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tuffel999
2003-Oct-22, 03:15 AM
So maybe the Bermuda Triangle is all caused by some sea farts........great.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20031021/sc_nm/science_bubbles_dc_1

Humphrey
2003-Oct-22, 03:38 AM
Triangleman....What did you do? :o

planethollywood
2003-Oct-22, 12:42 PM
i was watching a repeat of DSV and it was an episode in the burmuda triangle, and anyway they had trouble with fresh water rivers beneath the sea floor that leak into the ocean creating columns of freash water to the oceon surface. thus shipping configured for salt water would sink like a stone when they hit the fresh water.

anyway it sounded alright at the time.. :roll:

jokergirl
2003-Oct-22, 12:51 PM
I think I've heard that methane theory several years ago; never read anything about its credibility though.

Seems it keeps popping up every now and again, just like you only ever see the same episode in TV series you're not really following (that is courtesy Neil Gaiman, but it keeps happening to me!).
Also read an article about dinosaurs with cancer today, which I thought had already been discovered several years ago. Sometimes I begin to doubt science "daily news" websites. It's more like "Daily Olds"...

;)

Amadeus
2003-Oct-22, 12:58 PM
I think I've heard that methane theory several years ago; never read anything about its credibility though.

Seems it keeps popping up every now and again, just like you only ever see the same episode in TV series you're not really following (that is courtesy Neil Gaiman, but it keeps happening to me!).
Also read an article about dinosaurs with cancer today, which I thought had already been discovered several years ago. Sometimes I begin to doubt science "daily news" websites. It's more like "Daily Olds"...

;)

I've seen this before as well. The theory as I remember it is that the methane disolves in the water lowering its density so ships need to displace more water to float. They did actualy test this in a tank and the model ship sank when methan was pumped into the water.

I dont know if this can apply to planes fly overhead as well.....

Bawheid
2003-Oct-22, 01:08 PM
This has been around for a while, you either sink or know nothing, there are no reported near misses. Big ocean, relatively small ships, doesn't seem likely. As for the wreck in the North Sea, you can't find an area there without a wreck of some kind.

I would be interested to know the amount of methane neede to sink a model in a tank relative to the volume of water. These things don't always scale up.

Amadeus
2003-Oct-22, 01:21 PM
The tank was about 4 cubic metres not very big. But the thing I remember was that it was an open top tank.

JUST THINK ABOUT THE SMELL! :o :o :o
You did notice the people around it looking a bit green..... :lol:

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-22, 01:24 PM
First of all Humphrey I squarely lay the blame for the methane on all of our sea cattle. (moo) :wink:

IIRC in the past there was a similar Bermuda Triangle theory but the 'gas of choice' was carbon dioxide. Something about large bubbles of CO2 could sink ships and stop jet engines . . .etc, etc. I don't keep up with Triangle myths too much - I don't recall if that area of water has more 'disappearances' than any other body of water with similar traffic so I think the whole concept of a 'Bermuda Triangle' is a myth. What I can tell you is that I've never seen a marine insurance policy in Bermuda with a 'Triangle' clause so I don't think the insurance industry sees any significance to that body of water either.

David May is a computer specialist so it sounds to me like he and Joseph Monaghan just did some computer models of the methane hypothesis and saw that under some conditions large bubbles could occur. Whatever.

Gmann
2003-Oct-22, 02:01 PM
I recall seeing something on Discover channel some time ago that addressed this issue. They showed that water with methane bubbles in it has a lower density, and any boats traveling through one of these areas when the gas is present has a much lower draft. There have been examples of boats lost in the 'triangle' that were found later, hundreds of miles away. The theory is that the boats encountered the less dense water, went under, and were carried off by the Gulf Stream. They showed 1 example of a Cigarette Boat that was lost near the triangle area, and was found a few years later off the coast of Iceland.

There have been several reports of ships disappearing without a trace in the triangle that actually went down someplace else, the wrecks were found, and nothing out of the ordinary was reported. That would probably explain why no trace was ever found off the coast of Bermuda. There have been lots of stories written about this terrible place, but I can't recall any recent reports of mysterious wrecks occurring out there. Since the Insurance Companies don't seem to be too concerned, I don't think we need to worry about it that much either.

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-22, 02:25 PM
There have been several reports of ships disappearing without a trace in the triangle that actually went down someplace else, the wrecks were found, and nothing out of the ordinary was reported. That would probably explain why no trace was ever found off the coast of Bermuda. There have been lots of stories written about this terrible place, but I can't recall any recent reports of mysterious wrecks occurring out there. Since the Insurance Companies don't seem to be too concerned, I don't think we need to worry about it that much either.

I'd like to clarify something so there is no confusion between the Triangle and Bermuda itself. The Bermuda Triangle is a large body of water of which Bermuda is the northern 'point' with San Juan and Florida(?) being the other two. The Triangle is not really off the coast of Bermuda, the main area of the Triangle is hundreds of miles away. Bermuda itself is surrounded by reefs that extend a few miles out from the island, these reefs are quite treacherous and have claimed numerous ships since the 17th century, any ship hitting those reefs are easy to find as the water is not very deep.

So in summary:

Bermuda Triangle - open ocean, very deep water, would be very difficult to locate a sunk ship

Bermuda, the island - shallow reefs, sunk ship easy to locate, no ships 'disappear' from the reef.

Amadeus
2003-Oct-22, 02:52 PM
Brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "Loose lips sink ships" :lol:

I know cheap shot.......... :lol:

------------------------------------------------------------
Why pay more?

R.A.F.
2003-Oct-22, 03:06 PM
The "Bermuda Triangle mystery" was "solved" (http://www.hutch.demon.co.uk/prom/bermuda.htm) a while back. Highly recommended reading, an excellent book.

Eroica
2003-Oct-22, 03:36 PM
Yeah, heard this theory years ago. It's even been mooted to explain the loss of aircraft. I remember some guy doing a demonstration on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. Something to do with loss of lift due to the sudden drop in air pressure, methane being less dense than air?!

PS: Bermuda > TriangleMan > Bermuda Triangle > #-o D'oh! I just got that. I am so slow at picking up stuff like that.

Bawheid
2003-Oct-22, 03:46 PM
I know I shouldn't ask this, but would a coal fired ship explode rather than sink, if suddenly surrounded by methane?

Amadeus
2003-Oct-22, 03:50 PM
I think the ship would ship before the levels of gas in the air got great enough to expload.....

The whole thing about the sinking thing is that the gas mixes with the water to make it less dense

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-22, 04:16 PM
PS: Bermuda > TriangleMan > Bermuda Triangle > #-o D'oh! I just got that. I am so slow at picking up stuff like that.

You can't be too hard on yourself you've only been here a month. :) That and it's only half the reason (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6692&start=6) for my name.

Kaptain K
2003-Oct-22, 06:19 PM
JUST THINK ABOUT THE SMELL!
Methane is odorless. As are ethane, propane and butane. The odor of natural gas (mix of methane and ethane) and LPG (propane or butane) is added at the refinery so that you can smell the leak. Otherwise, the gas could build up to asphyxiating or flammable levels before anyone became aware.

http://www.chemicalguide.com/Public_Pages/What_We_Do.cfm?Params=Occidental%20Chemical%3DBayt own

SeanF
2003-Oct-22, 06:34 PM
JUST THINK ABOUT THE SMELL!
Methane is odorless. As are ethane, propane and butane. The odor of natural gas (mix of methane and ethane) and LPG (propane or butane) is added at the refinery so that you can smell the leak. Otherwise, the gas could build up to asphyxiating or flammable levels before anyone became aware.

http://www.chemicalguide.com/Public_Pages/What_We_Do.cfm?Params=Occidental%20Chemical%3DBayt own

It's Ross Gellar!!

mike alexander
2003-Oct-22, 07:10 PM
I am not buying, tentatively, the density argument. Methane hydrate has essentially the same density as water ice. Methane is significantly soluble in water (especially near the freezing point), but only at extreme pressures (megapascals). By the time it gets near the surface of the water column the solubility is essentially zero. So the bulk density of water wouldn't be significantly affected.

It sounds as if the argument is closer to hitting the head of a beer a couple of hundred meters across. Obviously, a foam is much less dense than the liquid it's made from. But I don't know. The assumption you have to make is truly explosive phase change of a large volume of the clathrate to make a giant bubble (or column of fizz) big enough to swamp a ship, and the column would have to hold together during a rise of 500-5000 meters through the water column. That, I can't comment on.

The closest experiment I can think of is the reaction of a surface ship near a depth charge epicenter. Same general idea of explosive formation of a gas bubble under the water surface. Any surface ships of significant size ever been swamped by depth charges?

tuffel999
2003-Oct-22, 07:11 PM
I don't keep up with Triangle myths too much - I don't recall if that area of water has more 'disappearances' than any other body of water with similar traffic so I think the whole concept of a 'Bermuda Triangle' is a myth.

Not a 'disappearence' thing but a LOT of shipping used to go down on Lake Superior, the Edmund Fitzgerald for instance, especially near Whitefish Point but those instances weren't really mysterious it was, most times, the horrible weather of the lake in winter.

Edit: Spelling as usual #-o #-o #-o #-o #-o

LTC8K6
2003-Oct-22, 07:19 PM
There is no "Bermuda Triangle" as popularly described, so no explanation is necessary.

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-22, 07:31 PM
There is no "Bermuda Triangle" as popularly described, so no explanation is necessary.

=D> I kind of wish more people would stop thinking about the Bermuda Triangle. Whenever I visit other places and people find out I live in Bermuda they sometimes bring it up. Everyone should instead think about Bermuda as a great place for a vacation (http://www.bermudatourism.com/docs/index2.html)!

(This could be you on a beach right now ===> 8) )

Humphrey
2003-Oct-22, 07:35 PM
I agree, Bermiuda is a very, very beautiful place. Plus some great diving there too.

Stuart
2003-Oct-22, 08:05 PM
Sorry-somehow this duplicated - could somebody delete this one)

Stuart
2003-Oct-22, 08:06 PM
The closest experiment I can think of is the reaction of a surface ship near a depth charge epicenter. Same general idea of explosive formation of a gas bubble under the water surface. Any surface ships of significant size ever been swamped by depth charges?

Swamped - not that I know of. Blown apart certainly - there were numerous cases of surface ships moving too slowly that contrived to take their own strens off with shallow-set depth-charges. However, there is another thing here - a gorup of explosions known generically as "under-the-keel shots" . Here, the explosion is under the keel so the gas bubble contacts the hull. the effect there is the velocity of impact of gas to hull lifts the ship's middle up while her bow and stern remain.

http://www.ssbn622.homestead.com/files/Sinkex02.jpg

The fun bit is when the bubble collapses. it does so equilaterally - that is all surfaces of the bubble collapse at equal speed. The catch is, the bubble is distorted by its contact with the hull and ithe water rushing into the collapsing hull forms a shaped jet that blasts through the bottom of the ship and out through the superstructure.

http://www.ssbn622.homestead.com/files/Sinkex06.jpg

If you look carefully you'll see the bridge about to land in the water after being thrown far into the air.

Jack Higgins
2003-Oct-22, 08:11 PM
The reason that the aircraft dissapeared immediately is that the methane rising up through the air is flammable, and was ignited by the heat from the engines. They just exploded in mid air...

mike alexander
2003-Oct-22, 11:11 PM
Boy, some people just get better toys for the holidays.

I guess the question is if a bubble forms deep (clathrates are not stable unless at 300+meters) and rises to the top, is there enough time for it to come to equilibrium pressure (unlike the superpressure bubble from a shallow explosion as shown). If it does, I would think it just bloops.

Still... cool it with the boom booms!

fingolfen
2003-Oct-22, 11:13 PM
The tank was about 4 cubic metres not very big. But the thing I remember was that it was an open top tank.

JUST THINK ABOUT THE SMELL! :o :o :o
You did notice the people around it looking a bit green..... :lol:

Actually, methane has no odor... the reason you can smell a gas leak is because they add dihydrogen sulfide to it...

Musashi
2003-Oct-22, 11:41 PM
Natural gas originally had a pleasant smell added to it, but peope were actually leaving the gas on in order to make their house smell nice.. at least that's what I've heard.

I saw the methane story in my local paper today, interesting, but it mentioned mostly the North Sea, not Bermuda.

NASA Fan
2003-Oct-23, 03:36 AM
There is no "Bermuda Triangle" as popularly described, so no explanation is necessary.

=D> I kind of wish more people would stop thinking about the Bermuda Triangle. Whenever I visit other places and people find out I live in Bermuda they sometimes bring it up. Everyone should instead think about Bermuda as a great place for a vacation (http://www.bermudatourism.com/docs/index2.html)!

(This could be you on a beach right now ===> 8) )

I think that I remember some controversy about that picture. Wasn't that picture taken in Hawaii?

Charlie in Dayton
2003-Oct-23, 04:05 AM
How many whales would it take...

Whale Flatulence Captured in Photo (http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20030825/whalegas.html)

http://dsc.discovery.com/news/briefs/20030825/gallery/whalegas_zoom.jpg

Gmann
2003-Oct-23, 04:40 AM
:o it looks like a...gulp...Knuckleball...I've been looking at the Planet X stuff entirely too long [-X

Zachary
2003-Oct-23, 08:11 AM
JUST THINK ABOUT THE SMELL!
Methane is odorless. As are ethane, propane and butane. The odor of natural gas (mix of methane and ethane) and LPG (propane or butane) is added at the refinery so that you can smell the leak. Otherwise, the gas could build up to asphyxiating or flammable levels before anyone became aware.

http://www.chemicalguide.com/Public_Pages/What_We_Do.cfm?Params=Occidental%20Chemical%3DBayt own

They probably would have used scented gas for the experiment though.

Humphrey
2003-Oct-23, 08:46 AM
Charlie,
Remind me never to swim behind a whale the next time i go diving.

Bawheid
2003-Oct-23, 08:59 AM
And steer clear of warm patches.......

Humphrey
2003-Oct-23, 09:12 AM
Yellow snow too while we are at it.

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-23, 11:38 AM
Everyone should instead think about Bermuda as a great place for a vacation (http://www.bermudatourism.com/docs/index2.html)!

I think that I remember some controversy about that picture. Wasn't that picture taken in Hawaii?

Right controversy, wrong picture. Early in the year the Department of Tourism used a stock photo from Hawaii in ads promoting Bermuda. Here's a local article (http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030523/NEWS/105230043) on the issue, with one of the pictures. I'm not sure if the picture was ever on the website.

kucharek
2003-Oct-23, 11:45 AM
Everyone should instead think about Bermuda as a great place for a vacation (http://www.bermudatourism.com/docs/index2.html)!

I think that I remember some controversy about that picture. Wasn't that picture taken in Hawaii?

Right controversy, wrong picture. Early in the year the Department of Tourism used a stock photo from Hawaii in ads promoting Bermuda. Here's a local article (http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20030523/NEWS/105230043) on the issue, with one of the pictures. I'm not sure if the picture was ever on the website.

Does this mean the Bermudas don't exist? 8-[

(I just try to think like a Twinkie)

Harald

PS: Actually, the Bermuda Triangle is a part of Karlsruhe with plenty of pubs where you can easily get lost.

Amadeus
2003-Oct-23, 11:59 AM
The tank was about 4 cubic metres not very big. But the thing I remember was that it was an open top tank.

JUST THINK ABOUT THE SMELL! :o :o :o
You did notice the people around it looking a bit green..... :lol:

Actually, methane has no odor... the reason you can smell a gas leak is because they add dihydrogen sulfide to it...

So what does cause the smell in farts? #-o
As far as I know nobody has added dihydrogen sulfide to my food :lol:

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-23, 12:00 PM
Does this mean the Bermudas don't exist? 8-[

No, it just means we never landed there. :lol:

kucharek
2003-Oct-23, 12:03 PM
The tank was about 4 cubic metres not very big. But the thing I remember was that it was an open top tank.

JUST THINK ABOUT THE SMELL! :o :o :o
You did notice the people around it looking a bit green..... :lol:

Actually, methane has no odor... the reason you can smell a gas leak is because they add dihydrogen sulfide to it...

So what does cause the smell in farts? #-o
As far as I know nobody has added dihydrogen sulfide to my food :lol:
But there is always some sulphur in something. And it takes only very few dihydrogen sulfide (which, btw is very toxic) to give you a good smell... :(

Blondin
2003-Oct-23, 12:35 PM
So what does cause the smell in farts? #-o
As far as I know nobody has added dihydrogen sulfide to my food :lol:

Actually you did, or at least your guts did...
A byproduct of your digestive process is hydrogen sulfide.

http://www.plasticforkdiaries.org/insideu/detail.cfm?EpResourcesID=55[/url]

Betenoire
2003-Oct-23, 01:17 PM
Mmmmm... Sulfolobus. Archaea, not just for sea floor vents anymore!

mike alexander
2003-Oct-23, 03:48 PM
There are middling-low molecular weight indoles, aldehydes and ketones in there to provide richness and body. They didn't name it 'skatole' for nothing.

Colt
2003-Oct-24, 12:19 AM
Actually, it's doubtful that a rise cloud of methane would catch fire from even a jet engine. Most jet engines have a bypass airflow to help muffle the engine sound and to mix with the exhaust gases and bring their temperature down somewhat. As for a piston engine, it's even less likely. Both jet and piston would most likely suffocate.. Unless the aircraft was at a very low altitute the engines could likely be started again and in that time the pilot could have sent out a distress call. When the plane hit the water the emergency beacon would go off and the plane would float for a period of time unless it is severely damaged. In that case it would be more likely to be a jet going low and fast for some reason..


The theory of ships being sunk by this is possible but unlikely. -Colt

TriangleMan
2003-Oct-31, 11:53 AM
A scientist in Bermuda (http://www.theroyalgazette.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20031030/NEWS/110300056) says the methane-theory is "a highly speculative theory and for it all to be linked to disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle is a real reach.

Oh, and the article says many of the ship disappearances are a "sham". =D>

Why can't we get this kind of critique on CNN? :-?

Stuart
2003-Oct-31, 01:42 PM
The reason that the aircraft dissapeared immediately is that the methane rising up through the air is flammable, and was ignited by the heat from the engines. They just exploded in mid air...

Back in the Second World War, there was a proposal to the Department of Miscellaneous Weapons Development (part of the Royal Navy) for an anti-V1 device that was very much along those lines. The V1s were causing probles because their small size and high speed made them difficult targets (the problemw as eventually solved using a combination of radar-pointed anti-aircraft guns and jet fightes - its not commonly realized the RAF had jet powered fighters in service six months before the Germans). The inventor proposed a machine that would create giant soap bubbles from a mixture of detergent and methane that would get sucked into the pulse jet of the V1 and explode, bring it down. The idea was rejected because it was shown that the explosions that powered the V1 were much more powerful than any that could be generated by the methane bubble. However, it was suggested that the bubbles were effectivelya form of inflight refuelling and could cause a V1 to overfly its target and land in open country.

Humphrey
2003-Oct-31, 02:25 PM
Hmm...Bubble powered rockets. Intetesting.


So does this mean that we have to confiscate the bubble blowing solution from kids at airports?


:-P

carbonite
2005-Jan-06, 11:39 PM
I just found out last night after watching an amazing tv episode about this topic, they say that this methane gas that escapes beneath the Burmuda Triangle creates more pollution than our industries and automobiles ever since we created it all, so then you think about all these naturalists and people who try to save the environment and then companies creating cars that produce no carbon monoxide or any kind of pollution really don't mean squat, they're all just wasting their time due to the large amounts of pollution created by this methane escaping under the oceans surface beneath the Burmuda Triangle. I also found out that large methane bubbles reach the surface and will sink a whole ship in less than a second. Yet the magnetic force is still a mystery, yet i've read that the methane gas, when mixed with air, will explode on contact with hot engine exhausts. The negative ions generated when sea water is agitated by an explosive burst of methane gas. The bubbling water at the surface of the sea releases an enormous rush of negative ions. This creates an immensely powerful magnetic field, causing compasses to spin uncontrollably and rendering useless and delicate electrical equipment caught in its sphere of influence. Therefore a plane wouldn't know which direction he is heading, whether he was going down, or upside down. Our atmosphere has been endangered even before technology took advance in creating engines, and machinery that creates smog/smoke. Thats why the Burmuda Triangle is probably the weirdest thing to happen on Earth. Then to think about it, of how long Earth has been here, how long has this Burmuda Triangle been doing this, come to think that our atmosphere can take quite a bit for as clean as it looks when you step outside your home and take a look around.

Before writing this i did not read anyone else's comment upon this issue so if what i said has already been said, sorry. . . thanks - carbonite

frogesque
2005-Jan-07, 12:18 AM
Stuart. Those photos are incredible. :o

Break her back and then let the imploding water disembowel her. Do you know how much explosive would be needed to achieve that effect?

Sammy
2005-Jan-07, 05:06 AM
Stuart wrote


Back in the Second World War, there was a proposal to the Department of Miscellaneous Weapons Development (part of the Royal Navy)

The (later) novelist Nevil Shute (under his real name Nevil Shute Norway) was a part of that unit. He was a trainned engineer, and had designed several sucessful aircraft before the war. They came up with some weird ideas, e.g., dumping lampblack onto the Thames River to dull its surface and help hide the city from German bombers. Some their sucess stories include the Hedgehog anti-submarine weapon and "plastic armour," a light weight non-metallic armour for small vessels.

TriangleMan
2005-Jan-07, 11:48 AM
Welcome to the board carbonite.


Before writing this i did not read anyone else's comment upon this issue

That's a shame, you've missed out on some interesting posts, such as . . .

A scientist in Bermuda says the methane-theory is "a highly speculative theory and for it all to be linked to disappearances in the Bermuda Triangle is a real reach.

Oh, and the article says many of the ship disappearances are a "sham".
Speaking as someone who lives in Bermuda, and knows a thing or two about the insurance industry, the "Bermuda Triangle" does not worry anyone here. It is a very busy section of the sea which constantly has ships and planes going through it. Insurance companies, as well as Lloyd's, do not increase their premium for planes and ships that go through the area - because there is no increased risk of anything happening.

Paul Mitchell
2005-Jan-07, 11:49 AM
Before writing this i did not read anyone else's comment upon this issue so if what i said has already been said, sorry. . . thanks - carbonite
It doesn't show one little bit :lol:

carbonite
2005-Jan-07, 01:41 PM
The only reason i didnt read your guys comments at first was because ive already seen everything u said on the show heh, it kinda covered quite a bit about the issue, yet i have read everyones comments so far after posting my message, but after posting my message, didnt some of u already know the information i have said? or is it all new to you guys?

carbonite
2005-Jan-07, 01:46 PM
Kaptain K wrote :

Methane is odorless. As are ethane, propane and butane. The odor of natural gas (mix of methane and ethane) and LPG (propane or butane) is added at the refinery so that you can smell the leak. Otherwise, the gas could build up to asphyxiating or flammable levels before anyone became aware.


I read in a book in science class, and my teacher also said that methane is added to the gas to give it its scent, methane does to smell, its not oderless, yet you are right about before this was even thought about, no one could smell it which could cause someone to light up a cigerette and blow themself up without any warning.

Nicolas
2005-Jan-07, 02:11 PM
However, it was suggested that the bubbles were effectivelya form of inflight refuelling and could cause a V1 to overfly its target and land in open country.

I thought the V1 used a windmill on the nose cone, which wounded up a wire of precalculated length, which pulled the elevator down when wounded up completely? So giving it extra fuel would not make a difference. And even if you added fuel through the air, the engine's own fuel pump wouldn't be altered, so you would be using the same amount of fuel from inside the V1, only with a different fuel/air ratio in total.


Actually, it's doubtful that a rise cloud of methane would catch fire from even a jet engine. Most jet engines have a bypass airflow to help muffle the engine sound and to mix with the exhaust gases and bring their temperature down somewhat.

Bypass engines are used to increase the efficiency (hence giving more thrust with an equally heavy engine/fuel usage). In these engines, the middle air inlet stream passes through the compressor, combustion chambers, turbine and outlet, while the outside bypass stream only passes through the bypass compressor and its own outlet. After these outlets, the streams are mixed together. This decreases the temperature indeed. The reduced sound is caused by the decreased outlet velocity, and the internal engine is covered by the bypass channel.

If a bypass engine would suck up methane air, the bypass channel would compress this air, and mix it directly with the exhaust fumes from the combusted part of the air. I am just discussing the engine here, I doubt whether there would be enough methane in the air to give an explosion. I would think the internal engine would suffocate, and during the initial phase, the bypass air would give an "afterburner" effect. As the engines are designed to survive an engine fire, I don't think there would be real structural damage. With the engines off and reasonable height, there is indeed time for distress signals, restarts, or to land as good as possible.

I don't believe in the whole Bermud Triangle thing. If more boats or planes disappear on one location, it is caused by pirates(the boats), weather(storms/haze/currents...) or just busy traffic (which cancels out when calculating the percentages). Other causes seem highly improbable to me, and in case of the bermuda triangle we can't even agree whether there ARE more boats/planes going down there than normally...

Nicolas
2005-Jan-07, 04:41 PM
Carbonite, I might be wrong but in this case I'm quite sure that methane IS the main gas, and a sulfide is added to the methane to give it an odour. So, methane is odourless.

TriangleMan
2005-Jan-07, 05:03 PM
So, methane is odourless.
Yes, methane is odourless, as per the Material Safety Data Sheet (http://www.aigco.com/Methane.pdf).

carbonite
2005-Jan-07, 11:05 PM
well if this is true than the new books we recieved at school this year are wrong and my teacher is also wrong. . i was just telling you what ive heard, not what i believe, but what you say is true than, i never heard of adding sulfide to methane, but whatever =)

Moose
2005-Jan-07, 11:49 PM
Speaking as someone who lives in Bermuda, and knows a thing or two about the insurance industry, the "Bermuda Triangle" does not worry anyone here.

I will say that Canadians know the truth about the Bermuda Triangle. It exists. No, really.

You see, that's where so much of our money goes, vanishes, and is never seen again. #-o Ow! What!? :wink:

Nicolas
2005-Jan-08, 09:09 AM
Carbonite,

It is very well possible that your teacher bases his "facts" on that book. And while the book may be wrong, it is also very well possible that the teacher misread it (it wouldn't be the first time).

Anyway, natural gas in its purest form is methane. Other gasses may be added (butane, propane, carbondioxide etc).

Methane is odourless. Mercaptan is added to provide the "egg smell" to your gas, to make leaks detectable.

A good info site is:

http://www.naturalgas.org

It covers all this information, and looks a serious site.

http://www.columbiagaspamd.com/community_outreach/mercaptan.htm
Handles Mercaptan

TriangleMan
2005-Jan-08, 08:37 PM
I will say that Canadians know the truth about the Bermuda Triangle. It exists. No, really.
You see, that's where so much of our money goes, vanishes, and is never seen again. #-o Ow! What!? :wink:
I wish! Actually Canadian money usually "vanishes" into Barbados (http://www.dfait-maeci.gc.ca/latinamerica/barbadosrelations-en.asp). (Hmmm, Barbados Triangle?) :-k