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samkent
2008-Oct-28, 11:41 AM
Where is the best place to keep the 2 liter of soda, on the counter or in the fridge? The goal is to retain the most or highest content of CO2 through multiple openings and pours over several days.

Tinaa
2008-Oct-28, 11:58 AM
Put it in the fridge.

I'm just amazed that a 2 liter soda would last that long. At my house it may last a half an hour.

closetgeek
2008-Oct-28, 12:49 PM
I notice that cold soda loses fizz much slower than warm. I despise bottled soda anyway.

farmerjumperdon
2008-Oct-28, 01:50 PM
I despise warm soda. Keep it in the fridge.

Whirlpool
2008-Oct-28, 04:03 PM
Ice cubes are always available in the fridge.

Gruesome
2008-Oct-28, 04:24 PM
I think 2-liters are best left on the shelf, in the store.

Moose
2008-Oct-28, 04:40 PM
Fridge.

Trebuchet
2008-Oct-28, 04:57 PM
I'm with Gruesome. I don't buy it in containers larger than I will drink at one sitting.

mahesh
2008-Oct-28, 05:03 PM
fridge sam...
to retain its burp factor longer

pghnative
2008-Oct-28, 05:05 PM
Fridge. The solubility (though Swift may stop along to say that that isn't technically the right word) of gases goes up as the temperature goes down, so more CO2 sticks around if it's cold.

ABR.
2008-Oct-28, 05:05 PM
For the past two Fourths of July, my kids and I have bought many 2-liter bottles of diet cola and packages of Mentos in lieu of fireworks.

pghnative
2008-Oct-28, 05:07 PM
Oh, and to retain even more CO2, squeeze the bottle as much as you can before putting the cap back on. The less free vapor space in the bottle, the less CO2 will be released when you open it the next day.

mahesh
2008-Oct-28, 05:17 PM
Oh, and to retain even more CO2, squeeze the bottle as much as you can before putting the cap back on. The less free vapor space in the bottle, the less CO2 will be released when you open it the next day.
good idea.
and try not to lay it / them, sideways....to prevent leaks.

samkent
2008-Oct-28, 05:27 PM
I used to think along the lines of Trebuchet, so I purchased 6 pack of cans at $1.25(brand x). But 12 oz was a bit too much for one sitting before bed. Then I looked at the mini cans, way too expensive. Then I spied the 2 liters on the shelf at $.67 (brand x). That’s half the cost for about the same volume right out of the store. Plus I can drink less and I don’t get the sugar high as I set the alarm for the night. Alas the fizz factor diminished after about four days.
I’ll have to try squeezing the bottle as I use it.

samkent
2008-Oct-28, 05:56 PM
Wait a minute.

Wouldn’t the CO2 just expand the sides back to it’s normal size???
Isn’t it the internal pressure that keeps the CO2 in solution anyway???

mugaliens
2008-Oct-28, 06:01 PM
Oh, and to retain even more CO2, squeeze the bottle as much as you can before putting the cap back on. The less free vapor space in the bottle, the less CO2 will be released when you open it the next day.

I've found that a tiny chunk of dry ice works best.

I said "tiny..."

Moose
2008-Oct-28, 06:24 PM
Wouldn’t the CO2 just expand the sides back to it’s normal size??? Isn’t it the internal pressure that keeps the CO2 in solution anyway???

That's a good question. I don't know how one would keep the CO2 in solution. I can only suggest how to keep it in the bottle.

Ultimately, if the pressure inside the bottle is higher than the pressure outside the bottle, CO2 will escape, molecule by molecule, through imperfections in the cap's gasket.

If the pressure inside the bottle is lower than the pressure outside, then air will try to enter the bottle through those same imperfections.

The trick is in reducing the pressure of the bottle without expelling too much CO2 by squeezing it. By gently squeezing it between your fingers as you pour, but not so much as to compromise the shape of the bottle by creasing the plastic, then recapping it quickly still while squeezing, the bottle's own strength (and the weight of the soda) will tend to re-expand it, keeping the pressure lowered.

tdvance
2008-Oct-28, 06:38 PM
I would guess that squeezing the bottle would be counterproductive. In fact, I typically am careful *not* to squeeze the bottle even a little as I replace the cap, so that pressure inside the bottle is about the same as outside (squeezing the bottle would make it less--try squeezing an open bottle--slowly it tries to expand to its original shape, so a closed bottle would have lower pressure than outside the bottle). Some CO2 will escape into the unsqueezed bottle until the pressure is high enough to prevent further escape. If you had squeezed the bottle, more CO2 would have to escape to equalize things.

What's needed is a special bottle capper device that pumps air into the bottle,. increasing the pressure, when closed (and acts as a spout when open).

Click Ticker
2008-Oct-28, 06:48 PM
I didn't see it mentioned so I'll add that you should crank the cap on as tight as you can. Two litres are pretty much shot once you open them, though. Not much hope. They're good for parties and that's about it. Particularly any store brand 2 litre that costs $.67.

mugaliens
2008-Oct-28, 08:16 PM
Wait a minute.

Wouldnít the CO2 just expand the sides back to itís normal size???
Isnít it the internal pressure that keeps the CO2 in solution anyway???

Yes.

And yes.

The trick, here, is the CO2's partial pressure. The higher the partial pressure, the more CO2 goes into solution. Squeezing the sides before putting the top on merely results in a lower partial pressure, which causes more CO2 to escape, expanding the sides back to normal.

Temperature plays a role, too, and the colder the liquid is, the more CO2 can dissolve in it. This is why a cool class of fresca continues to fizz as it warms up.

As for the diet coke and menthos approach, I've had better luck with diet coke and dynamite, but don't tell the kids...

mugaliens
2008-Oct-28, 08:20 PM
What's needed is a special bottle capper device that pumps air into the bottle,. increasing the pressure, when closed (and acts as a spout when open).

You could have an elephant sit on it. That would increase the pressure. A spout is included.

It's a bit difficult fitting it in the fridge, though.

Swift
2008-Oct-28, 08:31 PM
Fridge. The solubility (though Swift may stop along to say that that isn't technically the right word) of gases goes up as the temperature goes down, so more CO2 sticks around if it's cold.
Well, since you mentioned my name.... no actually, solubility is the word I use. If one was to get real anal, the CO2 that is dissolved into solution as individual molecules is "in solution", the bubbles in there are actually a suspension. There will be equilibriums between the dissovled CO2 and the bubbles of CO2, and between the bubbles in suspension and the bubbles leaving.

I wasn't completely sure, but this reference (http://books.google.com/books?id=64RNeumFnMYC&pg=PA12&lpg=PA12&dq=solubility+CO2+in+water+as+function+of+temperat ure&source=web&ots=c-RfJxDgiQ&sig=oC4equlCfotrCB25unwH3r4_OIo&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result) indicates that the solubility increases with decreasing temperature. The stability of the suspension also will increase with decreasing temperature.

Oh, and to retain even more CO2, squeeze the bottle as much as you can before putting the cap back on. The less free vapor space in the bottle, the less CO2 will be released when you open it the next day.

Yep - and by doing that, you keep the suspension stable. mugaliens discusses it in detail above.

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-28, 09:20 PM
Swift,

Mugaliens was saying not to squeeze the bottle if you want to retain
as much CO2 as possible. The bottle will just puff out again as the CO2
comes out of solution. If the bottle were made out of a material that
stayed crushed and didn't puff back out from internal pressure, then that
would work.

I don't care much for fizz, myself. A couple of weeks ago, I had A&W root
beer from a 2-liter bottle that had been opened a couple of days before
and opened and partially emptied several times, so that it had lost most
of its fizz, and surprisingly, it didn't taste flat.

Root beer that has lost most of its fizz would seem to be better for making
floats. I want as much ice cream in there as possible. Fizz just gives fuzz.

Pouring warm soda over ice cubes will make the soda lose its fizz almost
explosively, and of course dilutes it.

But I rarely have soda. Pretty much only when I'm with others and soda
is what is available.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

cjl
2008-Oct-28, 09:40 PM
The air pump is actually almost completely useless - what matters is the partial pressure of CO2 above the liquid, not the total pressure. As CO2 is a very small component of air, pumping more air in is not what is needed. Instead, more CO2 is needed, as in the idea of adding a tiny piece of dry ice.

SeanF
2008-Oct-29, 01:24 PM
Ah, this whole thread has been driving me crazy!





It's "pop," people, not "soda"!

;)

Swift
2008-Oct-29, 01:26 PM
It only took about 10 years of living in Ohio, but I finally was converted from "soda" to "pop".

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-29, 01:52 PM
I think the Twin Cities must be on the "pop/soda" border. On restaurant
menus it is always listed as "soda"; when speaking informally, it is always
referred to as "pop". On those rare occasions when I bring it up as a new
subject without prior context, I refer to it as "soda pop".

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

farmerjumperdon
2008-Oct-29, 05:10 PM
I think the Twin Cities must be on the "pop/soda" border. On restaurant
menus it is always listed as "soda"; when speaking informally, it is always
referred to as "pop". On those rare occasions when I bring it up as a new
subject without prior context, I refer to it as "soda pop".

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

Most places I see it as either Soft Drinks, or just Drinks.

Reminds me of the very funny use of generics in Repo Man. I wonder if the generic food and beverage industry paid for such placements?

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-29, 09:13 PM
Most places I see it as either Soft Drinks, or just Drinks.
Yes, you're right. I was wrong. I've seen "soda" on some menus, but
nowhere near the overwhelming majority that I implied.



Reminds me of the very funny use of generics in Repo Man. I wonder if
the generic food and beverage industry paid for such placements?
Awww, it's already been done, huh? I was gonna do that sometime if I
ever got my act together and started making films.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

tdvance
2008-Oct-30, 03:16 AM
When I've visited Minneapolis, I always got a chuckle when the restaurant bill would have an item for "pop". Ok, we called it "pop" in my house when I grew up, but it was always the informal term; restaurants would be more formal, like "soda" or "Coke" or whatever. It's like there are two languages, written and spoken, and "pop" in my mind belonged to "spoken", at least on something as formal as a restaurant bill (for formal restaurants requiring shirts and shoes :) ).

sarongsong
2008-Oct-30, 03:21 AM
I've found that a tiny chunk of dry ice works best...Hee-hee; "tiny" is about all that's left after bringing it home! :)
Also, chilled soft drinks generally cost more at the store than unfrigerated.

Trebuchet
2008-Oct-30, 07:06 PM
Also, chilled soft drinks generally cost more at the store than unfrigerated.

Sorry, I have to question that one. Pricing is done by bar code in virtually all stores now. I really doubt they are putting in some extra code if it comes out of the chiller.

On the other hand, they've clearly figured out how to tell when they are scanning a six-pack versus an individual can.

Gillianren
2008-Oct-30, 07:31 PM
The stores here don't sell 20-ounce or one-liter bottles warm, and they don't sell anything else chilled.

Gruesome
2008-Oct-30, 07:35 PM
Mugaliens was saying not to squeeze the bottle if you want to retain as much CO2 as possible. The bottle will just puff out again as the CO2
comes out of solution. If the bottle were made out of a material that stayed crushed and didn't puff back out from internal pressure, then that would work.

Might I suggest Carbonite?

SeanF
2008-Oct-30, 07:51 PM
The stores here don't sell 20-ounce or one-liter bottles warm, and they don't sell anything else chilled.
Grocery stores here don't selly hardly anything chilled. Convenience store/gas station type establishments, though, often have twelve-packs of 12-ounce cans in the coolers, or six-packs of the bottles.

I can honestly say I don't think I've ever seen the two-liter bottles chilled, though.

mike alexander
2008-Oct-30, 08:20 PM
Thing is, once you open the bottle you reset the equilibrium of the system. That hiss is CO2 that's gone and never coming back. At that point it's basically restarting with a CO2 solution under air at atmospheric pressure. So to minimize loss open the bottle under conditions of maximum CO2 solubility, which in your home is as cold as possible, pour with minimum agitation so you don't create nuclei for bubble formation and minimize suurface area, then recap it promptly. CO2 solubility roughly doubles going from room temperature to cold fridge temperature.

sarongsong
2008-Oct-30, 09:42 PM
Sorry, I have to question that one [higher price for chilled soft drinks]...I really doubt they are putting in some extra code if it comes out of the chiller...Whoops! http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon11.gif
You are correct, Trebuchet---just double-checked with several supermarkets and drugstores---my initial statement was based on a misinformed sales clerk's opinion.

tdvance
2008-Oct-30, 10:52 PM
Grocery stores here don't selly hardly anything chilled. Convenience store/gas station type establishments, though, often have twelve-packs of 12-ounce cans in the coolers, or six-packs of the bottles.

I can honestly say I don't think I've ever seen the two-liter bottles chilled, though.

They used to when I was in college, 15-20 years ago--and charged more than for the 2-liter bottles out on the floor. Most places don't sell 2-liter bottles chilled anymore, though.

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-30, 10:59 PM
How cold do carbonated soft drinks (AKA soda pop) need to be to freeze?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

tdvance
2008-Oct-30, 11:01 PM
http://www.urbanmonarch.com/the-freezing-point-of-soda/

This guy says 30-32 degrees F.

Trebuchet
2008-Oct-30, 11:44 PM
You'd think the various dissolved stuff would lower the freezing point. But I've had cans of diet soda freeze and rupture just sitting near the freezing compartment. So the freezer is not such a good idea.

The Backroad Astronomer
2008-Oct-31, 12:05 AM
Where I stire my pop at hom is uninsulated so during the winter if I not careful I end up with 2 liters of coke ice.

HenrikOlsen
2008-Oct-31, 01:12 AM
How cold do carbonated soft drinks (AKA soda pop) need to be to freeze?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis
Is depends on whether you're asking for the temp needed to freeze all of the bottle or just for slush to form. The latter happens close enough to the freezing point of water that you can get it when they're next to the cooling surface in a fridge that's set a bit too cold.

Jeff Root
2008-Oct-31, 01:17 AM
If a 2-litre bottle of carbonated beverage can be frozen solid without
creating a mess, how can the ice be extracted safely? (Cutting a plastic
bottle with an X-acto knife while trying not to get bits of plastic into the
interior sounds like a dangerous procedure to me. Sharp knife on hard,
slippery, curved surface = not good.)

What would you freeze? How would you use the resulting ice?

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

darkhunter
2008-Oct-31, 04:41 AM
Ah, this whole thread has been driving me crazy!





It's "pop," people, not "soda"!

;)

Naw...it's all coke! (Though my preference is Dr Pepper or Mountain Dew...) :)

I only buy the cans or smaller bottles (1 serving) and keep them in the bottom of my pantry...

mike alexander
2008-Oct-31, 01:51 PM
I'm going to guess real pop (tip o' the hat to the Great Lakes) with sugar in it will have a lower freezing point than diet pop. Raoult's Law. Or is it Clausius-Clapeyron?

pghnative
2008-Nov-03, 05:36 PM
Oh, and to retain even more CO2, squeeze the bottle as much as you can before putting the cap back on. The less free vapor space in the bottle, the less CO2 will be released when you open it the next day.

Swift,

Mugaliens was saying not to squeeze the bottle if you want to retain
as much CO2 as possible. The bottle will just puff out again as the CO2
comes out of solution.

My experience has been that the bottle stays "scrunched".

Plus, even if it didn't remain "scrunched", you'd be no worse off than if you didn't squeeze the bottle. The "unscrunching" of the bottle won't "suck more CO2 out".

HenrikOlsen
2008-Nov-03, 11:53 PM
Definitely don't scrunch, you're putting the content under lower pressure than if you simply put the cap on.

mugaliens
2008-Nov-04, 08:30 PM
If a 2-litre bottle of carbonated beverage can be frozen solid without
creating a mess, how can the ice be extracted safely?

Freeze it in the bottle. Remove bottle. Take a table saw, and...

You're right about it being a mess.

However, try this:

Cut a 2 liter bottle in half, in the middle (half way between the bottom and the top)

Tape it shut with a couple turns of clear packing tape.

Fill, wait for fizz to settle (about a minute), then cap and put it in the fridge.

The tape will be a lot easier to cut than the polycarbonate.

Remove cap (let's the air in).

Run warm water over it for a couple of seconds, then remove the top.

Poke a hole in the bottom, repeat.

Now you have a 2 liter chunk of frozen cola-ice.

Paracelsus
2008-Nov-04, 08:37 PM
Where is the best place to keep the 2 liter of soda, on the counter or in the fridge? The goal is to retain the most or highest content of CO2 through multiple openings and pours over several days.

Fridge. CO2 is more soluble in cold water than warm water.