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tmosher
2003-Aug-28, 11:02 PM
I deleted everything...I just didn't feel right wasting space on Phil's system.

It was all drivel anyway, so who's going to care?

Tom

latimer
2003-Aug-29, 08:38 PM
Hello,

Well, I had to do it. I finally posted over on the GLP forum; however, I think everyone who reads my post will agree that I was very polite. Since it seems to be the only place where Nancy consistantly makes appearences, and given that she is fielding 'what if' questions, I presumed to ask a few.

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?message=143840&mpage=1&topic=3&showwee k=8/25/2003

On the *fifth* page of the thread. Although Nancy has made a number of appearences throughout. I appear as an 'Anonymous Coward' but I signed my work.

It is most unfortunate that you can't edit posts there once posted; for my lack of typing skills is apparent in a few places. A pity.

I will be quite curious to see if Nancy actually answers my questions. I have my doubts, but I irrationally hold onto a bit of hope that she might. :)

Keep smiling,

Jonathan
-It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove.-

Marilla
2003-Aug-29, 10:22 PM
a Valiant effort, but I'm sure you know you shouldn't be holding your breath. At best, reasonable questions get ignored.. at worst, they get twisted and turned into a way to make more outrageous claims.

Maybe, though, your reasoning will flip a switch in someone willing to listen to it, and in so doing, will do some good!

Gmann
2003-Aug-30, 12:50 PM
I find the part about killing your pets quite disturbing. I hope no one actually follows through, but if they do, and attract the attention of police, they could be facing fines/imprisionment. I wonder if she could be charged as an accessory if enough "believers" actually killed their pets acting on her advice. This is one area where what she is doing goes beyond making a fool of herself, and could do real damage.

tmosher
2003-Aug-30, 04:46 PM
Based on a few emails I sent to Nancy and the responses I received, getting Nancy to answer any questions concerning herself is a wasted effort.

latimer
2003-Aug-30, 06:13 PM
Hello --

Well, Nancy made an appearence and declined my question. Saying in part:



ME:> It is January, 2004. The Earth continues pretty much
> as it does now, for no Planet X has truly shown up,
> What if you are wrong? What if the Zetas are wrong?

NL:This is not What IF it were true discussion. So, declined. This is the same old Ain’t SO discussion which has dominated any live radio for the past year. You will get Ain’t SO right up to the shift, even when rotation stops for a week, such is denial.

Sigh, I even phrased it the right way, Mr. Trebeck!

Ah well. Later in the same thread, a person had posted about the sudden stoppage. I had addressed his question, but Nancy ignored my response altogether...

Burning Arc asked:

you know u say rotation will come to a stop once planetx is at the halfway between earth and the sun right? now if the earth were to come to a complete rotation stopage. wouldnt it be alot like in a car, when your traveling around 100 milies an hour and suddently put on the breaks. you fly forward in your seat right? Now the Earth is rotating around 1100 miles an hour. and planet x is the breaks. Wouldnt everything on earth get thrown forward really far and die or severly hurt on impact?

I responded:

Actually, it is even worse than that. Inertia is the factor here; and that not only relies on how fast you are going.

Taking your example, if you are in a car going 100 miles per hour and slam on the brakes, you will get flung forward. The force involved relies on your speed AND your mass.

Now, expanding on that example, try having a TRAIN going 100 miles per hour slamming on its brakes. The train will slide for a MILE trying to stop, and everyone will be thrown forward with much greater force; because there was so much more mass involved.

Now, apply that to rotation stoppage; not only is the Earth spinning at roughly 1000 miles an hour at the equator; but *the mass involved is that of the whole planet.* It is *billions* of tons. The force involved in stopping the rotation of the planet is *staggering* even to simply overcome Earth´s inertia. And, because you are not directly connected with the planet, all that force translates directly to you. There ain´t a seatbelt around that´ll help.

One person even tried to calculate it; and although I think his numbers may be off, in the first *second* of such a slowdown (assuming regular rotation to stop takes about a week) you´d be thrown about 450 *meters.* That´s about 4 football fields. Sure hope you didn´t go through any objects when that happened...

And, even if you are in the safe location ditch, that means you hit the SIDE of the ditch with the same force as if you fell off a five story building. Ouch.

We´re also not even dealing with the amount of energy released in such a transaction either. Suffice it to say, we´d be frying eggs on the *ground...*

Just some further thoughts that continue to make the Zeta talk predictions even *less* likely, if such a thing is possible...

(By the way; corrections on what I wrote above *greatly* appreciated, if anyone can see if I went wrong, or has more accurate math. :) )

Then a bit later, Nancy quipped:

> u say rotation will come to a stop once planetx is at the halfway
> between earth and the sun right? now if the earth were to come
> to a complete rotation stopage. wouldnt it be alot like in a car,
> when your traveling around 100 milies an hour and suddently
> put on the breaks. you fly forward in your seat right?

You’re talking about a sudden stop, this is a 36 hour slowdown, my understanding.

Argh! So we don't even understand *inertia?!?!?* I would LOVE to see the math for something with the mass and intertia of the Earth slowing down to a stop or near stop in only 36 hours.... any of our resident physics guys up to it? :)

http://www.godlikeproductions.com/bbs/message.php?page=6&topic=3&message=143840&mpage=1& showweek=8/25/2003 for the whole thread.

Thanks for listening.

Jonathan
-It doesn't matter what I believe. What matters is what I can prove.-

Marilla
2003-Aug-31, 05:51 AM
...lots and lots of neat stuff...
One minor thing that I think *maybe* you aren't right about.. otherwise, I applaud your effort.. and aside from this one thing that I think, you certainly are a lot better at this stuff than THEY are! hehe

What I am thinking here is when you suggest that the force on a person inside a stopping train is greater than that of a person in a stopping car, and people on a 'stopping' planet would experience an even greater effect...

I don't think that's actually correct... in fact, in a car stopping as fast as it could from 100 MPH, I think your body would feel more effect than in a train stopping from 100MPH as fast as it could... reason being: the car is stopping much more quickly.

Since when travelling at a constant speed, you are effectively not moving at all in relation to the car or train, when it begins to slow down, the amount of effect you feel is based on the rate of accelleration/decelleration (sp?!?!) of the object you are in.

So, when that train takes off creeping slowly up to that 100MPH, you don't feel much at all.. but when the car zips up to 100 MPH in 20 seconds, you certainly feel a lot from it.

However.. you are ABSOLUTELY right that the amount of energy necessary to slow or stop the earth's rotation would be absolutely staggering for us to imagine, and it WOULD have some pretty undeniable effects. Where you will fail getting through to these people, though, is what "undeniable effects" really means.

tmosher
2003-Aug-31, 06:34 PM
Well...there is one way to get Nancy to acknowledge a question. Post it on GLP.

> IF 90% of the population was killed, there would be roughly 5.68
> billion rotting corpses. Do you think the survivors would be able
> to cope with all the disease that would be the result of that much
> rotting flesh?

"Good issue not addressed before! Accepted Q for Sep 2 live radio "

Gmann
2003-Aug-31, 10:19 PM
I would like to see how they explain (in a way that makes sense) Planet X passing being able to stop the earth from spinning. Our own gravity wont stop a marble from spinning on a hard table. The Earth is just a little bigger and slightly more massive than a marble.

freddo
2003-Sep-01, 12:49 AM
Argh! So we don't even understand *inertia?!?!?* I would LOVE to see the math for something with the mass and intertia of the Earth slowing down to a stop or near stop in only 36 hours.... any of our resident physics guys up to it?


Sheesh - put the calculator down... I guarantee you we would see Earth as a molten protoplanet once more.
Well we wouldn't see it... There's not an organism on Earth that could survive such an event.

Starduster
2003-Sep-01, 01:05 AM
There's not an organism on Earth that could survive such an event.

I don't follow the PX stuff too much so I may be wrong but I thought this was all supposed to have happened before? Like 3000 years ago or something. How did life survive then? Wasn't there something in the Bible that PXers refer to about the sun standing still for 3 days or something?

Just wondering, I never heard anything about releasing energy and melting everything on earth before. You don't think there has ever been a PX passage in the past with a pole flip?

beskeptical
2003-Sep-01, 02:49 AM
Our own gravity wont stop a marble from spinning on a hard table. ....

Does it stop completely by friction? Just curious.

Eta C
2003-Sep-01, 03:56 AM
Well, yes. But friction is a complicated effect. The frictional force depends on the mass of the object, the local force of gravity, and the relative properties of the surfaces of the two objects sliding past each other. If you look in an elementary physics text all of this gets boiled down to a "coefficient of friction" where the frictional force on an object is f = mu * m* g where mu is the coefficient and g is the local acceleration of gravity. So as the force of gravity goes up (as, say, on Jupiter) the frictional force goes up as well. This doesn't get into the difference between sliding friction and static friction. That's a subject for another lecture. 8)

WolfKC
2003-Sep-01, 04:35 AM
To help illustrate this, here's an chart showing my personal friction levels at variations of mass and non-movement. 8-[
http://www.chipman.org/starhoax/friction.gif

beskeptical
2003-Sep-01, 04:58 AM
Thanks, it makes sense now.

Sigma_Orionis
2003-Sep-03, 01:18 AM
...lots and lots of neat stuff...
One minor thing that I think *maybe* you aren't right about.. otherwise, I applaud your effort.. and aside from this one thing that I think, you certainly are a lot better at this stuff than THEY are! hehe

What I am thinking here is when you suggest that the force on a person inside a stopping train is greater than that of a person in a stopping car, and people on a 'stopping' planet would experience an even greater effect...

I don't think that's actually correct... in fact, in a car stopping as fast as it could from 100 MPH, I think your body would feel more effect than in a train stopping from 100MPH as fast as it could... reason being: the car is stopping much more quickly.

Since when travelling at a constant speed, you are effectively not moving at all in relation to the car or train, when it begins to slow down, the amount of effect you feel is based on the rate of accelleration/decelleration (sp?!?!) of the object you are in.

So, when that train takes off creeping slowly up to that 100MPH, you don't feel much at all.. but when the car zips up to 100 MPH in 20 seconds, you certainly feel a lot from it.

However.. you are ABSOLUTELY right that the amount of energy necessary to slow or stop the earth's rotation would be absolutely staggering for us to imagine, and it WOULD have some pretty undeniable effects. Where you will fail getting through to these people, though, is what "undeniable effects" really means.

According to Nancy, the earth would take 36 hours to stop its rotation and then reverse it, now what I am going to use is High School physics, I did get a BSc in physics, but it was a basic degree and it was almost 20 years ago so please anyone with more training and / or experience than me correct me wherever I make a mistake, likewise, sorry if this has been posted before (I don't recall if this has been discussed):


The first thing to do is to figure out the velocity of the rotation of the earth:
here (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970401c.html) is a neat link explaining how to figure that out (of course it's a NASA website so it's evil disinfo, and for Kids nonetheless! :lol: ), which is about 1000 miles per hour and that is (roughly) about 1600 km/hr (In my country we use metric so I will stick to that) or aproximately 444.44 m/s (meters per second) just so it can be used as a reference: the speed of sound is close to 1000 Km/hr or 342 m/s

The second thing to do is to find out the mass of the earth
here (http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/SamanthaDong2.shtml) is another link explaining how to determine that, it turns out to be 5.98 x 10^24 kilograms

Now lets asume we have an object that weighs 5.98 x 10 ^24 kg and is moving at 444.44 m/s we want to know:

how much force must be applied to to in order to stop

Now we need to calculate the momentum of the earth, in high school physics that is given by the formula:

Momentum = Mass x Velocity

so that would be 5.98 x 10 ^24 kg x 444.44 km/hr and the result would be: 2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 kg.km/hr, in order to stop the earth a momentum of this magnitude must be applied in the opposite direction of the movement of the earth

Now to calculate the necesary force to produce that momentum we use the formula:

Change in Momentum (or impulse, like I said I am using high school physics) = force x time, therefore force = Change in Momentum / Time

The change in momentum is: Final Momentum - Initial Momentum and that would be: 0 - 2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 or -2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 kg.m/s and time is 36 hours which are 129600 seconds so:

Force = -2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 / 129600 = -2.0302x 10 ^21 Newtons

Again, as a reference, the 5 engines that were the first stage of the Saturn V (the rocket used the get the apollo missions off the ground) all together produced a force of 3.34 x 10 ^7 Newtons and they lasted about 2 1/2 minutes before shutting off ( here (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4205/ch2-6.html)is another evil Nasa disinfo reference about this....) which is about 100 trillion times smaller than the force I have calculated that is needed to stop the earth (and this force has to be in effect for 36 hours!) :D

Again this is a vast simplification of the problem in order to solve it with high school physics, but all in all I think we would "notice" if the earth stopped rotating even if it took 36 hours ......

Earthbound
2003-Sep-03, 02:46 AM
...lots and lots of neat stuff...
One minor thing that I think *maybe* you aren't right about.. otherwise, I applaud your effort.. and aside from this one thing that I think, you certainly are a lot better at this stuff than THEY are! hehe

What I am thinking here is when you suggest that the force on a person inside a stopping train is greater than that of a person in a stopping car, and people on a 'stopping' planet would experience an even greater effect...

I don't think that's actually correct... in fact, in a car stopping as fast as it could from 100 MPH, I think your body would feel more effect than in a train stopping from 100MPH as fast as it could... reason being: the car is stopping much more quickly.

Since when travelling at a constant speed, you are effectively not moving at all in relation to the car or train, when it begins to slow down, the amount of effect you feel is based on the rate of accelleration/decelleration (sp?!?!) of the object you are in.

So, when that train takes off creeping slowly up to that 100MPH, you don't feel much at all.. but when the car zips up to 100 MPH in 20 seconds, you certainly feel a lot from it.

However.. you are ABSOLUTELY right that the amount of energy necessary to slow or stop the earth's rotation would be absolutely staggering for us to imagine, and it WOULD have some pretty undeniable effects. Where you will fail getting through to these people, though, is what "undeniable effects" really means.

According to Nancy, the earth would take 36 hours to stop its rotation and then reverse it, now what I am going to use is High School physics, I did get a BSc in physics, but it was a basic degree and it was almost 20 years ago so please anyone with more training and / or experience than me correct me wherever I make a mistake, likewise, sorry if this has been posted before (I don't recall if this has been discussed):


The first thing to do is to figure out the velocity of the rotation of the earth:
here (http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/ask_astro/answers/970401c.html) is a neat link explaining how to figure that out (of course it's a NASA website so it's evil disinfo, and for Kids nonetheless! :lol: ), which is about 1000 miles per hour and that is (roughly) about 1600 km/hr (In my country we use metric so I will stick to that) or aproximately 444.44 m/s (meters per second) just so it can be used as a reference: the speed of sound is close to 1000 Km/hr or 342 m/s

The second thing to do is to find out the mass of the earth
here (http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2002/SamanthaDong2.shtml) is another link explaining how to determine that, it turns out to be 5.98 x 10^24 kilograms

Now lets asume we have an object that weighs 5.98 x 10 ^24 kg and is moving at 444.44 m/s we want to know:

how much force must be applied to to in order to stop

Now we need to calculate the momentum of the earth, in high school physics that is given by the formula:

Momentum = Mass x Velocity

so that would be 5.98 x 10 ^24 kg x 444.44 km/hr and the result would be: 2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 kg.km/hr, in order to stop the earth a momentum of this magnitude must be applied in the opposite direction of the movement of the earth

Now to calculate the necesary force to produce that momentum we use the formula:

Change in Momentum (or impulse, like I said I am using high school physics) = force x time, therefore force = Change in Momentum / Time

The change in momentum is: Final Momentum - Initial Momentum and that would be: 0 - 2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 or -2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 kg.m/s and time is 36 hours which are 129600 seconds so:

Force = -2.6312 x 10 ^ 26 / 129600 = -2.0302x 10 ^21 Newtons

Again, as a reference, the 5 engines that were the first stage of the Saturn V (the rocket used the get the apollo missions off the ground) all together produced a force of 3.34 x 10 ^7 Newtons and they lasted about 2 1/2 minutes before shutting off ( here (http://www.hq.nasa.gov/office/pao/History/SP-4205/ch2-6.html)is another evil Nasa disinfo reference about this....) which is about 100 trillion times smaller than the force I have calculated that is needed to stop the earth (and this force has to be in effect for 36 hours!) :D

Again this is a vast simplification of the problem in order to solve it with high school physics, but all in all I think we would "notice" if the earth stopped rotating even if it took 36 hours ......

Oh sure use logic why don't you? :wink: Your calculations can't be right because they have zeros in them and we all know the mighty Zeta Heads don't have zero in their numbering system. And don't forget that our knowledge of physics is rather shoddy compared to the all seeing and all knowing Zetas. :D Besides we have rotational speed control stations scattered about the earth to counter such a slow down. :^o

So I guess you've proved yourself to be an evil disinfo agent of the highest caliber. 8)

Sigma_Orionis
2003-Sep-03, 12:23 PM
Oh sure use logic why don't you? :wink: Your calculations can't be right because they have zeros in them and we all know the mighty Zeta Heads don't have zero in their numbering system. And don't forget that our knowledge of physics is rather shoddy compared to the all seeing and all knowing Zetas. :D Besides we have rotational speed control stations scattered about the earth to counter such a slow down. :^o

So I guess you've proved yourself to be an evil disinfo agent of the highest caliber. 8)

All right I confess! I am a disinfo agent :^o , paid by the elite, which are nothing but willing pawns of the Evil Orion Overlords! :lol: I confess because I have not been paid for several months now! :D Those Orion Reptiles are a bunch of misers! I say we go form picket lines at FEMA and the NSA! \:D/

WolfKC
2003-Sep-03, 01:22 PM
Oh sure use logic why don't you? :wink: Your calculations can't be right because they have zeros in them and we all know the mighty Zeta Heads don't have zero in their numbering system. And don't forget that our knowledge of physics is rather shoddy compared to the all seeing and all knowing Zetas. :D Besides we have rotational speed control stations scattered about the earth to counter such a slow down. :^o

So I guess you've proved yourself to be an evil disinfo agent of the highest caliber. 8)

All right I confess! I am a disinfo agent :^o , paid by the elite, which are nothing but willing pawns of the Evil Orion Overlords! :lol: I confess because I have not been paid for several months now! :D Those Orion Reptiles are a bunch of misers! I say we go form picket lines at FEMA and the NSA! \:D/
Be careful, I think the Evil Orion Overlords eat their dissenters. I learned that from a documentory on TV called "outer limits". :lol:

Sigma_Orionis
2003-Sep-03, 01:48 PM
Be careful, I think the Evil Orion Overlords eat their dissenters. I learned that from a documentory on TV called "outer limits". :lol:

Geez and all this time I thought that documentary was "Howard the Duck"! :lol:

CincySpaceGeek
2003-Sep-04, 05:28 PM
I responded:

Now, expanding on that example, try having a TRAIN going 100 miles per hour slamming on its brakes. The train will slide for a MILE trying to stop, and everyone will be thrown forward with much greater force; because there was so much more mass involved.



I agree with the numbers except this one...and maybe I'm picking nits. Someone check me on this.

Once up to speed both you and the train are going at the same velocity regardless of your individual masses. But since the train doesn't exactly stop on a dime, you'd still be thrown forward but you'd hit the bulkhead with LESS force 'cause both you and the train are decelerating over a longer distance. Think "egg toss".

The car on the other hand stops relatively quickly which is what causes those nasty deceleration headwounds when you smack the dashboard. OUCH!!

CincySpaceGeek
2003-Sep-04, 05:49 PM
...lots and lots of neat stuff...
One minor thing that I think *maybe* you aren't right about.. otherwise, I applaud your effort.. and aside from this one thing that I think, you certainly are a lot better at this stuff than THEY are! hehe

What I am thinking here is when you suggest that the force on a person inside a stopping train is greater than that of a person in a stopping car, and people on a 'stopping' planet would experience an even greater effect...

I don't think that's actually correct... in fact, in a car stopping as fast as it could from 100 MPH, I think your body would feel more effect than in a train stopping from 100MPH as fast as it could... reason being: the car is stopping much more quickly.

Since when travelling at a constant speed, you are effectively not moving at all in relation to the car or train, when it begins to slow down, the amount of effect you feel is based on the rate of accelleration/decelleration (sp?!?!) of the object you are in.

So, when that train takes off creeping slowly up to that 100MPH, you don't feel much at all.. but when the car zips up to 100 MPH in 20 seconds, you certainly feel a lot from it.

However.. you are ABSOLUTELY right that the amount of energy necessary to slow or stop the earth's rotation would be absolutely staggering for us to imagine, and it WOULD have some pretty undeniable effects. Where you will fail getting through to these people, though, is what "undeniable effects" really means.

OK...so maybe next time I should read further down in the thread before posting my 2 cents worth. Sorry for doubling up! :oops:

badmomma
2003-Sep-20, 04:16 PM
Even though I've never studied physics, I was sure something like you have confirmed happening to the earth if it stops, would happen. I feel redeemed with my arguments to my family members who have amassed "stuff" to see them through "the event?!???". Thank you! thank you! Of course, this is only for my piece of mind, for they will NEVER believe me. :cry: