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Sticks
2009-Feb-07, 01:55 PM
I read somewhere a long time ago that there is supposedly a protocol penned down for the day that intelligent life elsewhere other than Earth is found, and that protocol deals with telling the world of this finding, or not

The question is, does that protocol actually exist officially?

I vaguely remember a certain Richard Hoagland referring to some document saying that such information could cause problems with certain extremist groups, so would that be this protocol or something RH has misrepresented?

Argos
2009-Feb-07, 02:02 PM
Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/seti-declaration-detection.htm)

Itīs a draft thatīs been rolling around for some years. Iīm not sure about the implementation of an international Treaty on the issue.

astromark
2009-Feb-08, 06:16 PM
Who knows...?

How would people react largely depends on what and how you tell them.

Its conceivable to assume that its a secret that could not be kept.

After all, it is not govt.,secret agencies that would receive any communication attempt.
Information attained by the scientific community is in the public domain now. Why do you think 'Big brother' could change that.?

Swift
2009-Feb-08, 06:30 PM
I read somewhere a long time ago that there is supposedly a protocol penned down for the day that intelligent life elsewhere other than Earth is found, and that protocol deals with telling the world of this finding, or not

The question is, does that protocol actually exist officially?

Penned by who? Even if the government of Finland, for example, had a protocol, it doesn't mean Peru will follow it. Even a UN policy may not be binding.

gzhpcu
2009-Feb-08, 07:03 PM
Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence (http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/seti-declaration-detection.htm)

Itīs a draft thatīs been rolling around for some years. Iīm not sure about the implementation of an international Treaty on the issue.

Some more information on the draft...


The broad-brush outline for Earth's response to the first alien encounter is set out in an international agreement called the "Declaration of Principles Concerning Activities Following the Detection of Extraterrestrial Intelligence." Written by a committee of scientists organized by the SETI Institute, the declaration spells out what astronomers should do, and what they should avoid doing, immediately after first contact.

source: http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/air_space/1283081.html?page=3

and then, the Brookings Report:


The relevant portion notes that while direct contact with extraterrestrials is unlikely,
"Evidences of its existence might also be found in artifacts left on the moon or other planets . The consequences for attitudes and values are unpredictable, but would vary profoundly in different cultures and between groups within complex societies; a crucial factor would be the nature of the communication between us and the other beings. Whether or not earth would be inspired to an all-out space effort by such a discovery is moot: societies sure of their own place in the universe have disintegrated when confronted by a superior society, and others have survived even though changed. Clearly, the better we can come to understand the factors involved in responding to such crises the better prepared we may be."

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookings_Report

peteshimmon
2009-Feb-08, 07:13 PM
They would load the news into a computer
with instructions to keep the information
confidential. And the computer would go mad!


Open the pod-bay doors...

Veeger
2009-Feb-08, 07:39 PM
Its the unofficial reaction that concerns me. Say some guy finds alien life in a desert somewhere; I think at some point someone is going to want to know how it tastes.

raptorthang
2009-Feb-08, 08:12 PM
Penned by who? Even if the government of Finland, for example, had a protocol, it doesn't mean Peru will follow it. Even a UN policy may not be binding.

So true. Who exactly are the folks who would decide policy? All members of the Ecuador coalition?... the king of Togoland can tell his son but not his wife? If it becomes public knowledge then Iran and the the UK will say 'aw shucks' and hold hands?

Most science fiction books are just that, 'fiction'. Beijing isn't going to take orders from Moscow who can't tell Tehran what to do. Governments in New Dehli and Islamabad can't even agree on signage at their border let alone how to deal with aliens. Perhaps the guys firing rockets from Gaza would want to get on the good side of the aliens.

Maybe the aliens would first send messages to Uzbekistan because that county's flag contains the universal colours that mean something to them. the Uzbekis become the word's dominant technological society.

mugaliens
2009-Feb-08, 10:24 PM
Who exactly are the folks who would decide policy?

If aliens appear, I will decide.

Heh-heh.

Mu-heh...

MUUUWWAAAHA-HA-HA-HA!!!!

WayneFrancis
2009-Feb-08, 10:51 PM
Depends on who's making contact with who.

If it is direct contact then there are 2 possibilities

1) If we make contact then either
A) We are doing via standard communication methods and they probably won't be answering for a few hundred years
B) If we are meeting them "face to face" then again it is probably a few thousand years from now.

2) They make contact with us.
A) We've found a signal and it probably isn't directed at us (humans) but just at a habitable planet they detected hundreds of years ago before sending the message
B) Same as A but they sent a probe probably not as dramatic as 2001 but you never know
C) They come to greet us "Face to Face" in which case it isn't us that dictate what happens but them.

I've always laughed at all the UFO crash stories. If there is a race that does interstellar travel then what do you think the odds are that after a few hundred light years of flying here they'll crash while "parking" as for being hostile. I'd think that trying to attack them would be much like a bunch of cave men trying to attack an Apache helicopter.

As for communicating with a race "face to face" it would probably be the traveling race that makes the communication. IE unlike close encounters of the 3rd kind where we figure out their musical language they'll probably come across the radio and say "Yea hi, can you get Mr Obama on the line for me. I really need to talk to him. Thanks"

I'm sure that they'll have mastered our languages better then 90% of our population have.

dodecahedron
2009-Feb-09, 12:14 AM
Long time ago an acquaintance told me there was a study where a think-tank hypothesized that 13 pillars of civilization (economy, religion, society, art, etc.) out of 14 would collapse upon first contact with an alien civilization.
Sadly the person never provided a cite even though he'd constantly reference it.
I'm hoping most people would be upset or excited by the event and about a year later (barring "To Serve Man") they'd be pretty blase about it, already forming Terra First organizations, trying to learn the xeno tongue, interstellar dating sites (fragrant Cetian females are waiting for you!) arguing if the aliens had souls or if they were passed over for 'salvation' or their deity decided the aliens weren't even close to requiring that kind of divine intervention among other nonsense.

I know I started the thread, but two of the words you used, I replaced as they are not considered acceptable
Apart from that there are valid points here - many thanks for your input

Sticks

raptorthang
2009-Feb-09, 04:44 AM
Depends on who's making contact with who.



I've always laughed at all the UFO crash stories. If there is a race that does interstellar travel then what do you think the odds are that after a few hundred light years of flying here they'll crash while "parking" as for being hostile. I'd think that trying to attack them would be much like a bunch of cave men trying to attack an Apache helicopter.


True. As for their technology...they attempt to avoid being detected by mankind but haven't yet invented the on/off switch to turn the lights off on the outside of their spacecraft.

"there were these strange lights unlike anythig I've ever seen before"

dodecahedron
2009-Feb-09, 05:02 AM
They attempt to avoid being detected by mankind but haven't yet invented the on/off switch to turn the lights off on the outside of their spacecraft.

1. They're alien teenagers who are illicitly sneaking into what amounts to be a nature preserve. Nobody is going to believe the humans when they say they spoke with aliens.

2. How else are we supposed to know if they're aliens unless there are weird, bright lights?

3. UFOs are required to follow the same rules and regulations for aircraft including running lights at night.

Sticks
2009-Feb-09, 06:11 AM
As a matter of interest, I was gaining research material for a sci-fi thing I am doing elsewhere.

In my series of stories I have a world in a parallel universe populated by creatures from our mythologies and fantasy literatures and the stories relate to interactions between that world and ours. In the later stories the existence of this alternate world is regarded as ultra secret by Earth authorities, led by the US who have entered a co-operation pact with it's rulers and Earth has a special agency to deal with this co-operation pact.

For the end of current story line cliff hanger, I thought I would have the head of the secret agency switching on to CNN to see one of the rulers of that world being put on show by a government unfriendly to the US. The one I picked is Venezuela.

So the idea that not all countries would follow a set protocol as mentioned by others is one I can use - many thanks

Gandalf223
2009-Feb-09, 06:53 AM
I don't know about other countries, but I expect the U.S. would react something like this:

The government would deny the aliens existed. The Democrats would declare them a protected species, and the Republicans would declare that they had weapons of mass destruction. Rush Limbaugh would tell us the aliens are a liberal plot, and Steven Colbert would make a rap video about them.

Ara Pacis
2009-Feb-09, 09:35 AM
Its the unofficial reaction that concerns me. Say some guy finds alien life in a desert somewhere; I think at some point someone is going to want to know how it tastes.

Like chicken.

I swear I came into this thread to make that very joke before I saw your setup. :)

ToSeek
2009-Feb-09, 04:01 PM
I don't know about other countries, but I expect the U.S. would react something like this:

The government would deny the aliens existed. The Democrats would declare them a protected species, and the Republicans would declare that they had weapons of mass destruction. Rush Limbaugh would tell us the aliens are a liberal plot, and Steven Colbert would make a rap video about them.

If I didn't have to wear my moderator hat, I'd say this is a pretty funny post. However, wearing said hat, I have to ask you to avoid bringing politics into this, no matter how entertaining.

mugaliens
2009-Feb-09, 09:34 PM
True. As for their technology...they attempt to avoid being detected by mankind but haven't yet invented the on/off switch to turn the lights off on the outside of their spacecraft.

Well, it's the polarity. It's complicated.

Sticks
2009-Feb-09, 10:50 PM
Is that the famous "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" :whistle:

For bragging rights, which TV show did that line come from?

captain swoop
2009-Feb-10, 12:03 AM
1. They're alien teenagers who are illicitly sneaking into what amounts to be a nature preserve. Nobody is going to believe the humans when they say they spoke with aliens.

'Teasers'

raptorthang
2009-Feb-10, 12:31 AM
Speaking of aliens,

Whenever someone starts cherry picking sites on the Internet 'to support' some questionable scientific concept....just point out to them that if they Google 'Alien Abduction' at last count there are 1,960,000 hits.

Bearded One
2009-Feb-10, 01:02 AM
Is that the famous "reverse the polarity of the neutron flow" :whistle:

For bragging rights, which TV show did that line come from?Doctor Who at his finest!

kleindoofy
2009-Feb-10, 03:35 AM
What would officially happen if we ever find alien life...
Officially? Dunno.

But I will eat my hat.

Krowser
2009-Feb-11, 05:21 PM
It depends where they land.

If it's in Canada, people will try to make first contact.
If it's in the Southern portion of the US, they will get shot on sight (Git off Ma land!)
If it's in Africa, no one will notice
If it's in China, their vessel will get dismantled and sold for parts to the govt. before they even know what's going on.

But seriously, if they are peaceful and they land, we talk.

If they want to blow us up from orbit.... they blow us up from orbit. Unless we crash the ISS into them.

Sticks
2009-Feb-11, 09:36 PM
It depends where they land.

If it's in Canada, people will try to make first contact.
If it's in the Southern portion of the US, they will get shot on sight (Git off Ma land!)
If it's in Africa, no one will notice
If it's in China, their vessel will get dismantled and sold for parts to the govt. before they even know what's going on.


If they land in the UK then their ship will be clamped and a big sticker will be placed on the front and they will be charged Ģ90 for a release fee :whistle:

Sticks
2009-Feb-11, 09:37 PM
Of course getting back to topic, so it seems there is a protocol, but there is no guarantee that all countries will follow it.

neilzero
2010-Jan-31, 04:23 AM
In most scenarios there would be reasonable doubt about the ET, so some would believe, others would debunk. Most people would think maybe, and not give the mater much more thought. Please suggest a scenario in which nearly everyone would believe with high certainty. A Tasmanian devil look alike visiting every block in every village and city perhaps? Neil

01101001
2010-Jan-31, 04:29 AM
Of course getting back to topic, so it seems there is a protocol, but there is no guarantee that all countries will follow it.

Is there, has there ever been, any guarantee all countries will do any particular thing in reaction to some event?

Brown Dwarf
2010-Feb-02, 04:32 AM
8. No response to a signal or other evidence of extraterrestrial intelligence should be sent until appropriate international consultations have taken place. The procedures for such consultations will be the subject of a separate agreement, declaration or arrangement.Link (http://www.astrosurf.com/luxorion/seti-declaration-detection.htm)

So, if there's lights outside my bedroom one night and an alien beams himself to my bedside and says, "How are you?", I can't say, "It's my back. Can you do anything about it?"?

I'd love to hear the argument over what, if anything, we would 'say' back to an obvious extra terrestrial signal. We certainly can't hush up and play dead. And before they hear the reply decided upon by our international committee they'd have already heard "Bang, zoom, to the moon Alice!" by Jackie Gleason a hundred times.

astromark
2010-Feb-02, 08:29 AM
What would happen ?

A large vessel or ship would be detected having slowed from light speed or more... As it entered high Earth orbit. We would be very curious and concerned... Days or weeks could pass while we waited and they watched... or they waited and we watched...

Honestly how could we know.
How would we react. How could it unfold.
Obviously there are as many possible outcomes as there are ideas...

BUT... It has not happened yet and it may never. This universe is very very big. and very very old. Or young... please yourself. We might be the first or one of many. Might we ever know ? maybe.

Jens
2010-Feb-02, 08:37 AM
So, if there's lights outside my bedroom one night and an alien beams himself to my bedside and says, "How are you?", I can't say, "It's my back. Can you do anything about it?"?


Well, you can. The document you quoted from is just an informal document offering suggestions. It's not binding. So definitely, ask about your back problem. Though your insurance may not cover the bill, so I'd be careful.

Gomar
2010-Feb-03, 05:07 AM
If aliens land on Earth all religions will collapse over night as no religion mentions any life beyond the Earth. In which bible does it say god created life on some other planet? Our Jesus did not die for the sins of aliens, only for mankind. Was the Torah and the 10 commandments given to all life in the universe or only to Earth people? Will an alien stepping out of his ship be considered a messenger from god? The messiah? A prophet? The anti-Christ? Lucifer? Satan's agent sent to tempt humans to sin against god? Perhaps he'll be an escaped convict possessing super-human powers(Superman II).
Perhaps he'll provide us with the cure for cancer and be declared ruler of the people of Earth.

Luckmeister
2010-Feb-03, 05:40 AM
If aliens land on Earth all religions will collapse over night as no religion mentions any life beyond the Earth. In which bible does it say god created life on some other planet? Our Jesus did not die for the sins of aliens, only for mankind. Was the Torah and the 10 commandments given to all life in the universe or only to Earth people? Will an alien stepping out of his ship be considered a messenger from god? The messiah? A prophet? The anti-Christ? Lucifer? Satan's agent sent to tempt humans to sin against god? Perhaps he'll be an escaped convict possessing super-human powers(Superman II).
Perhaps he'll provide us with the cure for cancer and be declared ruler of the people of Earth.

Hopefully none of the above.
ETA: Except for the cancer part.

PetersCreek
2010-Feb-03, 07:19 AM
If aliens land on Earth all religions will collapse over night as no religion mentions any life beyond the Earth.

Before anyone picks up this ball and runs with it, I have to warn that the quote post is outside the limits of discussion set forth in rule 12. There is no doubt in my mind that the "official" announcement of extraterrestrial life (especially intelligent ET life) would have significant impact on many belief systems and while this topic isn't a neat fit with rule 12 as written, we could have had limited, polite, and very general discussion of that impact. However, BAUT is not the place to dissect, debunk, deconstruct, or disparage religion(s)...as a whole or individually.

Have a care, please.

astromark
2010-Feb-03, 08:42 AM
Humanities diverse ability to adapt. In all things. Is epick, and one of, if not the only reason we prevail. I am talking of the food we consume, the climate we live in., and yes religious belief structures...
The arrival of a ET would not deal a killer blow to religion... adjust and adapt... Is the way its always been and will be. I would think many would turn to the religiouse leaders for guidence in such matters. I can see no problem with that.
Tolerance and understanding is a massive tool and good education provides the ability to adjust. What would really happen on the discovery of a ET ?
It would be interesting... Life changing or even catastophic... or not much at all.
After all there are thousands whom think it's already happened.

slang
2010-Feb-03, 08:59 AM
Alien life was found (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Hills_84001#Possible_lifeforms), and society didn't collapse. I think the discussion on whether it is life or not is still ongoing. A quick look at the news indicates that most of our trouble has much more mundane causes than alien life.

astromark
2010-Feb-03, 06:33 PM
Alien life was found (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allan_Hills_84001#Possible_lifeforms), and society didn't collapse. I think the discussion on whether it is life or not is still ongoing. A quick look at the news indicates that most of our trouble has much more mundane causes than alien life.

Might I remind you that... This rock sample found on the antarctic continent MAY have come from Mars and MIGHT have a fossilized microbic thing.... or not. I would be cautious about confirming life from such.
To confirm life.. I expect something living..

Noclevername
2010-Feb-03, 09:09 PM
The official plan is, we'll wing it.