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Abbadon_2008
2008-Oct-18, 11:58 PM
That's right! Just got this fully authentic email today....


ROBERT MUELLER III
EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FBI
FEDERAL BUREAU OF INVESTIGATION FBI.WASHINGTON DC.
Email: mailoffice@fed-bureau-investigations.org
FBI SEEKING TO WIRETAP INTERNET


ATTENTION:

We believe this notification meets you in a very good present state of mind and health. We the Federal bureau of investigation (FBI) Washington, DC in conjunction with some other relevant Investigation Agencies here in the United states of America have recently been informed through our Global intelligence monitoring network that you presently have a transaction going on with the Central Bank of Nigeria (CBN) as regards to your over-due contract payment which was fully endorsed in your favor accordingly.

We will find a way to fix a schedule for you to come to our head-quarter in Washington DC to enable us advise you on what to do, but meanwhile you are further advised to be contacting us via email for now because we are having various investigations that we are working on now. Keep everything regarding to your transaction confidential for security reasons and note that we have not informed the local FBI department in your state regarding this matter because we want to keep everything secret until your fund is been transferred to you accordingly. We the FBI have purposely create an email in order for us to contact you personally and our phone codes departments are not aware of this new improvement,so don't call our service line regarding this email, soon we will provide you with a line you can call for more information about this contract winning funds.

For the main time we the Federal Bureau of Investigation Washington DC will be helping you to monitor all the transaction with the Central Bank of Nigeria. we want you to have in mind that we are trying to protect you because your inheritance fund that is about to be transferred to you is a large amount of money, and we will advise you not to inform any one about this transaction until the corresponding bank have successfully transferred your inheritance fund.



"FBI SEEKING TO WIRETAP INTERNET" What the...? Wiretapping the net has nothing to do with this! And when did I have relatives in Nigeria? And why would the 'Global intelligence monitoring network' care about it?


We will find a way to fix a schedule for you to come to our head-quarter in Washington DC to enable us advise you on what to do,

'Head-quarter'? Is that anything like 'headquarters'? And I thought the FBI HQ was in Richmond, VA. That's where Scully and Mulder always went.


We were also made to understand that a lady with name Mrs. Joan C. Bailey from OHIO has already contacted them and also presented to them all the necessary documentations evidencing your claim purported to have been signed personally by you prior to the release of your contract fund valued at about US$8,000,000.00 (Eight million united states dollars), but the Central Bank office did the wise thing by insisting on hearing from you personally before the go ahead on wiring your fund to the Bank informations which was forwarded to them by the above named Lady so that was the main reason why they contacted us so as to assist them in making the investigations.


$8 Mil from a long-lost kinsman in Central Africa? Well, slap my *** and call me Molly! Lemme hop the nearest plane to Abuja (the captial) and get this deal sealed ASAP!


Ensure you follow all their procedure as may be required by them as that will further help hasten up the whole procedures as regards to the transfer of your fund to you as designated. Also have in mind that the Central Bank of Nigeria equally have their own protocol of operation as stipulated on their banking terms, so delay could be very dangerous. Once again, we will advise that you contact them with the above email address and make sure you forward to them all the necessary informations which they may require from you prior to the release of your fund to you accordingly.


Well, of course. But, ahhh...why didn't you send your agents out in person to chat with me? I mean, if it's 'dangerous' and all...But why am I complaining? A dead previously-unknown relative has left me $8,000,000, in a foreign bank!

This is, by far, the most sophisticated scam letter I've ever seen. It's swimming with factual and grammtical inaccuracies that tipped me off, but still complex. Some folks might actually fall for this scheme. But I'm just too hardcore and paranoid!:whistle:

eric_marsh
2008-Oct-19, 12:05 AM
Don't do it. I saw on TV where cops were calling people with outstanding warrants and telling them that they had won a prize but needed to pick it up in person at the police station. They caught quite a few that way.

Eight million. Man, the FBI must want you bad. Can I borrow your ID and pick it up for you? I'll split it 50/50. :)

Moose
2008-Oct-19, 12:11 AM
*lol* I love that email address. Since when does a US government enforcement agency use the (non-profit) .org TLD?

Of course, it's a little depressing to consider how many people are going to fall for that.

tdvance
2008-Oct-19, 12:49 AM
yeah, I'm pretty sure the FBI's address is just "fbi.gov", and they might also have e-mails on fbi.ic.gov as well.

Neverfly
2008-Oct-19, 01:23 AM
I still love the one I got about the Nun Whose husband the archbishop had died...

WaxRubiks
2008-Oct-19, 04:09 AM
When I read it, I can see someone chewing a pencil, and saying "umm, umm.... oh yeah" and then adding an extra bit of FBI authenticated juiciness

Abbadon_2008
2008-Oct-19, 04:19 AM
When I read it, I can see someone chewing a pencil, and saying "umm, umm.... oh yeah" and then adding an extra bit of FBI authenticated juiciness

Same here, except I saw two other people hanging over his shoulder, critiquing him as he went along. One was flipping through a 'Nigerian Scam Artist-to-English Dictionary', and highlighting key phrases.

Neverfly
2008-Oct-19, 05:12 AM
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gifhttp://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

sarongsong
2008-Oct-19, 06:36 AM
...What the...? Wiretapping the net has nothing to do with this!...
"The medium is the message." :)


Results 1 - 10 of about 572 for "FBI SEEKING TO WIRETAP INTERNET" (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=opera&rls=en&hs=b9l&q=%22FBI+SEEKING+TO+WIRETAP+INTERNET%22&btnG=Search)

They don't have the money or resources to do it, but a certain security agency does:
October 18 Saturday 10 PM,
October 19 Sunday 6 & 9 PM and
October 20 Monday 12 AM, ET

James Bamford,
The Shadow Factory: The Ultra-Secret NSA from 9/11 to the Eavesdropping on America
In his latest book, James Bamford takes a behind-the-scenes look at the National Security Agency and its domestic surveillance program following the terrorist attacks on 9/11. Mr. Bamford, a former producer for ABC's World News Tonight with Peter Jennings, has written about the NSA in two previous books -- The Puzzle Palace (1982) and Body of Secrets (2001). He discusses his latest book with Jonathan Landay, national security and intelligence correspondent for McClatchy. Mr. Landay previously worked for Knight Ridder and the Christian Science Monitor.
C-SPAN2 TV (http://www.booktv.org/)

mugaliens
2008-Oct-19, 12:22 PM
And as nearly all terrorists in the US are foreigners, that task went to, under the various governing laws, the NSA (who collects the data) and the CIA (who uses the data).

Sorry, FBI.

Still, when the time comes to bag 'em and tag 'em, or conduct on-soil efforts (surveillance) that task will fall to the FBI.

eric_marsh
2008-Oct-19, 01:00 PM
And as nearly all terrorists in the US are foreigners, that task went to, under the various governing laws, the NSA (who collects the data) and the CIA (who uses the data).


Actually, I think most of the terrorists in the US are natives.

Gruesome
2008-Oct-19, 01:43 PM
I'm sure Gillian would have a field day critiquing that little nugget. Here are a few things I found particularly curious.

1) "...you are further advised to be contacting us via email for now because we are having various investigations that we are working on now."

Okay...apart from obvious clumsiness of the language, I imagine the FBI is conducting investigations all the time. I never knew they shut down the phones during investigations.

2) "Keep everything regarding to your transaction confidential for security reasons..."

Sounds like a good idea, but later on they say...

"...a lady with name Mrs. Joan C. Bailey from OHIO..."

They've (assuming this was from the FBI) just let slip a confidential piece of information, which may end up blowing the whole 'investigation' out of the water. Not smart.

3) "...note that we have not informed the local FBI department in your state regarding this matter because we want to keep everything secret until your fund is been transferred to you accordingly."

I just had to laugh at this one. Sounds like a great concept for a movie.

4) "We the FBI have purposely create an email in order for us to contact you personally and our phone codes departments are not aware of this new improvement..."

Wha!?!? The FBI phone department is unaware of Email? A bit behind the curve, are they?

5) "Ensure you follow all their procedure as may be required by them as that will further help hasten up the whole procedures..."

I'm sorry folks, government agencies don't talk like this.

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-19, 09:07 PM
If this is a real scam, not a fake scam, how is the scamee supposed to make
contact with the scammer? Via the given e-mail address? What I like about
that address is its generality. mailoffice@fed-bureau-investigations.org looks
like everyone at the FBI shares one address. Cost-saving measure, no doubt.

Would it be useful for me to reply to scammers with suggestions for improving
their grammar and pseudofacts? Or do they prefer them as they are?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

chrissy
2008-Oct-19, 09:32 PM
ROTFLMAO!
If you tell them, then we here can't pick faults and laugh at their determination.
These guys try all sorts of ways, and what ever you do don't reply to their E-mails (info for those who don't know what to do).
I helped snare a few earlier this year, but these guys have back up guys when one group are arrested and it carries on. They go into lonely hearts sites too and pick on the vulnerable.
Not everyone is aware of the scams and think they have just come into money give out information they have asked for, it is sad but true.....*sarcastic mode* and end up on chat shows I was scammed out of "X" amount of money.

mahesh
2008-Oct-20, 02:36 AM
And as nearly all terrorists in the US are foreigners, that task went to, .....

mugs, i didn't think you were capable of saying such a thing!

besides the rest of it .... would make nice compost, ready for bagging, too!

i'll save the accompanying adjective(s), for later use.

Neverfly
2008-Oct-20, 02:42 AM
mugs, i didn't think you were capable of saying such a thing!

besides the rest of it .... would make nice compost, ready for bagging, too!

i'll save the accompanying adjective(s), for later use.

What.. Do you disagree?
I see nothing wrong with what he said at all.
Far Far more terrorists committing acts of terrorism within the United States are not from the United States.
Unless you have evidence otherwise...

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-20, 03:46 AM
I'm not aware of many people of any origin committing acts of "terrorism"
(whatever that term means) in the USA, but I wouldn't be at all surprised
if more than 90% of them were born in the USA.

Editing to add: I'd guess that the most widespread and common "terrorist"
acts are done by street gangs, mainly in inter-gang "warfare" and stealing
drugs and drug money from each other. I presume that the large majority
of gang members are homegrown.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Neverfly
2008-Oct-20, 04:01 AM
Gang members?

Sheesh... Do we need to define what a terrorist is prior to debating where the majority of them are?

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-20, 04:13 AM
Well, I further presume that the gang members who engage in violent acts
that threaten the community have origins representative of gang members
in general. I have no idea what percentage of gang members participate
in such acts. It could be very small.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-20, 04:39 AM
Pfft! I'm getting $800 billion thanks to this email I got!

DEAR AMERICAN:

I NEED TO ASK YOU TO SUPPORT AN URGENT SECRET BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP WITH A TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF GREAT MAGNITUDE.

I AM MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY OF THE REPUBLIC OF AMERICA. MY COUNTRY HAS HAD CRISIS THAT HAS CAUSED THE NEED FOR LARGE TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF 800 BILLION DOLLARS US. IF YOU WOULD ASSIST ME IN THIS TRANSFER, IT WOULD BE MOST PROFITABLE TO YOU.

I AM WORKING WITH MR. PHIL GRAM, LOBBYIST FOR UBS, WHO WILL BE MY REPLACEMENT AS MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY IN JANUARY. AS A SENATOR, YOU MAY KNOW HIM AS THE LEADER OF THE AMERICAN BANKING DEREGULATION MOVEMENT IN THE 1990S. THIS TRANSACTIN IS 100% SAFE.

THIS IS A MATTER OF GREAT URGENCY. WE NEED A BLANK CHECK. WE NEED THE FUNDS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. WE CANNOT DIRECTLY TRANSFER THESE FUNDS IN THE NAMES OF OUR CLOSE FRIENDS BECAUSE WE ARE CONSTANTLY UNDER SURVEILLANCE. MY FAMILY LAWYER ADVISED ME THAT I SHOULD LOOK FOR A RELIABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY PERSON WHO WILL ACT AS A NEXT OF KIN SO THE FUNDS CAN BE TRANSFERRED.

PLEASE REPLY WITH ALL OF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, IRA AND COLLEGE FUND ACCOUNT NUMBERS AND THOSE OF YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN TO WALLSTREETBAILOUT@TREASURY.GOV SO THAT WE MAY TRANSFER YOUR COMMISSION FOR THIS TRANSACTION. AFTER I RECEIVE THAT INFORMATION, I WILL RESPOND WITH DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT SAFEGUARDS THAT WILL BE USED TO PROTECT THE FUNDS.

YOURS FAITHFULLY MINISTER OF TREASURY PAULSONBeat that! :p

Tobin Dax
2008-Oct-20, 04:49 AM
"Dear American" and "my country." The scammer must be trying to target Canadians and Mexicans with this email. :shifty:

Whirlpool
2008-Oct-20, 04:57 AM
Pfft! I'm getting $800 billion thanks to this email I got!
Beat that! :p


Originally Posted by MINISTER OF TREASURY PAULSON
DEAR AMERICAN:

I NEED TO ASK YOU TO SUPPORT AN URGENT SECRET BUSINESS RELATIONSHIP WITH A TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF GREAT MAGNITUDE.

I AM MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY OF THE REPUBLIC OF AMERICA. MY COUNTRY HAS HAD CRISIS THAT HAS CAUSED THE NEED FOR LARGE TRANSFER OF FUNDS OF 800 BILLION DOLLARS US. IF YOU WOULD ASSIST ME IN THIS TRANSFER, IT WOULD BE MOST PROFITABLE TO YOU.

I AM WORKING WITH MR. PHIL GRAM, LOBBYIST FOR UBS, WHO WILL BE MY REPLACEMENT AS MINISTRY OF THE TREASURY IN JANUARY. AS A SENATOR, YOU MAY KNOW HIM AS THE LEADER OF THE AMERICAN BANKING DEREGULATION MOVEMENT IN THE 1990S. THIS TRANSACTIN IS 100% SAFE.

THIS IS A MATTER OF GREAT URGENCY. WE NEED A BLANK CHECK. WE NEED THE FUNDS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE. WE CANNOT DIRECTLY TRANSFER THESE FUNDS IN THE NAMES OF OUR CLOSE FRIENDS BECAUSE WE ARE CONSTANTLY UNDER SURVEILLANCE. MY FAMILY LAWYER ADVISED ME THAT I SHOULD LOOK FOR A RELIABLE AND TRUSTWORTHY PERSON WHO WILL ACT AS A NEXT OF KIN SO THE FUNDS CAN BE TRANSFERRED.

PLEASE REPLY WITH ALL OF YOUR BANK ACCOUNT, IRA AND COLLEGE FUND ACCOUNT NUMBERS AND THOSE OF YOUR CHILDREN AND GRANDCHILDREN TO WALLSTREETBAILOUT@TREASURY.GOV SO THAT WE MAY TRANSFER YOUR COMMISSION FOR THIS TRANSACTION. AFTER I RECEIVE THAT INFORMATION, I WILL RESPOND WITH DETAILED INFORMATION ABOUT SAFEGUARDS THAT WILL BE USED TO PROTECT THE FUNDS.

YOURS FAITHFULLY MINISTER OF TREASURY PAULSON
http://us.i1.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/i/mesg/emoticons7/24.gif

Neverfly
2008-Oct-20, 06:35 AM
This is the one I had gotten that left me in stitches.:

Sister Seaverin Adams
Avu 7 Rue 14 zone 3
Abidjan Cote D'ivoire
West Aferica.
Dearest One,
My greetings to you in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.I am Mrs. Seaverin Adams from South Africa.I am married to Archdeacon.Raymond Adams whom untill his death served as an archdeacon in the St.Micheal's archdeaconry in Ivory Coast for nine years. Before he died in the year 2003. We were married for eleven years without a child. He died after a brief illness that lasted for only four days.
Before his death we were both born again Christian. Since his death, I decided not to re-marry or get a child outside my matrimonial home which the Bible is against. When my late husband was alive he deposited the sum of $11.6.Million under suspense account in one of the famous bank here in Abidjan capital of Cote d'Ivoire for safe keeping.
Presently,my Doctor confirmed to me that I have serious sickness which is cancer problem. The one that disturbs me most is my stroke sickness.Haven known my condition I decided to donate this fund to a church or individual that will utilize this money the way I am going to instruct herein. I want a church that will use this fund for orphanages,helping the widows, propagating the word of God and to endeavor that the house of God is maintained.

The Bible made us to understand that blessed is the hand that giveth,I took this decision because I dont have any child that will inherit this money and my husband relatives are not Christians and I don't want my husband's efforts to be used by unbelievers. I don't want a situation where this money will be used in an ungodly way. This is why I am taking this decision. I am not afraid of death hence I know where I am going. I know that I am going to be in the bosom of the Lord. Exodus 14 VS 14 says that the lord will fight my case and I shall hold my peace, I don't need any telephone communication in this regard because of my health hence the presence of my husband's relatives around me always. I don't want them to know about this development. With God all things are possible.
As soon as I receive your reply I will give you the contact of the bank here in Abidjan. I want you and the church to always pray for me because the lord is my shepherd. My happiness is that I lived a life of a worthy Christian. Whoever that Wants to serve the Lord must serve him in spirit and Truth. Please always be prayerful all through your life.
Any delay in your reply will give me room in sourcing another church or individual for this same purpose. Please assure me that you will act accordingly as I Stated herein. Hoping to receive your reply. Due to present condition of my health,I was warned by my doctor to avoid receiving or making any call.
Remain blessed in the Lord.
Yours in Christ,
Mrs Seaverin Adams

WaxRubiks
2008-Oct-20, 06:57 AM
West Aferica.

good start...

Jay200MPH
2008-Oct-20, 11:52 AM
I think you guys are too skeptical. I mean, c'mon. You could be making millions.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c214/pkb8479/chances.jpg

Neverfly
2008-Oct-20, 12:04 PM
I think you guys are too skeptical. I mean, c'mon. You could be making millions.


From a nun that married an archdeacon in West Aferica...

Argos
2008-Oct-20, 03:57 PM
This is, by far, the most sophisticated scam letter I've ever seen.

I beg to disagree. It is as dumb as any other scam Ive seen.

m1omg
2008-Oct-20, 06:43 PM
pure LULZ

eric_marsh
2008-Oct-20, 06:46 PM
I beg to disagree. It is as dumb as any other scam Ive seen.

What? These guys forgot their Mensa cards at the door?

I still like the "Internet Act of 1962" that some guy tried to pull on my wife.

http://www.bautforum.com/off-topic-babbling/51807-dumb-criminals-13.html#post1322013

m1omg
2008-Oct-20, 06:59 PM
What? These guys forgot their Mensa cards at the door?

I still like the "Internet Act of 1962" that some guy tried to pull on my wife.

http://www.bautforum.com/off-topic-babbling/51807-dumb-criminals-13.html#post1322013

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:
Can anyone be really this stupid?

Swift
2008-Oct-20, 07:06 PM
I long ago decided that the expression "no one could be that stupid" should be removed from the English language. There are just too many examples proving it wrong.

tdvance
2008-Oct-20, 07:12 PM
Einstein: "Only two things are infinite: human stupidity and the universe. And I'm not so sure about the universe."

Abbadon_2008
2008-Oct-20, 08:30 PM
Oh, but it gets better!

Now, the US Embassy in Abuja, Nigeria wants me to have $14 million!!!

OOOOOOOO-WEEEEE!!!!


OFFICE OF THE SECRETARY AMERICAN EMBASSY IN ABUJA, NIGERIA.
Embassy of United States of America in Nigeria
7, Mambilla Street
Off Aso Drive Maitama District,
Abuja Nigeria.

Dear Sir/madam,

Greeting to you and your family, I am Mr. Fred Williams the Secretary, U.S Embassy in Nigeria.Do get back to this email I am sending to you in regards to the money you have lost,based on ongoing scam activities in Africa especially Nigeria , the US , UN, EU and AU has agreed with the federal government of Nigeria to combat this recent increase in fraud by the dubious citizens of the third world nations.

We have carried out Investigation to many Office departments in Nigeria , Ghana , Togo and other African countries in the World even office of the President Federal Republic of Nigeria, Office of the Honorable Minister of Finance, office of the Committee, Office of the Senators etc and we found out how our citizen has been duped.We reached an agreement with the bodies responsible of combating crime to help us resolves this meanance.



This is to inform you about our plan of many Office department in Central bank, even office of the President Federal Republic of Nigeria, Office of the Honorable Minister of Finance, office of the Law markers, Office of the Senators to make sure that fund that amount $14,700, 000, 00 Million U.S dollars must gets to you through woman and man of God for security reasons and to avoid anything that will stop your funds from getting to you since this a kind of compensation given to you because of all the funds you lost while transacting with the fraudstars.Here is my private
email address as follows: (fredwilliamss03@gmail.com)

YOUR URGENT REPLY WITH THE INFORMATIONS AS STATED BELOW IS HIGHLY NEEDED.

Full name:
Address:
Phone number:
Occupation:
Age:

Am looking forward to hearing from you.

Mr. Fred Williams
Secretary, United States Of America Embassy in Nigeria

BigDon
2008-Oct-21, 02:33 PM
Hey Abb, you standing us for drinks pretty soon?

All I got was a bigger "boost in my confidence".

Fazor
2008-Oct-21, 02:42 PM
Heh, my g/f got an interesting e-mail along these lines the other day. I forget what the particular hook was, but it almost made me laugh (except attempted fraud ticks me off enough to keep it from being truely funny).

The best part about BD's "FBI" e-mail is that it says it's from the states, yet is written in a way entirely inconsistant with how we talk here in the US. It's like the telemarketers that call, with an Indian accent so thick you can hardly understand them, but say their name is "Robert". Right. :)

BigDon
2008-Oct-21, 02:46 PM
Heh, my g/f got an interesting e-mail along these lines the other day. I forget what the particular hook was, but it almost made me laugh (except attempted fraud ticks me off enough to keep it from being truely funny).

The best part about BD's "FBI" e-mail is that it says it's from the states, yet is written in a way entirely inconsistant with how we talk here in the US. It's like the telemarketers that call, with an Indian accent so thick you can hardly understand them, but say their name is "Robert". Right. :)

Not mine, I just walked in.

BigDon
2008-Oct-21, 02:47 PM
Ahhh, you're getting the pills, aren't you?

Fazor
2008-Oct-21, 02:48 PM
Oh, thought I saw your name as the OP. My bad.

BigDon
2008-Oct-21, 02:48 PM
Isn't recieving four times your body weight in oxy's suspicious?

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-21, 07:37 PM
Anyone who hasn't checked out the site "Ebola Monkey Man" (google it, as it contains some NSFW language, so I won't link directly to it), needs to. Its a website put up by a guy who's hobby is screwing with the Nigerian scammers. He strings them along for days/weeks, promising them that he'll help them out, and then, of course, doesn't. He manages to get pictures of the scammers all holding up signs which say some absurd things ("Get up, flaccid willy" for example.) as well.

Fazor
2008-Oct-21, 08:28 PM
Its a website put up by a guy who's hobby is screwing with the Nigerian scammers.

I was wondering if there was a way to set up an empty bank account and have it reported as "stolen" or whatever, and then see what happens if you give them that information and they try to use it. (Obviously, you'd want cooperation with law enfocement and the bank first).

Alas, I concluded that nothing would happen.

Abbadon_2008
2008-Oct-21, 09:37 PM
Personally, I'd love to scam the scammers. There must be a way to 'backtrack' the contact info, banking info, etc... they give you.

Of course, there are ethical and safety issues. If you looted accounts they'd put aside for the scam, you'd essentially be stealing $$$ they stole from someone else.

And they are mobsters, after all. Unless I his out at the Blackwater USA training compound, I'd have to concern myself with criminal repercussions.

sarongsong
2008-Oct-21, 09:52 PM
...Unless I his out at the Blackwater USE training compound...?

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-21, 09:56 PM
Personally, I'd love to scam the scammers. There must be a way to 'backtrack' the contact info, banking info, etc... they give you.

Of course, there are ethical and safety issues. If you looted accounts they'd put aside for the scam, you'd essentially be stealing $$$ they stole from someone else.

And they are mobsters, after all. Unless I his out at the Blackwater USE training compound, I'd have to concern myself with criminal repercussions.

Eh, they're half a world away, what can they do? I sold a car on eBay once, and had a couple of scammers offer to pay me for the car outside of the eBay system. Knowing that it was a scam, I gave them my address so that they could send me the money orders for the car (which were more than what the car was going for, the trick is that you cash the money order, pocket the correct amount, and then send the "surplus" to them, you wind up holding the bag, as it will turn out that the money order is counterfeit), which they did. I promptly told them that they'd been scammed and that the local authorities would be in contact with them shortly. Its been 4 years since I did that, and I haven't been whacked yet.

BigDon
2008-Oct-21, 10:20 PM
Tucker, I followed you're boycott Startrek link. That's extortion BTW

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-21, 10:30 PM
Tucker, I followed you're boycott Startrek link. That's extortion BTW

No more than any boycott is.

BigDon
2008-Oct-21, 10:34 PM
Actually, slightly different. The boycotters haven't made a case where the people they are trying to boycott have hurt or insulted them. This is pure, "because I want it".

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-21, 10:41 PM
Actually, slightly different. The boycotters haven't made a case where the people they are trying to boycott have hurt or insulted them. This is pure, "because I want it".

Define "case." Do the people who boycott Disney because it has animal characters who don't wear pants, have a "case"? Do the people who boycott carmakers because they place ads in magazines the boycotters don't like have a "case"?

When the members of ACT UP! were protesting the lack of support of a disease that many people thought was a "gay only" disease, did they have a "case"?

As for insults, I have a feeling that the movie's going to be an insult to our intelligence, if they expect me to pay $10 to sit in a darkened theater and have my intelligence insulted for a couple of hours, I'd like to get something meaningful in return for it. :D

Neverfly
2008-Oct-21, 11:46 PM
I'm with Tuckerfan on this one. That's the purpose of boycotts.

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-22, 12:03 AM
I should add that by BigDon's logic, anyone who, like me, boycotts Starbucks because of their actions towards NYC rescue workers on 9/11, wasting water, and exploitative business practices, but isn't directly harmed by any of it, is guilty of extortion.

Remember, the greatest changes in society come about not when the people affected by a problem protest, but when those not affected by the problem join in! Martin Luther King got the ball rolling on Civil Rights in the 20th Century, but things didn't change until white Americans joined him in agreeing that there was a problem and moved to have the laws changed. Granted, a case could be made that the reason JFK and LBJ pushed for changes had more to do with political opportunism, than believing that "all men are created equal," but that negates nothing. The fact that people stood up and said, "I do not agree with this." is what mattered, were it not for that, then JFK/LBJ wouldn't have noticed that there were votes to be curried.

BigDon
2008-Oct-22, 01:19 AM
Y'all done?

The boycotters, in question are trying to dictate to somebody else how to spend thier money. Or else.

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-22, 01:24 AM
Y'all done?

The boycotters, in question are trying to dictate to somebody else how to spend thier money. Or else.

Again, show me a boycott which doesn't work that way.

BigDon
2008-Oct-22, 01:34 AM
Define "case." Do the people who boycott Disney because it has animal characters who don't wear pants, have a "case"? Do the people who boycott carmakers because they place ads in magazines the boycotters don't like have a "case"?

When the members of ACT UP! were protesting the lack of support of a disease that many people thought was a "gay only" disease, did they have a "case"?

As for insults, I have a feeling that the movie's going to be an insult to our intelligence, if they expect me to pay $10 to sit in a darkened theater and have my intelligence insulted for a couple of hours, I'd like to get something meaningful in return for it. :D

You are answering my question for me.

None of the above was about, "Put the money here or else." It was put pants on the mice or stop supporting xyz and trying to sell to us at the same time.

And where the hell does ACT UP and AIDS get into this?

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-22, 01:43 AM
You are answering my question for me.

None of the above was about, "Put the money here or else." It was put pants on the mice or stop supporting xyz and trying to sell to us at the same time.

And where the hell does ACT UP and AIDS get into this?

ACT UP and AIDS comes into the same way the other things I mentioned do: People didn't like what a company was doing and said, "If you don't change your ways, you'll not be getting our money." ACT UP did this most explicitly with their demands that pharmacutical companies and the government start spending money on AIDS research. They also boycotted companies which gave money to politicians they didn't like.

Heck the reason for seeing "gay friendly" ads is directly related to the boycotts of ACT UP and others. Companies realized that this was a demographic they should be marketing to, since they had money. Bottom line is that its all about the benjamins, and if you want a company to change its ways, you've got to hurt them in their wallet.

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-22, 01:49 AM
Note the definition of "boycott": (http://www.answers.com/boycott?nafid=3)
To abstain from or act together in abstaining from using, buying, or dealing with as an expression of protest or disfavor or as a means of coercion. See synonyms at blackball.

See also the Wiki page on boycotts. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boycott)

BigDon
2008-Oct-22, 02:04 AM
Also from wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion

Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal offense, which occurs, when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-22, 02:15 AM
Also from wiki...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion

Extortion, outwresting, or exaction is a criminal offense, which occurs, when a person unlawfully obtains either money, property or services from a person, entity, or institution, through coercion.
Then anyone who enacts a boycott is guilty of extortion. You might have a case for extortion if anyone responsible for the petition stood to gain directly from the boycott, but AFAIK, nobody does.

Note also, that the portion you've quoted does not define "unlawfully" in terms of extortion. By your logic, if I don't buy something from everyone selling something, I'm committing extortion. Are the people boycotting certain car makers because they don't think that the car makers are putting enough money into alternative energy research also guilty of "extortion"? What about Greenpeace, which has boycotts of a number of computer companies (amongst others) because they don't think that the companies are being environmentally friendly enough in their products? Are they guilty of extortion too?

BigDon
2008-Oct-22, 02:27 AM
Mr. T, I think we can spin all day on this. So without either of us ceding the point, let's both move on to more productive pursuits.

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-22, 03:13 AM
Mr. T, I think we can spin all day on this. So without either of us ceding the point, let's both move on to more productive pursuits.

Fine by me.

Abbadon_2008
2008-Oct-22, 05:26 AM
?

I meant "Blackwater USA ":whistle:

sarongsong
2008-Oct-22, 05:58 AM
I meant "Blackwater USA ":whistle:Not that part (we've got Blackwater West here in San Diego County now, on the Mexican border, BTW); this part:
...Unless I his out...

HenrikOlsen
2008-Oct-23, 07:55 PM
Then anyone who enacts a boycott is guilty of extortion.
Since not all boycotts demand that someone should spend money on something, not all boycotts are extortion.

Since the Star Trek boycott demands that Paramount spend money on something of no direct value to them, that specific boycott IS extortion.

Had it been something like "make the next Star Trek movie at least moderately good or I won't pay to see it" I could understand it as I gave up on that franchise half a dozen movies, several series and hundreds of books ago.

Instead it's "since you didn't make the next Star Trek movie like I want it, you should pay an indulgence or I won't go to see", which is bunk. Just stop watching.

BigDon
2008-Oct-23, 08:06 PM
Henrik, even though you share my veiws in this matter I hardly think its fair you postings this as Tucker and I have settled.

Maybe a new thread where Tucker isn't on the spot?

SeanF
2008-Oct-23, 08:12 PM
Not that part (we've got Blackwater West here in San Diego County now, on the Mexican border, BTW); this part:
...Unless I his out...
"His" should be "hid."

Tuckerfan
2008-Oct-23, 08:18 PM
Since not all boycotts demand that someone should spend money on something, not all boycotts are extortion.Yet, the result of all boycotts is a redirection of funds on the part of the boycotted (be it advertising to say they stopped doing whatever it was, or money redirected somewhere else, say R&D). So there might not be an overt demand for money to be spent on something, the net result is that it is.


Since the Star Trek boycott demands that Paramount spend money on something of no direct value to them, that specific boycott IS extortion.Again, the same argument could be made when people demand that Starbucks stop paying bottom dollar for coffee and enact "fair trade practices." There is no direct benefit for Starbucks to do so (other than ending the boycott, of course), and in fact, it hurts Starbucks, since it forces them to raise their prices as they've now have to pay more for their coffee. That this will eventually increase their customer base in the developing world at some point, is an indirect benefit to them, and one that corporate executives with a short term mindset refuse to recognize. One of the reasons that AIDS (back when it was called Gay-related immune deficiency [GRIDs]) was able to get such a foothold in society was that people didn't recognize that it was a threat to anyone besides "the filthy homos," so one could easily argue that the boycotts enacted around that time were extortion. Only later did society realize that it was a threat to everyone, and it might not have happened as quickly as it did, without the boycotts.


Had it been something like "make the next Star Trek movie at least moderately good or I won't pay to see it" I could understand it as I gave up on that franchise half a dozen movies, several series and hundreds of books ago.Well, yes, that's a rational position, however, Star Trek does not exactly inspire rational thought in a good number of people (including some of the cast members, it would seem). One could call the petition a way of making the best of a bad situation. Some times weaning an addict off their fix "cold turkey" can be fatal. ;)


Instead it's "since you didn't make the next Star Trek movie like I want it, you should pay an indulgence or I won't go to see", which is bunk.Really? Where does the petition lay out specific things that should have been in the movie, but aren't? Where does it request that the movie have any elements other than "quality"? Does it demand certain cast members be in the film? Does it demand a specific screenwriter? Director? No.

Just stop watching.Yes, that's sort of the point of the boycott.