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banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-11, 01:57 PM
BSG: Who is the final Cylon?

Adama
Roslin
Starbuck
Baltar
Other

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-11, 02:00 PM
I said Baltar....it's too obvious

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-11, 02:00 PM
then again so is Starbuck

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-11, 02:02 PM
my reason for saying Baltar has to do with the intial nuke attack and how he "survived" by literally hiding behind the skirt of a number 6.....

Certassar
2008-Apr-11, 02:15 PM
I said "Other". Starbuck? Too obvious - she has to be something else. Baltar? No way. Adama? I hope not. Laura "Airlock" Roslin? Could be fun, but no.

There's a whole season left, and I want to be surprised. There's even time to introduce a completely new character or reintroduce a forgotten character. What if it's Boxey? What if it's someone not even on BSG or in the fleet?

Still, my bet is on Tom Zarek (who I still believe will reveal himself as the true Apollo, very soon).

;-)

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-11, 02:27 PM
What if it's Boxey?

ewwwww

Jason
2008-Apr-11, 03:18 PM
You didn't put "Lee" as a possiblility.
For dramatic reason, I think it has to be one of the main five characters - Adama, Lee, Starbuck, Roslin, and Baltar.
The two strongest possibilities, I think, are Roslin and Lee.
According to Razor Adama saw where the first hybrid was created, apparently moments after its creation. That is a good sign to me that he is not a Cylon. Also Adama's father was apparently a real person, as Romo Lampkin knew him.
Starbuck is too obvious. I believe her death and rebirth has a different explanation than "she's a cylon".
Baltar was almost convinced that he was a Cylon last season, but then decided he wasn't after all. Making him the final Cylon now would be too much deja vu, and Baltar works better as a human.
Lee might be a cylon, though you would think that Adama would then have to be in on it. The other problem with Lee being a Cylon is that it then makes the father-son relationship between he and Adama basically a lie, and I don't think the producers are going to do that.
That leaves Roslin as the best candidate. With her we have the irony that the leader of humanity turns out to not be human at all.

Jason
2008-Apr-11, 03:18 PM
What if it's Boxey?

ewwwww

You know, they do say that D'Anna's model was "Boxed". Maybe Boxey is the avatar of death for the Cylons.
:)

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-11, 04:02 PM
You didn't put "Lee" as a possiblility.
For dramatic reason, I think it has to be one of the main five characters - Adama, Lee, Starbuck, Roslin, and Baltar.
The two strongest possibilities, I think, are Roslin and Lee.
According to Razor Adama saw where the first hybrid was created, apparently moments after its creation. That is a good sign to me that he is not a Cylon. Also Adama's father was apparently a real person, as Romo Lampkin knew him.
Starbuck is too obvious. I believe her death and rebirth has a different explanation than "she's a cylon".
Baltar was almost convinced that he was a Cylon last season, but then decided he wasn't after all. Making him the final Cylon now would be too much deja vu, and Baltar works better as a human.
Lee might be a cylon, though you would think that Adama would then have to be in on it. The other problem with Lee being a Cylon is that it then makes the father-son relationship between he and Adama basically a lie, and I don't think the producers are going to do that.
That leaves Roslin as the best candidate. With her we have the irony that the leader of humanity turns out to not be human at all.

Jason go back and rewatch Razor and tell me if the woman that we get a brief glimpse of her eyes- the one locked in the room on the Hybrid planet- tell me if that isn't somehow Starbuck

The Supreme Canuck
2008-Apr-11, 04:12 PM
It isn't Starbuck - there was an interview in Maclean's a while back. That is apparently the only thing they knew going into the first season.

I said Adama. Why? That one Cylon told Roslin that it was - it was his "secret" for her. Which Adama, though?

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-11, 04:17 PM
It isn't Starbuck....but maybe Starbuck is a clone....afteralll she blewed up real gud

Certassar
2008-Apr-11, 04:23 PM
Lee might be a cylon, though you would think that Adama would then have to be in on it.

Not necessarily. In the very first episode Lee returned after having not seen his father in what? 4 years? Much could have happened in that time.


I said Adama. Why? That one Cylon told Roslin that it was - it was his "secret" for her. Which Adama, though?

Good point. However, Leoben is a well-known liar.

Jason
2008-Apr-11, 04:25 PM
It isn't Starbuck - there was an interview in Maclean's a while back. That is apparently the only thing they knew going into the first season.

I said Adama. Why? That one Cylon told Roslin that it was - it was his "secret" for her. Which Adama, though?
I don't think the woman in the room was Starbuck either. There is a resemblance, but it's not her.

Leoban likes to lie in order to manipulate. He told Starbuck that Kasey was her child and that wasn't true. That means his "secret" for Roslin is also suspect. Plus none of the seven Cylons seem to know who the final five are, so Leoban couldn't reveal it to Roslin if he didn't know who they are himself.

Jason
2008-Apr-11, 04:28 PM
Not necessarily. In the very first episode Lee returned after having not seen his father in what? 4 years? Much could have happened in that time.That would assume that the five are either duplicates of real people or humans somehow modified into Cylons.
If that can be done, why didn't the Cylons duplicate or "take over" someone like Roslin or Adama before now to sow confusion in the fleet?

galacsi
2008-Apr-11, 08:22 PM
It is Gaita or the good Doctor Cottle

Jason
2008-Apr-11, 08:40 PM
Both Gaeta and Dr. Cottle are relatively minor characters. If we get to the big reveal and it's one of them I'll be disappointed.

Disinfo Agent
2008-Apr-11, 10:23 PM
I think the final Cylon is Ron Moore.

Solfe
2008-Apr-12, 01:08 PM
My guess is Dualla. She would round out the others.

Cally - Tyrol
Helo - Sharron*
Adama - Tigh
Roslin - Tory
Starbuck - Anders
Roslin/Baltar - Six*

*bluring the lines, these are "unknown" cylons at the beginning.

Adm. Adama and Roslin trust each of these characters in very intimate ways. Tory is the president's aid, Tigh is Adama's second in command. Adama advises Tyrol (and issues a beating :) too.) Everyone has to trust Sharron. Adama and Roslin shows Anders a bit of trust and respect to send a rescue mission and then make him a nugget afterwards.

Both Adama's trust Dualla. It would round out all of the characters, plus she has been key since the first show.

I do have a second theory, but is much more of a gimick. Could the present the last cylon (and the last show) where YOU the watcher are the last Cylon? That is much harder sell, and would have to be the last show because it is unsustainable.

Solfe

Jason
2008-Apr-12, 04:01 PM
Dee is also too minor a character, IMO, to be the final Cylon.

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-12, 04:52 PM
I've been thinking about this a lot and have decided that it's going to be Lee Adama.

In the first episode of season 4 Lee asked his father what he would have done if it had been his brother (who was killed before the start of the series) who had returned in that Viper instead of Starbuck. Would he care if he was a Cylon or would he be happy to see him anyway?

So I think that was setting things up for Adama to have to chose to hate Apollo for being a Cylon, or love him anyways because he is still his son. Maybe Lee has an subconscious suspicion that he is a Cylon and was trying to get a sense of how his father would react.

Also, the fact that Lee defended Baltar at the trial (and has displayed such high standards of ethics throughout the series) would be an interesting twist. It would make the humans realize that Cylons are not just "toasters", that they can be more "human" than the humans.

So my vote is for Apollo, but that could easily change. ;)

Jim
2008-Apr-12, 06:04 PM
Ellen Tigh.

Launch window
2008-Apr-12, 06:22 PM
Back in season 2 I was pretty sure it was going to be Billy.

(the actor hinted at it and the character he played tried to murder President Roslin)

But the actor playing him asked for a higher acting fee, so the writers quickly found a way to kill him off.

Delvo
2008-Apr-13, 01:50 AM
Tried to murder Roslin? When was that and what was the story?

The character was killed because he'd gotten another gig and couldn't do both.

Jason
2008-Apr-13, 04:53 AM
I still say it's going to be one of the big five - Adama, Lee, Roslin, Starbuck, or Baltar. And my money is on Roslin, with a side bet on Lee.

The Supreme Canuck
2008-Apr-13, 06:06 AM
It can't be Roslin. Her cancer was cured by Cylon blood, right? If she already had that blood...

Delvo
2008-Apr-13, 11:15 AM
It probably has to be someone "important", but not necessarily a main character. The defendant Apollo was working with and the priestess we've seen a few times fit the bill better than Dualla, for example, because even though they've had less screen time than her, they've mattered more and done stuff that was actually related to the plot. But the best candidate who's not a main character would probably be President Adar.

Launch window
2008-Apr-13, 04:33 PM
Tried to murder Roslin? When was that and what was the story?



I bought the DVD, the story starts off with President Roslin in the jailhouse for provoking an uprising in Bill Adama's absence and trying to find some mythical tomb. Young Billy then enters the picture and goes nuts trying to attack Roslin but the whole thing turns out to be an extract induced vision. After the Billy actor and BSG went their separate ways it was decided to cut the scene out but it can be viewed in the DVD-Extras. Billy leaving also caused other issues because now Dee had nobody to get hitched with, so they writers tried to remedy this with some strange Starbuck, Anders, Dee love triangles.

Jason
2008-Apr-13, 09:00 PM
It can't be Roslin. Her cancer was cured by Cylon blood, right? If she already had that blood...Her cancer was cured by the blood of a human/cylon fusion, not just plain Cylon blood.

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-13, 09:41 PM
Billy leaving also caused other issues because now Dee had nobody to get hitched with, so they writers tried to remedy this with some strange Starbuck, Anders, Dee love triangles.

Assuming for a minute that Billy was intended to be a Cylon (which is supported by the fact that the person who replaced him as Rosalyn's advisor is a Cylon), doesn't it make sense that the person chosen to replace him as Dee's love interest also replaced him as one of the Cylons? It would fill the hole in the story that Billy's departure would have left behind.

Originally:

President Rosalyn's advisor = Billy (Cylon?)
Dee's love interest = Billy (Cylon?)

After rewriting to account for Billy's departure:

President Rosalyn's advisor = Tori (Cylon)
Dee's love interest = Apollo (Cylon?)

Delvo
2008-Apr-14, 12:03 AM
That's only if you figure that the story significance of being "a Cylon" is the same as that of being "the last missing kind of Cylon".

And there's no purpose at all that the stupid "love quadrangle" ever really served, and D started going after Apollo long before Billy died, and nothing's been done with that lately anyway.

Abbadon_2008
2008-Apr-14, 12:26 AM
my reason for saying Baltar has to do with the initial nuke attack and how he "survived" by literally hiding behind the skirt of a number 6.....

That's something that nagged at me since the mini-series. Since when does a skinny fashion model offer effective shielding against a nuclear blast? Certainly, he must've perished, and then 'downloaded' to new body. But he just doesn't remember it. Yet.

Also, Baltar can 'project' a false reality just as the Cylons can.

The Supreme Canuck
2008-Apr-14, 03:14 AM
Her cancer was cured by the blood of a human/cylon fusion, not just plain Cylon blood.

Bah. If she were a Cylon, would she get cancer at all, though?

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 05:24 AM
That's something that nagged at me since the mini-series. Since when does a skinny fashion model offer effective shielding against a nuclear blast? Certainly, he must've perished, and then 'downloaded' to new body. But he just doesn't remember it. Yet.
That is a strange bit, but it was probably just a shockwave by the time it reached Baltar's house, in which case all she had to do was protect him from flying debris.
Caprica Six and the other Cylons know that this happened and yet still believe Baltar is human, so it must have been at least possible for him to survive.
Also, I still think the final five are all unique, with only one body each. That would make it impossible for Baltar to have downloaded into a spare body.


Also, Baltar can 'project' a false reality just as the Cylons can.Starbuck and Roslin has also found themselves in a false reality talking to people who aren't really there. They can't all be the final five, so there must be some other explanation for how a human can do it.

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 05:26 AM
Bah. If she were a Cylon, would she get cancer at all, though?Why not? We've seen that Cylons are subject to human disease, in fact they may be even more vulnerable, since they only have seven different sets of genes.

The Supreme Canuck
2008-Apr-14, 06:40 AM
Wait, when are they prone to human disease? I don't remember that.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-14, 10:48 AM
Did the Chief and Cally have a baby together???? Think so....so that would be yet another human/Cylon hybrid walking around.

jrkeller
2008-Apr-14, 11:16 AM
Did the Chief and Cally have a baby together???? Think so....so that would be yet another human/Cylon hybrid walking around.


I've been wondering about that too. I hope they writers explain that too.

I thinking Baltar and the Final One, especially with his turn to monotheism.

Tobin Dax
2008-Apr-14, 02:15 PM
Did the Chief and Cally have a baby together???? Think so....so that would be yet another human/Cylon hybrid walking around.
I looks like the next episode is going to address this. :)

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 02:57 PM
Wait, when are they prone to human disease? I don't remember that.
In the early third season episodes "Torn" and "A Measure of Salvation" an entire base star is wiped out, and the entire Cylon species is threatened by a virus that Cottle says is identical to one that struck the Colonies about 3,000 years ago (which modern humans have an immunity to). Athena is also immune because carrying Hera strengthened her immune system and gave her the neccessary antibodies to combat the disease.

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 03:00 PM
Yes, there are currently two cylon/human fusions - Hera is the first and Nicholas is the second, though no one but the four know that at this point.

Hokie
2008-Apr-14, 04:09 PM
I have not read it the interview but apparently Ron Moore has said that the final Cylon is not a major character

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 04:26 PM
I have not read it the interview but apparently Ron Moore has said that the final Cylon is not a major character
I think Ronald Moore has a vested interest in preserving the secret of who the final Cylon is and is not above providing a little mis-direction. On the DVD commentary for the Third Season, for instance, he has said they will be using false script pages to help preserve some secrets.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-14, 04:44 PM
Yes, there are currently two cylon/human fusions - Hera is the first and Nicholas is the second, though no one but the four know that at this point.

Adam and Eve....;-)

Tobin Dax
2008-Apr-14, 06:03 PM
Adam and Eve....;-)
That's my favorit pet theory at the moment. Though I give it as much credence at Baltar being the Fifth (which is none).

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-14, 06:23 PM
If the final Cylon is not one of the main human characters then my guess is that it will be Dee. One of the goals of the Cylons seems to be to create human/Cylon hybrid babies, so it makes sense that they would try to arrange as many human/Cylon relationships as possible to increase their chances of reproducing.

There's the Starbuck/Anders, Tyrol/Cally, Sharon/Helo, and Apollo/Dee relationships. Two of those relationships have resulted in offspring, and every one except the Apollo/Dee relationship has a known Cylon involved.

I wouldn't be surprised if Dee tells Apollo that she's pregnant in the next few episodes.

So my first vote is still that it is Apollo, but my backup is Dee.

Matherly
2008-Apr-14, 06:26 PM
Ellen Tigh.

I don't know if Jim's being serious or sarcastic, but that's who I think too. She seriously rubs Six the wrong way.


I think Ronald Moore has a vested interest in preserving the secret of who the final Cylon is and is not above providing a little mis-direction.

That was far nicer then how I would have phrased it. I would have said "Ron Moore lies like a rug" :D

And for the record, I think Baltar is the thirteenth model. One for each Lord/Colony plus one for Earth.

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-14, 06:31 PM
Another theory I have is that Rosalyn isn't the "dying leader" that she thinks she is. I think Adama is... we just haven't been told he's sick yet.

Rosalyn is leading them in the wrong direction, Adama wants to believe Starbuck and take the fleet that direction. I guess that could mean Starbuck is the dying leader that the prophecies mention, but she isn't really the leader of the society. But I guess if she leads the way to Earth that makes her the leader. And the fact that she has already died helps fulfill the prophecy.

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 07:10 PM
If the final Cylon is not one of the main human characters then my guess is that it will be Dee. One of the goals of the Cylons seems to be to create human/Cylon hybrid babies, so it makes sense that they would try to arrange as many human/Cylon relationships as possible to increase their chances of reproducing.That assumes some of the goals of the final five are the same as those of the rest of the Cylons.
That might not be the case.
I think the final five are different in many ways from the rest of the Cylon. Note how in this last episode Six said that the five are somehow tied into the origins of the Cylons, and implied that they don't know their exact origins. Perhaps the five are the creators of the other models?


There's the Starbuck/Anders, Tyrol/Cally, Sharon/Helo, and Apollo/Dee relationships. Two of those relationships have resulted in offspring, and every one except the Apollo/Dee relationship has a known Cylon involved.Or those relationships might exist because they make for good drama, rather than a specific Cylon plan.

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 07:11 PM
Rosalyn is leading them in the wrong direction, Adama wants to believe Starbuck and take the fleet that direction. I guess that could mean Starbuck is the dying leader that the prophecies mention, but she isn't really the leader of the society. But I guess if she leads the way to Earth that makes her the leader. And the fact that she has already died helps fulfill the prophecy.
I don't think having died and returned to life again is the same thing as "dying" from a prophetic standpoint.

The Supreme Canuck
2008-Apr-14, 07:39 PM
In the early third season episodes "Torn" and "A Measure of Salvation" an entire base star is wiped out, and the entire Cylon species is threatened by a virus that Cottle says is identical to one that struck the Colonies about 3,000 years ago (which modern humans have an immunity to). Athena is also immune because carrying Hera strengthened her immune system and gave her the neccessary antibodies to combat the disease.

Ah, that's right - I had forgotten. Comment rescinded.

SeanF
2008-Apr-14, 08:16 PM
Perhaps the five are the creators of the other models?
I've been thinking along those lines, too, hence my feeling that the remaining Cylon is Doctor Cottle. :)

One thing that I've just recently noticed is the numbering of the Cylon models - there are the seven known models and the five unknown (except to themselves) models. One would think that the numbers would be divided either 1-5 and 6-12 or 1-7 and 8-12. Instead the seven are numbers 1-6 and 8, with the five presumably being 7 and 9-12. Odd, that.

Another thought - Adama and Tigh know each other from way back when. It doesn't seem likely that there were human-form Cylons among the human population way back during the first Cylon war, so either the original Tigh was replaced with a Cylon Tigh (even though the Cylon Tigh appears to be one of those somehow superior to the other Cylons) or the final five are actually humans who were somehow corrupted or converted - and yet, still, superior to the other Cylons.

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 08:39 PM
Another thought - Adama and Tigh know each other from way back when. It doesn't seem likely that there were human-form Cylons among the human population way back during the first Cylon war, so either the original Tigh was replaced with a Cylon Tigh (even though the Cylon Tigh appears to be one of those somehow superior to the other Cylons) or the final five are actually humans who were somehow corrupted or converted - and yet, still, superior to the other Cylons.
Or the first humanoid Cylons were created right at the end of the war and Tigh is one of the first, if not the first.
When Tyrol said "We're Cylons, and we have been from the beginning" that implies to me that he knows, perhaps instinctively, that they aren't "converted" humans.

SeanF
2008-Apr-14, 09:01 PM
Or the first humanoid Cylons were created right at the end of the war and Tigh is one of the first, if not the first.
Didn't Tigh and Adama fight together in the first Cylon war?

Matherly
2008-Apr-14, 09:07 PM
Didn't Tigh and Adama fight together in the first Cylon war?

Yes.

(Edit to add...)

O.K., they were together in this First Cylon War.

Remember, all this has happened before and all of this will happen again. Maybe the 5 come from an eairlier iteration of the story...

Jason
2008-Apr-14, 09:17 PM
Adama is said to have 45 years of service (he was awarded a medal for the same last season) and Tigh has said he has 40 years of service, which is probably an approximate figure. We saw in Razor that Adama only fought in the very end of the war. That means he and Tigh may have served together only after the war ended, and still have known each other for about 40 years.

ToSeek
2008-Apr-14, 09:39 PM
I think they're all Cylons. ;)

Certassar
2008-Apr-14, 10:18 PM
I'm still voting for Tom Zarek. His a driven man. Terrorist or freedom fighter, he's got an agenda, and he's probably not aware of what exactly that agenda is, yet. So far he's just been driven to fight for influence and power in whatever way he can, not yet knowing his true calling. He could become a very powerful cylon, indeed.

Also, I have this vision, that BSG will eventually find Earth (or somewhere else - ships of light?), where they will meet Lorne Green, Dirk Benedict, Jane Seymour etc. The prodigal son (Tom Zarek - a.k.a. Apollo from when it all happened before) returns!!

;-)

Tobin Dax
2008-Apr-14, 11:15 PM
Adama is said to have 45 years of service (he was awarded a medal for the same last season) and Tigh has said he has 40 years of service, which is probably an approximate figure. We saw in Razor that Adama only fought in the very end of the war. That means he and Tigh may have served together only after the war ended, and still have known each other for about 40 years.
In Crossroads, Adama says that he and Tigh have been friends for 35 years. (I think it was Crossroads. I know I heard that number either rewatching S3 or the first two eps of S4.)

Jim
2008-Apr-15, 01:47 PM
Well, Ellen Tigh is a "sentimental favorite." It offers all sorts of neat twists.

But, that would require her to be "reborn" and the logisitcs of that could be overly complicated (assuming the producers really care about that).

On reflection, Tom Zarek does have a certain appeal, logic, and fewer complications (never been dead).

I'll switch my vote to Tom... but still hold wistful feelings for Ellen... as the Final One.

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-15, 02:31 PM
I must admit, it makes sense that it would be Tom Zarek. I wonder how the fans of the original series would react... they went berserk when the writers made Starbuck a woman, so I can imagine what they will say if they make the original Apollo a Cylon.

Hey, at least if they do make Zarek the final Cylon my guess that it is Apollo is still sort of right. ;)

SeanF
2008-Apr-15, 03:30 PM
Zarek being the final fiver would fit to a T:

Saul Tigh
Galen Tyrol
Samuel T. Anders
Tory Foster

and

Tom Zarek.

:)


In Crossroads, Adama says that he and Tigh have been friends for 35 years. (I think it was Crossroads. I know I heard that number either rewatching S3 or the first two eps of S4.)
So how long ago was the first Cylon war?

Hokie
2008-Apr-15, 04:06 PM
Another theory I have is that Rosalyn isn't the "dying leader" that she thinks she is. I think Adama is... we just haven't been told he's sick yet.

Rosalyn is leading them in the wrong direction, Adama wants to believe Starbuck and take the fleet that direction. I guess that could mean Starbuck is the dying leader that the prophecies mention, but she isn't really the leader of the society. But I guess if she leads the way to Earth that makes her the leader. And the fact that she has already died helps fulfill the prophecy.

Didn't the prophecies say that the dying leader would not see earth? If so Starbuck has seen Earth (if you believe her)

Tobin Dax
2008-Apr-15, 04:23 PM
So how long ago was the first Cylon war?
That I don't remember. I think it was mentioned in the miniseries.

Hokie
2008-Apr-15, 04:29 PM
At the start of the mini series no one had seen a Cylon in 40 or so. Presumable the Cylons left right after the war ended.

Trantor
2008-Apr-15, 04:37 PM
I used to think that it would be Roslin and my second choice was Adama, but since RDM has said that non of the main characters are the final Cylon, I would have to go with Zarek.

Zarek makes sense. He is a strong leader, like Adama and Roslin, and it would be a nice tie to the old series.

Jason
2008-Apr-15, 04:51 PM
Hmm. It occurs to me that Lee has said he will be working closely with Zarek in his new job. That could indeed be setup for bringing Zarek to a more prominent place in the show and an eventual unveiling as the final Cylon.

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-15, 05:19 PM
Didn't the prophecies say that the dying leader would not see earth? If so Starbuck has seen Earth (if you believe her)

Yeah, good point. So I'm going to stick with my theory that Admiral Adama is the dying leader that the prophecies spoke of. He's going to defy the President and take the fleet in the direction that Starbuck insists will lead to Earth, and at some point it will be revealed that he is dying (and will die before the fleet reaches Earth).

If Rosalyn is the leader that the prophecies refer to then she shouldn't be leading them in the wrong direction.

But then again, if the Cylons are right about there being only one God, then maybe the prophecy book that Rosalyn is basing her beliefs on is just plain wrong and shouldn't even be taken seriously.

Also, it's possible that this repetition of history is going to be different. The Cylons seem to be changing and doing things that are not predicted by the prophecies, so maybe the humans will do things differently too. This could be the time when the usual cycle of events is broken.

Delvo
2008-Apr-15, 05:54 PM
Wait, the dying leader with the "wasting disease" is supposed to also be the remaining humanoid model of Cylon? When did that come up? I thought it was a separate entity (and human).

Another interesting tidbit about TZ as the other Cylon is that Richard Hatch once wrote a pilot for a revival of the original series, set at least a couple of decades later (with Adama dead and Boxy grown up), which doesn't involve Cylons that look human hiding among humans, but does end with a final scene showing a borgified human among the Cylons, thus setting up a new theme that later episodes would have built on. (A "Cy-Borg", perhaps. ;)) Of course, that show was never filmed, but having TZ be this show's last Cylon revelation would make some connections/references to it... especially if I'm correct in remembering that the captured human in that script's close-up in the final scene was Apollo.

Certassar
2008-Apr-16, 11:55 AM
I don't think the Final 5th will be revealed before the mid-season break, although more "false clues" will be presented (like Baltar becoming a messiah and Starbuck returning from the dead). But my guess is that the screen-time of the Final 5th character will be steadily increasing during the next episodes. That's something to look for.

We haven't seen Tom Zarek for some time, now. I'll bet my daggit, that we'll be seeing him again in the next episode or the episode after that.

SeanF
2008-Apr-16, 01:19 PM
At the start of the mini series no one had seen a Cylon in 40 or so. Presumable the Cylons left right after the war ended.
So if Adama and Tigh have known each other for 35 years, and the first Cylon war ended at least 40 years ago, then Adama and Tigh's relationship does not , in fact, extend back into the first Cylon war.

Still, 35 years is a long time for a human-form Cylon to have been in existence and living within human society. Plus, unless everybody just took Tigh's word for it about his service record, there was some infiltration of the records systems going on way back then, too.

clint
2008-Apr-16, 01:46 PM
What's been nagging at me is that vision D'Anna had of the final 5.
She was utterly shocked by the sight of one of them ("I had no idea...")

Seems to me that a minor character is unlikely to provoke that kind of reaction,
and it also looks like she met someone very familiar to her...

PS: it's already been announced that D'Anna will be back this season, so she will probably play a role in revealing the final cylon.

SeanF
2008-Apr-16, 01:59 PM
What's been nagging at me is that vision D'Anna had of the final 5.
She was utterly shocked by the sight of one of them ("I had no idea...")

Seems to me that a minor character is unlikely to provoke that kind of reaction,
and it also looks like she met someone very familiar to her...
I thought it was assumed that was Tigh, whom the Cylons had treated, shall we say, rather poorly.

Speaking of D'Anna's vision, though, does it seem to anybody else that the picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Battlestar_Galactica_3x10_The_Passage_-_Final_Five.jpg) she drew shows two women (far left and center)? :)

Trantor
2008-Apr-16, 02:34 PM
What's been nagging at me is that vision D'Anna had of the final 5.
She was utterly shocked by the sight of one of them ("I had no idea...")

Seems to me that a minor character is unlikely to provoke that kind of reaction,
and it also looks like she met someone very familiar to her...

PS: it's already been announced that D'Anna will be back this season, so she will probably play a role in revealing the final cylon.

Well, Zarek may not be one of the major roles, but he was in fact the Vice President, serving under Baltar during the occupation. At the time, I thought that it was probably Roslin that she saw in her vision.

I also wonder if the final Cylon is just one of the final five that is unknown,(probably because he/she was not on the Galactica), or is different in some way from the other four.

Jason
2008-Apr-16, 03:21 PM
I thought it was assumed that was Tigh, whom the Cylons had treated, shall we say, rather poorly.Not only that, but D'Anna personally treated Tigh rather poorly in their first meeting.


Speaking of D'Anna's vision, though, does it seem to anybody else that the picture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Battlestar_Galactica_3x10_The_Passage_-_Final_Five.jpg) she drew shows two women (far left and center)? :)It does look like two women, but the people in the picture don't really look much like the four we've seen. I'm not sure it can be trusted.

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Apr-16, 04:52 PM
I hate to say it but the one on the left looks like Starbuck

phunk
2008-Apr-16, 07:56 PM
What's been nagging at me is that vision D'Anna had of the final 5.
She was utterly shocked by the sight of one of them ("I had no idea...")

Seems to me that a minor character is unlikely to provoke that kind of reaction,
and it also looks like she met someone very familiar to her...


Didn't she try to kill Anders once? Maybe that's who she was apologizing to.

SeanF
2008-Apr-16, 08:25 PM
Didn't she try to kill Anders once? Maybe that's who she was apologizing to.
Ah, yes - in the parking garage on Caprica after the bombing attempt. Six and Boomer saved him by killing her, as I recall.

Delvo
2008-Apr-17, 01:43 AM
According to that drawing, the missing Cylon is Eddie Munster.

Kevn
2008-Apr-18, 12:43 AM
I think the final cylon is the littl kid that was sick, and then "healed" when Baltar offered up his life.

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-19, 02:48 AM
Did anyone else catch the little easter egg in tonights episode? Three of the final five Cylons (Tyrol, Tigh, and Tory) met for a secret conversation in Weapons Locker 1701D... as in NCC-1701-D. ;)

Delvo
2008-Apr-19, 03:06 AM
I just thought it was interesting for a weapons locker to have nothing in it at all, not even empty storage racks for weapons. It was just like any generic storage room, and empty. When I saw the number on the door, I read it as "17010", which isn't anything I know of but a ZIP code for a little town I never heard of in Pennsylvania.

Jason
2008-Apr-19, 04:09 AM
Looks like the final cylon is not going to be Cally...

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-19, 04:29 AM
I just thought it was interesting for a weapons locker to have nothing in it at all, not even empty storage racks for weapons. It was just like any generic storage room, and empty.

They must be running low on ammunition and weapons. They've been through a lot of battles and have no ports to resupply them, so they would have to get by with whatever the fleet can produce on it's own (and whatever they transfered from the Pegasus before it was destroyed).

By the way, I am officially changing my vote to Tom Zarek. :shifty:

xyzzy
2008-Apr-19, 05:52 AM
I'm still thinking it's Cally. Think about the plot twists!

Someone stated that one of the primary goals of the Cylons was to produce human/cylon hybrids. I disagree. They want to know how to reproduce without cloning. Wouldn't it be interesting if there were two cylons (chief/cally) who produced offspring? Plus, as an added twist, Cally hates Cylons!

Van Rijn
2008-Apr-19, 06:14 AM
A hollow voice says, "Welcome to BAUT!"

astrotech
2008-Apr-21, 09:55 AM
The battlestar Galactica itself. Maybe it's a like a Cylon rader with a brain. It was going to be retired so it fostered the war to avoid retirement?

Couldn't it be considered a leader? Near retirement, a dying leader. Never to see Earth. Why would it want to see Earth? It's a Cylon.

It leads the humans to Earth and then what???

Jim
2008-Apr-21, 01:18 PM
Did anyone else catch the little easter egg in tonights episode? Three of the final five Cylons (Tyrol, Tigh, and Tory) met for a secret conversation in Weapons Locker 1701D... as in NCC-1701-D. ;)

OMG, that's it!

The Final Cylon is Jean-Luc!!

It all makes sense now. Remember how interested he was in Data's attempts to be human? Remember how easily he went from human to borg to human again?

Of course.

Tobin Dax
2008-Apr-21, 02:52 PM
OMG, that's it!

The Final Cylon is Jean-Luc!!

It all makes sense now. Remember how interested he was in Data's attempts to be human? Remember how easily he went from human to borg to human again?

Of course.
They covered that already with Tigh. He's bald, lost an eye to torture by machines, likes alcohol (Picard's family had the vinyards, remember); the main difference is that Tigh didn't get his eye back. :)

astrotech
2008-Apr-21, 08:18 PM
Did anyone else catch the little easter egg in tonights episode? Three of the final five Cylons (Tyrol, Tigh, and Tory) met for a secret conversation in Weapons Locker 1701D... as in NCC-1701-D. ;)

If it was not just an easter egg, if it was a clue, it was a clue composed of the number of a ship, a clue pointing to a ship.

If the battlestar Galactica is the cylon it does open the door for some interesting follow ups even after "The Final Season".

Tell you the truth. It looks kind of cylon.

vonmazur
2008-Apr-21, 08:26 PM
In re; 1701 D....so the Enterprise and the Death Star are going to show up, Darth Vader will get into arguments with the Cylons and Borg about who is the most mechanized.....All parties will agree, Wesley Crusher must be sacrificed to the the Gods of Kobol.....The Brinloidi will supply the whisky (euisgi-poteen, what ever they call it...) ....This is going to be fun to watch...The Mariposans will consult with the Cylons about genetic drift......

Dale

Doodler
2008-Apr-21, 08:29 PM
Having seen all of three episodes of season four, plus wiki research, I put money on Zarek based on the hybrid's prophecy.

ToSeek
2008-Apr-22, 09:40 PM
Did anyone else catch the little easter egg in tonights episode? Three of the final five Cylons (Tyrol, Tigh, and Tory) met for a secret conversation in Weapons Locker 1701D... as in NCC-1701-D. ;)

I spotted that right away.

Tobin Dax
2008-Apr-23, 01:04 AM
I spotted that right away.
Right away being on the note Cally found. I was half-hoping it was a typo.

LunarOrbit
2008-Apr-23, 02:52 PM
OMG, that's it!

The Final Cylon is Jean-Luc!!

It all makes sense now. Remember how interested he was in Data's attempts to be human? Remember how easily he went from human to borg to human again?

Of course.

:lol:

I was actually thinking it was just a little joke from Ronald Moore to the fans, but if it is a clue to the identity of the final Cylon then it could be pointing to Admiral Cain (aka. Michelle Forbes, who played Ensign Ro on ST:TNG). That would require the final five to have the ability to download into new bodies, and so far we have no reason to believe they can do that.

But my vote is still for Tom Zarek.

Jason
2008-Apr-23, 03:08 PM
I'm pretty sure it was just an in joke, not a hint.

Certassar
2008-Apr-23, 10:14 PM
I don't care, as long as it isn't Wesley Crusher. ;-)

But Tom Zarek is still the best bet, IMO. He's a powerful character, and (as I've said before) don't understimate the significance of him being the real Apollo (back then, when it all happened before).