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WolfKC
2003-Sep-26, 06:05 AM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception?
What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives? (actually hurts them in some way)
Who's the biggest lie spreader of all history?
Let's make sure to stay away from religion on these.

Humphrey
2003-Sep-26, 06:19 AM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception?

In my opinion? That the ties on the opposite side of the moon are because of the pull of the sun.



What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives? (actually hurts them in some way)


Very hard one. In my opinion it is the belief that technological prowess=greater culture. Meaning that the place that is the most technologically advanced is also the most cumturally advanced. I cannot state this more emphatically, this is not true!

This could hurt people because it could lead to bigotry, a feeling of superiority where there is none.

"Hey i my country has guns, you don't. Our country is more superior to yours, i want your people to be like mine, lets wrassel!" (Not a political thing, just an example)



Who's the biggest lie spreader of all history?



Definitely not nancey. She has not reached that many people.

Now are we talking about shear number of people who have heared the lie, or who believe in the lie?

For shear number of people who have heared the lie, i would venture a good guess at the fox moon hoax show producers. They have reached alot of people. Most probobly don't believe it, but it was seen.

Or the John Edwards Psychics. Hahaha, if they can talk to the dead, Houdini really did have magic. (ten points to anyone who can relate those two sentances)

For number of people beleiving in their b.s.? I'd also have to go for the moon hoax guys. They have alot more believers in conspiracy and hoaxes than nancy does.

Or possibly the Area 51 alien b elievers, there are alot of them, but none have a consistent story, so it is hard to track down a solid lie.

John Jones
2003-Sep-26, 06:46 AM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception?



I'm not sure if this counts, but the widely-held belief that everyone thought the earth was flat until <some nonsense about Columbus>.

Was it Eristothanes(sp)? who calculated the circumference of the earth based on actual measurements about 300 BC?

Feel free to correct my many errors, but I think I got the basic facts approximately correct.

2003-Sep-26, 09:23 AM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception?
What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives? (actually hurts them in some way)
Who's the biggest lie spreader of all history?
Let's make sure to stay away from religion on these.

Possible candidates for item 1:
- the moon does not rotate on its axis
- the sky is blue because it reflects the water on earth
- phases of the moon are caused by the shadow of the earth

Item 2:
- wearing a seatbelt is dangerous because you might get caught in case of a fire or water plunge

Item 3:
- an unending list of political "leaders"

Dragonlor
2003-Sep-26, 09:40 AM
- the sky is blue because it reflects the water on earth

I love people who think that. In their logic, water is blue. It's funny. Any goober should know that water is clear unless it's polluted.

2003-Sep-26, 12:10 PM
- the sky is blue because it reflects the water on earth

I love people who think that. In their logic, water is blue. It's funny. Any goober should know that water is clear unless it's polluted.

A significant number (about 25%) of my students in a university astronomy course (taken by students to satisfy a general science elective) believe one of these three as shown by my start of semester survey.

Humphrey
2003-Sep-26, 01:58 PM
- the sky is blue because it reflects the water on earth

I love people who think that. In their logic, water is blue. It's funny. Any goober should know that water is clear unless it's polluted.

A significant number (about 25%) of my students in a university astronomy course (taken by students to satisfy a general science elective) believe one of these three as shown by my start of semester survey.

I believe you. I have taken a few astronomy classes at UF (actualy i'm still here). In one class we had similar situations. The instructor i think was Dr. Leacock (very funny and sarcastic guy if it is the guy i am remebering right) for Life in the Universe last spring. (I am horrible at names. I'll check my notebook later today to make sure)

Some of the people in class were amazing at some of the most basic stuff they did not know.

The profeessor had to repeat the correct order of the planets several times. For college stufents in the best college in the state, i ma surprised they didn't learn this simple fact in high school. We were required to in public school in Jacksonville, FL so i assume they did.

I can't remeber the others. I will have to skim my notes to see if any remind me of anything.

mr. show
2003-Sep-26, 03:16 PM
i'd say the most widely believed misconception is that space is a vacuum

nanojath
2003-Sep-26, 04:18 PM
Of course, the problem with this is that anything that might be an accurate answer is going to be very, very controversial.

For instance, I would say

What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives? (actually hurts them in some way)

In my mind, unquestionably, that war is a necessary part of human society. But of course a huge argument could be had on the subject. The tricky trick of war is that it propagates itself. Was WWII a "just" war? Maybe, but does that mean it was necessary? Unpreventable?

ignorant_ape
2003-Sep-26, 04:37 PM
most widley held misconceptions in astronomy :

1 - "the dark side of the moon " as i tell anyone foolish enough to listen - its the fooking far side , only pink floyd are immune from my scorn on this issue :-)

2 - space is a vaccum / space is black

[ appologies to the guy who said ` space is a vaccum ` first ]

3 - vectors / momentum / inertia , thanks to sci fi films - the public now believe that a space craft manouvers just like a craft in earths atmosphere


the biggest lies [ snarls because religion baiting was barred by the topic starter ]

1 the cheque is in the post

2 i will not *** in your mouth

but being serious

3 - ` the protocols of the elders of zion `

4 - holocaust denial

i appologise for the OT nature of the last two but they gnaw at my mind every time i hear them mentioned as " facts"

please dont relply to these two on board - ` BA` will not be amused - but if you want to take it to a more sutible forum so be it


YRS - APE

ZappBrannigan
2003-Sep-26, 08:25 PM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception?
Earth is the center of the universe. Wrong. Hollywood is the center of the universe.


What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives? (actually hurts them in some way)
We only use 10% of our brains. Wrong, which is very bad news for most people.


Who's the biggest lie spreader of all history?
Hey, gotta go with Hitler for that one. Nobody else even comes close. (Darn. Can't think of a humorous, non-cring-inducing Hitler joke.)

Jigsaw
2003-Sep-26, 08:48 PM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception?
A surprisingly large number of people don't realize that you can see the moon during the daytime. They think it's only out at "night", and when they see it during the day, they're amazed.

A lot of people believe that you could see the American flag on the moon through a telescope, if you had a telescope.

A stunningly huge number of people don't realize just how many observatories there are out there, that there's probably a actual observatory in their own home town. They think observatories are huge, fancy, expensive undertakings that require government funding, and that they exist only in far-away places, like Mauna Loa or Mt. Wilson. But the truth is that virtually every college and university, no matter how small, has an observatory of some kind, and with a serious telescope, too. And that's not to mention all the total Astronomy Geeks and local astronomy clubs, with actual observatories and serious telescopes of their own, out there watching the skies...

Superluminal
2003-Sep-26, 10:42 PM
People who don't realize the moon and planets change positions from night to night. During the recent Mars approach I would hear people saying, "Mars is easy to find, its just under the moon." But that was two week old information.

Archer17
2003-Sep-27, 01:05 AM
Astronomy: The mistaken belief one can see stars from down in a well or up a steep chimney in daylight, but .. a lot of people don't know you can see Venus in the daytime if conditions are right.

Humphrey
2003-Sep-27, 01:19 AM
Astronomy: The mistaken belief one can see stars from down in a well or up a steep chimney in daylight, but .. a lot of people don't know you can see Venus in the daytime if conditions are right.

Ah! but you can see a full moon anytime. :-P

Archer17
2003-Sep-27, 01:25 AM
Astronomy: The mistaken belief one can see stars from down in a well or up a steep chimney in daylight, but .. a lot of people don't know you can see Venus in the daytime if conditions are right.

Ah! but you can see a full moon anytime. :-PYes you can. Mr soon-to-be-hitched Humphrey. Had to say that :D

Humphrey
2003-Sep-27, 01:33 AM
Yes you can. Mr soon-to-be-hitched Humphrey. Had to say that :D

Hitched? Bah! Chained with adamantium metal clasps and vacume welded steel plates oer the keyholes.

Archer17
2003-Sep-27, 02:34 AM
Yes you can. Mr soon-to-be-hitched Humphrey. Had to say that :D

Hitched? Bah! Chained with adamantium metal clasps and vacume welded steel plates oer the keyholes. :o ...gotta love this board! .. :P

Reacher
2003-Sep-27, 01:34 PM
I thought that the cycles of the moon were caused by the Earth's shadow! What? What causes it, if not the shadow of Earth?

Gmann
2003-Sep-27, 02:01 PM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception

Phil Plait is a 'good Astronomer'...not true...he is a 'Bad Astronomer' 8)


What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives

Ignorant Ape stole my thunder (the check is in the mail) #-o


Who's the biggest lie spreader of all history

The guy who came up with the 'check is in the mail' thing. [-X

swansont
2003-Sep-27, 02:17 PM
i'd say the most widely believed misconception is that space is a vacuum

By what semantics is space not a vacuum?

Dickenmeyer
2003-Sep-27, 02:32 PM
I thought that the cycles of the moon were caused by the Earth's shadow! What? What causes it, if not the shadow of Earth?
A lunar eclipse is caused by the shadow of the Earth. The lunar phases are caused by the shadow of the Moon itself.
Big Misconception? That there is no "Dark Side" of the Moon.
The far side of the moon is NOT the dark side(except when the Moon is full) as many people seem to think, but half the moon is in darkness all the time, just like Earth. It's called "night".

Klausnh
2003-Sep-27, 03:11 PM
What's the biggest most widely belived astronomy misconception?

I just heard this again on the History channel and it's on a China travel guide site (http://www.travelchinaguide.com/china_great_wall/):
That the Great Wall of China can be seen from the moon.

parejkoj
2003-Sep-27, 03:17 PM
i'd say the most widely believed misconception is that space is a vacuum

By what semantics is space not a vacuum?


From www.dictionary.com:


vac·u·um, n. pl. vac·u·ums or vac·u·a

1.[list:dfecbd13b4]
a. Absence of matter.
b. A space empty of matter.
c. A space relatively empty of matter.
d. A space in which the pressure is significantly lower than atmospheric pressure.

2. A state of emptiness; a void.
3. A state of being sealed off from external or environmental influences; isolation.
4. pl. vac·uums A vacuum cleaner.
[/list:u:dfecbd13b4]


By 1a, 1b and 2, it is not a vacuum: the density of the interstellar medium is a few particles per cubic centimeter, the density of gas in our solar system is about a hundred particles per cubic centimeter. Of course, 1c and 1d will fit, but those are probably there because of common usage (i.e. a vacuum cleaner isn't even remotely a vacuum (1b)).

BoredHugeKrill
2003-Sep-27, 04:27 PM
What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives? (actually hurts them in some way)

surprised nobody has mentioned astrology...

the proportion of people who actually believe in astrological predictions is alarming, to say the least - and this is pervasive throughout the world. In many countries, you'll find daily horoscopes published in mainstream newspapers.

This, I believe, is the root and trunk of which all other astro-bunk are the branches

Krill

swansont
2003-Sep-27, 04:34 PM
i'd say the most widely believed misconception is that space is a vacuum

By what semantics is space not a vacuum?


From www.dictionary.com:


vac·u·um, n. pl. vac·u·ums or vac·u·a

1.[list:e7d089acbd]
a. Absence of matter.
b. A space empty of matter.
c. A space relatively empty of matter.
d. A space in which the pressure is significantly lower than atmospheric pressure.

2. A state of emptiness; a void.
3. A state of being sealed off from external or environmental influences; isolation.
4. pl. vac·uums A vacuum cleaner.
[/list:u:e7d089acbd]


By 1a, 1b and 2, it is not a vacuum: the density of the interstellar medium is a few particles per cubic centimeter, the density of gas in our solar system is about a hundred particles per cubic centimeter. Of course, 1c and 1d will fit, but those are probably there because of common usage (i.e. a vacuum cleaner isn't even remotely a vacuum (1b)).

In common science parlance, the definition is 1d. The misconception isn't so much that space is a vacuum, but that a vacuum must be completely empty.

WolfKC
2003-Sep-27, 04:44 PM
So what kind of pressure is there say half way between earth and the moon. Is it like so low that the partacles in a cubic meter can be counted on one hand? If so, that's a pretty strong vacuume.

Andreas
2003-Sep-27, 06:20 PM
So what kind of pressure is there say half way between earth and the moon. Is it like so low that the partacles in a cubic meter can be counted on one hand? If so, that's a pretty strong vacuume.

From http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/medium.html: "The temperature of the interplanetary medium is about 100,000 K. Its density is about 5 particles/cm3 near the Earth and decreases by an inverse square law farther from the Sun. However, the density is highly variable, it can be as much as 100 particles/cm3."

So, about 5 million particles per cubic meter near Earth.

WolfKC
2003-Sep-27, 06:25 PM
So what kind of pressure is there say half way between earth and the moon. Is it like so low that the partacles in a cubic meter can be counted on one hand? If so, that's a pretty strong vacuume.

From http://seds.lpl.arizona.edu/nineplanets/nineplanets/medium.html: "The temperature of the interplanetary medium is about 100,000 K. Its density is about 5 particles/cm3 near the Earth and decreases by an inverse square law farther from the Sun. However, the density is highly variable, it can be as much as 100 particles/cm3."

So, about 5 million particles per cubic meter near Earth.
Well that really sucks! :o :lol:

Madcat
2003-Sep-27, 07:52 PM
The Universe doesn't suck; it blows. Hey, there's another misconception! :)

Humphrey
2003-Sep-27, 08:10 PM
I don't consider Astrology harmful to most people. Just some believe in it for some reason.

I cann't see many people commiting mass suiciide bacuse their chart says Mars is nearing Jupiter in the sky.



------

Another stupid misconception:

While not dangerous, just stupid: Spring water is better than distilled water.

Spring water is not pure, distilled water by its very nature of the process of how it is made is pure.

----

A very dangerous misconception: "Natural" substances are better for you.

My question: Mushrooms are natural, snake venom is natural, mercury is natural. You feel good abouteating that?

wwonka
2003-Sep-27, 11:12 PM
water isn't blue..????? hah- you fools!

when i go down the supermarket aisle and look at all the spring waters -they are blue.. what more proof do you need?

WWonka
(Head of Research, Troubled Times Inc.)

beskeptical
2003-Sep-28, 05:54 AM
....Let's make sure to stay away from religion on these.Does that mean I can bring up politics? :wink:

If you don't mean religion or politics, then the next biggest lie would be in marketing. How about all the fools who think a McDonald's hamburger is decent food? :lol:

Biggest non-astronomy misconception: You catch a cold from being out in bad weather. And, no, it doesn't weaken your immune system leaving you more vulnerable either. :roll:

BTW it's spelled vacuum. There are 3 or 4 different spellings of vacuum on this thread. Silly people. :P

decarmony
2003-Sep-28, 06:18 AM
not speaking for or against religion,but when you look at the fact that half the world believes in creation and the other half don"t, it does produce the biggest belivable lie there is and will continue to be believed.This should win the title because it dosent matter which side is right to satisfy this particular question.

WolfKC
2003-Sep-28, 06:34 AM
not speaking for or against religion,but when you look at the fact that half the world believes in creation and the other half don"t, it does produce the biggest belivable lie there is and will continue to be believed.This should win the title because it dosent matter which side is right to satisfy this particular question.
Sorry you dont win the prize, I put a disclaimer in
Let's make sure to stay away from religion on these. :P

AK
2003-Sep-28, 06:41 AM
"The temperature of the interplanetary medium is about 100,000 K.

Is that right? Seems illogical. Wouldn't that be hot enough to instantly melt and/or vaporize any man-made object we were to send out?

Stylesjl
2003-Sep-28, 08:23 AM
Biggest non-astronomy misconception: You catch a cold from being out in bad weather. And, no, it doesn't weaken your immune system leaving you more vulnerable either. :roll:


But in cold wheather your body reserves more energy to fight the decrease in tempreature so it can take energy from the immune system

Bacteria certainly does not thrive in cold wheather but it can take advantage of the body's weakness and enter where there is warmth

Beezle
2003-Sep-28, 11:09 AM
i'd say the most widely believed misconception is that space is a vacuum

Or that there is no gravity in space.

swansont
2003-Sep-28, 11:10 AM
"The temperature of the interplanetary medium is about 100,000 K.

Is that right? Seems illogical. Wouldn't that be hot enough to instantly melt and/or vaporize any man-made object we were to send out?

The particles may have a lot of energy, but there aren't very many of them.

2003-Sep-28, 11:26 AM
"The temperature of the interplanetary medium is about 100,000 K.

Is that right? Seems illogical. Wouldn't that be hot enough to instantly melt and/or vaporize any man-made object we were to send out?

Its the difference between temperature (proportional to the average speed of the particles) and heat content ... at 5 particles/cc very little energy can be transfered to an object. Compare putting your hand into an 400 degree F oven for 2 seconds and putting your hand into a 212 degree F pot of boiling water for the same period.

zwi
2003-Sep-28, 10:05 PM
Originally posted


What's the most believed falsehood that directly affects peoples lives? (actually hurts them in some way)
Who's the biggest lie spreader of all history?


Without a doubt the most lethal construct of the human mind is monotheism

Zwi

Madcat
2003-Sep-29, 12:25 AM
That and the various forms of traditional medicine. Ever heard of cupping? :x

zwi
2003-Sep-29, 01:55 AM
That and the various forms of traditional medicine. Ever heard of cupping?

Cupping is the application to the skin of little cups that have been heated.

Heat expels some air so the hot cup has a small vacuum.
It adheres to the skin and raises a bump.

The hot rim of the cup may or may not leave a red ring.

There is an old Yiddish expression which when translated means

it will help like cupping would a dead person.

Cupping was however completely harmless. It took an old woman about a half an hour to apply and they thought it did some good.

OTOH if you are talking about bleeding or leeching, let me know and I will tell you of it also

Zwi

The Supreme Canuck
2003-Sep-29, 01:58 AM
Well leaches still have uses. Like draining fluid when reattaching a finger.

beskeptical
2003-Sep-29, 08:27 AM
Biggest non-astronomy misconception: You catch a cold from being out in bad weather. And, no, it doesn't weaken your immune system leaving you more vulnerable either. :roll:


But in cold wheather your body reserves more energy to fight the decrease in tempreature so it can take energy from the immune system

Bacteria certainly does not thrive in cold wheather but it can take advantage of the body's weakness and enter where there is warmthWrong and wrong, sorry.

First, the concept of your body's use of energy to keep warm somehow taking away energy from your immune response is not correct. The only exception to this would be if you had an infection in an extremity, severe cold could decrease blood flow to the site thereby inhibiting the body's ability to send antibodies and immune system cells to the location. Otherwise, your body is perfectly cabable of multi-tasking. We'd be in serious trouble if it wasn't.

And, multiple studies have been carried out to see if adverse climate had any impact on systemic, (whole body), infections and it does not.

As to the bacteria not thriving in cold weather, bacteria thrive in ice so they certainly thrive in cold weather. And, viruses cause many of our winter infections.

So what really happens to cause more illness in the winter? Two things, we are indoors more and share more air space with eachother allowing for easier transmission of infections. And, the kids all go back to school. The few kids who were sick now spread their diseases to many. The kids go home and spread the diseases to the members of their household. The working adults then go to work and spread their kid's diseases to their co-workers, and so it goes until each new infection runs its community course.

beskeptical
2003-Sep-29, 08:32 AM
Well leaches still have uses. Like draining fluid when reattaching a finger.Oh I'm in such a nitpicky mood, I'm going to get a nerd reputation. :P

The leeches excrete an anti-coagulant and stimulate blood flow. When the body part is reattached, the leeches can increase blood flow during the critical time before good bloodflow is reestablished.

Maggots are used to eat dead tissue and keep a wound clean, in case anyone was wondering. :P

swansont
2003-Sep-29, 10:19 AM
So what really happens to cause more illness in the winter? Two things, we are indoors more and share more air space with eachother allowing for easier transmission of infections. And, the kids all go back to school. The few kids who were sick now spread their diseases to many. The kids go home and spread the diseases to the members of their household. The working adults then go to work and spread their kid's diseases to their co-workers, and so it goes until each new infection runs its community course.

And, for good measure, we schedule vacations every few months so we can send people to different places, pick up new diseases, and start the dance all over again.

TriangleMan
2003-Sep-29, 11:12 AM
Maggots are used to eat dead tissue and keep a wound clean, in case anyone was wondering. :P

I saw a documentary on that! A few doctors in Britain are using it on patients as a treatment to remove dead tissue without having to resort to amputation. The doctors in the documentary appeared positive about the results. I'm not sure how thrilled the patients were at first.

WolfKC
2003-Sep-29, 01:22 PM
Maggots are used to eat dead tissue and keep a wound clean, in case anyone was wondering. :P

I saw a documentary on that! A few doctors in Britain are using it on patients as a treatment to remove dead tissue without having to resort to amputation. The doctors in the documentary appeared positive about the results. I'm not sure how thrilled the patients were at first.
Makes me think of that James Bond film where he had to hide in a vat of maggots.
What's for lunch? :)

foxd
2003-Sep-29, 02:17 PM
1) There's all this evidence!
2) We will do this!
3) You haven't heard the last from me!
4) It'll work!
5) After all, what could go wrong?
6) That's the ticket!
7) My word is my bond!
8) I am not a crook!

Sigma_Orionis
2003-Sep-29, 02:37 PM
The most believed lie in the world?

"This is a plot concocted by my political enemies to discredit me!" :lol:

The Supreme Canuck
2003-Sep-29, 08:01 PM
Well leaches still have uses. Like draining fluid when reattaching a finger.Oh I'm in such a nitpicky mood, I'm going to get a nerd reputation. :P

The leeches excrete an anti-coagulant and stimulate blood flow. When the body part is reattached, the leeches can increase blood flow during the critical time before good bloodflow is reestablished.

Maggots are used to eat dead tissue and keep a wound clean, in case anyone was wondering. :P

Whoops. Right. My fault on that one. :wink:

Madcat
2003-Sep-29, 08:08 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
That and the various forms of traditional medicine. Ever heard of cupping?


Cupping is the application to the skin of little cups that have been heated.

Heat expels some air so the hot cup has a small vacuum.
It adheres to the skin and raises a bump.

The hot rim of the cup may or may not leave a red ring.

There is an old Yiddish expression which when translated means

it will help like cupping would a dead person.

Cupping was however completely harmless. It took an old woman about a half an hour to apply and they thought it did some good.

OTOH if you are talking about bleeding or leeching, let me know and I will tell you of it also

I am talking about quackery in general, though you're quite right that medicinal leeches actually work just fine for certain things. Bleeding is usually pretty dumb.

Cupping though, can be QUITE harmful. It can cause severe burns that leave awful scars. If those burns get infected, it can KILL you.

TriangleMan
2003-Sep-29, 08:45 PM
Most believed lie . . .

I'll go with "The more you spend, the more you save." (That one drives me nuts every time I hear it in a commercial) :evil:

beskeptical
2003-Sep-29, 09:43 PM
....Cupping though, can be QUITE harmful. It can cause severe burns that leave awful scars. If those burns get infected, it can KILL you.I had a Vietnamese toddler patient once who had scars all over his back from cupping. Regardless of intent, it still constitutes child abuse in my book. Not that the parents should go to jail, but it shouldn't be viewed as a merely a quaint cultural practice.

Stylesjl
2003-Sep-29, 11:34 PM
Biggest non-astronomy misconception: You catch a cold from being out in bad weather. And, no, it doesn't weaken your immune system leaving you more vulnerable either. :roll:


But in cold wheather your body reserves more energy to fight the decrease in tempreature so it can take energy from the immune system

Bacteria certainly does not thrive in cold wheather but it can take advantage of the body's weakness and enter where there is warmthWrong and wrong, sorry.

First, the concept of your body's use of energy to keep warm somehow taking away energy from your immune response is not correct. The only exception to this would be if you had an infection in an extremity, severe cold could decrease blood flow to the site thereby inhibiting the body's ability to send antibodies and immune system cells to the location. Otherwise, your body is perfectly cabable of multi-tasking. We'd be in serious trouble if it wasn't.

And, multiple studies have been carried out to see if adverse climate had any impact on systemic, (whole body), infections and it does not.

As to the bacteria not thriving in cold weather, bacteria thrive in ice so they certainly thrive in cold weather. And, viruses cause many of our winter infections.

So what really happens to cause more illness in the winter? Two things, we are indoors more and share more air space with eachother allowing for easier transmission of infections. And, the kids all go back to school. The few kids who were sick now spread their diseases to many. The kids go home and spread the diseases to the members of their household. The working adults then go to work and spread their kid's diseases to their co-workers, and so it goes until each new infection runs its community course.

1) I belive you with number one (i can't back it up, and you have convinced me)
2) Then how come in fridges bacteria doesn't make our milk sour?
3) Hmmm your right but i have certain doubts about part of the theroy*

*=I'll provide an explanation of what i mean later

zwi
2003-Sep-30, 02:59 AM
Besceptical wrote
I had a Vietnamese toddler patient once who had scars all over his back from cupping. Regardless of intent, it still constitutes child abuse in my book

If you have modern medicine availiable well, yes

But for most of the time in all the world and today in Africa & Asia there was nothing but such remedies.

Many things were tried and left scars Benefit was fortuitous and psychological. But you cannot call it abuse, only ignorance

I remember working in Africa long long ago where I saw a woman who spoke no language in common with any of us. She had come in desperation to see the white doctor. She had scars on both groins just above the fold.

Did you guess she was not falling pregnant? I did. Sterility is unacceptable in that cultures women.

Pelvic was normal, but we got her tubes insufflated.

Her smiles and big belly next year told us we had hit the spot

The nganga or witchdoctor had applied his muti and scarified it. The nganga had tried his best.

beskeptical
2003-Sep-30, 07:43 AM
Besceptical wrote
I had a Vietnamese toddler patient once who had scars all over his back from cupping. Regardless of intent, it still constitutes child abuse in my book

If you have modern medicine availiable well, yes

But for most of the time in all the world and today in Africa & Asia there was nothing but such remedies.
........Probably would take another thread to discuss this topic. I wasn't trying to condemn the ignorance, just condemn the automatic acceptance of cultural practices just because it's pc to do so. You probably couldn't guess from my post that I am very empathetic and sensitive to cross cultural issues.

beskeptical
2003-Sep-30, 07:57 AM
..........1) I belive you with number one (i can't back it up, and you have convinced me)Hooray!! :D

2) Then how come in fridges bacteria doesn't make our milk sour?Well, you are looking at apples and oranges. Bacteria and viruses that cause illness are not out and about in good weather and looking for a host to keep warm in in bad weather.

All infectious diseases are not spread through the outdoor environment. In fact most are not. The infections we attribute to winter weather are passed from person to person on hands, surfaces hands touch, sharing saliva, and other contaminated things that find their way to our nose or mouth.

Some infections are also airborne. But airborne diseases don't spread well outdoors. They have to get from person to person in the dose it takes for that organism. For some, like influenza, brief encounters such as on a bus or in the grocery store might be enough. For others like Tuberculosis, you have to be around someone for hours in the same room or shared airspace to get it.

So if you camped outdoors all winter and didn't have anyone else in your tent, you'd get sick much less often, not more often.


3) Hmmm your right but i have certain doubts about part of the theroy*

*=I'll provide an explanation of what i mean laterI shall await your explanation. Happy to be of service. :D

Stylesjl
2003-Sep-30, 10:03 AM
1)
2) I see what you mean......

3)
Look it my explanation might be a little ummm whats that word because i've just ran around the block, lost at warcraft 2, and have had loads of frustration


A) If the kids were infected some would stay home due to high infection,

okay many are left over but that slows the process slightly and makes it less servere

then you got people who know of the dangers and some keep away which also eliminates some

B) When diseases fly around they get weaker in air and by the fighting immune system

So i think that your theroy might only be a third of what causes greater illnesses in winter i still agree with it but just think in reality it is only a small to medium cause of illnesses (WARNING INFINITE LOOP!)

beskeptical
2003-Sep-30, 08:28 PM
....3)
A) If the kids were infected some would stay home due to high infection,

okay many are left over but that slows the process slightly and makes it less servere

then you got people who know of the dangers and some keep away which also eliminates someTrouble is the incubation period and the timing of infectiousness vary. So a person could spread a disease before their symptoms begin and after their symptoms subside depending on the infection.

Also, a surface contaminated by an organism will stay infectious for varing amounts of time from minutes to weeks depending on the organism.

Not very many people stay away from work nor keep their kids out of daycare nor school when outbreaks of the usual diseases are severe. Even when a person is ill they don't even always stay home.

If sick people stayed home more often and everybody washed their hands a lot more we could see a decrease in some infections.


....B) When diseases fly around they get weaker in air and by the fighting immune systemThis is not correct. Pathogenic, (disease causing), organisms have specific places they live, survive, and multiply. These organisms don't get 'weaker' nor 'stronger' except by genetic changes. Your immune system might stop a disease from making you sick, but when another person gets an infectious dose, their illness is a new infection. Unless the organism has undergone a genetic change, the next person's illness will depend on their immune system which research tells us is not significantly impacted by weather.


....So i think that your theroy might only be a third of what causes greater illnesses in winter i still agree with it but just think in reality it is only a small to medium cause of illnesses (WARNING INFINITE LOOP!)You are sort of correct but not for the reasons you site. Closer more concentrated exposure of people to other people is only one way out of many that infectious diseases increase in a population.

But as to why we see an increase in upper respiratory infections in the winter weather, it is the most important reason for cyclic increases at that time of year. The weather's direct impact on your body has not been shown to have an impact in study after study.

WolfKC
2003-Oct-01, 01:37 AM
You probably couldn't guess from my post that I am very empathetic and sensitive to cross cultural issues.I'm very cross with cultural issues to. :-k 8-[ :)

beskeptical
2003-Oct-01, 08:36 AM
I thought of another big lie.

We are giving it away absolutely free.

You only have to pay shipping and handling.

Sigma_Orionis
2003-Oct-01, 01:20 PM
I thought of another big lie.

We are giving it away absolutely free.

You only have to pay shipping and handling.

beskeptical you ought to do Infomercials :lol:

Captain Kidd
2003-Oct-01, 03:45 PM
Anything to do with marketing ranks up there for me.
I've always enjoyed the phrase "new and improved."

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-01, 04:26 PM
Anything to do with marketing ranks up there for me. I've always enjoyed the phrase "new and improved."

Yes, I always get upset knowing that for years I've been buying an "old and inferior" product from a company. :(

Based on all of the "new and improved" advances in laundry detergent over the past 40 years one would wonder if detergent from the 60's cleaned clothes at all!

foxd
2003-Oct-01, 05:55 PM
Here's one from the woo-woos.

"Shocking new evidence!"