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View Full Version : I would Prefer Galileo Not Hit Jupiter



BubbleGum
2003-Sep-15, 03:51 AM
Would it have been possible to make Galileo instead strike Callisto? I don't see much chance of contamination from terrestrial bugs being a problem on Callisto. Its surface is billions of years old.

The reason I ask is because the one thing humans have made that will last the longest is on the moon. The leftovers of the lunar landers will remain recognizeable as artificial for billions of years. It would be nice to put another pile of artificial human junk on Callisto. Even if it is just a smear from the 20 (50?) miles per second impact. Hey, the plutonium alone would leave a nice marker.

~Bub

cprgm
2003-Sep-15, 04:56 AM
I don't think there would be anything left to identify, considering how fast it's moving.
-Jeff

freddo
2003-Sep-15, 05:20 AM
It would be nice to put another pile of artificial human junk on Callisto. Even if it is just a smear from the 20 (50?) miles per second impact.

Now that's a better thing to hear than "I don't want to explode Jupiter" - most refreshing.

However, I think it would be considerably more difficult to move Galileo into an impact course with a Jovian Moon, rather than just drop it into the planet itself.

I wouldn't worry about the posterity either Bub, as cprgm said - I'm not sure how big a marker of our ingenuity a totally destroyed probe is gonna be...

bmpbmp
2003-Sep-15, 02:10 PM
so u are saying that there are dangers of crashing the probe into jupitor

Kaptain K
2003-Sep-15, 02:14 PM
so u are saying that there are dangers of crashing the probe into jupitor
No! 8)

tusenfem
2003-Sep-15, 03:03 PM
As we have discovered that Callisto also has an inductive magnetic field, and thus a liquid water layer underneath the ice I don't think we would like to contaminate a nice little moon like that with Earth's germs.

Madcat
2003-Sep-15, 04:41 PM
Actually, leaving a probe smashed like a bug on Callisto would be a pretty amusing monument even if no one ever looks at it. :)

Wingnut Ninja
2003-Sep-15, 08:13 PM
Yes! Smash Callisto! All ahead full, ramming speed!

Heck, we've already dinged Mars a few times just by accident.

mike alexander
2003-Sep-15, 09:46 PM
But Galileo is not going to hit Jupiter. It's going to burn up in the Jovian atmosphere.

Besides, they didn't want to take a chance on hitting any of those big, black rectangle things.

Nenya
2003-Sep-15, 10:46 PM
Yes! Smash Callisto! All ahead full, ramming speed!

Heck, we've already dinged Mars a few times just by accident.

So that means we actually have space junk on Mars, too, doesn't it? From the 1997 mission and others, right? Not human footprints, but human-made artifacts. Unless something happened to the stuff we landed on Mars?

It is giving me chills up the spine, contemplating some race (if alien races there be) coming across our stuff years or millenia from now, and trying to figure out everything they can about these weirdos who made the stuff. Especially if we aren't around any more. Wow..... :o

wedgebert
2003-Sep-15, 11:52 PM
It is giving me chills up the spine, contemplating some race (if alien races there be) coming across our stuff years or millenia from now, and trying to figure out everything they can about these weirdos who made the stuff. Especially if we aren't around any more. Wow..... :o

They'll probably look at the wreckage of our Mars probes and say "geez, no wonder they're extinct, they can't even land an unmanned probe on a nearby world safely".

BubbleGum
2003-Sep-16, 12:40 AM
My question was mostly about the ability of hitting Callisto or missing and having it go off in some unknown direction. Kind of like telling a sharpshooter he has to hit the side of a barn. Then telling him you changed your mind. We want you to hit the horsefly sitting 2.734 meters from the corner of the barn door.

I don't see any worry about contaminating Callisto. It may have a liquid ocean inside, but the crust is acient. And why does NASA worry so much about contaminating Europa when they already have contaminated Mars many times.

As for igniting Jupitor... I wish Galileo could ignite Jupitor. It would be nice having a red dwarf in the neighborhood. It might turn Callisto and/or Europa into a water world paradise.

The whole purpose of the post has to do with humans leaving behind evidence that we existed. Something that says 'We Were Here" for billions of years to come. The landers on the Moon will be there for billions of years. The landers on Mars will not last, they will decompose due to the martian atmosphere. The Mars, Moon and/or Earth could get ejected from the solar system over the next few billion years. But Jupitor will be in the solar system until the end of the sun. And I would assume the 4 big Jovian moons have more stable orbits on the gigayear timescale then the inner planets.

~Bub

Madcat
2003-Sep-16, 04:06 AM
They're worried about Europa because it very likely has liquid water, and that really could mean there is life there, maybe even complex life. I'd say it's a lot more likely than anything living or dead on Mars. Let's just say that it'd really suck if we discovered what could be the only other life in the universe just to watch it die in front of us because we contaminated its environment in some way. I really do hope they send either a manned or robotic submersible there some day along with a really big drill to take a look at that ocean. They will have to be very careful to ensure that no microorganisms are introduced to the area though.

BubbleGum
2003-Sep-16, 08:46 AM
I understand that argument very well, madcat. Trouble is, the exact same argument could be used against landing any earth craft on Mars. But we already have done it one Mars. Several times. The concern for contaminating another intraterrestrial ecosystem was not a concern 30 years ago.

It's just too bad we won't keeping that little bugger orbitting Jupitor. Even if it is just in idle mode.


~Bub

ToSeek
2003-Sep-16, 06:11 PM
I understand that argument very well, madcat. Trouble is, the exact same argument could be used against landing any earth craft on Mars. But we already have done it one Mars. Several times. The concern for contaminating another intraterrestrial ecosystem was not a concern 30 years ago.



Yes, it was. (http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4902/sp4902.htm) (That document was written in 1974 and is based on research going back to 1956.)

All American Mars missions go through decontamination procedures to minimize the risk of "infecting" Mars. I don't know about the Russian missions.

russ_watters
2003-Sep-16, 07:13 PM
But Galileo is not going to hit Jupiter. It's going to burn up in the Jovian atmosphere.

Besides, they didn't want to take a chance on hitting any of those big, black rectangle things. The words "hit" and "atmosphere" are a little ambiguous when dealing with Jupiter since the planet and the atmosphere are the same thing.

tracer
2003-Sep-16, 07:22 PM
They'll probably look at the wreckage of our Mars probes and say "geez, no wonder they're extinct, they can't even land an unmanned probe on a nearby world safely".
Or "geez, no wonder they're extinct, they can't even build one lousy space probe using a consistent system of units. Now let's get back to our space ship, we only have 40 hogsheads of liquid oxygen left and it has to last us 12 fortnights."

Doodler
2003-Sep-16, 07:22 PM
That goes back to the rocky core/gaseous accretion debate, there might be a surface down there. The jury is still out.

Yumblie
2003-Sep-17, 04:54 AM
Even if Jupiter did have a solid surface, anything heading towards it would be fried and squished long before it got anywhere near it.

Kaptain K
2003-Sep-17, 10:32 AM
If Jupiter has a solid core and (probably) a liquid layer, it does not mean that there are distinct surfaces between them. The gas gets denser and denser, until gradually takes on the characteristics of a liquid. The same goes for the transition between liquid and solid.

Orlando
2003-Sep-20, 08:46 AM
Can NASA/JPL delay Galileo hitting
Jupiter, until we study the effects more. This time get the public better informed and involved. I didn't know Galileo had powerful dangerous materials on it, until today...

What if ?..if ?..what many are saying is true, and Jupiter does
become a small sun, then what ???

Kaptain K
2003-Sep-20, 08:58 AM
Can NASA/JPL delay Galileo hitting
Jupiter, until we study the effects more.

No!


This time get the public better informed and involved.


Hell will freeze over before everybody has a college degree in thermodynamics w/ a minor in nuclear physics.


I didn't know Galileo had powerful dangerous materials on it, until today...

It doesn't! Nuclear is not NUKYULAR!


What if ?..if ?..what many are saying is true, and Jupiter does
become a small sun, then what ???

It won't!

Jack Higgins
2003-Sep-20, 09:52 AM
Jupiter, until we study the effects more.
What do you think galileo HAS been doing since 1995?

Nanoda
2003-Sep-20, 10:09 AM
"The public" does not want to be better informed nor to get involved. If you think it's got dangerous materiel on it, take a look at your glow-in-the-dark watch. (Personally, if I were Jupiter, getting hit by a teeny space probe wouldn't even tickle compared the 300 gigatonne smack of Shoemaker Levy 9. And yes I said gigatonne (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc97/pdf/1351.PDF). :o


What IF Jupiter turned into a star? Well, you'd have to read more Arthur C. Clarke to find that out. :P

Jack Higgins
2003-Sep-20, 10:14 AM
If you think it's got dangerous materiel on it, take a look at your glow-in-the-dark watch.
Not to mention your smoke alarm, and your friendly local coal-burning power plant...

rsa
2003-Sep-21, 01:20 PM
I understand that argument very well, madcat. Trouble is, the exact same argument could be used against landing any earth craft on Mars. But we already have done it one Mars. Several times. The concern for contaminating another intraterrestrial ecosystem was not a concern 30 years ago.



Yes, it was. (http://history.nasa.gov/SP-4902/sp4902.htm) (That document was written in 1974 and is based on research going back to 1956.)

All American Mars missions go through decontamination procedures to minimize the risk of "infecting" Mars. I don't know about the Russian missions.
Right.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/966496.asp?0dm=C11MT



NASA typically scrubs its spacecraft clean of microbes to prevent what it calls the “forward contamination” of other places in the solar system. That wasn’t done with Galileo, which NASA originally intended to leave in orbit around Jupiter.

AG-15-Berserker
2003-Sep-21, 02:06 PM
Umm, how much rems does Galileo have? I'm assuming less than 7 from the posts here...

Madcat
2003-Sep-21, 04:52 PM
I wasn't arguing against the exploration of Europa. Hell, I wanna go! :D

They have to be careful, that's all.

Eroica
2003-Sep-23, 09:44 AM
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Russians have discovered a lake beneath the Antarctic icesheet, which has been isolated from the rest of the Earth's ecosystems for millions of years; but they haven't dared send a probe to explore it yet for fear of contaminating whatever life is down there. If we can't explore our own planet yet without running the risk of contamination, it will be a long time before we are ready to explore Europa.

Swift
2003-Sep-23, 03:29 PM
What you have read is true. One place I read about it was an American Scientist article within the last year or so. I believe the Russians have made some efforts to drill close to it, but decided not to drill into it because of contamination. I think there is some joint US/Russian efforts on-going. It is actually looked upon as a test-bed for developing techniques for Europa.

A quick Google and here's a link http://salegos-scar.montana.edu/

Kaptain K
2003-Sep-23, 05:18 PM
One problem on Earth is that biological contaminants are ubiquitous. Even if you sterilize the probe, there is no guarantee that it will stay sterilized. 8)