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veledan
2008-Jun-04, 09:59 PM
Hi all. I just heard in the latest episode that several attempts to create a Wikipedia article for Astronomy Cast fell foul of Wikipedia's deletion process on grounds of advertising. Can anyone give links to the AFD (Article for Deletion) discussions? I can't find anything relevant in the archives.

There is a current article (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomy_Cast). I'll work on updating that with some info from this site over the next day or two, and keep an eye out for any AFD proposals. Wikipedia does have a problem with link spamming and vanity articles but Astronomy Cast does have claim to Notability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Note) in its success (currently iTunes #1 Natural Sciences podcast) and in the number of listeners. To survive the AFD process the claims to notability need to be established in the article -- if anyone knows of any external media coverage of Astronomy Cast, please add the details either to the article, or to this thread (and I'll add it to the article), and the case for the article will be made.

dcolanduno_old
2008-Jun-05, 11:55 AM
We at Skepticality had to deal with this, over, and over, and over, again as well. Heck, I haven't looked to see if those Wiki people haven't just nuked our entry AGAIN as I type this.

Going through that process is painful and there is no silver bullet or good way to ensure an entry gets in or stays. The whole thing made me REALLY wonder why people love Wikipedia so much when even REAL information can be blatantly removed for... no reason that makes any form of common sense. <sigh>

parallaxicality
2008-Jun-05, 03:17 PM
The worst part is that Wikipedia's article on lightsaber combat (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightsaber_combat) has successfully survived four deletion attempts, thanks to the efforts of Star Wars fanboys.

veledan
2008-Jun-05, 06:44 PM
I used to work on Wikipedia's AFD page, monitoring new page feeds and listing (genuinely inappropriate) articles for deletion so I've had some experience of the process. If there have been no AFD discussions (and I can't find any) that must mean the first few attempts at the page met the speedy deletion criteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Csd). There are two ways that would likely have happened: either an over-zealous admin took the article to be blatant advertising/promotion, or the article made no claim to notability (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Note), i.e. it didn't make obvious the reason why this podcast stands out from the many and deserves an encyclopedia entry.

Let's get those claims to notability in the article -- I reckon they're sufficient -- and I'll be quite happy to go through the Deletion Review process to get the article resurrected in the event it gets speedied again. Even if someone did want to get rid of it once notability has been claimed, it will be far more likely to go through the slower AFD process, where we get to debate the deletion proposal, than to be speedy deleted again.

On that note, what does the current listener / downloader count stand at? And if anyone can find any reviews or mentions of Astronomy Cast in the media, especially mainstream or academic, that would help a lot.

Alchemist312
2008-Jun-06, 01:59 AM
Phew, I was worried right before I started making the article when I saw all the other speedy deletions. Fraser told me not to publish the article until I had something solid. It's hard to believe that all I started with was a miniscule paragraph in the middle of the night and then little by little I put up the first few episodes. After I made it up to episode #41 other fans started to pitch in and made it into a nice article. I wonder if we can put the Astronomy Cast logo in the little side box or above it or is that not "public domain" ? I'll have to check out this article on lightsaber dueling.

parallaxicality
2008-Jun-06, 07:06 AM
(currently iTunes #1 Natural Sciences podcast)

If you could find the page on iTunes that mentions this, you could google the words and locate a cached version, which would give you a link you could use as a source, which would instantly make the article notable.

Fraser
2008-Jun-07, 10:01 PM
We got 200,000 downloads in May. I'm guessing we have about 30,000 listeners.

abo999
2008-Jun-11, 10:24 PM
I've now split the Wikipedia entry over four pages (Violentbob on Wikipedia) so with any luck it might make the deleters think twice? It's been there a few days now so hopefully it may stay there...

And hello! Long time listener, first time poster... :p

magicindark
2008-Jun-25, 05:36 PM
You know, I have just recently encountered the Astronomy Cast Wikipedia article as I am "random-articling" through the site. (Yes, I do that. :rolleyes:) I have been a frequent visitor of Wikipedia and I have been creating and indexing astronomy-related articles for a while now since I am both a self-declared techie and an astronomy lover.

Having noticed the page's extensive history of speedy deletions, I decided to make some additions and modifications, and I attempted to do so in as object a manner as objective as possible since, well, I am not personally involved with or listening to the podcast before then. (But I'm definitely going to start now if anything. :lol:)

So I did my research, planned out the structure, but when it seriously got down to the issue of neutrality, I found it increasingly difficult not to make the article sound like a promotion as I grew familiar with the podcast series. I resisted using words that are highly well connoted and added some evidence as to support the show's notability.

At any rate, at this point in the article's life, it is unlikely it will be marked for deletion, but for assurance, I would suggest that there be a hard copy of the article off Wikipedia so that should the article be deleted we will have something to work with. Everyone is free to contribute so if anyone has information that helps build the article please do so.

tdvance
2008-Jun-25, 06:08 PM
I just added the what is somewhat standard "podcasting" footer bar. I recommend checking the "WP:PODCASTING" article for info on podcasting articles.

Currently, it seems the only "notability" requirements are, those in WP:WEB, and a reminder that 3rd party references to notability are required, not just primary.

sabianq
2008-Jun-25, 06:58 PM
sounds like its time to start a site called "The WikiWars"