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View Full Version : Are the hoaxers sincere?



Madcat
2003-Sep-11, 08:39 PM
Well, ya know, do they? I don't think they do really.

Sigma_Orionis
2003-Sep-11, 09:58 PM
They just so happen to have the video/book/whatever with the actual proofs and they'll let you have it at a reasonable price? sounds like a scam to me......

JayUtah
2003-Sep-11, 10:15 PM
I don't think the kingpins are sincere. They just know a good ride when they see it.

But there are plenty of relatively normal and obscure people who do believe the hype.

I suspect there may be another group of people who don't really believe it, don't profit from it, but just advocate it as a lark -- a sort of expression of rebellion to see how many chains they can yank.

snowcelt
2003-Sep-11, 10:28 PM
I think that everyone has at least one belief contrary (unless they are completely dull) to the mainstream.
For example: most people on this planet believe in god(s).
As a non-believer in god(s) I am contrary to the majority. Is my contention that there is no god(s) a part of a conspiracy? No. Why?
Because there is good evidence that there is no god(s). I do not conspire to shake the foundation of theology, but, rather wish to know what really is.
Apollo hoaxers are in the minority. Does my above contention place the AHers in the same category? No! Why? Because what they contend is something that flys in the face of reality. Everyone believes that man went to the moon because the evidence is overwhelming. Some people believe that there is no god(s) because they see no overwhelming evidence that there is a god.
Hoaxers and there ilk are evil people that want to make people tense---that is all they are after.

JayUtah
2003-Sep-11, 11:13 PM
Everyone believes that man went to the moon because the evidence is overwhelming.

Not necessarily. Some people believe that man went to the moon because it's the common belief. Most of them haven't examined the evidence. That's why so many people get bowled over by the conspiracy theorists: the conspiracists show them things they've never seen or considered before -- but only spoonfuls of it designed to guide them to a predetermined conclusion.

Hoaxers and there ilk are evil people that want to make people tense---that is all they are after.

Yep. There is a definite faction that wants to keep people on edge. I guess some people aren't happy until they're oppressed.

snowcelt
2003-Sep-12, 12:05 AM
But JayUtah, I do not get it! If the hoaxers are leading the blind, a small dull minority, to a conclusion, a conclusion in which most find to be laughable, are the perps not commiting a conspiracy of their own?

To fill in the blanks, the perps are conspiring to sew discord. If the perps show nothing but what can be skewed; the arcane--- that that even the intellegent, but, not mathematical person--- can not see prima facia, They are conspiring.

freddo
2003-Sep-12, 12:36 AM
But JayUtah, I do not get it! If the hoaxers are leading the blind, a small dull minority, to a conclusion, a conclusion in which most find to be laughable, are the perps not commiting a conspiracy of their own?

I think you're getting it!


To fill in the blanks, the perps are conspiring to sew discord

And the result of this is money to the kingpins. :evil:

Conspiracy? I don't think that's quite the right word... But it's certainly something akin. :o

pghnative
2003-Sep-12, 02:05 AM
I suspect there may be another group of people who don't really believe it, don't profit from it, but just advocate it as a lark -- a sort of expression of rebellion to see how many chains they can yank.

Certainly the few "HB's" I've ever met fall into this category. (In which case they're not "B's". Maybe HCY's for Hoax Crank Yankers") They would put forth an argument about flag waving or missing stars, then sit back with a subtle smirk while others tried to explain the truth.

I suspect a lot of the trolls on this board fall into this category. They get a kick out of pointing out irrelevant mistakes by debunkers, then enjoy the chaos they cause.

NASA Fan
2003-Sep-12, 05:04 AM
There are many people who believe "strange" things.

Take all the people who believe that UFO's regularly visit earth and abduct people.

A friend of mine worked with someone who believed everything that was written in the rags that have stories like "Alien pulled over for speeding" "Hitler is alive in a hosital in Russia"

There are many people who do not believe that the holocaust was real, despite the pictures and film made by the Nazi's.

I think that most people believe the way they do through lack of knowledge, or a refusal to believe in the evidence.

As someone else said, many people have not been exposed to the evidence that we did go to the moon, and when a slick-talking person shows them "evidence" that we did not go, it is easier to believe a "documentary" with "proof" than it is to research and find the answers.

Fortunately with web-sites like this, and the ones ones dispelling urban ledgens, it is easier to dispel stories that an alien came to earth, mated with the abominal(sp?) snowman, and produced a lizard-boy child who weighed 300 pounds at birth. :lol:

snowcelt
2003-Sep-12, 05:34 AM
This is not a legal way to do anything,

However: This has worked for me,

When annyone says anything that is stupid you either kick-the- s*** out of them; or, never talk to them again. Anecdote.

Folk. "I believe that the only way that things can work out is if you do what has to be done"

P***,off.

Aliens? Can not be as bad as Dad.

Astronot
2003-Sep-12, 01:11 PM
Largely, they are a group for whom truth is a stranger. Being smart or dumb is not an issue for such people. I have personally known others like this, that really donít have a good sense of what truth is. Iím sure other of you have as well. They feel free to make up stories that tie some loose facts and information together, because that is how they perceive the rest of the world operates. Itís not an educational deficiency that can be corrected but a part of there personality.

We all do this to some degree in parts of our lives, because certain areas of life do not yield well to science and we canít be knowledgeable about everything. However when discussing physical realities, such as the moon landings or the existence of Planet X, this loose way of making up stories is completely worthless. Evidently though, it does give many people a feeling of power over their own lives. I donít think that getting rich is the primary motivation behind most of them. Rather there motivation is more likely to make a change in the world.

JayUtah
2003-Sep-12, 03:26 PM
... are the perps not commiting a conspiracy of their own?

In my opinion, yes. The true conspiracy is the conspiracy by a handful of people to make money off the gullibility of others.

jscotti
2003-Sep-12, 05:05 PM
... are the perps not commiting a conspiracy of their own?

In my opinion, yes. The true conspiracy is the conspiracy by a handful of people to make money off the gullibility of others.

I agree that most of these kinds of conspiracy theories are really just conspiracies on the part of the "true believers" who selectively mine the facts for whatever supports their theories while ignoring or dismissing contradictory facts and moulding the facts to their purposes. Phil Klass' book on Roswell called "The Real Roswell Crashed-Saucer Coverup" is an excellent post-mortem exposing one well known example of such a conspiracy. Whether or not the promotors of such conspiracies believes or not is almost irrelevant, but their method is obivious and amazingly consistent.

I don't think the original question is as simple as yes or no. I think there is a broad spectrum ranging from true believers in the hoax to chiselers out to make a buck. I suspect most of the hoax proponents believe in at least part of what they promote, however.

As for their followers, most of the ones I've corresponded with are firm believers in the hoax, to the point of belittling opposing views on sight. The most satisfying cases are the ones that have been convinced by the hoaxers, but are actively questioning what they have heard and usually come around once a few questions are answered.

Jim.