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humanrevolution
2008-Apr-13, 12:17 AM
Here we go, Planet-X and 2012....so sorry for posting this. But Im a worried teenager. Can you please explain how this stuff is simply a hoax? Proof? im 16 years old im a gullable kid. So please help out. Would NASA or the Govt hide this stuff from us?

aurora
2008-Apr-13, 03:38 AM
Did you try searching this site? You are correct, that there have been dozens and dozens of threads that have answered this question over and over.

01101001
2008-Apr-13, 06:09 AM
Here we go, Planet-X and 2012....so sorry for posting this. But Im a worried teenager. Can you please explain how this stuff is simply a hoax? Proof? im 16 years old im a gullable kid. So please help out. Would NASA or the Govt hide this stuff from us?

No. NASA and other parts of the US government cannot hide stuff like this because they don't control who can look up. They don't run the world. Really. If the problem existed, other countries' governments, other scientists, other educators, even other able amateurs, like your friends here, would also know about it and be discussing it openly trying to understand it better, trying to ameliorate it.

I probably can't begin to convince you it's not true because I don't know which of the dozens and dozens of versions you've heard about. They're all hooey. Each has probably got some attention in the following BAUT Forum topics, but I'll leave you to address which subject matter addresses your particular concerns. If among them you don't find information about the 2012 version you understand to be predicted, do ask here.

We've all been worried teens ('cept our even younger members), but after you live through a few dozen more similar false alarms -- and you likely will -- then some day you can be telling the next generation of worried teens that there are far, far more worthwhile things to worry about, like their health, their safety, their education, their impact on the world, and about their loved ones.


2003 no, 2012 si (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=03179)
2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=03181)
End of Mayan Calendar (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=04509)
Pole shift / Planetary alignment 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=07145)
2012 alignment question (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=09421)
about the Mayan 2012 item (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10214)
2012 Debunking? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10724)
Possible asteroid impact in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=10924)
2012 asteroid? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=13592)
We don't have to worry about 2012! (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16490)
More on 2012 from India Daily (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=16709)
2012 Completion of conspiracy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=17667)
Here's what's REALLY going to happen in 2012... (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18322)
crop circles, Planet X and 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18375)
Planet X, crop circles and 2012 cataclysma (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18378)
According to the Mayans, what will happen on 23rd Dec. 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=18757)
More 2012 Nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=19201)
NEO 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20191)
Dangerous NEO in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=20539)
Christmas 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=23941)
2012 mayan calender end of world (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=30892)
Regarding the supposed polar shift/new ice age in 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=31452)
New 2012 threat? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=32413)
2012 look at this thing on the sun (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=35462)
Russian Expert Predicts Global Cooling from 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=38978)
Pole shift idea origins (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=43775)
Dec 20 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=46117)
2012 Stuff (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=51021)
Horizon Project-New End of World Scare? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53788)
Date: December 21st 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53831)
Earth passing thru Galactic center in 2012 - didn't that already happen? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53904)
2012: What do you think well happen (if anything) (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=53924)
So what will we see in 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54404)
Galactic Tsunami? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=54418)
Plane of the ecliptic of the galaxy? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55312)
Earth's Magnetic Field & 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=55386)
2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=56513)
Any truth to this? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=58039)
How can the sun be aligned with Galactic centre? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63109)
the whole 2012 poles flip nonsense (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=63449)
Planet X Official Advertisement (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=65831)
What year are we in (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=66055)
Quick question about the sun (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=66221)
Galactic Alignment (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=66414)
Books of 2012! - (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=67663)
2007 = 2012 (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=67908)
Return of Planet X By Rand (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=67948)
Don Alejandro - Mayan Elder. (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=67954)
Toutatis 4179: 2012? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=68472)
Galactic Alignment in 2012 ? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=68661)
Solar Storms (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=68907)
A real prediction! (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=69448)
NIBURU - Brown Dwarf, The DESTROYER (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=70163)
2012 Galactic Alignment (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=70260)
Not 2012 again! But I cant help it~ (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=70438)
New evidence for 2012 TEOTWAWKI!!! (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=70795)
this may be a silly question but... (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=71061)
Just to know if this is true (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=71216)
Just Wondering... (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=71633)
Planet X/Nibiru, is it real? (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=72398)
Youv heard this a million times. (http://www.bautforum.com/showthread.php?t=72777)

At least 61 BAUT Forum topics in which year 2012 is discussed. And counting...

KaiYeves
2008-Apr-13, 07:51 PM
Hi, humanrevolution! BAUT has a lot of young users, including myself, so you're not alone!
Others here are better than me at astronomy, so I'll explain the archeological side of why this stuff is a load of rotten peanut butter:
The Mayans had several ancient calendars, measuring different lengths of time, like our years, decades, centuries and millenia. When one "turned over", another one began, just like the 21st century began in 2000/2001 when the 20th century ended. The current Long Count calender ends in 2012, but- and this is important- another Long Count calendar cycle starts.
You could call the whole 2012 thing a bit of an ancient version of the Y2K panic!

humanrevolution
2008-Apr-13, 10:31 PM
Ok cool, so what about the I ching? Book of revalations, the Bible, nostradamus, prophets? Timewave zero? All just a coincidence in 2012?

Gillianren
2008-Apr-14, 12:00 AM
Ok cool, so what about the I ching? Book of revalations, the Bible, nostradamus, prophets? Timewave zero? All just a coincidence in 2012?

First, it's the Book of Revelation. Which is, you know, in the Bible and therefore should not be counted as separate. Second, when written, it was intended as current events. Third, there is, to my knowledge--even leaving that out--nothing in there about 2012. Fourth, you can make Nostradamus say anything; go read some of the quatrains, for preference in an edition with various interpretations included to see how different they are and how far into the future various people think they are. Fifth, can you be more specific than "prophets"?

I don't know much about the I Ching, and I don't even know what timewave zero is. To head things off at the pass, in case you haven't read the five dozen or so threads presented to you, the Mayan calendar doesn't end; it rolls over.

humanrevolution
2008-Apr-14, 12:08 AM
Im not worried about the maya calendar. Im more worried about planet x and pole shift.

aurora
2008-Apr-14, 01:59 AM
There is no large planet that has an orbit that takes it from outside Neptune to inside Earth. If there was, we would see the effects of its gravity on the planets in our solar system.

This no doubt has been described dozens of times on this site already.

The Earth's magnetic pole shifts. The Earth's axis cannot shift (other than the well known oscillations) due to the impact of our large moon.

BlueTiger
2008-Apr-14, 12:12 PM
A couple of months ago The Universe did a feature on the theory that the Sun is part of a binary system. Its partner is a so far undetected red dwarf (or maybe even a brown dwarf) named Nemesis with an extreme eliptical orbit which brings it through the Oort Cloud every 26 million years or so. This causes perturbations in orbits of comets bringing them into the inner solar system to wreck havoc. I'm sure its next close encounter with the solar system will be in 2012.

:whistle:

aurora
2008-Apr-14, 02:54 PM
Ok cool, so what about the I ching? Book of revalations, the Bible, nostradamus, prophets? Timewave zero? All just a coincidence in 2012?

I wanted to point out that this is a science site. None of the things you mention (at least the ones I have heard of before) are scientific or based on anything resulting from the scientific method.

If you believe in, say, psychics, I'd point out that they can be and have been debunked over and over and over. What would make you think that "predictions" worded such that anyone could interpret them to mean anything could actually have any predictive value?

You might want to read something written by skeptics, or even listen to some podcasts. Use your brain, be critical of information that is given to you. Don't just accept any old random claims that someone makes without using critical thought.

Gillianren
2008-Apr-14, 04:40 PM
Im not worried about the maya calendar. Im more worried about planet x and pole shift.

Ah. Well, you see, the reason those people have currently latched onto 2012 (the original date for "Planet X" was some five years ago) is the Mayan calendar. So if they're wrong about that . . . .

KaiYeves
2008-Apr-15, 01:29 AM
Im not worried about the maya calendar. Im more worried about planet x and pole shift.
Sorry, I wasn't sure. The magnetic poles move around a few miles over time (Which is why a compass doesn't work in the arctic or antarctic), but they stay within the polar areas, they don't flip over completely.

humanrevolution
2008-Apr-15, 03:12 AM
A couple of months ago The Universe did a feature on the theory that the Sun is part of a binary system. Its partner is a so far undetected red dwarf (or maybe even a brown dwarf) named Nemesis with an extreme eliptical orbit which brings it through the Oort Cloud every 26 million years or so. This causes perturbations in orbits of comets bringing them into the inner solar system to wreck havoc. I'm sure its next close encounter with the solar system will be in 2012.

:whistle:


Great thanks, now another thing im going to worry about.

Van Rijn
2008-Apr-15, 07:17 AM
Great thanks, now another thing im going to worry about.

I would strongly suggest you not believe every scary story you hear. The Nemesis idea isn't supported in the first place, and in the second place, why would there just happen to be all these terrible things in 2012, yet we see nothing in 2008?

Van Rijn
2008-Apr-15, 07:29 AM
I wanted to point out that this is a science site. None of the things you mention (at least the ones I have heard of before) are scientific or based on anything resulting from the scientific method.


"Timewave zero" was a new one for me, so I looked it up:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novelty_theory


The timewave itself is a combination of numerology and mathematics. It is formed out of McKenna's interpretation and analysis of numerical patterns in the King Wen sequence of the I Ching (the ancient Chinese Book of Changes). This concept first took root in his entheogenic experiences shared by him and his brother Dennis McKenna as documented in the book True Hallucinations. [snip]

That as the complexity and sophistication of human thought and culture increase, universal novelty approaches a Koch curve of infinite exponential growth.
That in the time immediately prior to, and during this omega point of infinite novelty, anything and everything conceivable to the human imagination will occur simultaneously.
That the date of this historical endpoint is December 21, 2012, the end of the long count of the Mayan calendar. (Although many interpretations of the "end" of the Mayan calendar exist, partly due to abbreviations made by the Maya when referring to the date, McKenna used the solstice date in 2012, a common interpretation of the calendar among New Age writers, although this date corresponds to such an abbreviation rather than the full date. [snip]
There are several criticisms of novelty theory. Many contend that it is a sophistry based on a form of irrational scientism with pseudoscientific premises and reasoning.


Of course, they worked in the Mayan angle. I'll try to say this in a nice way: I am quite unimpressed with this stuff. This is nonsense.

Unregistered
2008-Apr-15, 01:21 PM
Actualy, there is plenty of evidence to support a magnetic shift. Rock beds revealing bands of magnetic polarisation and current models of the electromagnetic shield around Earth show it to be losing cohesion. (again ;D ).

But that doesnt neccasarily mean anything bad will come of it - and there's nothing to link it with 2012...

It likely means that there will be a lot of Northern Lights like effects all over the planet and cancer statistics will go up a few notches over time.

Quite a regular geological event, apparently.

Unregistered
2008-Apr-15, 01:29 PM
Anyone hear of the Technology Singularity?
Its like Mckenna's Timewave Zero, but with less thrills.
Nonetheless, I am equally unimpressed with under-zealous "scientific" dogma.
It would be refreshing for people to try and understand what makes people say or think certain things - to reach common understandings instead of subscribing to material reductionism which when taked too far leads only to Nhilism.

Objective evaluation is only half of the equation when there exists a whole Universe of Subjective human experiences. The truth is whitnessed as both.