View Full Version : Black Holes, White Holes and Brane Theory?

2003-Sep-09, 04:13 AM
Why hello thar!

I've been following this forum for over a year and I finally think I'm edgumicated enough to post what I feel are valid questions. I must warn that I'm no physicist or mathematician so I could be wrong in my interpretations. If so, please correct me. I'm currently involved in a debate (on a gaming forum) that involves some fairly exotic ideas such as worm holes, white holes, and multiple universes. I can't help but be completely intrigued by these theories (or speculations?). I thought I'd post my interpretations of some of these ideas before I get into the questioning.

Black Holes:
A result of Einstein's GTR equations. These exotic objects are the result of a star, or other massive object, that has collapsed under the weight of its own gravity to an infinite density. Gravitational forces are so strong that spacetime is severly warped and will not allow even light to escape once it has passed the point of no return, known as the Event Horizon. Observations have been made that shows strong evidence of their existance (Cygnus X1). Mainstream science has accepted the existence of black holes, which were once considered science fiction.

White Holes:
Again, a result of Einstein's equations. These are the exact opposite of black holes and sometimes referred to as anti-black holes. Although highly unlikely, Hawking theorizes that they could (should?) have been created at the beginning of the Big Bang era. It is my understanding that a white hole is not possible unless the black hole from whence it came (OK, I'll admit stealing that line from Elrond) does not contain matter. So, the only way white holes can be a reality is if they were created by the original Big Bang, meaning they pre-existed.

Brane Theory:
A 5-dimensional theory (4-spacetime + 1 "shell" dimension) that provides an alternative to Alan Guth's inflationary theory. In this theory, our universe is said to be the result of a cataclysmic collision of parallel membranes. No singularity is needed by this model because the collision occurs simultaneously and creates matter uniformly. It also addresses the problems of monopoles, horizon, and flatness, while providing the same level of accuracy in its predictions as other models. The creation of a universe occurs in cycles ... exceedingly long cycles. Dark energy also plays a large role in the expansion of the Universe in this model. In addition to expanding this theory allows for the possibility of collapse(s), which says that our universe is not only infinite in scale, but time as well.

That being said, it seems reasonable to think that singularities could have been created in the initial collision. This implies that black holes, as well as white holes, could have existed from the very beginning. If this turns out to be the case, then it also leaves room for the possibility of worm holes. This is assuming that no matter interacted with the black holes originally created. Also, after watching the video of Paul Steinhardt explain Brane Theory (not that I understood it clearly), I concluded that there was no reason NOT to think that multiple branes could have collided at approximately the same time. I've even thought of the idea of one of the parallel branes "ripping" to create multiple universes, although I'm not sure if this is even possible ... or likely. So, now that I've given my interpretion of these, here are my questions:

1) Is it possible that white holes could be causing the expansion of the Universe, a.k.a. dark enery? Since there is no matter involved, I would think that a white hole would be undetectable; hence the reason we can't detect dark energy (or can we?).

2) If a combination of white/black holes do exist, is it even possible to take advantage of the folded spacetime (worm hole)? When I say is it possible, I mean will we one day have the ability to utilize these as a form of transit, maybe generating some sort of anti-matter/gravity field around a wessel (yes, wessel ... as Pavel Checkov would say :D). It could take hundreds of thousands of years to develop the technology or maybe even millions, but is it still a possibility?

3) Can these worm holes be man made, however unlikely?

4) Is the possibility of multiple universes realistic, based on what I've stated above (branes ripping or multiple branes colliding)? If so, would worm holes provide us access to these universes or would we be bound to our own?

5) Could there be a reason that these branes collided in the first place? Were they given a "nudge" by you know who?

Bonus Question: Will we find spice on Mars? (Just say yes so I can be happy :P )

I don't mean to post such obsurd questions, but I can't help but speculate about these things based on the reading I've done. As I stated though, I'm not very well educated in physics or mathematics so I can only base my assumptions on text I've read. Hopefully you guys can set me straight. In fact, I'm sure you will!

2003-Sep-09, 04:18 AM
I for one don't believe in white holes. The only possible white hole I can think of would be the universe itself.

White holes are supposed to be the opposite of black holes, which would logically mean that their anti-gravity is so strong that light itself cannot reach it. If this is so, what keeps the white hole from just exploding the instant it's created?

Given how late it is, the only theory I can think of is this: In a given universe, a star collapses and forms a black hole. This creates a new daughter universe. The "big bang" for the daughter universe is just a white hole that spews out all the matter and energy the new universe contains in a planck time and then disappears.

2003-Sep-09, 11:42 PM
I'm sorry, but the thread demands this...

This Brane theory makes my brane *er* brain hurt.

2003-Sep-10, 01:20 PM
Given how late it is, the only theory I can think of is this: In a given universe, a star collapses and forms a black hole. This creates a new daughter universe. The "big bang" for the daughter universe is just a white hole that spews out all the matter and energy the new universe contains in a planck time and then disappears.

Is this an actual theory? If so, do you have a link for it?

2003-Sep-10, 02:18 PM
Nope, I made that one up on the spot. It seemed the only way I could (quickly) have white holes be the counterpart of black holes and yet not have any white holes be observable (when otherwise they would be the brightest things around)

2003-Sep-17, 11:45 PM
Anyone else have any thoughts on what I originally posted? Or are my interpretations and questions too far out in left field?

2003-Sep-18, 12:16 AM
Sure. If we land on Mars, we will certainly bring spice. I like pepper myself. :wink: