONG ESSAYS HERE! Just link to them. If I think there is even a chance of copyright infringement, I will also delete posts.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Bad Astronomer on 2002-03-11 10:25 ]</font>

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Mar-11, 03:08 PM
On 2002-03-11 09:49, Dunash wrote:
And this is conscious energy that is changing how the planet works, how it functions, and what kind of life it supports.
So, is that what you are calling "human wickedness?" Seems like a stretch to me, even though I think my dog tried to talk to us yesterday.

SpacedOut
2002-Mar-11, 03:38 PM
Or perhaps Arthur C. Clarke got it right!

Bob
2002-Mar-11, 04:02 PM
That was a huge load of hogwash but I'll just comment on the first couple of paragraphs. The Mars Observer was lost a couple of days before orbit insertion, probably due to a fuel system explosion, a fact apparently unknown to the Russian Academy of Sciences. The Mars Odyssey Orbiter recently completed 3 months of aerobraking in the upper Martian atmosphere just as planned. Finally, I am unaware of any planetery probes that have mirrors attached to them. What conceivable use could they have?

Chip
2002-Mar-11, 04:17 PM
On 2002-03-11 11:02, Bob wrote:
"...I am unaware of any planetery probes that have mirrors attached to them. What conceivable use could they have?"


Backing out of the driveway? /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

The only "mirrors" on the Mars Observer are inside the spacecraft. See second paragraph under "How It Works" in this article: http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/camera_technology_000623.html
As far as I know, these are part of the light collector, and are not attached outside the craft.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Chip on 2002-03-11 11:19 ]</font>

John Kierein
2002-Mar-11, 04:40 PM
Natrium is sodium, symbol Na. Mike Mendillo of Boston U. has found huge atmospheres of sodium around the moon, mercury, and jupiter. They may have always been there, but just were never before looked for.

Kaptain K
2002-Mar-11, 04:50 PM
Dunash,
You are a hoot! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

Dunash
2002-Mar-12, 12:26 AM
In the summer 1998 Biblical Astronomer Gerardus Bouw has a mathematical article "The Waves of Sin". He shows from Biblical verses how the steady increase in height of waves in the Atlantic is related to an increase in entropy and to human behaviour. That the powers of heaven dictate the behaviour of waves spiritually & physically: through righteousness & gravity. Roaring waves are related to an increase in unrighteousness: II Samuel 22:5,Job 38:11, Psalms 88:7, 93:3, 107:21-31, Isaiah 48:18, Jeremiah 51:42, Jonah 2:3, Zechariah 10:11 etc. The amount of order in both gravity and righteousness is high ie their entropy is low. Electrical power can be generated from gravity (through falling water) with near 100% efficiency. Political & economic power can be generated with near 100% efficiency by righteous behaviour. Without truth, the binding force of order is dissolved. During the last 150 years, lies & those who believe them have abounded exponentially in the world eg evolution,uniformitarianism,that sodomy is not a sin, that adultery is acceptable, communism, socialism, the creation of fiat money etc etc. All these increase entropy on the earth, affect the gravitaional field, wave heights, frequency & violence of earthquakes & by extension into the solar system & beyond ie that sin is punished or opposed has been built as a cause & effect into the universe.

odysseus0101
2002-Mar-12, 12:37 AM
On 2002-03-11 19:26, Dunash wrote:
In the summer 1998 Biblical Astronomer Gerardus Bouw has a mathematical article "The Waves of Sin". He shows from Biblical verses how the steady increase in height of waves in the Atlantic is related to an increase in entropy and to human behaviour.


I apologize if this comes off as unnecessarily argumentative, but I just gotta know if you really, actually believe any of this tripe, or if you are just trying to help keep things lively around here. I'd also like to add that, in reference to your last post, one does not need to get into any astronomy in order to dismiss Bouw's article. In fact, addressing the astronomical aspects of it would require one to at least temporarily accept the validity of his pre-theoretical assumptions.

DStahl
2002-Mar-12, 01:19 AM
You know, I thought gravity was getting stronger. Fifteen years ago I used to stride right up those forest trails with a 50-lb pack, now it's all I can do to crawl up them carrying a water bottle and a candy bar. Darned gravity fluctuations! All you people quit behaving badly so gravity will get back to normal, like it was when I was young. Geez!

--Don Stahl

Jigsaw
2002-Mar-12, 01:37 AM
You wanna talk about Gerardus Bouw and astronomy? Well, for starters, he believes that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/ce/2/part2.html

Gerardus Bouw, Ph.D., "Why Geocentricity?" -- an article that was in press and due to appear in the Baptist Bulletin, circa Sept. 1985. Bouw is leader of the Association of Biblical Astronomy, a group of creationist Christians who teach geocentrism. He is also the author of Geocentricity, a book that argues for a literal understanding of the geocentric passages in Scripture.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/geocentr.htm

THE BASIC SCIENTIFIC ARGUMENTS
FOR GEOCENTRICITY

< snip >

...I learned about geocentricity last year at the King James Bible conference. Dr. Gerardus Bouw, a Bible-believing astronomer told us attendees all about it. I'm going to break it down for you the way Dr. Bouw broke it down for us...
This is about halfway down the page, and then there's a fairly lengthy discussion of Bouw's theory. It seems to hinge on the fact that the Bible says the sun "rises" and "sets", and since the Bible is the inerrant word of God, therefore the sun "rises" and "sets", i.e. the sun moves, not the Earth.

Fascinating stuff.

The Bad Astronomer
2002-Mar-12, 01:55 AM
Bouw is well-known to regulars here, and has been debunked numerous times. Dunash is a geocentrist as well.

odysseus0101
2002-Mar-12, 03:12 AM
On 2002-03-11 20:55, The Bad Astronomer wrote:
Bouw is well-known to regulars here, and has been debunked numerous times. Dunash is a geocentrist as well.


Thanks for the info, BA.

Martian Jim
2002-Mar-12, 06:02 AM
you telling use that the water is gonna kill us? uh-oh, better not get a pond then /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
you might get a tsunami from your pond

Chip
2002-Mar-12, 07:37 AM
On 2002-03-11 19:26, Dunash wrote a lot of stuff, and then said:
"...evolution,uniformitarianism,that sodomy is not a sin, that adultery is acceptable, communism, socialism, the creation of fiat money etc etc. All these increase entropy on the earth..."


Well there is one thing in all that weird drivel that pertains indirectly to astronomy. "Fiat money." Yes, the Italian auto/aerospace giant did I believe invest in some satellite components. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

lpetrich
2002-Mar-12, 08:20 AM
Gerardus Bouw's statements remind me of what clergyman Thomas Prince considered the cause of a big earthquake in Boston in 1755. He blamed it on those "iron points invented by the sagacious Mr. Franklin'' -- lightning rods -- and continued, "in Boston are more erected than anywhere else in New England, and Boston seems to be more dreadfully shaken. Oh! there is no getting out of the mighty hand of God!"

In effect, he was claiming that since God was now having a hard time punishing people for their sins by striking them with lighting, God decided to send some different punishment.

But God apparently decided not to follow up, since earthquakes have continued to be rare in Boston. Earthquakes in the interiors of continental plates may be big, but they are rare, which may be why they are poorly understood.

Source: Andrew Dickson White, "The Warfare of Science with Theology in Christendom", online in the Historical section of the Library at http://www.infidels.org

GrapesOfWrath
2002-Mar-12, 08:47 AM
On 2002-03-12 03:20, lpetrich wrote:
But God apparently decided not to follow up, since earthquakes have continued to be rare in Boston.
I dunno, they do have the Red Sox.

lpetrich
2002-Mar-12, 08:56 AM
On 2002-03-12 03:47, GrapesOfWrath wrote:
I dunno, they do have the Red Sox.


I don't follow professional baseball, so I cannot tell whether that comment means that Boston is unusually favored or unusually jinxed.

Dunash
2002-Mar-12, 09:57 AM
Who says Bouw has been "debunked"? Even Bad Astronomer agrees with Hoyle that "the Geocentric paradigm is at least as good as anybody else's, but not better!". Bouw now agrees that scientifically at the moment there is no way of telling exactly what goes round what, in line with GR & Mach's Principle, until the time when someone reports back to us from outside the universe the true state of affairs. What Bouw does hold is that theologically that report has already taken place in the Scriptures! Of course STR being disproven or MM fringes showing up on the Moon might tip the scales in favour of Geocentricity.

lpetrich
2002-Mar-12, 10:35 AM
I don't think I'd want to bet on SR being falsified in the zero-curvature limit. It's passed some extremely sensitive tests; my favorite is an indirect one: the calculated anomalous magnetic moment of the electron.

From the Dirac field theory, one predicts a simple value, but the real value is somewhat greater than that. How much greater can be predicted with the help of some Quantum Field Theories -- Quantum Electrodynamics and its relatives. And such QFT's assume the correctness of special relativity, the success of predicting this excess magnetic moment is an indirect test of special relativity.

And as to defending geocentrism by using geocentric coordinates, that seems to me like defending flat-earthism by constructing some coordinate system in which the Earth is flat. Yes, one can do that.

But if one can express the approximate sphericity of the Earth in some coordinate-independent fashion, one can also do that with its motion around the Sun.

odysseus0101
2002-Mar-12, 03:00 PM
On 2002-03-12 04:57, Dunash wrote:
Who says Bouw has been "debunked"?


If I may ask this without getting even further off topic than we already are, I would like to know where atheists such as myself fit in this Christian Cosmos. Where does the majority of the world population, consisting on non-Christians, fit in? By 'fit in' I mean such things as: Is there a different standard of physics/cosmology/etc. that is applied to us?

By the way, I'll be in London a bit next month, so might I get an appointment with the Templars to see the Ark of the Covenant?

Wiley
2002-Mar-12, 04:06 PM
On 2002-03-12 03:56, lpetrich wrote:

I don't follow professional baseball, so I cannot tell whether that comment means that Boston is unusually favored or unusually jinxed.



The latter.

DJ
2002-Mar-12, 04:17 PM
A while back I posted the question asking if the heliosphere moved into an area of space that was already occupied by something energetic, would the heliosphere interact, replace, or ignore the something.

The common consensus was that the heliosphere is big and strong, and would not be impacted. It would push them out.

Perhaps, however, some of the things that the good Doctor reports on could be this type of effect. After all, if the forward edge of the heliosphere has increased from 10AU to 100AU of bowshock interaction (glowing), then it is conceivable that we are pushing into something new.

Perhaps something that demonstrates another of the Doctor's point is with all the new focus and attention on terrorism, wavelengths in the middle east are certainly different than they were.

Now, does this subsequently translate into a new atmosphere on the moon? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm...

Chip
2002-Mar-12, 05:31 PM
On 2002-03-12 11:17, DJ wrote:
"....with all the new focus and attention on terrorism, wavelengths in the middle east are certainly different than they were.

Now, does this subsequently translate into a new atmosphere on the moon? Hmmmmmmmmmmmm..."



no. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Donnie B.
2002-Mar-12, 07:49 PM
On 2002-03-12 03:56, lpetrich wrote:


On 2002-03-12 03:47, GrapesOfWrath wrote:
I dunno, they do have the Red Sox.


I don't follow professional baseball, so I cannot tell whether that comment means that Boston is unusually favored or unusually jinxed.


Let me put it this way... the Sox won the World Series as recently as 1918.
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

odysseus0101
2002-Mar-12, 11:59 PM
Let me put it this way... the Sox won the World Series as recently as 1918.
/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif


I'm sure that at least a couple people on this thread would agree that since 1+9=10 and 1+8=9, and 10+9=19, and 1+9=10, and 1+0=1, that the Sox are #1! Whoo-hoo!

James
2002-Mar-13, 12:14 AM
On 2002-03-12 10:00, odysseus0101 wrote:


On 2002-03-12 04:57, Dunash wrote:
Who says Bouw has been "debunked"?


If I may ask this without getting even further off topic than we already are, I would like to know where atheists such as myself fit in this Christian Cosmos. Where does the majority of the world population, consisting on non-Christians, fit in? By 'fit in' I mean such things as: Is there a different standard of physics/cosmology/etc. that is applied to us?

We all go to hell.


By the way, I'll be in London a bit next month, so might I get an appointment with the Templars to see the Ark of the Covenant?


Be sure to get a couple of pictures for me!

BTW, could you send me your e-mail address, please?

DStahl
2002-Mar-13, 06:15 AM
On the subject of Bouw, I believe he states on his website that he believes that science can never correct the Bible. (It's been a while since I visited his 'personal info' page, so I may be misremembering or he may have changed it.) I don't think science can do anything that would convince Mr. Bouw.

Kaptain K
2002-Mar-13, 10:23 AM
By the way, I'll be in London a bit next month, so might I get an appointment with the Templars to see the Ark of the Covenant?
HUH! I thought the Ark of the Covenant was (is) being guarded in a church in Ethiopia. Unfortunately, you have to take their word for it, since only the priest of the church is "holy" enough to look at it and live. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif

WHarris
2002-Mar-13, 11:00 AM
Actually, it's stored somewhere in an Army warehouse. /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif

ChallegedChimp
2002-Mar-13, 11:40 AM
Yep, Indy snagged from the Nazi's.
And if wickedness cause these flucuations in the world...ermm.... then the world is living in one of the best times ever. No major wars (if anything as nasty as war can ever be catergorized into major or minor) going on (yeah I know we got our war on terrorism, but we aren't mass fire bombing cities or nuking them to break morale and production).
Europe hasn't had a scrap for 50 years, for all the talk of weapons of mass destruction, none of them are being used. Sure , we're poluuting the environment and the rich and taking advantage of the poor, but that has always happened, so status quo there. Perhaps simply becuase more humans exist on the planet than ever before that all the little evils cumaltively equal more than the major evils of the past when there were less people.

Cripes, 2 things: One: God controls the universe, but is sitting back and letting us exercise free will in being good or evil.
Two: He gave us plenty of interesting stuff to figure out once we get past this need of killing each other over stupid reasons. (sure, may not seem stupid to the guy believing in it on the other side, but when you are forced to take a human life in anything else but self defense, then whatever reason it is, it is stupid).
Big big universe out there, of which this little mudball is but a mote in God's eye. And yah know? It is full of stars. Thank God he built into us that ability to look up.

(sorry for another dumb monkey weigh in)

(oh yeah, mirror's to Mars...only ever heard about that in terraforming, but them there mirrors were a whole heap bigger)
(and GOW.... The Sox suffer from the Bambino Curse..prove that one /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif )



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ChallegedChimp on 2002-03-13 06:43 ]</font>

Gsquare
2002-Mar-15, 02:08 AM
Thanks Chimp. You don't sound so challenged to me.

Looking up and surveying the wonderous granduer of the majesty of God's intricate and awesome creation I am humbled to the point of considering myself but a speck of dust. But then I turn on my computer and read comments by my contemporaries and instantly my sense of superiority returns./phpBB/images/smiles/icon_biggrin.gif
G^2

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Gsquare on 2002-03-14 21:11 ]</font>

David Simmons
2002-Mar-18, 05:27 PM
During the last 150 years, lies & those who believe them have abounded exponentially in the world eg volution,uniformitarianism,that sodomy is not a sin, that adultery is acceptable, communism, socialism, the creation of fiat money etc etc. All these increase entropy on the earth, affect the gravitaional field, wave heights, frequency & violence of earthquakes & by extension into the solar system & beyond ie that sin is punished or opposed has been built as a cause & effect into the universe.


Everything that is done increases entropy.

And besides, didn't God promise, "... I will not again curse the ground for man's sake ... neither will I again smite any more every living thing as I have done.(Gen. 8:21)"

David Simmons
2002-Mar-18, 05:28 PM
During the last 150 years, lies & those who believe them have abounded exponentially in the world eg volution,uniformitarianism,that sodomy is not a sin, that adultery is acceptable, communism, socialism, the creation of fiat money etc etc. All these increase entropy on the earth, affect the gravitaional field, wave heights, frequency & violence of earthquakes & by extension into the solar system & beyond ie that sin is punished or opposed has been built as a cause & effect into the universe.


Everything that is done increases entropy.

And besides, didn't God promise, "... I will not again curse the ground for man's sake ... neither will I again smite any more every living thing as I have done.(Gen. 8:21)"