PDA

View Full Version : Do Dyslexics post on internet forums generally?



WaxRubiks
2008-Nov-19, 05:24 PM
I wonder, as I see all the mistakes I make when using spell checker, how dyslexics could post on internet forums, given that spell checkers can't always find the word that you are trying to use.

There seems to be a lot of jumping on spelling mistakes, and if I was dyslexic, I would probably give up.

I wonder what karma has in store for those that use spelling mistakes to attack someone's argument, probably end up being sentenced to death on a foreign holiday due to a spell checker changing heron to heroin, by some tired office worker.

PraedSt
2008-Nov-19, 05:32 PM
Lol. :D

Gillianren
2008-Nov-19, 05:35 PM
I've always accepted dyslexia as one of my two complete exceptions for spelling errors. (The other being non-native speaker, though most of those around here want me to correct their English.) I know for a fact there are several dyslexics around here. They just tend to be more careful with their posts, because they know that their spelling affects their communication skills. I've known a few other dyslexics on other fora, and they were careful, too.

Actually, I have a lot of experience with dyslexia. My younger sister has dyslexia so severe that we once had to wait for her to get home from camp before we knew what her letter had said.

nauthiz
2008-Nov-19, 05:36 PM
My girlfriend is (mildly) dyslexic and she has better spelling than I do.

LotusExcelle
2008-Nov-19, 05:44 PM
A friend of mine has dyslexia. He said he could read a piece of music perfectly but words got jumbled. I always found that odd.

PetersCreek
2008-Nov-19, 06:06 PM
I'm a member of DNA...the National Association of Dyslexics. Dyslexics of the world, untie!

Okay, not really but a dyslexic told me both of those jokes years ago.

Fazor
2008-Nov-19, 06:17 PM
LoL @ PetersCreek

Dyslexia is a very mis-represented condition. Whereas we typically see it portrayed as reading/writing words backwards or completely jumbled up, in reality it runs the gamut of severity. A lot of people here know better than I, but it's more a general problem processing words or letters in groups.

But that doesn't mean that (most) dyslexics can't write or read correctly; most just require a lot more attention and effort to do so.

So to answer the OP, I'd imagine it'd depend on the severity of the condition, and whether or not reading and writing to a forum is enjoyable enough to make the effort worthwhile.

NEOWatcher
2008-Nov-19, 06:38 PM
Actually, I have a lot of experience with dyslexia. My younger sister has dyslexia so severe that we once had to wait for her to get home from camp before we knew what her letter had said.
I've never had close contact with a dyslexic (or one strong enough that I would know about), so I can only imagine it being rough.

I can just picture one of the camp letters saying "I slaide the ocean across the leak".

Ilya
2008-Nov-19, 06:46 PM
I never heard of dyslexia before emigrating to US, and for more than 10 years thought it was nonsense. My reasoning was that if dyslexia is as prevalent as adverised, USSR could never achieve 100% literacy -- which it really did achieve. I assumed dyslexia either does not exist, or is extremely rare.

The epiphany came some time in early 90's when I read about a study of dyslexia done in Italy. Something between 8 and 10 percent of people tested showed sign of dyslexia -- yet they read and wrote in Italian without any difficulty! It seems that dyslexia is only a problem when combined with a very illogical grammar and spelling, such as English. In languages which are written just as they sound, such as Russian or Italian, it is not a debilitating condition at all.

PraedSt
2008-Nov-19, 06:52 PM
It seems that dyslexia is only a problem when combined with a very illogical grammar and spelling, such as English. In languages which are written just as they sound, such as Russian or Italian, it is not a debilitating condition at all.
This is interesting. You sure about this? (Just want to make sure)

nauthiz
2008-Nov-19, 06:54 PM
But that doesn't mean that (most) dyslexics can't write or read correctly; most just require a lot more attention and effort to do so.

In the case of my girlfriend, it's really only noticeable when she's fatigued or inebriated so her ability to concentrate is impaired. Under normal conditions, though, she's a pretty fast reader and tends to get through more books in a month than anyone else I know.

Mathematics is more difficult than literature. She has an easy enough time handling the concepts, but actually grinding through the arithmetic can be a real hassle.

NEOWatcher
2008-Nov-19, 07:02 PM
...Mathematics is more difficult than literature. She has an easy enough time handling the concepts, but actually grinding through the arithmetic can be a real hassle.
Which proves Ilya's point about the English language.... Oh wait, no it doesn't.

Actually; it goes along with what my impression was about dyslexics most commonly transposing numbers.

Ilya
2008-Nov-19, 07:12 PM
This is interesting. You sure about this? (Just want to make sure)
No I am not sure. But I can not explain otherwise why dyslexia seems not to exist in Russia. You have to realize that an inbred alcoholic factory worker from Mordovia who slept through most of school still writes with fewer errors than most Americans. Russian language does not have even a verb "to spell" because the concept is completely redundant. You write words exactly how you hear them.

Fazor
2008-Nov-19, 07:12 PM
Mathematics is more difficult than literature. She has an easy enough time handling the concepts, but actually grinding through the arithmetic can be a real hassle.

I've wondered if this is considered the same or a different condition, because it affects me. I'm very good at math (albiet very rusty, eight years after last having a math class). But I am extreemly prone to accidently swapping numbers and such.

Though it could probably be argued that I show signs of dyslexia with words aswell. I read fine (and well above average pace, though well below many of you, I'm sure). But my poor spelling is obvious, and most of the mistakes are simple words where I know it's wrong, but still end up spelling the word incorrectly, or words I see over and over again yet can't recall the spelling correctly.

Personally, I've never felt it bad enough to consider it dyslexia or any other writing/learning problem ... but honestly I don't know what the bar for comparison is.

Oh ... but to get back to my initial point, I have a lot more trouble with numbers than letters.

nauthiz
2008-Nov-19, 07:13 PM
This is interesting. You sure about this? (Just want to make sure)

I've heard that, too. I can't remember any sources, but I remember a smattering of the supposed cause: In at least one kind of dyslexia, the part of the brain that normally manages associations among letters and phonemes is impaired. In a language with very complicated or ambiguous phonetic rules such as English, this is more problematic because there's that much more to sort out. On the other end of the scale, this the associations are minimally tangled in a syllabic alphabet such as Hiragana.

I don't think the end hypothesis is that this means we should necessarily see more or less dyslexia among different groups of language speakers, though. More that we should see differences in what usually causes dyslexia in different cultures. For example, we might still see dyslexia among people who speak a language with a logographic writing system such as Mandarin, but since phonics isn't a major part of how the writing system works it would probably tend to be a manifestation of some other neurological difference. (Maybe a difficulty with rote memorization that makes it hard for the individual to learn umpteen thousand ideograms?)

Nicolas
2008-Nov-19, 07:18 PM
The other being non-native speakers, though most of those around here want me

:shifty:


One thing I noticed: a poster on this board, and a poster on another board, both have the same writing style: they tend to use.....lots of dots........in their posts........

I never got a clear answer from both of them, but as far as I understood in between the (dotted) lines, they both were autistic. Interesting how that can trigger the same writing habbit in 2 different persons, not even speaking the same language.

samkent
2008-Nov-19, 07:22 PM
I doubt they post on the Internet at all. Don’t they stick to the outernet?

Seriously though most of the errors I see don’t come from dyslexia. Most of the errors I see come form people with just plain poor spelling, poor grammar and a weak vocabulary.

Using “then: when they should have used “than”.
Using the mythical word “prolly”. It doesn’t exist. Use “probably”.
Lack of capitalization and punctuation are irritating make reading a post difficult at best.

I hated English class as much as the next kid when I was younger. But these are 5th and 6th grade errors.

Spell checkers are free so there is no reason for most of the mistakes I see. Would you buy from a website with a page full of errors? The way you type says a lot about you and how much you know. There are a few regular posters on here that have meticulous grammar and syntax. And it shows in the respect they get.

Nicolas
2008-Nov-19, 07:31 PM
One for the list:

-use "of" when they should use "have". That one keeps confusing me.

Fazor
2008-Nov-19, 07:36 PM
Using “then: when they should have used “than”.
Using the mythical word “prolly”. It doesn’t exist. Use “probably”.
Lack of capitalization and punctuation are irritating make reading a post difficult at best.

Ah, but you're discounting people like myself who oft make those errors yet know the correct usage. Now, I don't claim to have any reason for those mistakes other than sloppyness (and if I'd actually do a half-decent job of proof-reading they'd get fixed); but I imagine some of those mistakes could come from people with certian learning disabilities like dyslexia, some from pure sloppyness (Fazorishness, I'll get that added to the next Dictionary revision), and then also from poor education/writing skills (or people trying to adapt to English as a second language ... it really is a weird language).

Studioguy
2008-Nov-19, 07:38 PM
I spend a lot of time researching various products related to my work and I'm on a lot of mailing lists. One of the people who regularly sends out notices for things he's selling insists on writing:

"free intergration with every system!"

I've mentioned it to him before that he's misspelling the word "integration" and his excuse is that he's dyslexic. I'm not exactly sure why he wouldn't trust his spellchecker or even my advice, but every single email he sends has that tag on it. The sad thing is that these aren't exactly tinker-toys we're working with her and they cost a LOT of money, so I wonder how many people actually trust him with their gear if he can't even spell one of his main services.

Nicolas
2008-Nov-19, 07:39 PM
@Fazor: What would be the correct adjective for someone misspelling "sloppiness"? ;)

Fazor
2008-Nov-19, 07:50 PM
Fazorishness, as described above ... though "irony" would also be an accepted answer. ;)

(and yes, though you'll have to take my word for it, I know the y-to-i rule, and know the correct spelling. Just illustrates my point. )

Gillianren
2008-Nov-19, 07:52 PM
I've wondered if this is considered the same or a different condition, because it affects me.

It's considered a different condition, I believe.

NEOWatcher
2008-Nov-19, 07:57 PM
I've mentioned it to him before that he's misspelling the word "integration" and his excuse is that he's dyslexic.
I've known many people use that excuse, and it's not used as an excuse, but a replacement for "shut up, I don't want to hear it. I don't have the time, and you know exactly what I mean".
Here in Ohio, we live close enough to the region that would insist "them's exactly howd that be spelt".

So many times, I do read things wrong, or backwards, or twisted, but I have always chalked that up to impatience. I've always been able to glance back at something that sounded funny and seen it as correct the second time.

nauthiz
2008-Nov-19, 08:01 PM
Using the mythical word “prolly”. It doesn’t exist. Use “probably”.

I can never resist a chance to tell this joke:

I was walking across campus with my linguistics professor one day when we came across a group of people savagely beating a prescriptivist. "Oh my God, we have to help!" I exclaimed. My professor paused for a moment and then replied, "Nah, six should be enough."

Swift
2008-Nov-19, 08:12 PM
Seriously though most of the errors I see don’t come from dyslexia. Most of the errors I see come form people with just plain poor spelling, poor grammar and a weak vocabulary.

Actually, I think a lot of those people know proper spelling and grammar (or at least how to use a spell checker), but just don't. There is just an attitude that its "just an Internet forum and so why does it matter". I suspect it will only get worse, as the English of "text messages" becomes the norm.

Fazor
2008-Nov-19, 08:14 PM
So many times, I do read things wrong, or backwards, or twisted, but I have always chalked that up to impatience. I've always been able to glance back at something that sounded funny and seen it as correct the second time.

Exactly why I don't consider myself to have a problem. I just couldn't call it a "condition" if it's not a major impact on my life. I've learn'ded from them book thinggies fairly well, and sometimes people can understand what I'm talking about.

But I think dyslexia runs the same risk as conditions like ADHD ... where it's too easy to blame normal deviations as something caused by a condition. Gillian et. al. are probably more qualified to discuss mis-diagnosis of these things than myself.

mugaliens
2008-Nov-19, 08:17 PM
My younger sister has dyslexia so severe that we once had to wait for her to get home from camp before we knew what her letter had said.

A good friend in high school, and later, a girlfriend after college, both had severe dislexia. The second became a teacher after struggling through college, keeping her dislexia a secret, but graduating with honors. Her career in teaching is similarly stellar.

I never had a problem reading her letters... (she overcame it).

On another note, it's been proven that provided the first and last letter of the words in a sentance are in place, the middle letters can be randomly scrambled and the human brain can still read it.

For example:

On athnoer ntoe, it's been porevn taht pviroded the fsrit and lsat lteter of the wrdos in a stnnaece are in pcale, the mdlide lreetts can be rmdolnay sbmralecd and the hamun biran can sitll raed it.

Fazor
2008-Nov-19, 08:22 PM
On another note, it's been proven that provided the first and last letter of the words in a sentance are in place, the middle letters can be randomly scrambled and the human brain can still read it.

I've read where the first-letter, last letter, scramble thing is actually the result of some other phenomenon... but I couldn't begin to tell you where to find it or what exactly I read. So there's my discenting non-argument. :)

nauthiz
2008-Nov-19, 08:33 PM
On athnoer ntoe, it's been porevn taht pviroded the fsrit and lsat lteter of the wrdos in a stnnaece are in pcale, the mdlide lreetts can be rmdolnay sbmralecd and the hamun biran can sitll raed it.

Olny if the wodrs are blyisbailc or sthoerr. Any lgenor and the dticifulfy bmeeocs tunemerdos.

mahesh
2008-Nov-19, 09:19 PM
:shifty:
One thing I noticed: a poster on this board, and a poster on another board, both have the same writing style: they tend to use.....lots of dots........in their posts........
I never got a clear answer from both of them, but as far as I understood in between the (dotted) lines, they both were autistic. Interesting how that can trigger the same writing habbit in 2 different persons, not even speaking the same language.
I tend to use a lot of dots, but only in a ...let me think carefully now...
in a manner, 'to convey a "flow" of speech', as it were. streaming.
and only in a social situation. For example, i would do this here at BAUT. quite naturally. may be i shouldn't. maybe i shouldn'tof used them atall atall.

But when it comes to writing in long hand, I do not use them.

Hey, now i've become fixated about my dots. look what you made me do!

mamma don't take my kodakchrome awaaaayy.
and please don't take my dots away, either. i need them both.

my notes/ long hand letters/communications with my baby are entirely different. And defy analysis. i wouldn't allow it anyway.


nice one nauthiz! :D

Nicolas
2008-Nov-19, 09:20 PM
Olny if the wodrs are blyisbailc or sthoerr. Any lgenor and the dticifulfy bmeeocs tunemerdos.

Or if the rnadmonses is a bit too emrtxee. (randomness was made easy deliberately; extreme was made hard deliberately) Especially when you put all consonants together, it gets really hard for long words. For example, I could read your tunemerdos perfectly because the "dos" was about right and I saw I could use an "e" in two separate places. Had you written tueeodmnrs, it would have been quite impossible as you'd have the d far away from the s, the e's together (which is especially in Dutch hard, as we write a lot of words with "ee"), all consonants together so no good overview of what syllables you could make, etcetc. It's not really random anymore, it's written to make it hard deliberately. But still that refutes the statement that the order of the letters in between doesn't matter.

Did I mention before that somehow I'm quite fast at noticing errors in these sentences, I mean when the letter soup is wrong to make the intended word? Even in English I'm quite fast at that. I also have a tendency to spot the type within 2 seconds after getting a letter, without having actually read the letter. Big exception are my own errors. Weird. Call it erroroxia. ;)

mahesh
2008-Nov-19, 09:26 PM
yes sir nicolas!

i had a rabbit with that same habbit, once. Oh he was soooo cute!

Nicolas
2008-Nov-19, 09:29 PM
(If you stop drinking now, you're still in the enjoyably happy area.)

SeanF
2008-Nov-19, 09:38 PM
-use "of" when they should use "have". That one keeps confusing me.
When you say it confuses you, do you mean you yourself often don't know whether to use "of" or "have," or do you mean it confuses you why other people do it?

It comes from the contraction. "Should have" is contracted to "should've," which is pronounced very similar to "should of."


I've read where the first-letter, last letter, scramble thing is actually the result of some other phenomenon... but I couldn't begin to tell you where to find it or what exactly I read. So there's my discenting non-argument. :)
Dissenting. :)

Fazor
2008-Nov-19, 09:53 PM
What do you people want from me? I mean, look... I couldn't even spell "phasor" right!




(kidding, spelling of handle was from something else, and goes back to the early 90's)

Nicolas
2008-Nov-19, 09:54 PM
When you say it confuses you, do you mean you yourself often don't know whether to use "of" or "have," or do you mean it confuses you why other people do it?

Neither. (<=== HA! ;)). It confuses me when people do it. I know why they do it, I know which one should be used when. But when I see "of", I read "of" and I interpret "of", which is a word by itself. And a word that tends to break a sentence into a train wreck when placed instead of a verb. So doing it makes sentences very hard to read for me the first time.

Jens
2008-Nov-20, 05:53 AM
I never heard of dyslexia before emigrating to US, and for more than 10 years thought it was nonsense. My reasoning was that if dyslexia is as prevalent as adverised, USSR could never achieve 100% literacy -- which it really did achieve. I assumed dyslexia either does not exist, or is extremely rare.


I don't think a person being dyslexic would stop them from being considered literate. Literate does not mean that a person never makes spelling errors, in any language as far as I know. In the US, for example, the adult literacy rate (I assume you meant that, for even the Soviet Union could not possibly attain 100% total literacy :)) is maybe 99%.

Tog
2008-Nov-20, 09:03 AM
I'm a little dyslexic, I think, but I do it with numbers as well. Ironic considering my jobs have mainly revolved around cash handling and bookkeeping. What I have might actually be something different.

Here is how it works. The word "the" is pretty idiot resistant overall, yet I cannot write it by hand. My mind just won't make my hand do it. It comes out "HTE" nearly every single time. I can look at it and know that it's wrong, but when I try to correct it, I repeat the error again.

The amount, 7.98 is the same sort of thing. I know it's 2 cents less than 8 bucks, but I cannot seem to actually make my mouth say the words "seven ninety-eight" It always comes out "seven eighty-nine".

In both cases, my mind knows what is actually right, but I can't communicate it properly. I transpose letters from time to time when I type, but I think that may just be poor typing skills. I can't blame my "B" and "P" errors on that though. If a word is supposed to have a B sound, I have a tendency to type it with a P. I do this a lot, and usually catch it right off, then repeat it. K and G get the same treatment a lot of the time. Especially in "ink" words like "think" I default to "ing".

Another one I find myself doing a lot is the double word thing. I might have "and and" not because I went back to edit something, but just because I had a brain skip and didn't realize I typed it the first time. This can happen even when I have a good flow going. Best guess there is that my brain os going a lot faster than my hands, so it skips back from time to time to let my hands keep up. When I type, I hear the words I'm trying to write. If I'm trying to write in a specific style, I hear a person known for that style saying the words. This is why a lot of my rants remind people of John Cleese.

I didn't used to make the "then/than" errors until I started seeing others doing it. as it became more common for me to see it, I started catching myself doing it. Maybe I always did and just never notices until recently.

Nicolas
2008-Nov-20, 09:26 AM
Some years ago, I suddenly developed the habit of typing a p when I wanted a 9 (or vice versa?) sometimes, when my concentration was low and there was a pause in the typing.

tdvance
2008-Nov-20, 06:18 PM
Especially if you keep reading an l as an I (ell, eye) and can't think of a word like iegnor or ingeor or...

mugaliens
2008-Nov-20, 07:00 PM
Olny if the wodrs are blyisbailc or sthoerr. Any lgenor and the dticifulfy bmeeocs tunemerdos.

You said, "Only if the words are bisyllabic or shorter. Any longer and the difficulty becomes tremendous."

I'd have to say the difficulty becomes only slightly more difficult, especially when there are contextural clues which aid the process.