PDA

View Full Version : Perspectives: How much is a 700 \$ Billion Astronomical Bailout?

Launch window
2008-Sep-23, 04:32 PM
Ok as you know Fannie, AIG etc are probably indirectly going to be bailed out with US taxes but how much does it really add up to? These are quotes from various the blogospheres del.typepad, techpresident blog and larryhodges blog etc

700 billion bills stacked on top of each other would be 22,000 miles high.

It would cover an area of about 2800 square miles.

In 2005 dollars we could purchase a little more than 5 complete Apollo space programs. That works out to about 30 landings and 60 astronauts walking on the surface of the moon. Of course, that assumes 1960's technology and starting over from scratch with each program.

We could buy every person who has ever been born going back to about 50,000BC lunch at McDonald's. If they ordered something from the dollar menu they could have two or three lunches. I'm sure those cave men would like that.

700 billion dollar bills laid end to end would be about 68 million miles long, enough to circle the Earth's equator over 2700 times, or to the moon and back 142 times.

At minimum wage (\$6.55/hour), working 40 hours/week, 50 weeks per year, it would take about 53 million years to earn \$700 billion.

It is 35 times the amount spent on all foreign aid in most years

If you typed 700 billion dollar signs (12-point Times) at a rate of two per second, it would take over 11,000 years, and would be about 920,000 miles long, which would circle the Earth's equator about 37 times.

700 billion is 1.75 times greater than the estimated number of stars in our galaxy (400 billion) and 8.75 times the estimated number of galaxies in the known universe (80 billion)

mahesh
2008-Sep-23, 04:45 PM
Quote:
We could buy every person who has ever been born going back to about 50,000BC lunch at McDonald's. If they ordered something from the dollar menu they could have two or three lunches. I'm sure those cave men would like that.

Make mine a pizza Launch, please. Thanks!

SkepticJ
2008-Sep-23, 05:02 PM
Seven times the number of neurons in an average human brain.

NEOWatcher
2008-Sep-23, 05:20 PM
At least it's 1000 times less than what Kucinich is proposing (or at least reported to have (http://www.newsnet5.com/news/17528931/detail.html) said)

Rep. Dennis Kucinich is proposing giving every American a stake in the Treasury Department's request for a \$700,000 billion bailout.
:eek::lol:

tdvance
2008-Sep-23, 05:36 PM
hey, let's hope they don't mean the British "billion"!!!

Launch window
2008-Sep-24, 08:04 AM
from racing forums, bostonrefeers, medievalmind etc

Just how much is 700 billion. If every man, woman, and child in the U.S. donated \$2000 to the financial institutions it would come close to the \$700 billion that is thought to be needed to save the institutions from going under

About a billion months ago, dinosaurs walked the earth. (One billion months is about 82 million years.)

so we can say 700 billion months = 58 million years ago, pre galaxies, pre hyperinflation, pre-big bang, pre time ??

Forget all that military and social spending. That's more than all of that combined

It is One Hundred and Twenty Times the Population of Planet Earth

2008-Sep-24, 08:32 AM
this post assumes that the money in question actually ever did or ever will exist in a form you can hold- they are using made up money to buy pieces of paper (a bunch of mortgages) from bankrupt banks. this is where inflation comes from...

Launch window
2008-Sep-24, 09:34 AM
The cost of our delusion catching up with us (http://ocolly.com/2008/09/22/the-cost-of-our-delusion-catching-up-with-us/)

FBI Investigates Four Firms at Heart of the Mess (http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122221103979869021.html?mod=googlenews_wsj)

The U.S. Federal Reserve agreed to channel \$30 billion into the global financial system by opening currency swap lines with central banks in Norway, Sweden, Denmark and Australia. (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=aHKjS0X1FsUw&refer=economy)

Here's some calculations of my own

700 billion seconds ago, the Earth was exiting the last glacial period and some humans with animal fur as clothes and hunting with spears were making wonderful paintings on the walls of some cave in France

Using 700 billion bucks you could make an attractive fore sale sign for the aliens ;) warping the Moon at the equator about 6 times in a big dollar ribbon

Paying back the 700 Billion at a Dollar a second would take over 20,000 years. A spacecraft like New Horizons could have traveled to Pluto and back 2100 times.

Paying it back at one US Dollar per month, well cosmologists calculate our Universe would have already experienced the Big-Rip as atoms and subatomic particles no longer exist

mahesh
2008-Sep-24, 11:02 AM
so we can say 700 billion months = 58 million years ago, pre galaxies, pre hyperinflation, pre-big bang, pre time ??.... :) consider it as typographical enthusiasm!

ps: ah is still waitin' for my pizza launch, Launch!

banquo's_bumble_puppy
2008-Sep-24, 12:22 PM
I hate to say this but when all is said and done with this....the United States will be lucky to afford to launch a Diet Coke/Mentos Rocket.....

I forsee

end of Moon/Mars program
end of ISS (maybe a good thing)
space science cut to barest of bones...Oppy and Spirit come to mind

Launch window
2008-Sep-25, 10:07 AM
drbacchus blog:

With 700 billion dollars, you could give everyone on the planet \$100, which is more than a sizable percentage of them will make this year.

some of my calculations

With 700 Bil \$ you could pay for education, pay for cancer research and pay for all recommendations of the 9/11 Commission and still have lots of money left over

You would have enough cash to buy about a 700 boxes of GirlScout cookies for everyone in the USA

The USA has not existed for 700 billion seconds yet, we would have to wait over at least another 19,000 years

ravens_cry
2008-Sep-25, 10:33 AM
In 2005 dollars we could purchase a little more than 5 complete Apollo space programs. That works out to about 30 landings and 60 astronauts walking on the surface of the moon. Of course, that assumes 1960's technology and starting over from scratch with each program. A rather silly assumption if you ask me.

Launch window
2008-Sep-25, 11:25 AM
A rather silly assumption if you ask me.

Last year they could have passed an additional \$1 billion, to give NASA administrator Mike Griffin but it never came to be. I don't know if this "5 Apollo missions" a silly assumption, I'm not certain on the entire budget for VSE/Constellation but it seems to me from 2008-2020 it could cost something like 220 billion in current year dollars. However that VSE/Constellation budget also includes funding for Shuttle operations, Mars robots, ISS etc. The point I'm trying to make is if you were to focus just exclusively on putting people on the Moon, I have a feeling for 700 Billion it could be done many times

Doodler
2008-Sep-25, 12:06 PM
I hate to say this but when all is said and done with this....the United States will be lucky to afford to launch a Diet Coke/Mentos Rocket.....

I forsee

end of Moon/Mars program
end of ISS (maybe a good thing)
space science cut to barest of bones...Oppy and Spirit come to mind

Then you do not understand exactly what this bailout entails, if you think this is the result.

This is not 700 billion dollars that has been sitting somewhere that the Fed is handing out from its back pocket, it is essentially the US government printing money via lines of credit to the companies it is offering to save. This is why the value of the greenback has been kicked in the shins this week, the impending threat of almost a trillion new dollars in open circulation has eroded confidence in the dollar's value.

The absolute buying power of all greenbacks in the world is a relatively fixed value based on the overall strength of the US economy. By flushing 700 billion new greenbacks into circulation, the buying power of the US economy has been subdivided into smaller portions represented by individual dollars. This is why a currency's value can be rescued by having banks buy up bills in circulation. By doing so, they take those excess bills "out of play" and prop up the buying power of the bills left over.

This is also why the price of hard commodities like oil have shot up. Demand is still slacking, but the fall of the dollar's overall value has weakened it against the currencies it must be exchanged with in order to import it.

Those programs aren't going anywhere, provided Congress continues to fune them, they will simply become more expensive as the dollar loses buying power.

Ilya
2008-Sep-25, 12:21 PM
I hate to say this but when all is said and done with this....the United States will be lucky to afford to launch a Diet Coke/Mentos Rocket.....

I forsee

end of Moon/Mars program
end of ISS (maybe a good thing)

For once, I agree with Banquo's pessimism

space science cut to barest of bones...Oppy and Spirit come to mind
Not sure what you mean here -- are you saying that Oppy and Spirit will be cut, or that Oppy and Spirit are "bare bones" space science?

Ilya
2008-Sep-25, 12:24 PM
Those programs aren't going anywhere, provided Congress continues to fune them, they will simply become more expensive as the dollar loses buying power.
Well, duh! "Provided Congress continues to fune them" is keyword. As these programs become more expensive -- for the very reasons you described, -- the chances of Congress continuing to fund them decrease. Not disappear, but decrease.

Click Ticker
2008-Sep-25, 01:04 PM
Assuming 301MM people in the US, with \$700B you could give every man, woman, and child in the US a check for \$2,325.58 and still have enough left for Richard Pryor to syphen off \$420,000 in 10th's of pennies.

Say what you will about it - I liked Superman 3.

Launch window
2008-Sep-26, 06:36 AM
I liked 3 but Superman II is my favorite

Here's a good vid

Launch window
2008-Sep-26, 01:10 PM
Looking at NASA's 2006 budget (16 Billion) with a \$700 Billion plan you could fund NASA from year 2008 until the year 2049 and still have some money leftover for United States Agriculture, Housing, Energy etc

Ozzy
2008-Sep-27, 07:09 AM
Budding astronauts might have to emmigrate to China.

While NASA officials complain that diminishing budgets threaten US dominance in space, China has joined Europe, India, and other nations in announcing ambitious new developments in aerospace.

boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2008/09/26/a_jubilant_china_sends_three_astronauts_on_nations _first_spacewalk/

Zhong guo hen hao!

Whirlpool
2008-Sep-27, 09:37 AM
Do I should feel nervous about that ?

:neutral:

Ozzy
2008-Sep-28, 02:12 AM
Perhaps.

Me thinks this might make a good topic on its own.

Romanus
2008-Sep-28, 05:39 AM
You could buy about 200 Cassini missions, or 800 12-year Voyager missions. You could fund (at least) 550 Shuttle launches; if each carried the maximum 25 metric tons to LEO, you could loft a total of almost 14,000 tons, a little less than the mass of a Bogue-class escort carrier.

Launch window
2008-Sep-28, 02:13 PM
What else can you buy with a 700 \$ Billion Astronomical Bailout?

You could have built a Fermilab sized project 2,880 times

You could build the New York Yankees stadium 437 times

You could buy up the giant GM building in NYC 241 times.

could build 118 LHC sized experiments

build the entire Big Don Massachusetts Tunnel system 48 times over

could pay off this years veterans' benefits ten times over

Host a huge event like the Atlanta Winter Olympics 388 times over

Pay for the entire Chinese space program for the next 233 years

Drunk Vegan
2008-Sep-28, 03:22 PM
The absolute buying power of all greenbacks in the world is a relatively fixed value based on the overall strength of the US economy. By flushing 700 billion new greenbacks into circulation, the buying power of the US economy has been subdivided into smaller portions represented by individual dollars. This is why a currency's value can be rescued by having banks buy up bills in circulation. By doing so, they take those excess bills "out of play" and prop up the buying power of the bills left over.

Which is why eventually the dollar will be completely worthless and it will take a hundred dollars to buy a loaf of bread. Shouldn't be too long now - we've been printing funny money for almost a hundred years. Our paper currency is and always has been utterly worthless and backed up by nothing.

With confidence in our imaginary value shattered the dollar will never recover.

At some point they will abandon the greenbacks and default on all debt owed, declaring the debts void.

We will then shift to an entirely digital monetary system. There will no longer be currrency - just debit or credit cards. Our money will go from being mostly imaginary to entirely imaginary.

2008-Sep-28, 04:08 PM
Do I should feel nervous about that ?

:neutral:
For the short term yes long term no at least that is the way i am seeing it. Where I live is right on the border of the US and at end of my road there is construction of a new four lane highway which will lead to another bridge to Maine and on the other end we have the working on natural gas pipeline. But the particle board comapny in the area is seeing a bit of downturn because they don't need it in the states for a little while. Also the region has been affected by lower tourism because of the lower dollar. But one for sure is people need certain things to survive and people will always want stuff. So we are going into a bit of tough times but remember the tech bubble and other bubbles were it is was all gloom and doom everytime one of those hits.

Chuck
2008-Sep-28, 04:18 PM
\$700,000,000,000 is so much money that it could pay off 7% of the U.S. national debt.

filrabat
2008-Sep-28, 04:42 PM
\$700,000,000,000 is so much money that it could pay off 7% of the U.S. national debt.

Definitely in the right mindset, IMO, Clint!!!! To further elaborate - the US GDP = \$13 Trillion, or \$13,000 Billion. So that's 700/13,000 = 5.384% of our GDP, not a huge percentage but still a fairly hefty sum - comparable to \$2,690 of a \$50,000 salary, not exactly chunk change.

So, I think if Congress and the Financial/Regulatory community design the bailout well (OK, this is a BIG "if"), it won't lead to the dreaded economic/financial outcome. Still, we will have to design more precise, properly targeted regulations and laws so this will not happen again.

Metricyard
2008-Sep-28, 05:42 PM
with \$700 billion, you could buy 1,400,000
\$500,000 homes.

I'll take one. :lol:

Drunk Vegan
2008-Sep-29, 02:27 AM
with \$700 billion, you could buy 1,400,000
\$500,000 homes.

I'll take one. :lol:

See, why aren't we doing * that * ?

I'd be all for this if it meant buying homes for 1,400,000 people who do not have them.

Neverfly
2008-Sep-29, 02:36 AM
See, why aren't we doing * that * ?

I'd be all for this if it meant buying homes for 1,400,000 people who do not have them.

It depends.
A lot of people are "less fortunate" because of the choices they make. Including addictions and abuse.

I would be all for it if recipients had to qualify.

filrabat
2008-Sep-29, 02:58 AM
700 billion microns

(an average human red blood cell is around 5 to 10 microns, IIRC)

700 billion microns = 700 km (420 miles - half the distance from Dallas to Atlanta)

700 billion millimeters = 700 thousand km (almost twice the distance to the moon)

junelockhart
2008-Sep-29, 04:18 AM
700 billion is how much we've already spent on the war in Irag. Hmmm, any connection there?

Launch window
2008-Sep-29, 07:36 AM
Definitely in the right mindset, IMO, Clint!!!! To further elaborate - the US GDP = \$13 Trillion, or \$13,000 Billion. So that's 700/13,000 = 5.384% of our GDP, not a huge percentage but still a fairly hefty sum - comparable to \$2,690 of a \$50,000 salary, not exactly chunk change.

So, I think if Congress and the Financial/Regulatory community design the bailout well (OK, this is a BIG "if"), it won't lead to the dreaded economic/financial outcome. Still, we will have to design more precise, properly targeted regulations and laws so this will not happen again.

Click to see the most frightening website on the internet
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/