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dgruss23
2003-Oct-23, 11:41 PM
I don't know if somebody already started a thread on this, but apparently there's a new coronal mass ejection headed our way (http://www.spaceweather.com/).

I wonder what the woo woo's will blame this on besides the actual solar physics.

Andromeda321
2003-Oct-23, 11:47 PM
Well since there'll likely be a radio blackout and that sounds really scary I vote the conspiracy theorists will yell at the military. They will say it is a new type of jammer that completely drowns out signals. And the military should admit it because they are responsible, and the fact that the military denies it [-( and there's a logical explination in front of them will be proof that it was the military. And it's a huge coverup. :-$

Wingnut Ninja
2003-Oct-24, 02:09 AM
Already posted here (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=8915), but you actually mentioned the subject in the title.

I think this would make a really cool front page update myself.

sarongsong
2003-Oct-24, 02:30 AM
A previous "big one":
"...What happened in 1859 was a combination of several events that occurred on the Sun at the same time..."What they generated was the perfect space storm," says Bruce Tsurutani, a plasma physicist at JPL...the Sun contains 99.86 percent of the mass of the entire solar system..."
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2003/23oct_superstorm.htm?aol601798

Kaptain K
2003-Oct-24, 10:22 AM
George Noory (C2C) has his listeners all a twitter!

Amadeus
2003-Oct-24, 10:36 AM
I live in the UK. Does anybody know what I can expect to see when this hits us? How often does this happen.

Are the woo woo's going to say this has something to do with Planet X?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Burn baby burn!

Argos
2003-Oct-24, 12:04 PM
I live in the UK. Does anybody know what I can expect to see when this hits us? How often does this happen.

Are the woo woo's going to say this has something to do with Planet X?



Itīs not quite impossible that aurorae reach England in account of an intense solar activity. But CME are rather common occurrences, so I donīt think it will cause any thrill.

Gsquare
2003-Oct-24, 01:44 PM
I live in the UK. Does anybody know what I can expect to see when this hits us? How often does this happen.



X-5 category is quite large (energetic) and doesn't happen that often.
Could get communication disruptions (pagers, cell phones,GPS), satellite damage, or even possible power grid failures.

Although it orbits within the earth's magnetic fields I'd still hate to be in the space station right now. :D
G^2

aporetic_r
2003-Oct-24, 02:12 PM
I predict the following Apollo HB argument: "See, big solar flares happen all the time. If one of those had happened during a trip to the Moon the astronauts would have been killed! Therefore Apollo was fake."

Aporetic

{Eidted for speling.]

jfribrg
2003-Oct-24, 03:22 PM
I live near Philadelphia, which is 40 degrees north. The local news folks have been saying that we might get a Northern Lights display out of this tonight(Friday) or tomorrow night. Does anyone know when the CME will actually reach the Earth? I don't want to head out of town Friday night to find some dark skies if the CME wont reach us till Saturday morning. Also, how dark do the skies need to be in order to see the Northern Lights from this? In my neck of the woods, the skies are about mag 3.5.

SarahMc
2003-Oct-24, 03:50 PM
A sudden impulse was measured around 14:43UT (http://umtof.umd.edu/pm/), most likely from the CME on Oct 22.

Not sure if this will format out...

YR DOY:HR:MN:SC Angle Vth Density Vsw PM_Min PM_Max

2003 297:14:29:24 0.24 36.59 6.86 442.20 104.00 39744.00
2003 297:14:31:26 -0.16 39.09 6.88 441.20 104.00 35504.00
2003 297:14:33:25 -0.39 39.22 6.05 439.60 92.00 31256.00
2003 297:14:35:27 -0.86 38.32 6.55 444.10 99.00 36064.00
2003 297:14:37:27 -0.46 37.26 6.85 445.90 93.00 40712.00
2003 297:14:39:31 -0.05 36.56 8.28 440.80 91.00 46016.00
2003 297:14:41:31 0.77 36.18 7.49 452.30 94.00 47488.00
2003 297:14:43:31 1.01 36.24 9.92 454.10 100.00 61696.00
2003 297:14:45:31 1.10 53.16 10.48 549.80 105.00 72752.00
2003 297:14:47:32 3.66 58.49 36.64 615.20 150.00 184832.00
2003 297:14:49:32 3.37 56.38 40.47 616.80 163.00 204416.00
2003 297:14:51:34 2.89 59.11 39.16 604.50 172.00 201856.00
2003 297:14:53:34 3.58 57.26 42.38 595.20 161.00 218240.00
2003 297:14:55:36 3.37 57.37 42.14 616.90 158.00 205056.00
2003 297:14:57:36 3.28 62.10 42.19 617.70 164.00 206720.00
2003 297:14:59:37 1.91 65.22 32.60 642.40 167.00 174080.00
2003 297:15:01:37 4.11 59.58 44.25 641.60 156.00 220416.00
2003 297:15:03:39 2.52 66.41 37.77 635.60 191.00 184832.00
2003 297:15:05:39 2.30 64.41 39.59 635.30 174.00 193024.00
2003 297:15:07:41 2.25 63.28 42.90 626.70 185.00 203008.00

I've seen much stronger shock fronts in the past. There'll probably be more to come over the next week - 10 days.

KiaraUrania
2003-Oct-24, 05:50 PM
I live near Washington, DC, in America. Any theories as to what I'll be able to see? I'd really like to see some Aurora, considering I've...well, I've never seen it before. But then, I'm only fourteen, so...

Donwulff
2003-Oct-24, 07:02 PM
The strongest solar flare (Yes, that's what it is) in record is from around year 2000, top of the current solar cycle, and it was classed as X17. The one makign the rounds in media now was X5; the solar flare scale is actually logarithmic, so the current one is actually less than tenth of the power of the big one. The whooper is, ofcourse, that this X5 class flare wasn't even earth-directed, and is thus essentially a non-event. The X17 from few years back wasn't earth-directed either, or it WOULD have been an event. As it was, it "only" fried a few communications satellites.

The key-information here is that X-class solar flares happen, even X10+ flares, and like with asteroids, it's only a question of time when one will be earth-directed. Since such a thing hasn't happened in modern times nobody really knows how we'd fare, but global power and communications blackouts (except for closed circuit and fiber) lasting for hours would be almost guaranteed. This in turn would lead to mass panic and confusion, so I think it's definitely something to watch for. Good news to fans of present civilization is that we're currently approaching the bottom of the 11 year solar activity cycle, so it'll be half a decade or so before this becomes a real worry again.

Interestingly though, this week we're seeing some unusually intense activity this far from solar max from our Sun. This weekend two huge sun-spots harboring X class flares are moving across the Sun's earth-facing side. ("Astronomers can't remember the last time this happened: two Jupiter-sized sunspots crossing the face of the sun at the same time.") They're erupting with massive flares abotu every 8 hours, and NOAA is currently giving 50% odds for yet another X-class flare both in 24 and 24-48 hour windows, which means further Earth-skirting X-flares are highly likely.

Ofcourse, most of you are only intereste din catching the big lightshow called aurora ;) Unfortunately, the prospects for this ar every bleak for this weekend, and it requires really specific conditions for them to form. Ofcourse, the odds are still much better than likely in the next half a decade or so, so you might try your luck anyway.

traztx
2003-Oct-24, 10:13 PM
This is very cool... I will have to do some solar observing tomorrow. I wish I had the coronado kit, though...

R.A.F.
2003-Oct-24, 10:22 PM
Silghtly OT, but I just finished observing the Sun, using binoculars to project an image onto a sheet of paper. (WARNING...DO NOT LOOK THROUGH BINOCULARS TO VIEW THE SUN!!!!)

O MAN!!! That Sunspot group is HUGE!!! Projecting the Sun's image up to about a 2 cm. size, I could easily see the "group" almost in the center of the solar disk.

It even impressed my daughter. :)

Jack Higgins
2003-Oct-24, 10:42 PM
I must do that myself too tomorrow- even with my tiny telescope I can get a ~20cm diameter image on a sheet of paper with pretty high quality!

Kebsis
2003-Oct-24, 10:47 PM
Can I do that piece of paper trick with my telescope? Could it harm my scope?

MasterKill
2003-Oct-24, 11:08 PM
Just a comment about what the news people are saying. On CBS nightly news, they said that the Sun will send electromagnetic radiation our way and it will bombard Earth. Umm correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we always hit by electromagnetic radiation? as in light?

Gsquare
2003-Oct-25, 03:20 AM
Silghtly OT, but I just finished observing the Sun, using binoculars to project an image onto a sheet of paper. (WARNING...DO NOT LOOK THROUGH BINOCULARS TO VIEW THE SUN!!!!)

O MAN!!! That Sunspot group is HUGE!!! :)

Yea, RAF. Check out this image of the setting sun from Florida:
http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2003/25oct03/Blomquist1.jpg

Click on the enlarger.

G^2 :D :o

Gsquare
2003-Oct-25, 03:34 AM
Just a comment about what the news people are saying. On CBS nightly news, they said that the Sun will send electromagnetic radiation our way and it will bombard Earth. Umm correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we always hit by electromagnetic radiation? as in light?

Types of radiation emitted in a solar flare: http://hesperia.gsfc.nasa.gov/sftheory/flare.htm

:wink:

R.A.F.
2003-Oct-25, 11:59 AM
Yea, RAF. Check out this image of the setting sun from Florida:
http://www.spaceweather.com/swpod2003/25oct03/Blomquist1.jpg

Thanks, Gsquare, that is an amazing image!

I can imagine that's just how Galileo saw the Sun, when he discovered Sunspots.

R.A.F.
2003-Oct-25, 12:09 PM
Can I do that piece of paper trick with my telescope? Could it harm my scope?

Good question. On Fraser Cain's "Universe Today" site, he states that if might effect the glue within the tube. Don't think it would hurt for a brief time. Just make sure you don't accidentally look through the scope!! (I know you know this...I just want to make sure that everyone knows. Better safe than sorry).

Kaptain K
2003-Oct-25, 12:16 PM
Can I do that piece of paper trick with my telescope? Could it harm my scope?
It won't hurt the objective (mirror or lens). :D There is a (slight) possibility that you could "cook" the eyepiece if you leave it pointed at the sun for a long time.

FWIW - I have done this with binoculars (7x35, 7x50 and 10x50), a 2.4 inch (60mm) refractor, a 4.5 inch (114mm) Newtonian reflector, 8 inch Newtonian reflector, 8 inch Schmidt-Cassegrain and a 12 inch refractor without damaging any of them. 8)

chaotica
2003-Oct-25, 01:43 PM
Just a comment about what the news people are saying. On CBS nightly news, they said that the Sun will send electromagnetic radiation our way and it will bombard Earth. Umm correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't we always hit by electromagnetic radiation? as in light?

Looks like a new piece of bad astronomy. A CME consists of electrically charged particles and that's what is going to bombard Earth.
Being hit by electromagnetic radiation is indeed nothing unusual ;-)

Gsquare
2003-Oct-25, 03:11 PM
Here's the view of the proton shock wave which hit the earth (actually measured from SOHO proton counter) yesterday (Oct24th) at about 15hrs UT. This was the result of the Oct. 23rd flare (about 8 Hrs. UT).

The top graph shows the increase in proton velocity.
The second graph shows the spike in proton density at that same time (increasing > 600%). :o

You'll have to click on within 24 hrs or so of this post since the graph updates every 10 minutes and eventually scrolls out of view in 48 hrs. After that you can go to the bottom set of graphs which has a longer time line.
Click here:
http://umtof.umd.edu/pm/

G^2 8)

Donwulff
2003-Oct-25, 07:32 PM
While beign hit bye lectromagnetic radiation is not unusual, depending on the exact context the statement may also be correct. Sun is made of hydrogen, that is protons, and each solar flare spews a lot of those protons into the wide open space (Called CME or Coronal Mass Ejection). When they hit Earth, they cause aurora.

However, solar flares also cause a lot of emissions on the electromagnetic spectrum, in fact they're practically defined through the x-ray burst associated with them. The classification on the "power" of such flares is based on the logarithmic strength of the x-ray burst released by them. Our atmosphere will filter out these x-rays, so only people outside the atmosphere (high altitude planes or space) need to worry. Radiowave-sweeps are also associated with solar events, and can theoretically disturb communications on Earth (though the inonization will do even more). Because of this whole speed of light thing all these effects on the electromagnetic spectrum reach Earth hours or days before the actual CME reaches Earth, and are thus used for predicting the CME impact.

But the bottom line is that there are some unusual electromagnetic effects associated with solar flares, however they're not a very significant or observable concern on Earth.

Eroica
2003-Oct-25, 07:57 PM
Wecome to the board, Donwulff, and thanks for all the info. According to an article I read recently, it takes CME's about 36 hours to reach Earth. At that rate, the particles must be travelling at over 1,000 kps.

chaotica
2003-Oct-25, 08:22 PM
Be careful with linking CMEs to solar flares - these two are not necessarily connected to each other! See http://hesperia.gsfc.nasa.gov/sftheory/cme.htm

sarongsong
2003-Oct-25, 08:23 PM
Saturday (today) noon---local astronomy store has 3 scopes in parking lot for public viewing of Sun.
The line was too long to wait, but one long-time observer said there was a distinct "cross" in the lower sunspot, something he'd never seen in his 20 years of looking; straight lines.

Gsquare
2003-Oct-26, 03:25 AM
According to an article I read recently, it takes CME's about 36 hours to reach Earth. At that rate, the particles must be travelling at over 1,000 kps.

Some portions of the stream can get that high but the average is somewhat lower.
See my last post for an accurate measure of the solar wind velocity measured at SOHO for the last proton shock wave that came through on Oct. 24. It peaked at around 670 kps. There were previous days in Oct. that were higher.
However, if you look at the charts you'll notice its the proton density that is significant in the recent CME, indicating a higher amount of mass ejection, at least, in our direction.
Here's the site again (originally posted also by SarahMc earlier) if you want to compare: http://umtof.umd.edu/pm/

Here's another graph with a little more detail showing the shock wave hitting at 14:48 UT, Oct 24: http://umtof.umd.edu/pm/fig242.gif
Click on the enlarger.
:wink:
G^2

John Kierein
2003-Oct-26, 04:28 PM
Another X-class flare today (Sunday 10/26). CME should arrive Monday or Tuesday. Pretty unusual for this late in the solar cycle.

Gsquare
2003-Oct-26, 05:49 PM
Another X-class flare today (Sunday 10/26). CME should arrive Monday or Tuesday. Pretty unusual for this late in the solar cycle.

Yep; Here is the solar photon monitor showing a very high x-ray flux increase (again) on Oct 26, ~5 hrs UT, indicating another solar flare event.
http://umtof.umd.edu/sem =D>

I wonder what the hard X and gamma rates are running? I don't think we even have that capability right now, do we? Either way I'd hate to be in the the ISS right now. :cry:

G^2

Gsquare
2003-Oct-26, 06:16 PM
Another X-class flare today (Sunday 10/26). CME should arrive Monday or Tuesday. Pretty unusual for this late in the solar cycle.

I just found the answer to one of my own questions. Here's the GOES X ray flux data: http://www.sec.noaa.gov/rt_plots/xray_5mBL.html

It not only shows the previous event at 5 hrs UT today, but also shows ANOTHER flare of equal (or greater) magnitude within the last 10 minutes!! :o 8)

I love this real time stuff. :D

Still, I'd like to know if we can get gamma rates if anyone knows. :-k

G^2

ObiWan377
2003-Oct-26, 06:19 PM
How often will flares like this happen? Do these occur often or are they rare occurances?

Gsquare
2003-Oct-26, 06:27 PM
Unpredictable; this month has been rather unusal, especially since we are in the quiet season.

G^2 :wink:

ObiWan377
2003-Oct-26, 06:30 PM
Wait a minute.....aren't solar flares supposed to be bad? Like "fry the earth" bad? Or is that some more hooey that I read?

Gsquare
2003-Oct-26, 06:37 PM
Obi; read some sites given previously like the one by Chaotica for some background info. http://hesperia.gsfc.nasa.gov/sftheory/cme.htm

ObiWan377
2003-Oct-26, 06:42 PM
That answers my question. Some of the images shown are pretty neat. Think SOHO will get some more like that?

Donwulff
2003-Oct-26, 06:55 PM
http://www.sec.noaa.gov/primer/primer.html has a nice summary on coronal holes, prominences, flares and coronal mass ejections. While CME's and flares are not always linked, I would tend to say that practically all of the large events that'd been of interest on Earth (Well, at least to the media;) have been a combination of a flare and CME.

Gsquare
2003-Oct-26, 08:06 PM
Yes, appears to be a decent primer, Donwulff.

Here's an interesting quote:
"Solar protons with energies greater than 30 MeV are particularly hazardous. In October 1989, the Sun produced enough energetic particles that an astronaut on the Moon, wearing only a space suit and caught out in the brunt of the storm, would probably have died."

Hmmm... Makes me kinda glad I didn't get to go on the last lunar trip. :wink:

G^2

newt
2003-Oct-26, 09:22 PM
Takes a while to download, and not easy to navigate, but visit this link:
"http://www.lmsal.com/solarsoft/latest_events/"

Click on an event number in the table at the bottom to see more info about that event.

Scroll to the sequence of B&W pictures of the sun with a green line running across them (representing Bulk Speed) and click on any picture will lead you to another page with GIF and MPEG movies of that time-frame (12 hours).

Cheers. Newt.

Gsquare
2003-Oct-26, 11:16 PM
Takes a while to download, and not easy to navigate, but visit this link:
"http://www.lmsal.com/solarsoft/latest_events/"

Click on an event number in the table at the bottom to see more info about that event.

Scroll to the sequence of B&W pictures of the sun with a green line running across them (representing Bulk Speed) and click on any picture will lead you to another page with GIF and MPEG movies of that time-frame (12 hours).

Cheers. Newt.

Ahh, I really like it! =D> especially since it clearly labels what category each flare reaches and when it crosses into the X level category; (in the first strip chart).

Notice the two flares today resemble the two on Oct 23rd, both reaching the X category, but today's flares each lasted MUCH longer.
However, it is interesting to note that on each of these days the time between the two flare max. was almost exactly the same -- about 12 hrs. each (which may give a clue to the mechanism)
Also if you go back to Oct.22, the only flare that got to category X (almost- it was m-9.9) occurred almost 12 hours prior to the first Oct 23rd X flare.

Can you see the pattern? It seems as if when an X category is reached, a 12 hour repeat is inevitable.

Also I really like the 2nd strip chart 8) since it gives an excellent revelation of the proton energy distribution.

Notice on the Oct.23rd flares, as large as they were, only had a small density of protons which were > 10 mev. whereas today's 2nd flare blasted the density way up for proton energies greater than 50 mev. !! :o

Thanks again for the site,Newt :wink:

G^2

Donwulff
2003-Oct-27, 03:30 AM
Main reason for the differences is probably that these two flares were much more into Earth's directiont han the earlier ones. In fact, it seems the CME from one of the earlier flares completely missed Earth, or possibly they joined together (That happens now and then).

Also, at least one of the recent flares was a proton flare, which is why you see the almost immediate jump in >10MeV energy protons. That's going to cause a nice geomagnetic storm, altough NOAA is only giving K index 4 warning for now (Earlier this week we hit 7, but conditions weren't ripe for aurora). Maybe it'll pick up. And more flares/CME's are still expected.

Charlie in Dayton
2003-Oct-27, 07:02 AM
Speakin' of binoculoculars, you can look at the sun safely with these...

http://www.buytelescopes.com/products/images/5024.jpg

Wish I had a spare hundred or so... (http://www.buytelescopes.com/product.asp?m=&pid=5024&display=reviews)...these could be fun...

sarongsong
2003-Oct-27, 07:17 AM
Oooh, what about mylar lens-caps w/regular binoculars?

aurora
2003-Oct-27, 06:40 PM
Oooh, what about mylar lens-caps w/regular binoculars?

The Baader film could be used for this. With the usual caveats: use only the film that is expressly sold for the purpose of using with a telescope, place the film over the objective (filter the light BEFORE it reaches the binos or telescope), and be careful that there is no way the material could fall off during use.

8)

AntEater
2003-Oct-27, 08:43 PM
Hi
I'm a regular lurker here, nice board
I had thought about registering for a while and it is stupid it has to be something like this.
But this ongoing solar activity deeply worries me. I dont need any Godlike board or so (I dont go there), I'm my own Godlike, I'm afraid. I dont really even know what I'm worried about exactly. X-Flares and stuff happen, it is just the odd timing.
This whole thing is affecting my life, ever since Thursday I'm somewhat maimed by the whole thing. I stare too much at GOES diagrams and SOHO images and do mostly nothing else.
Ironically it was the World Weekly news article that somebody else mentioned that got me interested in Solar things (and astronomy in general) in first place (I had to debunk it somehow). Thats how I came to this board.
But somehow this fear I had then never left me and now it has broken out seriously. For about 1 year I've been visiting astronomy sites and became interested in such stuff without any fearmongering, just because it is a fascinating topic totally unknown to me before. And I think I've read pretty much everything available on the web about such things, so I'm not really a total layperson anymore....
I just thought I had to write that, even though I wanted to join this board anyway, under better circumstances.

SarahMc
2003-Oct-27, 08:53 PM
I'm afraid. I dont really even know what I'm worried about exactly. X-Flares and stuff happen, it is just the odd timing.
This whole thing is affecting my life, ever since Thursday I'm somewhat maimed by the whole thing. I stare too much at GOES diagrams and SOHO images and do mostly nothing else.

Lay your fears to rest and enjoy the show that's being presented to us. The current solar events aren't life threatening, nor are they a long term occurance. There were much stronger events over the last three years through solar maximum. We're on the downside of activity now, but that doesn't mean that some strong events can't take place, right up to and through solar minimum.

This last solar maximum was a pretty poor show compared to some previous cycles.

And welcome to the BA board!

SeanF
2003-Oct-27, 09:01 PM
Hi
I'm a regular lurker here, nice board
Welcome aboard, AntEater! Speaking as someone who also lurked a while before posting, it's great. Jump right in! :)

X-Flares and stuff happen, it is just the odd timing.
What's odd about the timing?

AntEater
2003-Oct-27, 09:14 PM
Thanks,
Well, there hasnt been much going on for the last months and I actually expected nothing like the current activity for the next 5-6 years. But of course I'm no real expert, all I know I either read here or anywhere else on the web. But the mainstream media hasnt been picky with adjectives like that either (ok, the mainstream media :roll: ).
One good side of that worry, it got me interested in such topics and this board played a big role in that, but currently the old very unscientific fear has taken hold of me again, sadly...
Btw, I'm not the least worried about exploding Jupiters or Planet Xs or any other of that stuff (I only read about Planet X on this site)

Kaptain K
2003-Oct-27, 10:00 PM
One thing many forget (or don't realise) is that these things (solar flares CME's, etc) have been going on since the Sun first ignited (5 billion years ago). It has only been in the last century that they have affected us (power failures, communication interuptions, etc) and only within the last few years (since the launching of SOHO and other satellites) that we have been able to accurately predict them. Unfortunately, some have equated new information with new phenomenon. The danger (infinitesimal) is no greater now than it has ever been.

SeanF
2003-Oct-27, 10:52 PM
Thanks,
Well, there hasnt been much going on for the last months and I actually expected nothing like the current activity for the next 5-6 years.
Oh, okay. That's not what I thought you meant by "odd timing" - I thought you were talking about a 'coincidence' where this was happening at the same time as something else.

At any rate, things are always happening that have never happened before! :D


Btw, I'm not the least worried about exploding Jupiters or Planet Xs or any other of that stuff (I only read about Planet X on this site)

That's a good thing! :) And this site is a great place to get info on things like that (or these solar flares, for that matter). There are a lot of knowledgable folks around these parts.

George
2003-Oct-27, 11:06 PM
Considering the amount of energy in a CME, isn't there any way to harness or at least play with it? Hate to see it go to waste.

For instance, could we strip down an old model T and add coils (several angled for selectable vectors) with batteries/solar cells and have it putt around? You'd probably get Ford to pay for it. Might set a new mileage/speed record! :lol:

sarongsong
2003-Oct-28, 08:36 PM
aurora wrote:

The Baader film could be used for this [binoculars]. With the usual caveats...
The local telescope store sells Baader material for $36.00/sq.ft.
Salesman says its made of "thin mylar". Went next door and bought a 99 cent bag of potato chips in a mylar bag, cut two pieces out of it, taped them securely over the ends of my binoculars and looked thru them at the Sun. Works just fine.

Donwulff
2003-Oct-28, 08:41 PM
You have to be careful with those things though, visible light is not the only radiation you need to be concerned about. (The old "cheap sunglasses" argument). As it's impossible for the amateur to measure those ranges, I wouldn't personally trust anything self-cooked. Thenagain, there isn't much guarantee that anything bought meets all the safety requirements either... Really, I think reflecting the images to a canvas is the safest method and probably ought to be enough for the amateur.

aurora
2003-Oct-28, 09:02 PM
Went next door and bought a 99 cent bag of potato chips in a mylar bag, cut two pieces out of it, taped them securely over the ends of my binoculars and looked thru them at the Sun. Works just fine.

NOOOO! :cry:

The bag you bought, while it may be made of mylar, was not designed nor intended for the use that you are putting it to. Therefore, it was never tested to make sure it was consistent and defect free for using for solar viewing.

You took a chance of damaging your vision, just to save a couple of dollars. Bad trade off!

sarongsong
2003-Oct-29, 12:35 AM
Good advice from both of you, thanks. Just took a quick peek and have no intention of making this a regular practice. Will invest in some Baader mylar as time and money allow. Smoke from the San Diego fires also diluted direct sunlight, even tho they are 40 miles east.

sarongsong
2003-Oct-29, 12:52 AM
X-17 today
http://spaceweather.com
http://spaceweather.com/images2003/28oct03/20031028_1218_c3_strip.gif

Gsquare
2003-Oct-29, 01:13 AM
Whooooa! Awesome, Sarongsong. :o X 17 !! Third largest on record! I didn't think it was going to be a minor event after seeing those >50 Mev protons densities. I blinked today and it happened. :D

Exit velocity up to 2100 km/sec.!! ..... Checking out the numbers.

Ok, here's the X-ray data from GOES:
http://www.sec.noaa.gov/rt_plots/xray_5mBL.html
Cheez..

G^2

Donwulff
2003-Oct-29, 01:22 AM
More interestingly, Solar Radiation Storm levels have rised to Severe (S4) and still rising, defined by NOAA as:

Biological: unavoidable radiation hazard to astronauts on EVA; elevated radiation exposure to passengers and crew in commercial jets at high latitudes (approximately 10 chest x-rays) is possible.

Satellite operations: may experience memory device problems and noise on imaging systems; star-tracker problems may cause orientation problems, and solar panel efficiency can be degraded.

Other systems: blackout of HF radio communications through the polar regions and increased navigation errors over several days are likely.

According to http://umtof.umd.edu/pm/flare/ the energetic particle flow is quickly approaching record levels.

Gsquare
2003-Oct-29, 01:30 AM
More interestingly, Solar Radiation Storm levels have rised to Severe (S4) and still rising, defined by NOAA as:

Biological: unavoidable radiation hazard to astronauts on EVA; .............

That's what I was concerned about from the beginning, even without EVA.

Thanks for the info though. High radiation dosages for the ISS are inevitable now. :cry:


According to http://umtof.umd.edu/pm/flare/ the energetic particle flow is quickly approaching record levels.

Yes thanks for showing that again; that's exactly what I said two days ago even before this flare when energies got beyond 50 mev. It seemed to be a precursor. 8-[

Here's some more on the x ray counts: http://umtof.umd.edu/sem

G^2

P.S. I'm out of town on a borrowed PC so I won't be able to keep up for awhile; Hope the hardlines aren't fried by the time I get back! :wink:

newt
2003-Oct-29, 09:12 PM
A ham posted this link on the SARA (amateur radio astronomy) list.
Great reading.

"http://www.dxlc.com/solar/"

Cheers. Newt.

George
2003-Oct-29, 10:29 PM
More interestingly, Solar Radiation Storm levels have rised to Severe (S4) and still rising, defined by NOAA as:

Biological: unavoidable radiation hazard to astronauts on EVA; .............

That's what I was concerned about from the beginning, even without EVA.

Thanks for the info though. High radiation dosages for the ISS are inevitable now. :cry:

This from the NASA web.


The increased solar activity is also having an effect on the International Space Station. Tuesday and Wednesday, the Expedition 8 crew of Commander Mike Foale and Flight Engineer Alexander Kaleri will spend brief periods of time in the aft end of the Zvezda Service Module, which is the location aboard the Station most shielded from higher levels of radiation.

Is the tail of all air/space craft always safer? :)

sarongsong
2003-Oct-30, 08:36 PM
"Japan Loses 2nd Satellite to Solar Flare..."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?I27D31366

John Kierein
2003-Oct-30, 09:39 PM
Kp is back to 9 again on 10/30

Gsquare
2003-Nov-02, 03:53 PM
A ham posted this link on the SARA (amateur radio astronomy) list.
Great reading.

"http://www.dxlc.com/solar/"

Cheers. Newt.

Thanks for the site, Newt. He does give a good chart on the sunspot number increase and a good verbal analysis of the recent activity for those less inclined to get it from the charts.

On the date of my last post ( the date of the X 17 storm), I pulled the SOHO (LASCO/EIT) image and noticed that it was so degraded as a result of proton impingement on the CCD imagers that it looked like it had been used for target practice in a shooting gallery. I quess it was! :D
Your site shows a similar one, at least as of today, and demonstates how even 'shielded' equipment can be easily penetrated.

G^2

Gsquare
2003-Nov-02, 04:05 PM
The increased solar activity is also having an effect on the International Space Station. Tuesday and Wednesday, the Expedition 8 crew of Commander Mike Foale and Flight Engineer Alexander Kaleri will spend brief periods of time in the aft end of the Zvezda Service Module, which is the location aboard the Station most shielded from higher levels of radiation.

Is the tail of all air/space craft always safer? :)

Apparently, that's where they do the chromosome replacement therapy. :D :wink:

G^2

Gsquare
2003-Nov-02, 05:49 PM
Another X category flare - just this hour.
http://umtof.umd.edu/sem

However, this storm is headed toward the solor edge so we probably won't get hit too bad.
Quite unusual stuff going on though.

G^2

carolyn
2003-Nov-02, 10:37 PM
So do I read this right - more large flares/storms untill the 5th November?

about now I am feeling a bit sorry for the people in the space station :(

Manchurian Taikonaut
2005-Jul-06, 12:32 PM
We have had Soho, Ulysses - NASA/ESA, Transition Region and Coronal Explorer, Yohkoh (Japan), Genesis, RHESSI, Skylab and there are some great future Sun missions

Solar Dynamics Observatory (SDO) is a NASA plan, SDO will provide us with the tools and scientific understanding that will enable us to improve the quality of forecasts of solar activity, Solar sentinel is another NASA mission it will get us to model and understand the connection between solar phenomena and Geospace disturbances
http://www.techbriefs.com/spinoff/spinoff2002/hq1.html
solar experiment for 2007 launch
http://www.spacehike.com/2007solar.html

Chang'e 1 will be a Chinese moon mission and carry a high-energy sun particle detector

http://www.esa.int/esaSC/SEMTWG1A6BD_index_0.html

Solar Orbiter will orbit the Sun, approaching as close as 45 solar radii (one solar radius is one-half the Sun's width). Regular gravity-assist manoeuvres at Venus will tilt the orbit, bringing the spacecraft to increasingly higher latitudes.
The extended mission will be completed end Oct 2020.
http://sci.esa.int/science-e/www/area/index.cfm?fareaid=45
Video of mission
http://sci.esa.int/science-e-media/video/41/352_Solo2_WMV_VBR_80_MP31.avi

Kullat Nunu
2005-Jul-06, 12:47 PM
Don't forget STEREO (http://stereo.gsfc.nasa.gov/), a dual spacecraft mission which is to study coronal mass ejections in 3D!