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carolyn
2003-Oct-05, 05:52 AM
Did anybody else hear/see the report this week on bbc news 24 about a skateboarder taking a photo of a fire ball / streak of fire in the sky? was looking for a picture/ news artical on the web. no luck. Was thinking that it was probably a small metiorite or some such? Am now thinking I drempt the whole thing??

carolyn
2003-Oct-05, 07:21 AM
well there you go, I'm not mad! i did here it and I found the picture here http://www.cyberspaceorbit.com/ of all places. So case closed.

QuagmaPhage
2003-Oct-05, 09:20 AM
The story also made it to Astronomy Picture of the Day (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031001.html). They have two large pictures.

Jigsaw
2003-Oct-05, 04:35 PM
No need to rely on Steadman, Carolyn, you didn't imagine it.

Schoolboy's photo amazes Nasa (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3155928.stm)

carolyn
2003-Oct-06, 05:35 AM
The story also made it to Astronomy Picture of the Day (http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap031001.html). They have two large pictures.

thanks for that should have thought to look there my self!

now I just assumed that it would be a small metorite but the plane contrail seems possible too looking again. Whats the overall opinion on that one?
My thoughts are that it may have been the former rather than the latter, factering in the indian near miss reasently.

thanks jigsaw, an obvious place to start now you mention it :oops:

Brill picky though.

Jigsaw
2003-Oct-06, 12:56 PM
Brill picky though.
Who is Brill and why is he being picky?

*snerk*

:lol:

carolyn
2003-Oct-07, 05:29 AM
Brill picky though.
Who is Brill and why is he being picky?

*snerk*

:lol:

:roll: :wink:

beskeptical
2003-Oct-07, 06:57 AM
Well, this time a google search was no help.

google search for brill picky (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Brill+picky)

But to my total amazement, the search still came up with a ton of links. :P

Wally
2003-Oct-07, 01:09 PM
When I looked at the first pic, I said (to myself, of course) "no way!!!". It was just too darn big and fat to be a meteor. The second pic pretty much showed it to be a jet contrail, in my mind. Felt justified in my scepticism after seeing it. Wally

SarahMc
2003-Oct-07, 06:15 PM
When I looked at the first pic, I said (to myself, of course) "no way!!!". It was just too darn big and fat to be a meteor. The second pic pretty much showed it to be a jet contrail, in my mind. Felt justified in my scepticism after seeing it. Wally

I saw a similar "fireball" in daylight when I was quite young. You could hear it, snapping and crackling as it passed over (actually it was more toward the horizon than the zenith). Even see pieces breaking off. It appeared pretty much as the image the lad took, except that it was more distant. I'm assuming his camera was set in zoom mode, which would explain a lot to me. The one I witnessed left a similar dark gray smoke trail. Numerous witnesses called local authorities on that day, I was just lucky to be walking out the back door at the time and facing the right direction to see it.

I remember my mother telling me not to make up stories when I pointed out the smoke trail and told her what I saw (she came outside a few minutes after I did). She apologized after hearing it on the radio in the car about an hour later. A few days later they had determined the impact site would have been somewhere in Canada a few hundred miles north of us based on eyewitness accounts.

It's one of many things in my life that peeked my interest in astronomy.

mike alexander
2003-Oct-07, 07:52 PM
First look says fireball, smoke trail and explosion. But.

Second look: Picture taken after local sunset (Lower clouds already unilluminated, confirmed by secoind picture taken just a few minutes later). 'Smoke trail' could be just unilluminated part of a vapor contrail.

Picture taken some time after trail was formed. Note how the last portion of the trail (in the bright region) bends 'downward'. If it was a bolide, and the bright region was an explosion I would expect the trail to still be 'straight' (this is a bit of a guess).

Brightness may be misleading, since we don't know the exposure setting. But looking at the downloaded picture's tone map there is nothing in the lower half of the scale. Therefore, the bright region is overexposed and may look more spectacular than it was (not implying cheating here; just don't know where the camera took its meter reading.)

Contrail at sunset seems the best description. But a spectacular picture.

carolyn
2003-Oct-08, 05:45 AM
think I agree with the con trail theory as it does look like one in the second photo, need to re read the artical as I do not recal any discription of noice. I am assuming the meteorites make a noice as they travel of course ! I figure a sort of woosh.... sound would be appropreate! :wink:

ToSeek
2003-Oct-13, 04:41 PM
Consensus is that it's a Concorde contrail (http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/mystery_monday_031013.html)

Any chance the chemtrailers will pick up on this?

Sever
2003-Oct-13, 09:12 PM
Could it be Ball lightning?

carolyn
2003-Oct-14, 04:20 AM
Toseek, you know, I looked at that photo again + the other one ( good size photos by the way) and now i'm not so sure about it being a contrail. all the con trails that I have seen sort of fade gently away at the tail end. The fire ball (?) seems to be at the head/front of the trail not the tail/end?
So maybe ball lightning is the answer? Hmmm! does ball lightening leave a trail like that - I dont know? will find out.

Sever
2003-Oct-15, 12:58 AM
http://www.silkhouse.co.uk/tytv/html/worldalive/archive/info/lightning.shtm (scoll down to find the ball lightning photo)

The photo does not look like any contrail to me.

carolyn
2003-Oct-15, 05:27 AM
Thanks sever,

well it looks like the picture from wales, is not ball lightning either ! its not bright enough is it. Back to the small meteor (?) theory then.

What do you all think?

question, if it is a falling Meteor why does this, (Consensus is that it's a Concorde contrail,) see link above... say it is a contrail? mistaken identity perhaps?

Hmmmm........


Ed because the link did not work - sorry :oops:

Jigsaw
2003-Oct-15, 01:17 PM
Any chance the chemtrailers will pick up on this?

[derisive snort]

TS, you are sooooo out of it. :lol: It's so obviously a UFO, or an alien spacecraft exploding upon entering Earth's atmosphere, or a top-secret Air Force project ditto, or a nuke that TPTB fired at Planet X that detonated prematurely, that the chemtrailers haven't been able to get a word in edgewise...

Bawheid
2003-Oct-15, 01:25 PM
Thanks sever,

well it looks like the picture from wales, is not ball lightning either ! its not bright enough is it. Back to the small meteor (?) theory then.

What do you all think?

question, if it is a falling Meteor why does this, (Consensus is that it's a Concorde contrail,) see link above... say it is a contrail? mistaken identity perhaps?:

I haven't had a chance to check all the links/photos yet, but it could be Concorde if the photo is from south Wales. Concorde heads west from Heathrow at Mach .9999 and can't go supersonic until over the sea. They take this to be the Bristol Channel so at a given point they kick in the afterburners, go supersonic and keep them on for a few minutes. No idea what that would look like, but it won't look like a normal contrail.

carolyn
2003-Oct-15, 06:47 PM
na gon of the plane theory now I watched a jet flying over head on my way to work this morning, the sun was low in the sky and the contrail was back lit, it did not look anything like the welsh picture. It was straight, white, curled on its self like a strand of dna and even with the sun behind it, it did not look like it was on fire (quite a 'pink' dawn too)

Now there was only one sun in the sky this morning so I guess it might mean that it was a missile aimed at PX and the lad was lucky (?) enough to see the end of the monster!!! :wink: but I don't think that the photo was taken near the bristol chanel, and what I remember from living in cardiff is that you certainly 'hear' concord but you do not see it - (loud Boom as it passes) + do not think that concord is running at the mo?

ufo Hmmmmmmmmmm !

No Jigsaw :roll:

go and lay down in a dark room, you have been on this board to long!!

think my money is on the meteor

ocasey3
2003-Oct-15, 07:40 PM
The Concorde is still operating, at least for a little while longer. They sold every ticket available. Just how much are those tickets any way?

Bawheid
2003-Oct-16, 07:51 AM
Concorde is still flying, I think until this weekend.

Having looked at the photos they wouldn't match the time of any scheduled flight, though it could be a maintainance test. Carolyn knows more about this than I do, so I'll go along with her.

Last price I saw for Concorde was about 6,000 one way Heathrow to JFK, every ticket has been sold out since about June. There was an offer earlier this year for 999 and 999 airmiles out on Concorde and 78 back on a 747. Which is why I am sitting here wearing Concorde cufflinks and drinking coffee from a Concorde mug. :D :D :D :D :D :D

eburacum45
2003-Oct-16, 12:31 PM
Sorry about this- posted over in GA- didnit realise you were discussing it here...
Well, the APOD site published it pretty quickly, and took it as a daylight fireball;
pretty soon other people were disagreeing with this verdict.
(read some discussion of this event here)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/south_east/3155928.stm
One person said it looked like dumped fuel igniting. This worries me a bit; why hould a jet dump fuel except in an emergency? Do they do this a lot?

I see Space.com think it might have been Concorde...

they also suggest a 'false sun', a kind of parhelia type phenomenon caused by reflection and refraction within ice crystals.

If you look at the second photograph you will notice that the illuminated part of the trail looks pretty much identical, despite having been taken from ten miles away at a different angle.

'False suns' and other parhelia are very dependent on the angle of observation, and I would have expected that the second photo would have been noticeably different, and the bright 'false sun' should have been at a different point in the contrail.
Instead it seems to be at the same point, right at the end of the trail, and apparently lower down in the sky with respect to the observer.

This is not how parhelia present themselves at all.

So, I tend toward the fuel dump theory; an act which the pilot concerned might not admit to.

Just my thoughts on the subject...

carolyn
2003-Oct-20, 05:57 AM
found out more about ball lightning and that seems to be closely assosiated with techtonic movement, earthquakes etc so not that then, although wales does have earth quakes, as far as I know there were none reported on or around that time.

fuel dump theory, that's an interesting thought.

has any body got a picture of fuel being dumped? I an not surprised that no one wants to admit to that one! would have to be military I think. Would emagen that you would only dump fuel if you were about to crash, no crashes reoprted as far as I can see.


Nope still think maybe meteor, the fact that one hit in an indian village a few days after/befor (can't remember which!) makes me wonder if we went - or are going - through a bit of a dust cloud so to speak.

Now I think of it I have vauge memories of being told that the earth would do this at some point (on an old blue peter program - of all things!)
something to do with the milkyway and its spiral arms, we pass through them on our route through - or some such...! anybody else remember this? or do I need to drink some more coffee!

Ed for early morning spelling mistakes :oops: more coffee needed!