PDA

View Full Version : The Time War. Dr Who Fans.



bautforum
2008-Jun-04, 12:30 AM
The Time War was never shown on television- it all happened offstage, so to speak. The Doctor has made some references to the events in the programme but no episodes have shown the events in detail. Do you think there will eve3r be a new gallifrey?

jokergirl
2008-Jun-04, 09:13 AM
No. I have the distinct feeling that the Doctor would not let it happen. He's got quite a good sense on what should and should not be.

;)

eburacum45
2008-Jun-04, 10:04 AM
I like to think that the end of Gallifrey was necessary for the well being of the universe.
I am reminded of the Asimov book, the End of Eternity, where a time travelling civilisation eventually collapses because of too much meddling. The Universe doesn't want, or need, a world full of squabbling Time Lords. trying to direct history according to their current consensus.

Matherly
2008-Jun-04, 02:12 PM
I like to think that the end of Gallifrey was necessary for the well being of the universe.
I am reminded of the Asimov book, the End of Eternity, where a time travelling civilisation eventually collapses because of too much meddling. The Universe doesn't want, or need, a world full of squabbling Time Lords. trying to direct history according to their current consensus.

Ironically, this is probibly the exact opposite reason the Doctor often opposed Gallifrey. He was a renegade because he felt the general Time Lord rule of non-interferance was detrimental to the Universe.

captain swoop
2008-Jun-04, 03:27 PM
They canbring back the Time Lords any time they want. Just because the Doc thinks they are gone doesn't mean they are. Remember the Timelords didn't even come into the Dr Who story until well into the 2nd Doctor and the Doc himself didn't go to Gallifrey himself until 'The Deadly Assassin'

People and things have a habit of reappearing in the Docs Universe if the writers come up with a good story.

Jason Thompson
2008-Jun-04, 03:33 PM
People and things have a habit of reappearing in the Docs Universe if the writers come up with a good story.

And sometimes even if they dont (Sontarans in The Invasion Of Time, for example...)

transreality
2008-Jun-05, 01:49 AM
In a time war to defeat the opponent you have to remove them from history completely. I think is what has happed to the gallifreans, the Daleks won; Gallifrey is as if it never was. The Doctor in this regard is a paradox. Now he tries to remove the Daleks from History in revenge, but cannot restore gallifrey.

This is something the cybermen never understood which is they lost their planet.

jokergirl
2008-Jun-05, 08:43 AM
I understand it more like the Daleks could only be eradicated by also eradicating the time lords. Some kind of cause and effect relationship there?
Only the doctor was more efficient in eradicating his own race than the Daleks, which of course opens up the possibility for more lost timelords, or Gallifrey in a parallel dimension somewhere.

;)

transreality
2008-Jun-05, 01:10 PM
The Doctor was sent back to kill the inventor of the daleks before they were invented but he balked at eliminating the daleks from history, considering that a worse crime than any they could perform. How was gallifrey lost? Wasn't their matrix records thing corrupted from within.. it was in those weird episodes?

Paul Beardsley
2008-Jun-05, 01:26 PM
Remember the Timelords didn't even come into the Dr Who story until well into the 2nd Doctor and the Doc himself didn't go to Gallifrey himself until 'The Deadly Assassin'
Minor pedantic point - the first mention of the Time Lords was in the 2nd Doctor's very last (in-sequence) story, The War Games, and he actually went to Gallifrey himself in that story, although it was not named until later.


People and things have a habit of reappearing in the Docs Universe if the writers come up with a good story.
Or even just for the sake of it.

jokergirl
2008-Jun-05, 01:37 PM
Master insinuates in one episode that when the doctor refused, they sent him.
I bet someone in the BBC has that all figured out.

;)

Matherly
2008-Jun-05, 02:14 PM
Well... technically there was another Time Lord (although not called that) in the William Hartnel (First Doctor) years, The Meddling Monk (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meddling_Monk)

captain swoop
2008-Jun-05, 08:53 PM
And there is a Romana out there and Omega. What people are forgetting about the Timelords is they are 'Outside' of Time as was mentioned in a number of stories.

We have already had Cybermen come through from an alternate Universe and from the trailers it looks like Rose is going to do the same. When they are short of a plot I am sure the Timelords will come back.

Jason
2008-Jun-05, 09:10 PM
The Daleks had TARDIS-like time travel too (first seen in "The Chase") - maybe that is how both sides destroyed the other.
If the new show goes on long enough the Time Lords are sure to eventually come back somehow.
And Romana was outside of normal time - she's probably still around.

ToSeek
2008-Jun-05, 09:16 PM
The Daleks had TARDIS-like time travel too (first seen in "The Chase") - maybe that is how both sides destroyed the other.
If the new show goes on long enough the Time Lords are sure to eventually come back somehow.
And Romana was outside of normal time - she's probably still around.

In some versions of the timeline - the novels and the audios, at least - Romana has returned to normal space and become president of Gallifrey. It would be interesting if the series were to pick up on that.

captain swoop
2008-Jun-05, 09:38 PM
Daleks had crude time travel capability in the 'old' Doc if my memory serves me right, as did the Cybermen I think.

Lianachan
2008-Jun-05, 11:28 PM
I'm not a Dr Who fan (especially of the current series!) but do you think there's any chance of any special episodes, or even a film, dedicated to showing the events of the Time Wars? Like, I suppose, the way the Clone Wars mentioned in the original Star Wars were eventually shown (and shown, and shown, and shown, and..)

Paul Beardsley
2008-Jun-06, 09:44 AM
I doubt it will ever happen, Lianachan. I think it's one of those things where they acknowledge that it's never going to live up to expectations.

There was talk a while back of a series of films starring Paul McGann, in which the action is immediately moved away from Earth. Which would be nice, but in the new series the travel element has been reintroduced quite well. No longer does the TARDIS flit between half a dozen locations, beginning and ending at the companion's flat. The casual diversity is very refreshing - Pompeii to alien planet to home to another alien planet to Agatha Christie's house to a particularly cool alien planet. And whereas some of the stories have been a bit lame (think Star Trek filler episode), others have been strong or fun or both.

I've mentioned before that when the most recent Doctor Who story stinks (e.g. Last of the Time Lords), it affects the whole of Doctor Who (i.e. it has always stunk, and always will) whereas a strong, engaging, confident episode (e.g. Human Nature, or the recent Silence in the Library) can make it seem as if Doctor Who has always been wonderful, and always will be.

Does anybody else feel this way?

jokergirl
2008-Jun-06, 08:30 PM
I don't. Haven't yet seen an episode that really stunk.
Mind, I'm a bit behind on the latest season. No spoilers!

;)

Matherly
2008-Jun-06, 09:03 PM
I don't. Haven't yet seen an episode that really stunk.
Mind, I'm a bit behind on the latest season. No spoilers!

;)

I was deeply board with the "Trial of a Timelord"... but since it's been 20 years since that first aired I'll give it a pass.

jokergirl
2008-Jun-07, 08:02 AM
Oh, I was talking about the current series. I downloaded and watched Trial of a Timelord a while ago. I was bored out of my mind.
I hate "Somebody's put on trial for a made-up crime" storylines. And they sooner or later invade every series, adventure game, etc.!

;)

Jason
2008-Jun-07, 03:43 PM
Funny, I thought "Trial of a Time Lord" was a definite improvement over the Sixth Doctor's other adventures.

captain swoop
2008-Jun-07, 08:23 PM
not difficult

Drunk Vegan
2008-Jun-08, 06:28 PM
I'd hate to see Gallifrey restored.. sounds a bit like "jumping the shark" to me.

But with the Doctor having been cloned, all it would take to restore the Time Lord race is for the Doctor's daughter to breed. Then jump ahead in the TARDIS a million years or so and you've got an entire planet of (one-quarter, since the Doctor is half-human) Time Lords.

captain swoop
2008-Jun-08, 07:43 PM
Why would it be 'Jumping the Shark'?
Look at the continuity jumps that have occured in the past.

captain swoop
2008-Jun-08, 08:02 PM
since the Doctor is half-human

Isn't that Spock you are thinking of?

Paul Beardsley
2008-Jun-08, 08:39 PM
not difficult

I thought the first full Colin Baker season was very good. It had a pleasing diversity of stories and locations, and saw the Sixth Doctor fight Cybermen and Daleks, ponder the consequences of his past self being killed, fix the chameleon circuit, meet George Stephenson and H.G. Wells, visit Spain, satirise reality TV before it even existed, visit several alien planets, sabotage someone else's TARDIS, and join forces with his second incarnation and Jamie.

It had its faults but not as many as most seasons.

Whereas the Trial season looked great for the first half minute (that space station opening) then looked rubbish for the remainder. The only reason the sets didn't wobble was because there was nothing to them. The trial framewas taken up with tiresome puns; the companion died, only it turned out she wasn't really dead (even though her survival made no sense in story terms); Bonnie Langford joined; there was a stupid robot in it; it contained some of the worst astronomy combined with one of the lamest surprises ever (this devastated planet is... Earth!), and contained no end of stuff that turned out to be not real.


Isn't that Spock you are thinking of?
Are you pretending you don't remember the TV movie? If so, I can't say I blame you! ;)

captain swoop
2008-Jun-08, 10:26 PM
I haven't seen the TV movie.

jokergirl
2008-Jun-09, 09:25 AM
I'd hate to see Gallifrey restored.. sounds a bit like "jumping the shark" to me.

But with the Doctor having been cloned, all it would take to restore the Time Lord race is for the Doctor's daughter to breed. Then jump ahead in the TARDIS a million years or so and you've got an entire planet of (one-quarter, since the Doctor is half-human) Time Lords.

I personally thought the Doctor's Daughter episode came dangerously close to jumping the shark. But I'm a bit behind on the latest season so I'll wait what comes of it.

Where was it said that the Doctor is half human?

Drunk Vegan
2008-Jun-09, 09:47 AM
I personally thought the Doctor's Daughter episode came dangerously close to jumping the shark. But I'm a bit behind on the latest season so I'll wait what comes of it.

I only think it's a better option than restoring Gallifrey.. not necessarily a good show though. Gallifrey is gone.. erased from existence. Should be allowed to rest in peace.


Where was it said that the Doctor is half human?

In the made-for-TV movie (Doctor Who : The Movie).

I kept expecting this to pop up in the new series as it explains his interest in humanity, but doesn't look like that's ever going to happen.

captain swoop
2008-Jun-09, 07:11 PM
how could he be half human? thatdoesn't even make sense, That would be Jumping the Shark. To my mind the way the resurected the Daleks in Series one was Jumping the Shark.

Paul Beardsley
2008-Jun-09, 08:33 PM
In the made-for-TV movie (Doctor Who : The Movie).

I kept expecting this to pop up in the new series as it explains his interest in humanity, but doesn't look like that's ever going to happen.
I think the production team agreed it was such a useless idea that they decided not to pursue it.

Jason
2008-Jun-09, 08:34 PM
The fans edited it out of existence with their utter contempt for the idea.

Jim
2008-Jun-09, 09:26 PM
Huh.

Could we do that with Jar Jar Binks?

Jim
2008-Jun-09, 09:27 PM
The Doctor's Daughter played very much like an attempt at a spin-off. Does anyone know anything about this? Or am I getting too suspicious in my... uh... later youth?

Matherly
2008-Jun-09, 09:34 PM
The Doctor's Daughter played very much like an attempt at a spin-off. Does anyone know anything about this? Or am I getting too suspicious in my... uh... later youth?

I thought the same thing, although my wife suspected she would just be a reoccuring character.

Jason
2008-Jun-09, 09:55 PM
They've already got two spin-offs of the new series. Why would they want yet another?

Matherly
2008-Jun-09, 10:02 PM
They've already got two spin-offs of the new series. Why would they want yet another?

Daleks gotta eat?

captain swoop
2008-Jun-09, 10:30 PM
I thought the same thing. It all makes more

NorthGuy
2008-Jun-10, 12:26 AM
The Doctor's Daughter played very much like an attempt at a spin-off. Does anyone know anything about this? Or am I getting too suspicious in my... uh... later youth?

If Torchwood is coming back for another season, I half expect her to show up there. They need someone to replace the regulars they just killed off. One the other hand, the dead characters never seem to stay dead on that program...

captain swoop
2008-Jun-10, 10:00 AM
They have done it in other Sci Fi shows butt hey usualy do it with some kind of Clone, replica or double from an 'alternate' universe.

To acutaly kill off and then bring the cast back to life is bad enough but making your leading man Immortal is a total cop out, how can there ever be any peril?

Jason Thompson
2008-Jun-10, 10:21 AM
how could he be half human? thatdoesn't even make sense,

Er, why not? There is nothing in the series about Gallifreyan mating, so how do you know he can't be half human? It's a crap idea, I agree, but there's nothing in the series that says it can't happen.

Jason Thompson
2008-Jun-10, 10:23 AM
To acutaly kill off and then bring the cast back to life is bad enough but making your leading man Immortal is a total cop out, how can there ever be any peril?

How about because Torchwood is an ensemble cast and, as we had demonstrated already, the rest of them are not immortal. There's also peril to the inhabitants of Earth (or at least Cardiff), and so on.

jokergirl
2008-Jun-10, 10:28 AM
The only reason Torchwood gets viewers is because a thousand geek girls want to see hot guys kissing on TV.

(What? I'm not saying that's a bad thing!)

;)

Paul Beardsley
2008-Jun-10, 10:46 AM
The only reason Torchwood gets viewers is because a thousand geek girls want to see hot guys kissing on TV.

(What? I'm not saying that's a bad thing!)

;)

Aha! So now we know!

Incidentally, I started a new teaching course, and I've been giving lifts to a fellow trainee teacher - a lady who regularly appears as an extra in Torchwood (and the occasional Doctor Who episode).

It's been my life's ambition to be "third angry villager" in Doctor Who or something of its ilk. According to my passenger, you have to be prepared to travel to be an extra. Maybe one day...

captain swoop
2008-Jun-10, 11:45 AM
I worked with a guy who used to pedal a Dalek back in the early 80s when he worked at the BBC. Well, that wasn't his main job obviously otherwise he would have spent a lot of time just sitting around.

Paul Beardsley
2008-Sep-13, 10:31 PM
Incidentally, I started a new teaching course, and I've been giving lifts to a fellow trainee teacher - a lady who regularly appears as an extra in Torchwood (and the occasional Doctor Who episode).
I am now working at the same place as this lady. Last week she told me she had the call to go to Cardiff to be an extra in the new series of Torchwood.

Happily, whereas I am genuinely impressed and pleased for her that she appears in the programme, I do not have to pretend to like or admire Torchwood. I certainly do not.