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Samuraikel
2009-Jan-31, 03:48 PM
Why are poeple getting Brain washed by 2012? I found out 2 years ago Nothing would happen, I was 16 then, But these [comment removed] people Brain washing Young minds who wan't to have a good future? It ridiculous, Tell me what you think.

Tucson_Tim
2009-Jan-31, 03:56 PM
. . . But these [comment removed] people . . .


Well, this is rather insulting to religious people in general.

Brilliant Aberration
2009-Jan-31, 04:04 PM
there are certainly some religious people who do stupid things and propagate stupid ideas. but in fairness to them, a lot of this 2012 insanity comes from plain old pseudo-science. it would be here with or without religion, though it may be just an alternative manifestation of some peoples' thirst for a fiery and exciting end to this planet during their lifetime so they get to see it.

there are plenty of things coming together for this storm, it's just the next in a long series of doomsday scenarios on which every proponent will stake their life.

PetersCreek
2009-Jan-31, 04:06 PM
Samuraikel,

Please take the time to read the Rules For Posting To This Board (http://www.bautforum.com/forum-rules-faqs-information/32864-rules-posting-board.html), particularly, the rules about civility and religious topics. You've violated both. We welcome new members but please consider this a gentle but official warning.

Samuraikel
2009-Jan-31, 04:11 PM
Samuraikel,

Please take the time to read the Rules For Posting To This Board (http://www.bautforum.com/forum-rules-faqs-information/32864-rules-posting-board.html), particularly, the rules about civility and religious topics. You've violated both. We welcome new members but please consider this a gentle but official warning.

Alrite sorry =l

gzhpcu
2009-Jan-31, 04:27 PM
Shouldn't this thread be moved to the CT forum?

Cougar
2009-Jan-31, 04:47 PM
Why are poeple getting Brain washed by 2012? I found out 2 years ago Nothing would happen, I was 16 then, But these [comment removed] people Brain washing Young minds who wan't to have a good future? It ridiculous, Tell me what you think.


Apocalyptic religions are marked by the conviction that God will intervene decisively in the present evil age and vindicate his suffering elect over their oppressors, raising the dead, consigning the wicked to eternal destruction, and establishing a new creation. -- The Free Dictionary (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Apocalyptic+religion)


As Michael Shermer pointed out in his book Why People Believe Weird Things, they believe such things mainly because it makes them feel good, gives them comfort and hope. As you've discovered, this has no basis in science or reality. Apparently, there are a lot of people who willingly drink the kool-aid.

awtoyscom
2009-Jan-31, 05:05 PM
hard to explain my own opinion ))))) better be to know your's

Fiery Phoenix
2009-Jan-31, 05:15 PM
I wouldn't say "brainwashed"; more like fascinated - which is hilarious at best.

hyperbyte
2009-Jan-31, 06:19 PM
has anyone seen the film jesus camp. its on google video if you want to watch it, that looks like brain washing to me.

Moose
2009-Jan-31, 07:00 PM
has anyone seen the film jesus camp. its on google video if you want to watch it, that looks like brain washing to me.

hyperbyte, as PetersCreek mentioned above, please take the time to read the Rules for Posting to this Board (http://www.bautforum.com/forum-rules-faqs-information/32864-rules-posting-board.html). In particular the general prohibition on religious discussion (either for or against).

We prohibit certain topics (religion and politics in particular) because such discussions tend to create hard feelings, something we'd prefer to avoid here.

In the same vein, please consider this also a gentle, but official warning.

To everybody else in this thread, it would be helpful if we could all try to please try to keep this discussion focused on the 2012 scare.

hyperbyte
2009-Jan-31, 08:08 PM
alrite, sorry about that

spratleyj
2009-Jan-31, 08:11 PM
Apocalyptic religions are marked by the conviction that God will intervene decisively in the present evil age and vindicate his suffering elect over their oppressors, raising the dead, consigning the wicked to eternal destruction, and establishing a new creation. -- The Free Dictionary (http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/Apocalyptic+religion)


As Michael Shermer pointed out in his book Why People Believe Weird Things, they believe such things mainly because it makes them feel good, gives them comfort and hope. As you've discovered, this has no basis in science or reality. Apparently, there are a lot of people who willingly drink the kool-aid.

Actually, Dawkins purposes a different reason for "religious" beliefs in The God Delusion, but since we're trying to say away from too much "religious" discussion :naughty:....

I'm not sure what the OP is getting at? Are you seeking a scientific explanation for the many "delusions" that people have - in particular paranoia about 2012?

novaderrik
2009-Jan-31, 09:11 PM
i think that people want to feel important, and being a part of the "last" generation of humans makes them feel somehow important.
or maybe being a part of the first generation after the end of the world as we know it (if they happen to survive, that is) makes them feel important- they get to rebuild from the ashes and help to mold the new world as they see fit. it sort of makes them feel almost God like to help to create a new world, i think.
as to why some people are pushing these ideas on the masses- there's money to be made on it, and it makes them feel important to have so many people believing what they say.

astromark
2009-Jan-31, 10:20 PM
There are those people who can not think for them selves. They need or want some one to do all the work for them. They hear a frightening explanation and except it as true without question. They are easily taken as fools. That is not so. Some of the people that are taken in by the sort of thing like the 2012 Armageddon are not fools. They are naive and often do not know any better. They do not have an consuming interest in astronomy and when prompted will except as true almost any dribble that comes along. They are far to busy having a life to bother with science. They do not have time to inquire. Never needed to. They are governed instead by trained dogma. Some times in the form of religious doctrine but definitely not brain washing. They just do not care. They do not need to. Some of these well intentioned individuals are so busy with work, dept, and just being good people that these science issues have never warranted attention. I am not a microbiologist nor a chemist. In those that are I trust... ( sometimes ).I do not self medicate. I trust those experts that do it for me. For most of us that is the norm. On matters of astronomy. Why would they question what they are told. You might think that is conditioned thinking. I do not. Its just being easily led. Lazy. We all do it at times and with differing degree.
It is our job or duty to correct the error... I feel absolutely clear that I must inform and spread the truth as I see it. Its also just as important to be responsible in the manor I do this. To miss-inform and fear monger is a form of corruption that should be considered a crime. To do it for monetary reward should invoke a prison term.
The media itself must take some responsibility for putting right this nonsense., but when have they ever shown responsibility.? No, its up to you and me to govern and correct. Only by sharing our knowledge of astronomy and informing the ignorant can we step back and say we did our best to balance the ledger... mark.

ジュース
2009-Feb-01, 12:40 AM
I kind of skipped all the posts before so please forgive me if I repeat something.

The fact behind the 2012 scare is that unforunately, many people are gullible. They will believe anything they are told if it has any thing tying it togethor. People seem to think that since the Mayan calendar ends, it means we will end. However, a lot of other people are just curious what, if anything will happen on (December 21) 2012. I for example, I wont say I am not a bit nervous about it but I am not scared. I just want to see what if anything will happen. If nothing, great. If something, well that won't be fun.

Moose
2009-Feb-01, 01:32 AM
Steve, you can expect the following to happen on December 21st, 2012:

* You will definitely have only three full shopping days (and change) until Christmas.
* You will be just as sick and tired of Christmas music as you were the day before.
* Furthermore, there will be a great darkness as the sun will set early for us northerners.
* The Ancient Mayans however, will enjoy a late-evening sunset.
* The Ancient Mayans will remain extinct.
* Computers that store dates in the Mayan calender format may be subject to the YBigNum bug. Check with your vendor for patches.
* You'll be around to see the 22nd.

The short answer is that the Mayan calendar will simply roll over back to whatever their equivalent for "1" is.

m74z00219
2009-Feb-01, 03:01 AM
the people who think something terrible will happen are bored. They're bored because they're boring. They're boring because they are thoughtless and don't care to use their brains for critical thinking.

Delvo
2009-Feb-01, 03:05 AM
My answer to the mystery of why there are so many people involved in such a widespread panic about it is simple: there aren't. Other than in this forum and another that's devoted to skepticism and (alleged) supernatural stuff, I've never seen or heard anything about it from anybody anywhere. Few have heard of it at all, and of those, few have received any actual details about what it's even supposed to be, and of those, few have taken it seriously to begin with, and of those, few have failed to figure out or find out the truth, and of those, some simply didn't care to bother looking into it or pondering it and haven't thought about it since. There's some tiny insignificant cult somewhere that's really worried about it, but they just don't make any difference. The appearance of them just gets magnified by people who come to forums like this one, because people here tend to seek out such obscure oddities and talk about them when nobody else out there knows they even exist or would care to bother giving them a moment's notice.

Gillianren
2009-Feb-01, 05:35 AM
You haven't watched the History Channel lately, have you? Or cruised upcoming movies?

Gandalf223
2009-Feb-01, 07:19 AM
Why are poeple getting Brain washed by 2012? ... It ridiculous, Tell me what you think.

I think the average IQ of the human species is decreasing over time.

Veeger
2009-Feb-01, 02:08 PM
I think the average IQ of the human species is decreasing over time.

Consider their information sources: television and the internet.

Now both may be useful if one had previously been taught critical thinking skills. Otherwise, we are starting to see the tip of the iceberg in gullibility.

Tucson_Tim
2009-Feb-01, 03:56 PM
I think the average IQ of the human species is decreasing over time.

Idiocracy? :)

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0387808/



As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species.

mugaliens
2009-Feb-01, 05:01 PM
* The Ancient Mayans however, will enjoy a late-evening sunset.
* The Ancient Mayans will remain extinct.

Both of those, huh?

:think:

Moose
2009-Feb-01, 05:15 PM
Yup. They're not necessarily mutually exclusive. Especially considering the Zombie Uprising already in progress.

astromark
2009-Feb-01, 06:26 PM
Reading between the lines.... We are in trouble. Looking at the above thread and wondering why so many are caught up by this apparent panic.... And taking into account that in actual fact very few actually care or know. If its not on the front page today then its not news... and less than 30% of all people actually see a news paper. The late Carl Sagan warned us of our apathy and the fact that that coupled with a 'Do not need to know' Yep we are dumbing down and that could kill us before a impacting rock does. Most of us can not even see the risk. When told of it 'Do not care'... Its not my problem... Yes it is.
Knowledge is power... I do not need to know could kill us all. How do we fix that ?

Swift
2009-Feb-01, 09:34 PM
I think the average IQ of the human species is decreasing over time.
I actually rather doubt that. I'm not convinced its increasing, but I'm not sure it is decreasing either. Humans have done stupid things for a long time. They get caught up in silly or illogical things. But they also do brilliant things. I'm unconvinced the ratio has changed very much in a long while. We survived the hula hoop craze, Beatlemania, the 60s, various cults, Y2K fears, Planet X, etc., etc. This too shall pass.

Gandalf223
2009-Feb-02, 12:09 AM
<re: avg. IQ decreasing> I'm not convinced its increasing, but I'm not sure it is decreasing either.

Every day, it seems, the mavens of political correctness tell us that another stupid idea is as valid, and deserves as much respect, as scientific theories that have literally all of the empirical evidence behind them. Not only are we, as a species, going downhill; I think maybe we're already past the point of no return.

eburacum45
2009-Feb-02, 12:57 AM
I think the average IQ of the human species is decreasing over time.

That doesn't seem to be supported by the data;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flynn_effect

The Flynn effect is the rise of average Intelligence Quotient (IQ) test scores over the generations, an effect seen in most parts of the world, although at greatly varying rates. It is named after James R. Flynn, who did much to document it and promote awareness of its implications. This increase has been continuous and roughly linear from the earliest days of testing to the present.I have every confidence that this trend will continue, for a variety of reasons.

novaderrik
2009-Feb-02, 04:59 AM
it's not that people are getting stupider or doing more stupid things than they ever did before, it's just that we hear about more of their stupid deeds and beliefs than we ever did before.

A.DIM
2009-Feb-02, 04:06 PM
The Popol Vuh is the primary source for all this 2012 conjecture: ending the 13th Baktun signifies the End of an Age, the fourth sun, and portends the return of the creator god.
Familiar indeed.
What people don't know is that just as in the christian prophecies of the return of a creator god, the "day one" date is ambiguous. Should we be using the Julian or Gregorian calendar in "translating" the Long Count?
A century ago it was suggested the Long Count calendar's divider/multiplier should be 360 not 365.25 which is what gives the 2012 date. Using 360 instead the "End of" date would be circa 2087 (i know, i know... this does nothing to assuage those of us wearied by the doom n gloom :o ).

Now, comparatively mythology is interesting and all but I suspect that following the end of the 13th Baktun, there will come the 14th, the 15th, 16th, etc.
It is a linear calendar after all, regardless any significance attributed to particular dates, or points, along the timeline.

Drunk Vegan
2009-Feb-02, 05:18 PM
As the 21st century began, human evolution was at a turning point. Natural selection, the process by which the strongest, the smartest, the fastest, reproduced in greater numbers than the rest, a process which had once favored the noblest traits of man, now began to favor different traits. Most science fiction of the day predicted a future that was more civilized and more intelligent. But as time went on, things seemed to be heading in the opposite direction. A dumbing down. How did this happen? Evolution does not necessarily reward intelligence. With no natural predators to thin the herd, it began to simply reward those who reproduced the most, and left the intelligent to become an endangered species.

Loved that movie - and totally agree with the narrator's point.

Also love this NOFX Song, "The Idiiots Are Taking Over" :

"it's not the right time to be sober
now the idiots have taken over
spreading like a social cancer, is there an answer?

Mensa membership receding
tell me why and how are all the stupid people breeding
Watson, it's really elementary
the industrial revolution
has flipped the <*****> on evolution
the benevolent and wise are being thwarted and ostracized, what a bummer
the world keeps getting dumber
insensitivity is standard
and faith is being fancied over reason

darwin's rolling over in his coffin
the fittest are surviving much less often
now everything seems to be reversing, and it's worsening
someone flopped a steamer in the gene pool
now angry mob mentality's no longer the exception, it's the rule
and im startin to feel a lot like charlton heston
stranded on a primate planet
apes and orangutans that ran it to the ground
with generals and the armies that obeyed them
followers following fables
philosophies that enable them to rule without regard

there's no point for democracy when ignorance is celebrated
political scientists get the same one vote as some Arkansas inbred
majority rule don't work in mental institutions
sometimes the smallest softest voice carries the grand biggest solutions

what are we left with?
a nation of god-fearing pregnant nationalists
who feel it's their duty to populate the homeland
pass on traditions
how to get ahead religions
And prosperity via simpleton culture

the idiots are taking over

Tucson_Tim
2009-Feb-02, 05:20 PM
Loved that movie - and totally agree with the narrator's point.


Same director as the earlier movie Office Space, which I liked a lot more.

eburacum45
2009-Feb-02, 06:06 PM
So the fact that the IQ of the population is actually increasing is irrelevant?

People today in many, if not all, cultures, have a very complex, fact-rich environment to deal with; I'm not surprised that sometimes their reality filter fails to operate. But don't make the mistake of thinking we are sinking into some final decline; there is enough doomsaying and eschastology out there to lead people astray.

Humanity is doing fine, and the future can, and will get better.

astromark
2009-Feb-02, 06:39 PM
Why is it a issue ? Because even the ignorant can visualize a impacting comet or meteor wrecking havoc on our environment. The threat of imminent death tends to grab the attention of even a fool. The world is full of ignorant people and fools. They seem to breed at a greater rate than the geeks... but out of the gloom does come the gem... Education is a wonderful gift.

Murphy
2009-Feb-04, 09:28 AM
A century ago it was suggested the Long Count calendar's divider/multiplier should be 360 not 365.25 which is what gives the 2012 date. Using 360 instead the "End of" date would be circa 2087 (i know, i know... this does nothing to assuage those of us wearied by the doom n gloom ).

Oh no! You've just given the whackos a perfect get-out clause. When absolutely nothing happens in 2012 they will all say "Ah ha, it must have been miscalculated and the apocalypse is really going to happen in 2087!" :lol:

Also, did anybody notice that there are now Google ads appearing at the bottom of this very website linking to this 2012 baloney? (possibly Google automatically picks up on it because we're talking about it).

So I'm wondering how exactly a little cult website has the money to put ads on Google, oh yeah because the site is really all about selling "2012 Merchandise", the whole thing is just a commercial scam.

Most likely the people behind it don't even believe it, they just come up with something suitably apocalyptic and mystical sounding and they know that at least some idiots will be willing to give them cash for it. It's an organised industry.:rolleyes:

Moose
2009-Feb-04, 12:52 PM
No sack cloth and signboards for almost eighty years? Sounds great. Where do I sign up?

megrfl
2009-Feb-04, 02:53 PM
Why are poeple getting Brain washed by 2012? Tell me what you think.

This isn't helping... http://www.apocalypse2012.com/ ... Allow it to go through its little introduction, listen to the relaxing music and in case you fall asleep, an alarm sounds at the end.

The author, Lawrence E. Joseph, lives in Beverly Hills. What an odd place to live considering that California is going to fall off into the Pacific Ocean.

What happens when nothing happens on Dec. 21, 2012? Nothing, he will still have his money.

I like this report. Short and sweet.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm

Swift
2009-Feb-04, 03:05 PM
I like this report. Short and sweet.
http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2007-03-27-maya-2012_n.htm
But unfortunately, it contains incorrect information. From the linked article:

Part of the 2012 mystique stems from the stars. On the winter solstice in 2012, the sun will be aligned with the center of the Milky Way for the first time in about 26,000 years. This means that "whatever energy typically streams to Earth from the center of the Milky Way will indeed be disrupted on 12/21/12 at 11:11 p.m. Universal Time," Joseph writes
:naughty:

Moose
2009-Feb-04, 03:16 PM
Oh wow. That's "not even wrong".

megrfl
2009-Feb-04, 03:21 PM
But unfortunately, it contains incorrect information. From the linked article:

:naughty:

Ya, I was gonna ask if that was accurate, regardless, I like what this gal had to say...
University of Florida anthropologist Susan Gillespie says the 2012 phenomenon comes "from media and from other people making use of the Maya past to fulfill agendas that are really their own."

dodecahedron
2009-Feb-05, 03:11 AM
http://scienceblogs.com/notrocketscience/2008/12/lacking_control_drives_false_conclusions_conspirac y_theories.php
http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126941.700-born-believers-how-your-brain-creates-god.html

Pretty sure that these links can sum up the hubub when it comes to millennialism and 2012. People are hardwired to be religious and it most likely stems from the adage of discretion being the better part of valor being part of survival and it's kinda like Pascal's Wager.
These [comment removed] (LOL) people have nothing to lose by finding solace in something which may or may not be inevitable. With faith in a deity or utter annihilation in three years can alleviate one's anxieties, allowing an individual turn their attention to more manageable things rather than trying to save the world by tilting at windmills.
Plus these folks have everything to gain if there is a god or 2012 never actually happens because god will hug them and squeeze them and call them George. If 2012 never happens then everyone's going to party hard having dodged that bullet dancing on those Mayan graves. If there is no god then all they did was waste their time talking into their hands and if 2012 does come to pass making all of us look like chumps then no one will be left to rub it in our faces.

closetgeek
2009-Feb-05, 02:25 PM
You haven't watched the History Channel lately, have you? Or cruised upcoming movies?

I just had this discussion with a friend of mine who watches those shows habitually. About two weeks ago she called and asked me to recommend a non-fiction book for her to read so I sent her my copy of Demon Haunted World. She now calls to talk about real stuff.
BTW I have been going to the movies a lot, lately, since Nov, the last preview they show before the movie begins is:

http://www.imdb.com/video/imdb/vi1799487513/

I especially love the "find out the truth...google 2012" at the end. You know people aren't going to go home and google it, then search through to find a legitimate site. They are going to see all the claim sites then conclude that anything debunking is obviously the govt trying to prevent a global panic.

Krowser
2009-Feb-05, 04:50 PM
it's not that people are getting stupider or doing more stupid things than they ever did before, it's just that we hear about more of their stupid deeds and beliefs than we ever did before.

In other words, moronic ideas spread faster than ever...

It's true!!! I saw it on the Interwebs!!!

duhhhhhh...

That 2012 crap is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Were pitting modern science against the religious beleifs of people who sacrificed each other because they beleived our sun was a god and that he controlled the weather. (Although it's true the sun does, but not in the way they thought)

The same goes for astrology. Yes, I'm gonna get hit by a car today because the Orion constelation is pointing a little more North than usual.

Please... Science wins. Aaaagain.

Malfunky
2009-Feb-06, 08:11 AM
Hey guys. Been a visitor to UT for about a year now. I have to say, it's changed the way I look at things. It's a fantastic site and I visit it daily.

I just want to give a perspective from the "brainwashed" side. Or rather, the side of the naive and impressionable.

I learned about the Mayan 2012 date when I was 12, in 7th grade history class. We were studying Pre-Columbian Mesoamerican culture, so our teacher had us watching videos on their history. They were interesting at first. I particularly remember their ingenious method of winding rope, of all things. Then we got to a particular portion on a particular video about the Mayan calendars. It talked about their accuracy and their complexity. How they were rarely, if ever, off on predicting celestial events. Then the good stuff came. The video explained that they "predicted when the world will end" and that it was a date that Mayan ancestors "dreaded" to this day. Needless to say, I was a bit startled. I remember looking around the class to see if anyone else had the same reaction. You can bet this ruined the rest of my day. So, when I got home I looked up the date on Google. In my panic, I read the first few search results. I remember something about the sun exploding. I closed that as fast as possible.

I was always a bit of an anxiety-prone kid. My imagination ruled my life. Here's a funny example. I was afraid UFOs would abduct me if I thought about them. I didn't even want to go out at night in fear of seeing a UFO. I really had no grasp of skeptical thought. So, I took the Mayan "prophecy" as fact. I learned it in school, after all. It was presented as fact.

The years following, my fear UFOs turned into interest. It was in my search for extra-terrestrial information that I wandered onto, unbeknownst to me, a conspiracy theory message board. And there I stumbled upon a warning of the illustrious Planet X. It was supposed to hit in less than a year and there was no doubt that it would happen. It was presented as fact. I remember the date clearly. May 15, 2003. Boy, did I count the days to that one. I went to school on the day of its supposed arrival. It was a very gloomy, with thick gray clouds covering the sky. I half expected that to be part of a government cover up. I didn't say a word about it to anybody. I felt like a coward. There was even a solar eclipse that night and you can probably imagine how I felt about that.

May 15 came and went and everyone was still alive. Our planet's poles were in their natural positions, giant tsunamis and killer earthquakes didn't devour the land. Whew.

But I still had another date to dread. 2012 was still on the way. Well, there were a few dates. I always found myself wandering onto message boards filled with these conspiracy guys. Warnings of comets and the like, you know.

Just a few years ago I was skimming through TV channels. I accidentally wandered onto the a History Channel during a special about the "Bible Code." I kept it on to see what all the hubbub was about. So, the narrator went on to tell me about its supposed predictions. September 11, Saddam Hussein, and even everyone's favorite year. And in that fateful year, a comet may or may not destroy the world. It cut to interviews of scholarly looking gentlemen presenting it as fact. Now, I actually considered myself agnostic at the time, but this was quite the surprise. It really shook me.

Time went on and I still thought about our inevitable doom every day. It was a terrible way to live and I'd be lying If I said it didn't greatly affect my life.

So, you've no doubt noticed my not-so subtle pattern of bolded information. All of these things were presented to me as fact. There was no counter argument, no critical thought. But this was partially my fault. I was afraid of the truth. I couldn't bare looking this information up for myself. I didn't want to know anymore. I feared I might find more information that would feed my fears. I wanted to keep hope. So, I went years with only the "starting arguments" in my mind and my imagination to fill in the rest.

But there's a funny thing about information. Sometimes it will find it's way to you. Sometimes the door will be right in front of you. Sometimes you'll muster up enough courage to face your fears and open new doors. And every time, you'll be rewarded.

I read about the Bible Code and how it was complete bunk. I learned about skeptical thought. I learned of the great skeptics and scientists of our time and have grown to respect them greatly. I found the works of Carl Sagan, who warned us all about the dangers of pseudo-science, superstition, and fear of the truth. I learned about Michael Shermer and his conversion to reason. I learned about James Randi and his mastery and full admission of deception. I found Universe Today and read all of Ian O'Neills articles on 2012, which later lead me to other sites explaining explaining these hoaxes and the frauds perpetrating them. My life has been changed. I've rediscovered the wonders of science and through that, found my enlightenment. To paraphrase Dr. Sagan, "'The universe is better than I thought! It is much bigger than our prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant."

As humans, we have no control over such grand things, and so we hope for miraculous events or people to save us. Some of us can't help but fear. Some of us can't help our misguided conjectures. I'm still trying to shake off almost 20 years of superstition. It's no easy task, but man am I happy to have come this far. In a way, my fears helped me become who I am today and I'm very thankful for that.

Word.

Neverfly
2009-Feb-06, 08:24 AM
As first posts go, Malfunky, this one deserves an award for excellence.
I would hope, now that you've registered, that you will continue to contribute to the board.


In the meantime, you make the point that these things are presented as facts. This is true and always has been. Charlatans most certainly would not want to admit to any doubt.

And sadly, much of the spread of disinformation takes place in the classroom.
Many who spread the misinformation are also doing so because they learned it as "fact."
But you also found your way out, boldly and not only began reading and learning and expanding and growing, you are sharing as well.
Sharing is the most important part.
Without Fraser sharing with Universe Today, without Phil Plait sharing on Bad Astronomy, without the countless members here that share their experience and knowledge, what is presented here as fact would remain as "fact." Without Dawkins and Sagan writing in popular culture, (Boldly go, Carl!)what is presented as fact on the "supposed" Learning, Discovery and History channels would remain as "fact."


Now you can present things as facts, too. And you have an advantage.

Evidence. Mathematical, observational and predictable evidence.

Not only can you learn, but you can also spread that learning to others. So that those who were presented "facts" can learn critical thinking too.
Just as Many of Us that joined the forum have been learning.

Welcome to BAUT.

Rue
2009-Feb-08, 07:10 PM
Hey guys...

I wish we could give reps for posts on this board because that was awesome.

There are those, even some skeptics, who believe that the fight against pseudoscience is unimportant and that there will always be snake oil salesmen, but one must remember the effect such nonsense might have on young minds.