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View Full Version : Battlestar Galactica on the Sci-Fi channel.



HAVOC451
2003-Nov-29, 08:41 AM
I watched the preview show (Battlestar Galactica: The Lowdown) and it looks like it might be really good. They promised to err on the side of scientific reality!
Am I the only one looking forward to this?

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2003-Nov-29, 09:27 AM
I don't know ...

I've always thought Battlestar Galactica was a bit too much like a Recruitment Pamphlet for The Church of Scientology.

But, I guess that's what naturally happens when L. Ron Hubbard creates a show ....

HAVOC451
2003-Nov-29, 10:01 AM
I didn't know Hubbard created Battlestar Galactica. :o
I'm looking for space battles anyway and i'm immune to the lures of psuedo religion.

Ikyoto
2003-Nov-29, 05:43 PM
The only one who seems to be having a real problem wiht it is Richard Hatch. He's just pissed because his attempt to resurect the show was turned down.

And the fanboys who are up in arms about a couple of changes in the genders of two characters - as long as the acting is better than the originals i couldn't care less!

And the way they describe the scenes - as though the battles were being filmed by a live crew with slightly less than perfect focus and sudden shifts towards where more action is taking place. I think it'll work well.

The story is what i'm looking for. The original was written with all the concern of an episode of Love Boat. I want to see some real character development and depth to the history behind the scenes.

Tuckerfan
2003-Nov-29, 07:23 PM
There's a copy of the script floating around on the net. I couldn't even make it through the first page it's so bad. I've heard that farther along they screw the physics up something fierce. Edward James Almos has been quoted as saying folks shouldn't watch it. Gotta be bad if one of the star's is saying it sucks.

Oh, and Zaphod, the creator of the original series was a Mormon, so he was recruiting for that, and not Scientology, if he was recruiting for anything.

SeanF
2003-Nov-30, 12:27 AM
Edward James Almos has been quoted as saying folks shouldn't watch it. Gotta be bad if one of the star's is saying it sucks.

Olmos said that fans of the original shouldn't watch the new one, not that people in general shouldn't watch it.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2003-Nov-30, 06:34 AM
Oh, and Zaphod, the creator of the original series was a Mormon, so he was recruiting for that, and not Scientology, if he was recruiting for anything.

True, as far as Glen A. Larson is concerned, although I swear I remember seeing Hubbard's name listed in the Credits, I think as a Creative Consultant.

At any rate, I tend to shy away from Von Daniken-type Stories that posit an Earth-Based Humanity, as being merely the fallen remnants of an Interstellar Civilisation.

There are some exceptions, i.e. Stargate: SG-1, but that's mostly because they don't take themselves too seriously, I mean a good laugh is one thing, but I don't tend to like shows that Belittle our Cavemen Ancestors.

Tuckerfan
2003-Nov-30, 07:02 PM
Edward James Almos has been quoted as saying folks shouldn't watch it. Gotta be bad if one of the star's is saying it sucks.

Olmos said that fans of the original shouldn't watch the new one, not that people in general shouldn't watch it.Here's the original draft of the script. (http://battlestarfanclub.com/battlestar/bgarticle26.htm) Frankly, if this is the direction they're going with it, I don't think anyone should watch it.

Zombywoof (Jedi Knight)
2003-Nov-30, 08:44 PM
It looks pretty good. But if I remember correctly from the original series is that the Cylons were created by another race (not humans) that are long since dead. And I don't remember if there were any Cylons that looked like us. I like the ways the new mechanical ones look. I don't expect them to as dumb as the onens fro the original series.

chani
2003-Nov-30, 10:09 PM
:-& howdy havoc

Earthbound
2003-Nov-30, 10:18 PM
It looks pretty good. But if I remember correctly from the original series is that the Cylons were created by another race (not humans) that are long since dead. And I don't remember if there were any Cylons that looked like us. I like the ways the new mechanical ones look. I don't expect them to as dumb as the onens fro the original series.

I was under the impression that the original Cylons were reptilian (Imperious Leader is suppose to look like the original Cylons). If you read any of the books it goes into detail about how Cylons start out with one brain and as they grow they develop more brains and how the robots were built and used as soldiers, etc. So, I don't think they were contructed by humans in the original series. Its been a long time since I've read any Battlestar books, but that kind of sticks out.

HAVOC451
2003-Dec-01, 10:12 AM
I read a bit of the draft. I can't say that I saw anything that will keep me from watching it.








Hi there chani.

daver
2003-Dec-01, 07:42 PM
It looks pretty good. But if I remember correctly from the original series is that the Cylons were created by another race (not humans) that are long since dead. And I don't remember if there were any Cylons that looked like us. I like the ways the new mechanical ones look. I don't expect them to as dumb as the onens fro the original series.

Hmm, i got the feeling (from the original series, or perhaps a novelization of the "movie" (the first two or three episodes were pasted together and released theatrically in Europe)) that the Cylons were machine intelligences, originally created by humans as workers, who achieved sentience and went off to found their own machine world.

2003-Dec-01, 10:22 PM
For those critiquing the script: From experience, I can tell you that the scripts tend to change wildly--even as an episode is being produced. What may be seen on the screen may not resemble your draft at all.

I have a vast feeling of uncertainty about all this...but then, I don't get the Sci-Fi channel so I guess my concerns are moot.

Avatar28
2003-Dec-01, 11:06 PM
It looks pretty good. But if I remember correctly from the original series is that the Cylons were created by another race (not humans) that are long since dead. And I don't remember if there were any Cylons that looked like us. I like the ways the new mechanical ones look. I don't expect them to as dumb as the onens fro the original series.

Hmm, i got the feeling (from the original series, or perhaps a novelization of the "movie" (the first two or three episodes were pasted together and released theatrically in Europe)) that the Cylons were machine intelligences, originally created by humans as workers, who achieved sentience and went off to found their own machine world.

That was my understanding too. That they were machines created by the humans and that they got out of control and started wiping the humans out. I wonder if the BG will reach Earth this time...

informant
2003-Dec-02, 01:05 PM
The only one who seems to be having a real problem wiht it is Richard Hatch. He's just pissed because his attempt to resurect the show was turned down.

And the fanboys who are up in arms about a couple of changes in the genders of two characters (...)
So it isn't just Richard Hatch, after all... :)


as long as the acting is better than the originals i couldn't care less!
I doubt it will be. The original had talented, experienced actors like Lorne Greene, Lloyd Bridges, and also actors who were younger but had personality, like Dirk Benedict.
Most of the actors in the remake are bland unknowns chosen for their pretty looks.


I've heard that farther along they screw the physics up something fierce.
IIRC, they had a space station hiding in a gas giant...



Edward James Almos has been quoted as saying folks shouldn't watch it. Gotta be bad if one of the star's is saying it sucks.

Olmos said that fans of the original shouldn't watch the new one, not that people in general shouldn't watch it.
We’ve had a thread regarding this:
Galactica Star Says Not to Watch (http://www.badastronomy.com/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=6744)


I was under the impression that the original Cylons were reptilian (Imperious Leader is suppose to look like the original Cylons). If you read any of the books it goes into detail about how Cylons start out with one brain and as they grow they develop more brains and how the robots were built and used as soldiers, etc. So, I don't think they were contructed by humans in the original series. Its been a long time since I've read any Battlestar books, but that kind of sticks out.
The novelizations and the TV show didn’t always agree. However, the Cylons were not built by the humans in either of them. In the novelizations, the Cylons were aliens under the armors. In the TV show, they were machines built by aliens who had exterminated their reptilian creators.
Now, Ron Moore wants us to feel sorry for them, so he made up the stuff about the Cylons being created by the humans, and then rebelling against their exploiters - one of his updates I deeply dislike.


For those critiquing the script: From experience, I can tell you that the scripts tend to change wildly--even as an episode is being produced. What may be seen on the screen may not resemble your draft at all.
What about people who have already seen it on screen?
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=16490
http://www.cylon.org/bsg/bsg-reviews-01.html

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-02, 07:34 PM
I saw Battlestar Galactica night one and two.
(Perks for being in the Media.)
I'm not clear how many episodes there are, because I didn't get a clear answer from the studio nor the Web site.

I will keep the spoiler parts of the script to myself. However, as a fan of the original, I can see where people are going to be terribly upset with the direction it has gone.

Starbuck is a woman. So too is Boomer. I don't see why they needed to change this, other than to remove any hint of homoeroticism from the script. Apollo and Starbuck were kinda close in the original, but that is chalked up to the mere fact that two guys CAN be FRIENDS and not get it on with each other.

Ahem.

However, anyone who is a die hard fan of the original will also hate the fact that they are siding with scientific reality, for the most part, especially in the way the Vipers move in space and the weapons the Battlestars, Cylon maurauders and Vipers use: Bullets and Missles, not lasers and plasma blasts.

Night one is devoted to character development and the destruction of the 12 Colonies. Night two is the aftermath.
(No spoilers involved there. We already knew the plot synopsis from watching the original.)

I liked the humanity injected into the script. The character react quite accurately to the situation at hand. (They don't go gambling a day after their planet is destroyed.)

One spoiler I will spill: Don't expect much from the Cylons. They are a HUGE disappointment.
You'll see what I mean.

If anyone wants to know anything else, just let me know. I will spill.

CMartin
2003-Dec-03, 01:53 AM
The only one who seems to be having a real problem wiht it is Richard Hatch.

?
There are a lot of fans of the original series who don't like the idea of the re-imagined series. And by fan, I don't mean obsessives who dress like colonial warriors and hang out at conventions.

The thing I hate the most is that we never get to see the story end. Galactica 80 sucked, but why not show us a continuation of the original series?

I can't stand the gender bendings. He's Star BUCK for god's sake! Not Star DOE! If they wanted to have boy and girl main character team, why not include Sheba, from the Pegasus. She was kick ***! In fact, she was a better soldier than that Starbuck guy who seemed like he'd be more at home in McHale's Navy or MASH. IF it weren't for the near massacre of the Colonies, you know Starbuck would have been court martialed very early in Season 1 for his insubordinate attitude!

Boomer a chick? What?! I'm surprised they didn't VOYAGER the show and turn Addama into a girl as well.

The original series was great fun. Campy, with lots of action. Why does everything have to be so serious nowadays?

Invader Spleen
2003-Dec-03, 03:21 AM
at least the guy they got for Addama is a pretty good actor

Tuckerfan
2003-Dec-03, 04:04 AM
Now, Ron Moore wants us to feel sorry for them, so he made up the stuff about the Cylons being created by the humans, and then rebelling against their exploiters - one of his updates I deeply dislike.No, that's not it. Moore just figured that they could rip-off the Terminator franchise as well as the Mormon beliefs.

Based on the clips here (http://www.scifi.com/battlestar/trailers/full/), I'd say it's gonna perform an unnatural act with an ursine corpse.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-03, 04:46 PM
I think they added the human created cylon issue to "bring it to our time."
I thinkthe original was really a play on how much technology would invade society (and it has) and now it is more like how man's creations, (namely, clones for one) can be the real invader.

That's just my take on it though.

George
2003-Dec-03, 05:40 PM
I don't know ...

I've always thought Battlestar Galactica was a bit too much like a Recruitment Pamphlet for The Church of Scientology.....

If you Google with "battlestar galactica Mormon" you will find over 600 references. I do not know if the new version is as controversial.

Plat
2003-Dec-03, 06:13 PM
i will be watching this, when does it premier

informant
2003-Dec-04, 12:48 PM
However, anyone who is a die hard fan of the original will also hate the fact that they are siding with scientific reality, for the most part, especially in the way the Vipers move in space and the weapons the Battlestars, Cylon maurauders and Vipers use: Bullets and Missles, not lasers and plasma blasts.
Not necessarily. I think that, if Star Wars can get away with lasers and plasma blasts, then so can Galactica, but, other than that, I would have been glad to see a show that was scientifically accurate (as much as a space opera can ever be scientifically accurate). If only the story and the message weren't such crap...

Oh, and the reason why Ron Moore made the Cylons human creations is because he wants to turn the story into an allegory about exploitation (the old "humans=colonialists, robots=slaves" plotline). I have nothing against allegories about exploitation in general, but that was never what Battlestar Galactica was about.

Earthbound
2003-Dec-04, 08:49 PM
However, anyone who is a die hard fan of the original will also hate the fact that they are siding with scientific reality, for the most part, especially in the way the Vipers move in space and the weapons the Battlestars, Cylon maurauders and Vipers use: Bullets and Missles, not lasers and plasma blasts.
Not necessarily. I think that, if Star Wars can get away with lasers and plasma blasts, then so can Galactica, but, other than that, I would have been glad to see a show that was scientifically accurate (as much as a space opera can ever be scientifically accurate). If only the story and the message weren't such crap...

Oh, and the reason why Ron Moore made the Cylons human creations is because he wants to turn the story into an allegory about exploitation (the old "humans=colonialists, robots=slaves" plotline). I have nothing against allegories about exploitation in general, but that was never what Battlestar Galactica was about.

The whole thing looks like a PC-fest. The story idea was fine as it was and a remake with CGI, etc. would have made it better than the original. Just another case of somebody trying to "teach" or should I say "preach" their view point in the guise of entertainment. Its not that I'm necessarily against a message in a show, but I'm so tired of the PC stuff. Personally I think PC has gone way overboard to the point people are afraid to say what they really want to for fear of being labled intolerant. Totally ridiculous.

Madcat
2003-Dec-05, 04:33 AM
I agree rather strongly actually. I wonder though... if the Cylons try and kill all of humanity just how sympathetic are they really? :-?

dgruss23
2003-Dec-08, 05:02 PM
First episode is tonight at 9:00. Anybody going to watch it? You'd have to give up "Everybody Loves Raymond" and/or Monday night football. I'm not sure if I can do that for this. I always look forward to the 30 minutes of gut-busting laughter I get from Raymond.

Archer17
2003-Dec-08, 05:19 PM
I probably will just to see how it compares with the original version, but will not watch it "live" (MNF and all). Check Sci-Fi's listings, they are re-broadcasting both episodes a few times (11 PM and 1 AM-7 PM the following days) so you can have your Raymond/Monday Night Football and Cylon too :)

dgruss23
2003-Dec-08, 09:23 PM
Good idea Archer17! Maybe I'll try taping it - then I can zip past the commercials which hopefully will not be the best 20 minutes of that hour!

Madcat
2003-Dec-08, 10:08 PM
Hope? What's that? :)

I'll try and watch a bit of it but I have a midterm tomorrow and I need to learn a little chemistry.

dgruss23
2003-Dec-08, 10:38 PM
Hope? What's that? :)

I'll try and watch a bit of it but I have a midterm tomorrow and I need to learn a little chemistry.

[prepares self] Ah, you better manganese to find the time to study. If you don't potassium the midterm your grade will zinc. [/runs]

hewhocaves
2003-Dec-09, 04:28 AM
it's 11:17 EST...

it wasn't THAT bad... but then again, anything compared to the original has to be an improvement. I'll prolly tune in tomorrow to see how it goes. They still have the same problem, however, as they did too good a job of wiping out humanity to make whatever's left matter at all.

btw, with all the nukes flying around Ep. 1 it actually made me think... how many nukes would you need to hit in the same spot to liquify the crust enough to punch a hole right through to the mantle? (i fully realize it's a megaton issue as well as a number issue) It's just after looking at Caprica go up like an xmas tree (oldsters will immediately look back to 'The Day After' on NBC in 84' was it?) I wonder if there wasn't a more logial deployment than what we saw (after all the Cylons are robots, you'd think they would be thinking of stuff like that - go for the dino-extinction thingie.)

aside from that, it ws an eclectic mix of past and present. I particuarly liked the old BG theme song played early on in the episode - the theme was probably the only good thing to come of the orig. series. heh... but I can see where this would have completely irritated the purists to no end.

Oh well.. ep 2 tomorrow.

John

Hale_Bopp
2003-Dec-09, 05:05 AM
I cracked up early on with the "Form follows function" line. Apparentally, Frank Lloyd Wright designed Galactica :lol:

It was pretty predictable that the Galactica's lack of tech would be its saving grace. Will be interesting to see where they go with it.

I was a big fan of the original, but pre-teen at the time so I can't say I remember enough of it to spoil this version for me.

I am interested to see where they go with the story tomorrow night.

Rob

waynek
2003-Dec-09, 05:10 AM
I was a fan of the original show (and I mean that in the lower case sense, not the rabid fanboy sense) and I liked the new one. I was really worried that they would ruin it, but for me it had a good ballance of nostalgic nods and "re-imagining". I thought nearly all of the plot changes were improvements, and the science was decent. I hope they make it a series, maybe then there would be something on SciFi worth watching besides Stargate.

I was going to make a list of my likes and dislikes, but I'll spare you and just say when I saw the scene of the viper going through the launch tube, I was jazzed. Perhaps I'll post that list later on. 8)

ToSeek
2003-Dec-09, 05:31 AM
Good idea Archer17! Maybe I'll try taping it - then I can zip past the commercials which hopefully will not be the best 20 minutes of that hour!

If you tape it, keep in mind that the first episode is actually 2:09 long, and the second is 2:05.

Bug-Eyed Earl
2003-Dec-09, 05:47 AM
It made dogfights in space actually look difficult, due to the necessity of having to shoot gusts of gas to bank and stop.

Odinoneeye
2003-Dec-09, 06:28 AM
I really liked it. The best praise I can say is that I was shocked when a whole hour had passed, and then two.

The battle scenes were good. Vipers careening into each other and jets on all sides of the ships.

But that scene of Caprica being hit just got to me. I guess a little post 9/11 sentiment is still with me.

I got a little annoyed with the "documentary directing". I've seen it before and it really doesn't add anything to the visuals.

Archer17
2003-Dec-09, 07:29 AM
.. If you tape it, keep in mind that the first episode is actually 2:09 long, and the second is 2:05.Much appreciated info ToSeek since I am taping it. Thanks! 8)

bruggyt
2003-Dec-09, 09:54 AM
Battlestar Galactica was a cool show in 1978 I thought, cuz it had cool effects and the Cylons were cool as hell cuz they had that red light and the cool sounding voices. Another huge contributor to the coolness which cannot be ignored is the incredible music scoring from the original which is hardly matched with this disposable flop they conjured. The space ships and characters were cool cuz the series was action based. I watched the new series curiously tonight and was cracking up and bored. It seemed like a bunch of hugging and kissing. Too much drama. The fact that they tried to make it 'sexy' just made it that much more pathetic. Cmon, its on TV they can't show any skin. Show me some damn Cylons that look like robots and ****! God I can't believe they even called it the same name. What a dissapointment. Making Starbuck a girl is like making Chrissy from Three's company a man. The idea of the series is to appeal to little boys isn't it? If I were 8 again I would think that show was dumb as hell. Making the best viper pilot a woman is just boring and annoying. Starbuck was the coolest character on the show and part of this is due to the fact that he got tons of chix.

HAVOC451
2003-Dec-09, 11:02 AM
I enjoyed it.
One point of really bad science that caught my eye: Baltar takes cover from the shockwave of a 50 megaton nuke by hiding behind his Cylon girlfriend. Sturdy stuff those cylon girlies.

Captain Kidd
2003-Dec-09, 01:31 PM
It was OK, I’ll watch again tonight to see how it wraps up. Still iffy on if I’d like to see it as a series. The new Galatica looks good, the spirit of the original design is there, just wished they’d show it a bit better to get a good view of it. As for the ‘documentary’ camera angles and movements, I kinda liked it. However, I thought I detected a trend to reuse footage of the Cylon raiders.

Hmm, in the spirit of this site, I’ll list some things that caught my attention.

Good
I liked how they used thrusters to maneuver in space, along with not being stuck in a 2D orientation. When the first squadron of Vipers broke up into wingmen, I noticed that they didn’t all keep the same coordinate system; each had a different ‘up’.
I also liked how they did take advantage of space by flipping instead of banking to fire behind themselves.
Venting compartments to space to contain the fire. Nice touch, they even mentioned if the crew remember their training and had suits on, some could survive. However, they showed, and we heard what sounded like fans powering up to exhaust the air. Just opening ports to space shoulda done it, but maybe it was a system for more rapid venting of further in compartments.
Apollo mentioned that he didn’t detect a cockpit on the raiders. This makes sense, and from the red sweeping thingy (what is that called) I’d say the raiders aren’t piloted by Cyons but are Cylons built into ships. Which makes far more sense.

Bad
They kept their main engines on while apparently maintaining steady flight speed.
Boomer, when she killed their power said something about they should have enough inertia to reach Capria’s atmosphere. Maybe she meant in a reasonable time, but I think it was a goof.

Bad but Acceptable
They had sounds in space, but I noticed it was muted like it was far away or having trouble reaching you. So somebody decided that while they didn’t want to do no sound, they also didn’t want to do the Star Trek/Star Wars/Almost Any Space Show or Movie vibrate your bones with engine rumble. A nice middle ground I thought.

Not Sure
The vipers have turbines, however, when the hanger crew was trying to get Starbuck into space, I noticed that the blades appeared to be closed up hinting that they seal while in space, to protect the innards from debris, and maybe open for atmospheric use.

Interesting
I swore I saw a Firefly class freighter landing in Capria City during the opening sequence right before they introduce the Minister of Education (or was it Secretary?). Anybody watching the repeat or have it on tape and are Firefly fans, check out the upper left portion of the screen during one of the near ground level shots showing the cityscape.

Annoying
Just how short ranged is their radar? Granted the Cylons were jamming but still…
I wished they showed more of the attack in space. 30 Battlestars bite it in the opening sequence and we see none of it. As a matter of fact, all we really see are four raiders in two groups of two. I would have loved to have seen the Battlestars lined up ala Battleship Row trying to power up while fighting the ‘malfunctions’ and the Cylons pumping missile after missile into their ranks. But hanging with the Galatica and getting the iffy ‘what’s going on?’ updates with them was good too.
Hey, I know! Let’s hire a supermodel to play a part; nobody’s ever though of that.
Just how big are the 12 colonies? (sp?) Is it a single solar system or 12 or somewhere between? That’s what annoyed me about the original and they did it here too.

Really Annoying
Commander Adama (Edward James Olmos) annoying tendency [dramatic pause] to pause dramatically at really weird [dramatic pause] times, started to get to me. It made no sense; instead of dramatic pauses it gave me the sense of him trying to remember his line.

Creepy
Mushroom clouds everywhere, and the orbital shots of nukes going off. Good touches I thought. Esp. from ground-level while Boomer and Whats-his-face were trying to repair the Raptor.

Enough for now, I'm at work so gotta pretend to do some. ;)

AKONI
2003-Dec-09, 05:03 PM
Thank God it wasn't campy. I enjoyed it. It wasn't simply a shoot 'em up action fest. You can tell they wanted to build a real story that wasn't directed at eleven year olds. The sneak attack worked well, and they established how they were able to get through because they had all of the defense codes.

As for sound in space. I think we need to be more forgiving about this. Audiences in general are not just those interested in astronomy, and the sound adds to the effect of any explosion. I did though find it interesting they muffled the sound.

The thrusters were cool. I liked the fact that they showed you couldn't necessarily turn in space the way you could on Earth.

The tension between the new President and the Commander was excellent. Kind of made me think of Johnson's screw-ups during the Vietnam War.

I also found it interesting that the Cylons fought with nuclear
missles.

Matt Butts
2003-Dec-09, 08:04 PM
I found the use of missiles interesting too. In fact, I don't recall seeing one laser or other type of "ray gun" used at all, which was a very refreshing change.

I also liked the scene where they have to vent the ship to extinguish the fire, and you see bodies getting blown out into space. It added a nicely human element to the shot, not just "let's show space ships blowing up." =D> You should see a body flying through the debris when a viper gets blown up, too, or would that be a little too grisly?

All in all, I liked it. It was a lot better than what Tim Burton did to Planet of the Apes.

Rich
2003-Dec-09, 08:04 PM
I thought it was a smart/neat idea to force a low-tech approach to fighting the Cylons. Being thinking machines it makes a lot of sense that they could fairly easily take over computers and rewrite software. Networked defense systems would be a real liability in that case... and I thought that whole concept was well done. Of course, it was kind of telegraphed that Adama's insitence on not installing networked computers on Galatica would turn out to be pivotal.

I also like changing Baltar to a somewhat more sympathetic dupe. He's still clearly a dupe for the Cylons, but at least it wasn't intentional in this version, I almost feel sorry for him. (His motives always seemed farfetched to me in the original, how could he not know once the job was done he'd be just as dead as the rest of humanity?)

There were only two things that really bothered me: the whole Starbuck thing, and the removal of all the key black characters. I even mostly got past the Starbuck thing, except the writer/director/producers' stupid insistance that it was to make it more balanced "since there were no female warriors in the original..." :( Uh, yeah there were... lots. It took a couple episodes, but they came up with a good reason to train female pilots and they ultimately did very well in the original. Anyway... I was really bothered at the lack of central black characters. I'm not of African descent myself, nor do I normally go all squishy on race issues in media, but come on Boomer and Lt Col Ty were pretty cool central characters in the original. The inclusiveness of black characters as not just pilots and warriors but also as central leaders and authority figures was a pretty good thing in the original. Yet, there are no central black characters at all. Doesn't break the show, but I do find it interesting from a sociological and historical perspective, and it did bother me... I always liked Ty and Boomer.

Over all, I thought it was pretty well done. We'll see how well it holds up in the second half tonight.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-09, 08:27 PM
The second half has a lot more action in it, with some really stunning visuals hinted at in the previously released "rough cut" press copy.
However, this version has some differences from the rough cut I saw. They cut out a few things and added others.

I am glad that they cut out what they did — to spare us all the agony of watching the cylon girlie giving the Colonial Peace Officer in the initial scene a hand — and I don't mean applause. It was just creepy simply due to the radically divergent appearance of the two. Sort of like watching a stripper paw a priest.
The scene worked better without it.

I also recall the Number Six/Baltar sex scene being a tad lewder in the rough cut. I was making a snack at the time this scene aired ... did she strip off her bra in this one? She did in the rough cut. Actually, she turns to the side at one point and nothing is left to the imagination. I wondered then how SciFi was going to attempt to air that. I'm assuming they cut it too.

Also:
The detonation and subsequent blast which destroys Baltar's house was superinflated in the final cut. In the rough cut it looked much more believeable. Basically, all that happened was the windows were blown inwards by the distant blast's shockwave. In the final cut it looked as if the blast happened right outside the window or something.

I mention this only because these were issues raised by viewers of the rough cut, expressed on various industry Web sites. I wonder if they actually listened to the concerns.

Hmm.

bruggyt
2003-Dec-09, 08:42 PM
I see most of the responses center around the reality of the special effects and the way the ships move etc. I think the original was pretty cheezy in that regard cuz everyone knows there is no sound in space. The biggest thing lacking in this, and I don't know how much people can argue this, is the music score. The original music scoring in the first series was very elaborate and well done. I mean it was as well done as Star Wars. Music is an extremely important factor in creating an over all mood for the battle and drama scenes. I felt that this series lacks the music score of the original. I also agree with the comment about Starbuck. There were plenty of female viper pilots in the original, no need to search for political correctness in this. Also did they have to make Baltar a pretty boy?? Another more thing, you would think that the vipers would have something more effective than machine guns.. I thought the original Base Stars were far more sinister. The overall mood ushered in by the site of a Base star combined with the ominous music was EXTREMELY effective in the original. I just think there is too much huggin and kissin, not enough Cylons with the red light!! Of course think of how much it would cost to make cool cylons now! ALOT! How can you deny those oldschool cylon voices? God its like they made it a soap opera--too much luvy duvy. Glen Larsen was the mastermind behind the original, how can you remake a series and not include him. I am 33 so I was alive during the heyday of BG and it wasn't really any cheezier than Star Wars.

daver
2003-Dec-09, 09:27 PM
II also agree with the comment about Starbuck. There were plenty of female viper pilots in the original, no need to search for political correctness in this.

Actually, the fighter team on the original Battlestar was all male; later some women were allowed to be pilots (i don't remember enough of the show to remember why--maybe the men were all out on another mission). Apollo's sister had to lurk around the command deck--she would have been much better as a pilot. She didn't last too long (too bad, I liked her better than the Socialator they eventually teamed Starbuck up with).


... so I was alive during the heyday of BG and it wasn't really any cheezier than Star Wars.
Umm, it was inspired by Star Wars--i thought it was a lot cheesier. They filmed as many action scenes as they could for the pilot (theatrical release in Europe), and reused them ad nauseum. Even with their excessive usage of stock footage, they couldn't quite finish an episode a week, so towards the end of the season the series kept getting postponed. At the time i thought the special effects were roughly on par with those of the old UFO series--good enough for TV, but nothing to write home about.

Rich
2003-Dec-09, 10:39 PM
II also agree with the comment about Starbuck. There were plenty of female viper pilots in the original, no need to search for political correctness in this.

Actually, the fighter team on the original Battlestar was all male; later some women were allowed to be pilots (i don't remember enough of the show to remember why--maybe the men were all out on another mission). Apollo's sister had to lurk around the command deck--she would have been much better as a pilot. She didn't last too long (too bad, I liked her better than the Socialator they eventually teamed Starbuck up with).

No, the Galatica's fighter pilots were all male, some shuttle pilots were always female. Later they get a bunch of pilots from Lloyd Bridge's battlestar when he went off on his suicide run, one of those viper pilots was his daughter. Then when most of the male warriors got sick they had to train the shuttle pilots and other female volunteers to fly vipers, and those pilots continued to fly through the series. So the rationale for making Starbuck a woman is vapid at best. When I actually watched it, I wasn't bothered as much by it... now it's the stupid rationale for it that I take issue with.

Starbuck was always torn between Apollo's sister and the nurse. That was one of the things I always liked that never got resolved... who will he choose: the blond or the brunette? LOL!

daver
2003-Dec-09, 11:20 PM
Starbuck was always torn between Apollo's sister and the nurse. That was one of the things I always liked that never got resolved... who will he choose: the blond or the brunette? LOL!
Funny how they changed her from a Socialator to a Nurse. I guess they didn't have much call for Socialators on the Galactica.

I liked the scene where Apollo's sister (i can't remember her name--Athena, maybe?) caught Starbuck and Cassiopeia in some engineering tube and decided it was time to activate the self-cleaning cycle.

Unfortunately, they wrote out the sister; she more or less faded away about halfway through the first season.

The computer displays were Tektronics, weren't they?

AKONI
2003-Dec-09, 11:21 PM
Actually, she turns to the side at one point and nothing is left to the imagination. I wondered then how SciFi was going to attempt to air that. I'm assuming they cut it too.

I had to answer the phone during that part so I'm not sure if they cut it, but I do know most shows can get away with a lot as long as they don't show nipple (think "T-Pol" from Enterprise).



I am 33 so I was alive during the heyday of BG and it wasn't really any cheezier than Star Wars.

Yes, but you were much yonger then when you were watching it. I tried to sit through an episode of the original series the SciFi channel was airing and at my current age I couldn't stomach it. If you get an opertunity to watch it now do so and you can decide for yourself whether or not your opinion has changed with age.


I'm looking forward to Part II tonight.

Any idea how long of a mini-series this is going to be?

Starbuck
2003-Dec-09, 11:33 PM
He seemed to have definitively paired of with Cassie as of "The Hand of God", the final original episode. It helped that Maren Jensen, the girl who played Apollo's sister, had been written of the show at that point.

I really liked the first part of the mini-series. Grim and harsh, but with a regal flair that always occupanies space opera. Very minimalist, too (no all-out space battles, very little of the holocaust shown). Shows what a clever producer can do with a TV budget. And yes, that was Serenity over Caprica (which looks a lot like Persephone), it's the same effects house what did Firefly, so CGI in-jokes are bound to occur.

That having been said, this was NOT Battlestar Galactica. It was some unrelated (but high-quality) space show featuring a smattering of proper nouns from the former show.

daver
2003-Dec-10, 12:25 AM
And yes, that was Serenity over Caprica (which looks a lot like Persephone), it's the same effects house what did Firefly, so CGI in-jokes are bound to occur.

The Ag-ships from the original Battlestar were lifted from Silent Running, so importing ships from other shows seems to be in the spirit of the original.

daver
2003-Dec-10, 12:27 AM
Hmm. One of the context-related ads at the bottom of the page was to help brain-tumor patients. I wonder what it was about this thread that made the content filter think that brain tumors were appropriate.

bruggyt
2003-Dec-10, 01:09 AM
I agree, when I watch it now I cringe at some of the things. But the same is true of Star Wars for me. I think nobody can deny the film score for the original as I stated before. Music is HUGE in creating tension, excitement, horror, etc. I liked the original Baltar and the original Cylons. I thought Apollo's wife Sheba was killed by a cylon in the first couple shows cuz she was a warrior on a mission with them. I could be wrong. I think not including Glen Larsen or Richard Hatch, both of whom are passionately dedicated to the original series was kind of bad for the whole picture. I believe if they had been more involved in it's creation it would have had more substance and quality, but again without that great music scoring from the original series it still would be lacking.

Zamise
2003-Dec-10, 09:01 AM
watched as much as I could. Don't know how much bad astronomy there was in it, couldn't watch it all as I was so board with it.

The rendered space scenes I seen seemed a slight improvement from most other shows and movies. The spaceship fly-bys where fairly quiet, but had enough noise and sound which was fitting. Just enough for about the only entertainment value to the show. By the way didn't the last star fighter have exaust venting from the ships to be more phyisically acurate, nothing new? I felt the same watching the new Star Wars movies, great sounds, rest was poo. The space scenes, where not bad in my opinion. The rest however, made me want to fall asleep. I compare the rendered scenes look and feel of this show, in my mind very closely to the Wing Commander PC game series which I thought was great. I'd of rather been playing WC2 then watch this show. I was disappointed for soooo much hype.

Some of my bigest gripes didn't have much to do with bad astronomy.

The biggest, in the future, even documentary style shoots, steady cams are a must. The intesity of a camera shake to over dramatise acts that where perfomed in the calmest of environments compare closely to law & order court room scenes. If you get motion sickness, which I don't, yet I still got very agrivated watching some ofplot revealing discussions between characters. I think I know now what motion sickness might feel like to those that have it.

Other than that, I had a problem with some of their radio comunications beeing distorded. In the future, even now, comunications are not that poor. However, it does make for nice sound effects.

Finally, a spaceship with no networked computer systems? Thats just messed up! I understand the point the show is trying to make by not haveing this supposedly unsecure technkowledgy, but still, important systems can still be isolated away from the network. It cuts down on foot trafic for such simple things as even sending a video mail. Video mail would have to be hand delivered, I hope they have a lot of spare CDRWs.

In conclusion, it reminded me of what a sci-fi pilot episode usually is; crap from which to grow. It has a lot of potential; loose the acting, concentrate more on the action. I've seen better soap opera acting on daytime television. Obviously its a big ship and many coridors and such, and I could care less, they should split those scenes up instead of following characters around. It looked cheap, and cheapness can be balanced with intelect which was hard to find, or compensated with sensuality which was there but not enough to do it for me.

Zamise

Swift
2003-Dec-10, 02:46 PM
Actually, I overall liked it, and yes, I am old enough that I watched the original.

But they brought back the same idea from the first series, that there is a 13th colony called Earth. They dismissed it as a legend that Adamas used just for morale. But we all know that Earth isn't just a legend (at least that was what I was taught :lol: ). From a bad science/astronomy point of view, this is a silly idea. It implies that Earth and the 12 colonies were settled by humans from somewhere else (ancient astronaunt nonsense) and that we didn't evolve here.

The only way around that would be that the 12 colonies were actually settled by Earthlings. And unless we developed FTL when I wasn't looking, that would mean that the whole series takes place in the far future. That might actually be a neat idea, after the three more mini-series the Gallactica gets to Earth, but its Earth of 2573 AD. From a network executive standpoint that won't fly, they would want them arriving on present day Earth.

informant
2003-Dec-10, 03:39 PM
II also agree with the comment about Starbuck. There were plenty of female viper pilots in the original, no need to search for political correctness in this.

Actually, the fighter team on the original Battlestar was all male; later some women were allowed to be pilots (i don't remember enough of the show to remember why--maybe the men were all out on another mission). Apollo's sister had to lurk around the command deck--she would have been much better as a pilot. She didn't last too long (too bad, I liked her better than the Socialator they eventually teamed Starbuck up with).
Athena was going to be a central warrior character, initially. Unfortunately, they found that Maren Jensen couldn't act, so she had to be left in the bridge for the most part. But later on in the series there was one strong female warrior character that made up for that, the lieutenant Sheba.
Even though she was not a warrior, Cassiopea was another central female character in the cast.
The episode Lost Planet of the Gods did use the plot device of female cadets having to replace male warriors in an emergency, but from then on it was clear that there was nothing extraordinary about women being warriors.


No, the Galatica's fighter pilots were all male, some shuttle pilots were always female. Later they get a bunch of pilots from Lloyd Bridge's battlestar when he went off on his suicide run, one of those viper pilots was his daughter. Then when most of the male warriors got sick they had to train the shuttle pilots and other female volunteers to fly vipers, and those pilots continued to fly through the series.
Apart from Sheba, the cadet Brie - who was also black - shows up in more than one episode. So I don't think it can be said that all pilots were male.


I thought Apollo's wife Sheba was killed by a cylon in the first couple shows cuz she was a warrior on a mission with them. I could be wrong.
Apollo's wife Serina - another strong female character in the original - was killed by Cylons in the episode Lost Planet of the Gods. Sheba showed up later.




And yes, that was Serenity over Caprica (which looks a lot like Persephone), it's the same effects house what did Firefly, so CGI in-jokes are bound to occur.

The Ag-ships from the original Battlestar were lifted from Silent Running, so importing ships from other shows seems to be in the spirit of the original.
But SciFi's miniseries is above that... Right? ;)

Captain Kidd
2003-Dec-10, 04:52 PM
And yes, that was Serenity over Caprica (which looks a lot like Persephone), it's the same effects house what did Firefly, so CGI in-jokes are bound to occur.

The Ag-ships from the original Battlestar were lifted from Silent Running, so importing ships from other shows seems to be in the spirit of the original.
But SciFi's miniseries is above that... Right? ;)

I thought it was pretty cool to see her flying on TV again. Even if in the wrong 'universe.' :)
Speaking off Firefly: The Complete Series shipped yesterday, actually my copy showed up on tracking on the 8th. :D
Firefly is currently 12th in DVD sales according to Amazon. Man I hope somebody at Fox notices that... :x

tracer
2003-Dec-10, 05:08 PM
The whole thing looks like a PC-fest. The story idea was fine as it was and a remake with CGI, etc. would have made it better than the original. Just another case of somebody trying to "teach" or should I say "preach" their view point in the guise of entertainment.
And of course, Glen Larson's use of the original Battlestar Galactica as a springboard for his Mormonism wasn't preachy at all. :roll:

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-10, 05:10 PM
Two things:

Glen Larson was one of the producers of this miniseries. His name appears in the credits in the beginning.

Secondly, the mythos of the BSG series from the get go is that Kobol is the origin of humanity and from that planet arose 13 Colonies. 12 Colonies inhabited solar systems around 3 stars in close proximity and a rumored 13th settled in another location; in a different part of the galaxy, on a planet they called Earth.
(This is all fiction, you see, they are allowed to say whatever they want.)

This is why all the major players in Earth mythology is represented in the BSG mythos. Their helmets looked like Egyptian headwear. Their written language was very hieroglyphic in nature. They embraced pyramids in architecture. One of the major Cylon ministers was named Lucifer.
Etc.

The original series was created at a time when Sitchin's book was fresh and a best seller and Chariots of the Gods was on many coffee tables. The furvour over aliens and alien abductions was at an all time high and people were hungry for it.
We have seen a resurgence of this now with the Millennium, however, instead of aliens we are back to angels.
Some will say they are one in the same.
Either makes for great fiction, sci-fi or otherwise. Look at HBO's Angels in America series now playing to see how angels are making a strong comeback, even years after the advent of Touched by an Angel.
People like to see things like that. It comforts them.
To me, it just makes for some great special effects.

The whole Earth tangent will probably be played out — if it is picked up as series — like it was in the original. Humans are from Kobol, but since they escaped Kobol to hide from the Cylons — which in the original series were an ancient enemy's weapon, (created by a reptilian race since then gone extinct) — humans on Earth forgot their origins and have no idea that humans exist elsewhere or that they aren't from here at all themselves.

Since this series screwed up the Cylon origin thing, I'm not sure how they'll explain why Earth lost contact with the other Colonies of Kobol.

<edit: A variant of the leaving Kobol story is that they left Kobol to escape an ecological disaster and that 12 Colonies settled in close proximity in one (or three systems) — depending on the source — and Earth lost contact regardless. There is a plethora of BSG sites each telling a slightly different tale. Go figure.>

WHarris
2003-Dec-10, 06:09 PM
I thought Apollo's wife Sheba was killed by a cylon in the first couple shows cuz she was a warrior on a mission with them. I could be wrong.

His wife's name was Serena, although he did hook up with Sheba later in the series.

tofu
2003-Dec-10, 10:18 PM
I have three complaints. First, there was absolutely no sense of location. I have no idea where the Galactica was during any of this. It was just about to be decommissioned so you'd think it'd be in orbit somewhere. How else was it supposed to serve as a museum? Instead, it seemed to just be out flying around somewhere. I have no idea where the people who attended the decommissioning were coming from and where they were returning to. It seemed to me that the fact they were flying in a ship at all was just a plot device. I heard them mention the names of the colonies that were being attacked, but I have no concept of where they are or how they are distributed. Did the Cylon attack take place across multiple star systems? I suppose so but I couldn't tell. It would have been so easy for the Galactica's XO to brief the CPT on the attack by pointing to a star chart. "We are here, the main cylon force appears to be here." I guess they didn't think of that though.

Secondly, I think they missed an excellent opportunity for some eye candy by failing to show any of the other battlestars fight and be destroyed. In fact, if I'm not mistaken. They never showed the other battlestars at all. Actually, they didn't show a really clear picture of the exterior of the Galactica either. Did they? And the one time they showed a Cylon capital ship it was difficult to tell what I was seeing. This is a real contrast to a show like Babylon 5 that had some beautiful capital ships and wasn't afraid to show them off. They could have had a very powerful scene if they'd done something like, had a newer battlestar pull along side Galactica for the decommissioning ceremony. Then when the attack began they could have played up the fact that Galactica didn't have much in the way of armament but she could hang with the other battlestar to take some of the heat off. Then of course, the newer ship would be destroyed and Galactica would survive. Overall, I was very disappointed with the battle scenes.

Finally, I was a little put off by Star Buck. I did four years in the Army and I grew up in a navy town, actually Pensacola Florida which is full of (god help us) Naval Aviators, and I've never met anyone as cocky as her. I think her character is a cliche. I'm willing to reserve judgment for a little while though.

Swift
2003-Dec-10, 10:45 PM
Secondly, the mythos of the BSG series from the get go is that Kobol is the origin of humanity and from that planet arose 13 Colonies. 12 Colonies inhabited solar systems around 3 stars in close proximity and a rumored 13th settled in another location; in a different part of the galaxy, on a planet they called Earth.
Thanks Val Trottan, I was a little confused by the geography of the 12 Colonies, since some of the ships between colonies had FTL and some didn't. They fact that some are in the same system kind of explains it.

Tuckerfan
2003-Dec-11, 12:06 AM
We have seen a resurgence of this now with the Millennium, however, instead of aliens we are back to angels.
Some will say they are one in the same.
Either makes for great fiction, sci-fi or otherwise. Look at HBO's Angels in America series now playing to see how angels are making a strong comeback, even years after the advent of Touched by an Angel.Whoa, pal! Hold up there just a minute. Angels in America predates "Fondled by an Angel" by a good number of years, and really has nothing to do with angels. It's based on the successful Broadway play that ran in the late 1980s, early 1990s. It has more to do with the AIDS epidemic, America's reaction to it and the infamous lawyer Roy Cohn, than it does angels.

I've not seen the play or the miniseries (the play was some seven hours long, IIRC), however in none of the reviews or interviews with the various cast members (the staged version had a different cast) has much talk been made about the angels which are, presumably, in the play. So, I think that it's safe to say that the angels are merely plot devices used to aid in story telling, and not some kind of gushy center-piece like they are in the excretable "Felt Up by an Angel."

tracer
2003-Dec-11, 12:29 AM
[Apollo's] wife's name was Serena,
Ah ah ah, he and Serena didn't actually get married, they got sealed. (Which is like being married, except you have to have to measure time in centons and money in cubits.)

dgruss23
2003-Dec-11, 02:01 AM
I really don't know what to think about the Battlestar Galactica mini-series. I enjoyed it for the most part. I didn't think it was great. I didn't think it was bad. I think its greatest failing is that it evoked no emotion - even though they tried. Who are these characters and why should I care what happens to them? Even Adama's speech at the end about finding Earth - pretty uninspiring.

Yet I liked it. I've been pondering this contradiction and the only thing I can come up with is that the story (old version and new) is a great concept. Its one of those stories where you don't need them to hold your hand through it. You can imagine for yourself and take the story where you think it should go.

Having some of the cylons be "human" was an interesting change. There's a certain angle of cylon psychology that they could've/could play up if they were smart. Why did the cylons make some of themselves look like humans? Obviously in the story it was a military strategy, but you can envision the children (cylons) angry with their parents and subconciously seeking to become/replace their parents even as they destroy them.

I also thought it was interesting that the cylons said at the end that they must find the escaped colonists and destroy them or they might return some day - exactly as the cylons themselves have done. Why do they have such fear? Another psychological angle to play up.

Well, I don't believe from what I saw in this miniseries, that they have enough of a clue to develop this thing into its potential. The concept could be weaved into one of the greatest stories ever told with a little bit of imagination. Too late for this attempt - maybe in another 25 years.

Odinoneeye
2003-Dec-11, 05:52 AM
I'll have to say I was more disappointed in the second part than the first. It didn't grip me like the first part did.

The best character was Baltar. Contrary to what some others have commented on, this version is a vast improvement to the original. He made a huge mistake, due to a very human failing and caused the near destruction of the human race. Now, he's doing his best to make up for it, while not letting anyone know he did it.

waynek
2003-Dec-11, 06:06 AM
First, there was absolutely no sense of location. I have no idea where the Galactica was during any of this. It was just about to be decommissioned so you'd think it'd be in orbit somewhere. How else was it supposed to serve as a museum? Instead, it seemed to just be out flying around somewhere.

I agree in general, but I'll insert a few observations. The young guy (Billy?) mentions on the transport a message from Galactica back home would take 30 minutes, so that's what, about 4+ AU away (assuming he's talking light-time. The military at least also seem to have FTL communication, so this statement is odd). Interplanetary distances, then, but in the same system. Assuming all the colonies are in the same system (hinted but not stated, they only talk about "the sun") perhaps it is stationed between colonies for more equal access.


I have no idea where the people who attended the decommissioning were coming from and where they were returning to.

It seemed pretty clear to me it was Caprica, which I think is the name of an entire planet.


I heard them mention the names of the colonies that were being attacked, but I have no concept of where they are or how they are distributed. Did the Cylon attack take place across multiple star systems? I suppose so but I couldn't tell.

This really bothered me to, but my overall impression is that there are 12 separate inhabited planets in a single stellar system. Unlikely, but it's not obvious to me that it would be impossible. Would 12 "Earth's" spaced every 30 degrees along the same orbit be stable?

Just thinking about it, if one planet lost some energy, it would fall to a lower orbit and go a bit faster around. It would close on it's nearest neighbor and their mutual attraction would speed it up and slow the neighbor down. This would raise the original planets orbit and the second would repeat this process with the next until the energy loss worked it's way around and a new equalibrium was reached. Not sure if it'd really work, though, anyone up for a 13 body problem?

As for the show, though, I have another theory. I ran across the original script while hunting around for more details, and in it the 12 colonies are all on a single planet called Kobol. Aparently, they forgot to even watch the original before writing the first draft. At least they didn't screw up that bad. Anyway, the final version probably reflects their best effort to correct this problem late in the game when they couldn't make drastic changes, so it ends up not properly explained.


They could have had a very powerful scene if they'd done something like, had a newer battlestar pull along side Galactica for the decommissioning ceremony.

That would have been great, but I sort-of see why they didn't show the other battles. First, it would have been very one-sided without much action on the colonial side. Second, they wanted us to have the same feeling of being out of the action as the Galactica crew had. Third, it would have been very expensive.


Finally, I was a little put off by Star Buck.

Before I watched it, I thought I would have a problem with Starbuck being a girl. After, I feel like they tried too hard to make a girl act like Starbuck. I just didn't buy the whole cigar smoking Starbuck routine. I think it would have been better to make the character more different than to try to have a female Dirk Benedict.

dgruss23
2003-Dec-11, 11:15 AM
I'll have to say I was more disappointed in the second part than the first. It didn't grip me like the first part did.

The best character was Baltar. Contrary to what some others have commented on, this version is a vast improvement to the original. He made a huge mistake, due to a very human failing and caused the near destruction of the human race. Now, he's doing his best to make up for it, while not letting anyone know he did it.

I agree. He was the only character in the show that was convincing in his role - that actually seemed to feel the part.

TheGalaxyTrio
2003-Dec-11, 03:50 PM
This makes sense, and from the red sweeping thingy (what is that called) I’d say the raiders aren’t piloted by Cyons but are Cylons built into ships. Which makes far more sense.

This was my favorite thing in the show. The Cylons are evolving themselves to fill niches! :-) Wonderful! It actually fits in with their clearly aggressive (and highly successful) efforts to look more like their original creators (humans).

If it goes to a regular series, they could have enormous fun with highly specialized Cylons adapted to specific tasks and functions.


Just how short ranged is their radar? Granted the Cylons were jamming but still…

There is no still. They were jamming. Period.


I wished they showed more of the attack in space.

Actually, I liked how they stayed focused on the characters. I've seen a billion special effect shots by this point in my life in movies and video games. Gimme story and characters.


Hey, I know! Let’s hire a supermodel to play a part; nobody’s ever though of that.

Now that I've seen the show, she makes perfect sense. Her operation was to seduce someone in a position of power and get access to the security systems of the Colonies. Of course she'd be a knockout bombshell.


Just how big are the 12 colonies? (sp?) Is it a single solar system or 12 or somewhere between? That’s what annoyed me about the original and they did it here too.

Yeah, that was the one really big flub, which is strange because Moore has been at this for a while. He should have known better. DS9 got it right for the most part.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-11, 03:52 PM
Uh, Tuckerfan ...

How can you tell me that I am wrong about Angels in America ... or rather HBO's Angels in America, if you say you haven't even seen it?
The inward imaginings and hallucinations that the characters have in their personal dealings with their stresses are being totally VISUALLY realized in this rework of the play.
Actual angels are blasting through ceilings and the Hebrew Book of Life is crashing through floors in this thing.

Please at least see the thing before you tell me what it's about.

Most bet that many people watching this series are watching only because angels are flitting about in it. They probably couldn't care less about the underlying issues. I even heard one person here at my job say that they watched it because they thought it was about angels, but when they saw it was "part of the gay agenda" they switched it off.

Enlightenment is abound, eh?

On the series BSG:

I agree that some backstory wouyld have been a good addition. Not everyone who watched was as much of a geek as myself to have known the backstory from the get go.
To enlighten (my word for the day I guess) those who don't know....

Kobol is a planet in another star system all together. Humans from that planet inhabit planets in four star systems. Three systems are close to one another. One is not. In all 13 colonies of humans are established, the "12 Colonies of Kobol" which are the (planets) Caprica, Sagitarian, Airolon (Ariana in the original), Tauron, etc... (If someone is interested, I can list all of them) ... and the 13th: Earth.

In the original cannon, the Cylons were a machine race built by an unnamed reptilian race as a weapon against a different species which inhabited a world close to the Colonies of Kobol. They (Cylons) weren't enemies to the humans until the humans poked their noses into that conflict to rid that alien species of the Cylon threat. This sparked the 1,000 year Cylon War. Baltar was a ship commander, like Adama, and was also in the Council of Twelve, one of the Colonies ruling bodies. He made a deal with the Cylons to end the war to inflate his own standings, but was double-crossed by the Cylons when they revealed their part of the peace plan was to create peace by destroying humanity.
This is where the original series begins.

We all know what they did with this cannon in this new series.

informant
2003-Dec-11, 04:19 PM
Because I'm a BSG geek too, I absolutely must nitpick... :D


In the original cannon, the Cylons were a machine race built by an unnamed reptilian race as a weapon against a different species which inhabited a world close to the Colonies of Kobol. They (Cylons) weren't enemies to the humans until the humans poked their noses into that conflict to rid that alien species of the Cylon threat.
You are thinking of the Hasaris. However, I don't think it was ever said that the Cylons had built machines to fight the Hasaris, only that the war with the humans had started when the Colonials helped the Hasaris against the Cylons.


This sparked the 1,000 year Cylon War. Baltar was a ship commander, like Adama, and was also in the Council of Twelve, one of the Colonies ruling bodies.
There is no definite indication that Baltar was anything but a civilian.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-11, 05:45 PM
War of the Geeks, Part One....

(Heh)

1. The Cylons are the machine weapons of the unnamed reptilian race. Ironically, the race that created the Cylons as a weapon themselves went extinct, and were not even invloved in the conflict at all.

2. Baltar. I submit the following from the shows which aired...

Baltar is refered to as "Commander" by the Cylons, as well as "Count" by everyone else.

In "Lost Planet of the Gods", Baltar comments that he was "trapped between the Atlantia and my own Battlestar".

Baltar also identifies himself as a member of the Council to Adama in that episode as well.
"You're forgetting, Adama, that I, too, wore the badge of the Council of the Twelve."

Rich
2003-Dec-11, 07:05 PM
I feel so much better not being the only original BSG geek here. :lol:

Val's got it right on Baltar, although I thought he was trying to be deceiptful in the original mini-series. He knew the Cylons were going to attack and hoped to be placed in a position of power. He did not know they planned on wiping out humanity altogether.

As previously stated, I too like this Baltar better. And except for the very beginning he was the most believable character. I especially liked all his psycho-babble trying to absolve himself of fault or blame for: cheating, lying, helping his Cylon girlfriend "get an edge on defense contracts", (spoiler) setting up the reporter as a Cylon... who ironically was one, etc. Also liked his Cylon mistress' tearing apart his psycho-babble excuse making. Now who thinks that he really is receiving messages from her and who thinks he's just being driven insane by guilt? That could be an interesting future angle. And the quote of the movie for me, "You have such an interesting mind Giaus, we really should download a scan of it." Or something to that affect, LOL, his obvious discomfort at the backhanded compliment was great!

Any bets for who else they will make a Cylon infiltrator in the future? (Spoilers) We know Boomer may be one now, but I'm betting on the new President's aide... and for a really ironic twist his little girlfriend from the command deck too! They'll will both turn out to be bad guys if they continue this... mark my words.

informant
2003-Dec-11, 07:11 PM
Regarding the creators of the Cylons, I quote from John Larocque’s kobol.com (http://www.kobol.com/archives/BG-FAQ.html#E7) website:


On Carillon in the premiere, Apollo explained the Cylons to Boxey:

They're not like us. They're machines created by living creatures a long, long time ago... a race of reptiles called Cylons. After a while the Cylons discovered humans were the most practical form of creature in this system. So they copied our bodies, but they built them bigger and stronger than we are. And they can exchange parts so they can live forever... There are no more real Cylons. They died off thousands of yahrens ago, leaving behind a race of super-machines, but we still call them Cylons.
So, the reptilian race was also called the ‘Cylons’.

About Baltar, it’s true that the Cylons called him “commander”, but that’s because they put him in charge of one of their battleships in Lost Planet of the Gods. I don’t think they call him “commander” before that. Did he have a military post in human society, prior to the destruction of the Colonies? We don’t really know, but I find it significant that in the novelizations, which are not canon but are based on the scripts, he is always described as a politician, never as a military officer.

The fact that, as you say, the Cylons called him “commander” while the humans called him “count” would seem to suggest that he had a different status in the two societies.

It’s also true that in Lost Planet of the Gods he says that he was "trapped between the Atlantia and my own Battlestar", but I tend to regard that as somewhat of a blooper, and I think many other fans do too. If Baltar was in charge of a battlestar, then what happened to it?

Did it run away from the battle? Then why did no one in the human fleet notice that? They noticed when the Galactica left!

Did Baltar abandon his battlestar and let it be destroyed? If Baltar’s battlestar had been destroyed in the attack, the Galactica warriors who were left behind, like Starbuck and Boomer, would know about it, and it would not make much sense for Baltar to use that excuse in Lost Planet of the Gods.

As a side note, the novelizations, which tend to be more consistent than the TV show, never mention a battlestar. Instead, they could be read to mean that Baltar ran away from the Atlantia in a shuttle or some other kind of small ship. To me, this makes more sense.

Finally, yes, Baltar says he was a member of the Council, but then so was Sire Uri, who was a merchant! Further, when we see the original members of the Council in the premiere, they are all wearing civilian outfits except for Adama.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-11, 07:31 PM
Thanks for the Cylon creators clarification. I didn't recall that was what they were called.

The Dirk Benedict Starbuck, in the original series, commented once, I think in the same episode "The Planet of the Gods," about "Baltar's little Empire" so I think that Baltar was already known to be a weasel of sorts and in it for his own interests.
Maybe he was a Battlestar Commander and was part of the Council of Twelve and tried a coup against President Adar and failed.
(But if that were true, he probably would have been punished a tad more severely and wouldn't be around at all.)

He did lie to the Colonials about the mining possibilities on Carrilion (I think that was the name) — that planet that had the casino on it which was destroyed, along with the basestars. Boomer and Starbuck discuss Baltar's lies about the planet quite openly, and mention the "empire" remark then.
It is clear from that exchange that Baltar wasn't happy with what he could get from the Colonials and bargained with the Cylons instead.

In the new series, we have seen the #6 model, the Press Guy model, the Gun Runner model and the Boomer model. That is four out of 12.

My question is: Who left the note for Adama cluing him into the fact there were 12 models?

Who knows other than Baltar?
Did he leave the note?
If so, they are going in a wholley different route with that character than in the original. Prodgical son rather than outright Judas.

EckJerome
2003-Dec-11, 08:41 PM
In the new series, we have seen the #6 model, the Press Guy model, the Gun Runner model and the Boomer model. That is four out of 12.

I assume they meant 12 models total...we also saw the Cylon guard robots, and the Cylon fighter-ship robots. #6 also mentioned the old "toaster" variety of the original series as still having their uses. So that is 7 out of 12.

Eric

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-11, 09:10 PM
Well, I see that point Eric, however, if that is what they mean, they didn't make that very clear. I think it is mentioned first by Number Six when it is revealed what she is to Baltar. They are speaking specifically about the humanlike cylons at that time and this is when she says there are 12 models.

It would make sense that perhaps she means 12 models total, including the mechanicals, but the script was very vague, or her delivery was lousy.

If it does include the mechanicals, it does take the tally up to seven, which means five are totally unknown.
Do you think they also include the periferals as "models?" It would make sense, in a non-organic sort of way that anything created by them would be them. So maybe that even includes the module Number Six had in her briefcase — the device which was "discovered" by Baltar on the Galactica.

Hmmm.

Rich
2003-Dec-11, 10:06 PM
I seemed to get that the models she was #6 of were specifically humanoid models. Didn't Baltar ask something to the effect of, "How many more like you are there?" that prompted her reponse about being #6? Guess, I'll have to watch it again.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-11, 11:03 PM
I have the DVD (rough copy) at home. I will look at that scene. I think that scene aired in the final; cut virtually untouched (save an edit of the girl leaving the bed and Baltar's posterior) ....

It also is airing the Sunday on Sci Fi beginning at 6 p.m. (I think).

I'll post what is said verbatim.

Tuckerfan
2003-Dec-11, 11:52 PM
Uh, Tuckerfan ...

How can you tell me that I am wrong about Angels in America ... or rather HBO's Angels in America, if you say you haven't even seen it?
The inward imaginings and hallucinations that the characters have in their personal dealings with their stresses are being totally VISUALLY realized in this rework of the play.
Actual angels are blasting through ceilings and the Hebrew Book of Life is crashing through floors in this thing.

Please at least see the thing before you tell me what it's about.

Most bet that many people watching this series are watching only because angels are flitting about in it. They probably couldn't care less about the underlying issues. I even heard one person here at my job say that they watched it because they thought it was about angels, but when they saw it was "part of the gay agenda" they switched it off.

Enlightenment is abound, eh?Haven't seen it because I don't have HBO nor do I live anywhere the play was performed. However, I have followed news accounts of the play intensely, I've heard, read, and seen interviews with various cast members and the writer of the play. As you stated, people who thought it was about angels turned it off, when they realized that it dealt with gay issues. You also implied that the play was somehow springing off the "Touched by an Angel" show, when in fact, the play dates from before it.

The scenes you describe are in the stage play (the reviews all gave brief mentions of them), but again, they are, according to everything I've read, merely plot devices to aid in storytelling and not a major tenet of the play.

waynek
2003-Dec-12, 01:05 AM
Okay, I have it on tape (for my brother who just moved and doesn't have cable anymore). Here's what was said in the broadcast version:



NUMBER SIX
Gaius, I can't die. When this body's destroyed, my memory, my consciousness will be transmitted to a new one. I'll just wake up somewhere else in an identical body.
BALTAR
You mean there's more out there like you?
NUMBER SIX
There are twelve models. I'm Number Six.


I admit that when I first heard this I thought she meant there were twelve copies of her, of which she was in the sixth body. I think it's clear now, however, that she meant there were twelve human looking versions. It is just ambiguous enough, though, that it could mean 12 total Cylon models.

There's something else that bothers me, though. If you only had twelve "spy" models, and presumably you can only use each one in one place at a time, why have at least two of them on a decomissioned clunker?? Maybe they knew their plan wouldn't work on Galactica, but if so, why not sabotage it at the beginning rather than letting it rearm and escape? If they planned to let the remnants collect themselves first to save them the trouble of hunting each ship separately, then why didn't the dialog at the end reflect that?

One final thought. There is a remote possibility that the Boomer twist will have a second twist. What if it turns out that Cylon Boomer is a copy of the real Boomer, and the one on Galactica isn't a sleeper after all? Unlikely, I know, but I wouldn't put it past them.

KerryF
2003-Dec-12, 04:22 AM
I havn't seen the mini-series (being in New Zealand) but the whole X varieties of human style infiltrator robots thing sounds like it was lifted straight out of "Second Variety" by Philip K. Dick..which is no bad thing as its an excellent short story.

Captain Kidd
2003-Dec-12, 12:15 PM
There's something else that bothers me, though. If you only had twelve "spy" models, and presumably you can only use each one in one place at a time, why have at least two of them on a decomissioned clunker?? Maybe they knew their plan wouldn't work on Galactica, but if so, why not sabotage it at the beginning rather than letting it rearm and escape? If they planned to let the remnants collect themselves first to save them the trouble of hunting each ship separately, then why didn't the dialog at the end reflect that?
Two?
Boomer's a plant, but apparently one of the sleepers that doesn't know they're a sleeper (which felt like it was lifted from B5, <um B5 spoiler for any who haven't seen the series and are watching it now.;)>Talia Winters the psychic who turned out to be a PsyCop sleeper).
The guy they left behind was from the liner the Sec of Edu was on.
6 was with Baltar.
The gun runner was on the station.
Am I missing one?

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-12, 03:52 PM
I did watch it and agree with waynek's opinion on the ambiguity of the dialogue. I think that is just their weakness not an intended waylay of the facts. I think they mean for us to know that there are 12 humanlike Cylon models — and with that standing true, we have only seen four total. This means that the other six types can be anywhere on the convoy ships or on the Galactica.
I tend to think that there is two on the Galactica, not including the Press guy, since he came onto the ship only because of circumstances created by the invasion/genocide. He had already left the ship, and if things had not happened as they did, he would have arrived on Caprica with the rest of them.

Boomer is one. I doubt they are going to try the switcheroo or a copy of an original thing. It is included in the dialogue that she is new — only two years into service. If I recall correctly, I think that Number Six states something similar — that she has been working on, or Gaius says they have been working on the project for the same amount of time. So if my memory is correct on this, the Cylons planted their aware and sleeper spies into the colony worlds two years prior to the invasion/genocide. If there is a series picked up after the miniseries, anyone who is said to or says they have been in service for "two years" is suspect.

Which brings me to this point: Why didn't Boomer and the Press guy activate during this show? If they have been sleeping until the Cylons attack, and they sure did attack and how!, why are they still not active? Why didn't Boomer activate, along with the rest of them the moment the Cylons started their final assault on the Colony worlds? If their plan was the exterminate all humans, that would mean that their spies should have already attained a level where this was possible and all they needed to do was enact the plan in unison with the major assult. Everything done and out at the same time.
I think that was a plot blunder.

Tucker:
I never implied any deep connection between Touched by an Angel and HBO's Angels in America.
All I said was that angels were making a comeback.
That was it.
Personally, I think that series is a tad overdramatized and mistakingly comical in its caracaturish depictions of people.

Swift
2003-Dec-12, 05:25 PM
Which brings me to this point: Why didn't Boomer and the Press guy activate during this show? If they have been sleeping until the Cylons attack, and they sure did attack and how!, why are they still not active? Why didn't Boomer activate, along with the rest of them the moment the Cylons started their final assault on the Colony worlds?
The only reason I can think of is they were some sort of back-up plan by the Cylons, that if there attach didn't work to kill off all of the humans that the would have some spies available with the remaining ones. But maybe I'm giving the writers too much credit.

The other question I have is the motive of the red-dress Cylon. Why is she giving Baltar help (such as pointing out the device on the Bridge)? Is this a Cylon trick to get Baltar to trust her, so they can then manipulate him in the future, or is she really sympathetic to humans (she's in love with Baltar?) and is really trying to help.

waynek
2003-Dec-12, 05:36 PM
Boomer's a plant, but apparently one of the sleepers that doesn't know they're a sleeper ... The guy they left behind was from the liner the Sec of Edu was on.
6 was with Baltar.
The gun runner was on the station.
Am I missing one?

I was counting the press guy. According to dialog, he'd been on the Galactica for a week or so leading up to the decomissioning, although you are right he was on the transport during the initial attack. The only thing I noticed him do that would have helped the Cylons is that he was the loudest voice for not leaving the non-FTL ships behind (which would have doomed everyone).

The Cylons probably knew the hardest people to kill would be those scattered here and there in interplanetary transit, so it stands to reason that's where most of their plants would be. BTW, this is another thing I liked about this version, I seem to remember most of the ships in the original taking off from planets (even though the spaceports would be a logical first target of the attack). My guess is that the spies jobs were to heard the survivors together so they could be more easily destroyed, which is just what happened. The only reason I can think of to not activate the sleepers yet would be as a backup in case the original "heard them together and destroy" plan didn't work out.

BTW, I also liked the Sec of Edu becomes president thing. I was afraid they were going to do one of those "heroicly saving the president" things, so when in the beginning she's pretty far down in the line of succession I thought that worked a lot better (and drives home just how much of the government was wiped out).

ToSeek
2003-Dec-12, 06:02 PM
The other question I have is the motive of the red-dress Cylon. Why is she giving Baltar help (such as pointing out the device on the Bridge)? Is this a Cylon trick to get Baltar to trust her, so they can then manipulate him in the future, or is she really sympathetic to humans (she's in love with Baltar?) and is really trying to help.

Is she really a Cylon at that point or just Baltar's overactive subconscious trying to point things out to him?

Captain Kidd
2003-Dec-12, 06:56 PM
The other question I have is the motive of the red-dress Cylon. Why is she giving Baltar help (such as pointing out the device on the Bridge)? Is this a Cylon trick to get Baltar to trust her, so they can then manipulate him in the future, or is she really sympathetic to humans (she's in love with Baltar?) and is really trying to help.

Is she really a Cylon at that point or just Baltar's overactive subconscious trying to point things out to him?

Ah, that is the question isn't it? :)

Swift
2003-Dec-12, 07:00 PM
Is she really a Cylon at that point or just Baltar's overactive subconscious trying to point things out to him?
She at least claims she's external to his subconscious (that's a weird sentence). I don't think she is physically with him (Cylons can't cloak) but there was a conversation shortly after she appeared where Baltar explained her like that and she said something about maybe I put a little chip in your brain (or something like that). The bit on the bridge pointing out the device was also supposed to show that she is "real".

hewhocaves
2003-Dec-12, 07:03 PM
hmmm.. some thoughts on the cylons (the number 12, red dress and programming)

The only impression that I got from the number 12 was that there are 12 version of a spy model. Something akin to regenerations of time lords or, more appropriately clones in 'Paranoia' (faulty memo-max transfer time!) To me, that's the most logical course for the Cylons. Only one is 'in the field' at a given time, the rest are held on foward base stars.

Secondly, red-dress's two most distinguishing qualities; that Baltar can see her and her randiness I explain as follows.
Baltar's got something either implanted in his head to receive low-band transmissions or they've just mixed up his internal brains. A third possibilty is that Baltar is a Cylon himself. Consider this scenario: They make a Baltar spy, plant him so that he becomes a great scientist and essentially writes the enemy's defensive codes. They would not then need to crack the codes, as they wrote them! To further convince Baltar that he's not a cylon (ala Bladerunner) they set up a second cylon patsy (red-dress) to take the fall. Since Baltar IS a cylon, he can receive transmissions anytime.
Randiness... is it possible for cylons to 'go native'? Can they be so exposed to humans that the exposed ones get 'addicted' to human emotions and sensulity? Is this the beginning of the end of the cylons and will this result in a cylon civil war? Probably. That's what seems to happen to most Sci-fi shows these days. If you want to program something to be indistinguishible from humans, the best way is to make them feel that they are human. The old sci-fi conceit is that once a robot has experienced humanity, he is unable to return to being a mindless sutomoton; creativity essentially begatting a soul, as it were.

Of course this is all rampant speculation. No series is so perfectly set up that we should take it's first episode as unadulterated canon. In this way, it's much more like oral mythology.

tbg
2003-Dec-12, 07:58 PM
It was okay. The original was about 1000 times better, IMO, but if this were to become a series, I'd probably watch at least the first few eps.

I will say this was better than Galactica 1980, but that's not saying much, is it?

One thing that annoyed me, probably to an irrational degree, giving them "real" names. Like Apollo isn't Apollo, that's just his callsign, his real name is Lee Adama. Adama has a first name, stuff like that. I know it doesn't make any less sense than these people speaking English for them to have names somewhat like ours, but to me one of the neat things about the original was how most of the characters had these "exotic" names like Apollo or Starbuck or Boomer.

And it is totally annoying how they made Starbuck a woman. If they wanted a lead woman, they should have just used one of the women from the original, not totally wrecking one of the coolest characters from the original. And wasn't Boomer originally a man as well? Of course now Boomer's apparently a robot, which is even more annoying to me.

Col. Ty, damn, he was so much better in the old version. Here he's just a butthole.

And the whole "humans made Cylons" thing, that to me just seems like they're trying to cash in on the whole machines turn on humans thing that's so popular as of late, like in the Matrix and Terminator movies. I liked it better when Cylons were created by a now extince race of alien lizards. And how much cooler were the old Cylons? They were so cool that they put one in the opening credits for the A-Team! Well, at least we got to see one in a museum.

That "12 models" thing, that was confusing. Judging by the ending it seems they meant that there are 12 human infiltration models (or possibly as suggested 12 Cylon models all together, though that's less likely, IMO) but as stated by #6, I thought it meant there were 12 bodies that that particular "consciousness" could transfer into, and it was currently on it's 6th body.

So, bottom line, I liked it enough to watch more if they make it, but I thought it was pretty shabby compared to the original. I would much rather if they were to make a new series for them to get Richard Hatch involved and make it a continuation of the original (completely ignoring 1980, of course!), but I know the chances of that ever happening to be slim and none, and slim just left town.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-12, 08:12 PM
Interesting thoughts Hew. I like the Baltar as Cylon tangent. Very interesting, but alas, I too would be surprised if the writers of this new version happened to be that clever. If they are, it didn't show all throughout the remake.

I think that the 12 thing is just simply explained by the fact that humans love to make cosmic connecetions with the mundane. Seven and 12 are "sacred" numbers today in the real world, and to the humans in BSG 12 is "sacred" as well. (This series was created by a Mormon afterall. Kobol, Kolob ... whatever.)
It is logical that the Cylons, who were made by humans, would retain the signifigance of 12 — even if it means nothing to them — they know it means a whole lot to the humans.

I think that they want to be loved, but theink they can't be, or will never be accepted after the "Fall" so as machines, logic tells them that the genocide is the only way to obtain peace with their masters. Very cold and what a machine would think. Kudos on the logic.
This is hinted at by #6's actions and desires, if you could say that, and by the dialogue at the end where the cylon human spies are congregated in the armory and their biggest issue is not that the humans would come back at all, but that they would come back to avenge.
Sort of like, we screwed up and to fix it we need to wipe them out completely or they will try to do the same to us.
(I think I'm explaining that weird, but I think I'm getting that point across.)

waynek
2003-Dec-13, 12:42 AM
I don't like the Baltar is a Cylon angle. Then, it becomes completely an inside job and looses all sense of betrayal by a fellow human. Doesn't work for me.

I like the implanted chip theory, except how would that work after their FTL jump? They'd either have to know the direction they went, or have non-directional FTL communication. I guess since the technology is fictional they can have whatever they want, but wouldn't it have been better to implant a transmitter instead?

Another thing, if there's supposed to be some sort of uplink from the humanoid Cylons to transfer their consiousness, why couldn't they home in on that? And how would it be generated in the first place, if they are medically indestinguishable from humans?

I know, I'm thinking too much. I wouldn't care except I did like the show overall.

Tuckerfan
2003-Dec-13, 01:32 AM
Tucker:
I never implied any deep connection between Touched by an Angel and HBO's Angels in America.
All I said was that angels were making a comeback.
That was it.
Personally, I think that series is a tad overdramatized and mistakingly comical in its caracaturish depictions of people.Your original statement was
We have seen a resurgence of this now with the Millennium, however, instead of aliens we are back to angels.
Some will say they are one in the same.
Either makes for great fiction, sci-fi or otherwise. Look at HBO's Angels in America series now playing to see how angels are making a strong comeback, even years after the advent of Touched by an Angel.Implying that had it not been for Touched by an Angel, Angels in America, it might never been made. Whatever you might think of the film, the play won a Pulitzer and 2 Tonys. (http://www.msnbc.com/news/990683.asp)

SirThoreth
2003-Dec-14, 09:56 PM
OK, been thinking about it, and I have a theory.

In the original Battlestar Galactica, Earth was supposed to be the 13th colony of Kobol that was "lost".

After watching the newly remade miniseries, I believe the writers have taken that silly idea, which isn't remotely supported by current scientific evidence, and decided to go somewhere new with it.

Suppose, sometime in the future, we find a world that can support human life, but that was far enough away that it'd be difficult to reach. Given how Galactica's FTL technology works (article here (http://www.galactica2003.net/colonials/spacefolding.shtml) - can someone do a plausibility check on this?), I'm going to assume that we hadn't developed it when we found this planet.

OK, so, moronic distance away means long time to reach without FTL, so someone comes up with the idea to send a generational ship, perhaps even a sleeper ship (questionable, given our understanding of cryonics). They head out to this new colony, which ends up named Kobol.

OK, so given enough time, we can be pretty sure that the culture of the colonists will diverge from Earth culture. Heck, this might have even been intentional, to some degree, as the decision could have been made to make the colonists as much of a hodge-podge of Earth cultures as possible. This would explain many of our new characters' first names, the way they salute, the Greco-Roman themes that show up frequently, the hints at other cultures, etc. Why do that, though? Easy - create a single culture, and you don't have as many inter-cultural disputes, avoiding many of the reasons for the wars we on Earth have fought.

OK, so, global culture, distant future, perhaps no real good memory of Earth - this is Kobol, Earth's distant colony. Eventually, scientists on Kobol develop their FTL drive technology, making their own colonization phase that much easier. In the original, IIRC, warfare forced them to colonize other worlds. The same could be true here. Heck, there's nothing to say that the society and culture we see in Battlestar Galactica wasn't purposely developed during this period - again, to prevent the same kind of conflict from occurring again. Perhaps, even, the war was between Kobol and Earth (ya never know), and both worlds were devastated.

This could also be a good explanation of why Earth is now believed to be another remote "lost" colony of Kobol, the idea being to leave Earth isolated to be given enough time to rebuild. Perhaps Earth insisted on being isolationist. Or, perhaps, Earth was beaten down hard, is operating at a much more primitive level - who knows?

Anyone here read "Helm" by Stephen Gould? After a major war on Earth, that left the planet uninhabitable, a group of colonists were sent out on a sleeper ship to a newly-discovered inhabitable world (IIRC, around Vega). They didn't have the resources to send a viable population and a large technological base, so they were sent with enough to establish a Middle Ages equivalent tech base, and were imprinted while asleep with a kind of social and moral code that, it was hoped, would encourage proper hygiene, literacy, etc., so that they didn't fall victim to much of the same problems Europe had during that time period (plagues, etc), and give them a fighting chance. Something similar could have been done for the Colonials on their way from Kobol.

So, that's my theory - the Colonials honestly believe they're ancestors are from a planet called Kobol, and they're right. But, what they don't know is that Earth, believed to be a lost colony of Kobol, is actually the planet humans developed on, and where the people of Kobol, in fact, came from. It'll be interesting, should this become a series, and they eventually find Earth, to see if the writers go this route.

Captain Kidd
2003-Dec-15, 03:53 PM
The more I think about it, the more I realize there’s a lot of stuff I didn’t like how they handled.

Commander Adama’s little speech at the end. “Earth exists, select fleet leaders were giving the coordinates, we’re going there.” Then he admits he lied. That was a big freaking mistake (making it in the first place, not admitting it). I donno if the writers have something planned for that or just weren’t thinking. But that little speech could doom everybody.
1. They’re immediately going to have to head off on a specific course. He can fiddle with it a bit by claiming they need to go here for this, there for that. But since they’re in ‘uncharted territory’ he really doesn’t have much to lean on and the crew’ll get suspicious if he doesn’t immediately set a hard ‘for sure’ course.
2. Eventually the crew will find out. Adama might clue in the navigators that they’re going to fly about in circles but eventually somebody’s going to get suspicious. Then there’s going to be trouble. Suddenly the whole foundation of their existence post-attack is ripped away from them. Morale goes bye-bye, probable riots as people lose all faith in him. The President will loose too no matter how she denies it. So she gave him leeway to continue the lie, but by ‘saying nothing’ she has told the people that she knows it true too. She could save some face by scapegoating Adama, but still she just set herself up for looking really, really stupid and/or co-conspirator.
3. So now the crew/populace has little to no faith in their two highest leaders, they in the middle of nowhere, some of the crew know that there’s Cylon plants onboard (Adama and the President would most likely get witch-trialed as being ones, why else do such a Big Lie) so that’ll spread like wildfire, and there’s nowhere to go.

Anybody agree with me on this? The writers should have had him say (like the original Adama IIRC, it’s been awhile) “we don’t know for sure where it is, but we’ll give it a go.” Or something other than “I know where it is.” That was too concrete a statement. I’m a little worried about how bad a sign this is of lack of thought on the writers part (Adama would be too smart to really say that surly). Either they plan on the crew been too dumb to figure it out or they won’t get all that mad (again ‘cause they’re dumb). Come-on, Battlestars would be the premo position; there would have been tons of auxiliary units to serve on; so they’re not going to place all of the dumbest-of-the-dumb on the main line units. And general public has a massive mob mentality with very low IQ. You think they’d be all that forgiving?

I donno, that just really bugged me. Plus, are they now going with Earth not existing or will eventually they will find evidence it really does? Even if they do, Adama (and the President by association) will still have been proven as liars and the above would apply.

Okay, that’s enough of a rant for now. ;)

PS Who wants to bet that Boomer'll realize she's a Cylon and 'repent' and join them so they can have a enemey-as-a crewmemeber scenario ala 7 of 9 and to a broader extent Worf (hey, he was there at first for the shock value of "OMG a Klingon is on the Enterprise!" and to have one of 'the enemy' from TOS as a goodguy.)

TheGalaxyTrio
2003-Dec-16, 07:47 PM
Commander Adama’s little speech at the end. “Earth exists, select fleet leaders were giving the coordinates, we’re going there.” Then he admits he lied.

No, actually, he agreed with the President when she revealed she *knew* there was no Earth. Perhaps he has the knowledge, but for some reason didn't want to bother correcting the President's ignorance. There's several ways to interpret that scene. And what was in those old books he was holding?

BenM
2003-Dec-16, 09:00 PM
I was thinking the same thing TheGalaxyTrio. I have a hunch that Adama at least believes that Earth exists and he can find it. He had a bunch of books scattered around his quarters and I don't think they were crew reports. While I agree that it may be difficult to pull of, I don't think that he pulled the "Earth" solution out of thin air.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-16, 09:22 PM
The thing is, in truth, that Earth DOES exist, whether they believe it or not.
Adama believes that it does, despite he told President he didn't, but this is easily explained: He can only be sure of his own humanity and not of the humanity of anyone else on the ship. (The human Cylon problem)
He isn't about to spill the beans on Earth to anyone — which will probably be a recurring issue in the series which HAS been picked up — for fear that the Cylons will find out and exterminate them all.

After all, the Cylons came from mankind. They should and could know all the facts humans do — that includes fact and seeming fiction (history and myth). Perhaps that is why the spies didn't activate during what should have been the 'final' assult on humanity ... maybe it was in their plan to let one ship go ... the ship whose commander would be most ept to go looking for Earth, just so they could go along and let the Cylons know if they ever found it.

Captain Kidd
2003-Dec-17, 02:33 PM
Good points. I don't doubt he believes it exists, but still, that's a thin sheet of ice to go out on by saying he knows where it exists. If he doesn't get definitive proof by the time the crew figures it out, he's stil SOL.

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-17, 07:28 PM
I just read on Richard Hatch's BSG Web site the following (which I will paraphrase):

1. Adama didn't come up with the Earth idea. A priest did after reading about it in their "scriptures." He, according to the series writers, doesn't believe in Earth himself.

2. The Cylons have their own religion and religious ideas, including the concept of soul and love.

3. Lucifer and Spectre may be appearing in the series. (Yeah!)

4. They will never find Earth.

informant
2003-Dec-17, 07:33 PM
3. Lucifer and Spectre may be appearing in the series.
Will they be played by beautiful supermodels? ;)

Val Trottan
2003-Dec-17, 09:20 PM
Well, Lucifer IS supposed to be the most perfect and beautiful of all the Heavenly Host, so if it were a male supermodel, I guess I couldn't complain too loudly.
Yuck.
Yuck.

Ahem.

My opinion on how they should "man" these characters is that they should definitely be robotic. They should be similar to the original versions, but certainly not as cheesy.
I'm still suffering from Centurion Cylon withdrawl since we really never saw them on screen in this version.
Which forces me to ask: Why does everything HAVE TO BE CGI these days?!?
I would be totally cool with guys (or girls to be fair) in full body suits tooling around sporting the rolling red eye and chrome accessories. Sheesh! Just because we can do a thing, (CGI effects), does it necessarily follow that we must do that thing?

L-l-l-l-l-leaping langosta.

Solfe
2003-Dec-29, 05:46 AM
I was thinking Adama and the President "know" Earth doesn't exist, because it is just a legend. Everyone else thinks it is a legend too, but now believe they know the source of the legend. He can set course for Earth because any number of "odd ball earth-ologist" have named a direction, but never had the ability to check.

Sounds a bit like the Atlantis theories, um? Any number of sites have been named for its location, mostly by oddballs. We could pick one site for any reasons other than finding it, say, a nice island resort, and still seem to have the original goal in mind.

<disclaimer> I don't think Atlantis exists, but may be an "enhanced" legend of actual historical event. Someone must have built a city on the sea and had it wash away, or blown up by a volcano or shaken down by a 'quake. Legends are nice ways to remember really old follies. </disclaimer.>

People believe a lot of odd things without knowing why they do or even the source of the orginal belief.

I think these guys are reaching for this "Planet Earth" theory, because they are running on empty and they want to believe in something.

Bill Dunaway
2004-Jan-02, 02:45 PM
It doesn't make any sense to me why it has taken the Cylons so long to destroy humanity. They've been able to make perfect human duplicates for years. Why not simply create duplicates of key military leaders, waste the originals, and use them to disable the fleet? They'd hardly need to corrupt Baltar if they could simply create a duplicate of him that would do their bidding. None of their duplicates so far have been in very high poisitions.

dgruss23
2004-Jan-02, 05:58 PM
I read the book for the original Battlestar Galactica story a few days ago. Its definitely a much better story than the new one.

tracer
2004-Jan-05, 10:17 PM
Well, Lucifer IS supposed to be the most perfect and beautiful of all the Heavenly Host,
It's amazing how one bad interpretation of one passage in one old English translation of Isaiah 14:12 can spawn a myth that endures for centuries. ;)

EckJerome
2004-Jan-16, 12:21 AM
I read the book for the original Battlestar Galactica story a few days ago. Its definitely a much better story than the new one.

You mean including that horrid Ovion subplot? :o

Geoff394
2004-Jan-28, 09:40 PM
4. They will never find Earth.

Oh Frack!

dgruss23
2004-Jan-28, 10:10 PM
I read the book for the original Battlestar Galactica story a few days ago. Its definitely a much better story than the new one.

You mean including that horrid Ovion subplot? :o

Well, it wasn't that bad if you think about the alternatives. Both the new movie and the original share in common that you have one more escape of the survivors from the cylons. I like the way they did it in the new movie, but the original wasn't that bad - because it addressed the fact that they had to get all sorts of supplies somewhere before they started off on their long trek.

But the problem for the original is how to create that final encounter with the cylons? So they chose to have a third party in league with the cylons that is not necessarily suspicious to the humans. It also creates quite a bit of tension at the end when you think all the fighter pilots are on the planet when an entire squadron is actually on board the Galactica. I think the only thing I would change about that is to change the nature of the Ovions in some way. The whole insectoid scavenger angle was pretty weak.

Madcat
2004-Feb-02, 05:11 AM
4. They will never find Earth.

Well of course not! Then they'd be out of work! :lol:

tracer
2004-Feb-02, 05:33 AM
And, worse, if they ever found Earth, the series would have to turn into Galactica 1980. :o

Starbuck
2004-Feb-02, 12:57 PM
Well, now we get to find out. (http://www.trektoday.com/news/010204_02.shtml)

Geoff394
2004-Feb-02, 03:08 PM
Galactica 1980

Historian: We weren't sure at first what to make of this, but we developed a theory: we feel that when people committed great crimes against the state, they were forced to watch this.

Miles Monroe: Yes. That's exactly what it was.

- Woody Allen's Sleeper 1973

Sums that show up rather well don't you think?

silentmikeny
2004-Jul-11, 03:52 AM
There's a copy of the script floating around on the net. I couldn't even make it through the first page it's so bad. I've heard that farther along they screw the physics up something fierce. Edward James Almos has been quoted as saying folks shouldn't watch it. Gotta be bad if one of the star's is saying it sucks.

Oh, and Zaphod, the creator of the original series was a Mormon, so he was recruiting for that, and not Scientology, if he was recruiting for anything.

More specifically, it was Glen Larson. <shrug> The series is full of references to the LDS (Mormon) church...as referenced in this website: http://www.proaxis.com/~sherlockfam/art5.html

Zaphod... Where did you get that psychopathic Scientologist mumbo-jumbo?

Anyway, I notice that Larson is not involved in this Sci-Fi project, AND they're touting it as an original. What gives?!

silentmikeny
2004-Jul-11, 03:57 AM
I don't know ...

I've always thought Battlestar Galactica was a bit too much like a Recruitment Pamphlet for The Church of Scientology.....

If you Google with "battlestar galactica Mormon" you will find over 600 references. I do not know if the new version is as controversial.

How dare you call the original controversial? Just because your religion (I'm assuming you're not Mormon) is false and blasphemous, don't bring Brother Larson down because he promoted the only true church in this dispensation.

silentmikeny
2004-Jul-11, 04:01 AM
The whole thing looks like a PC-fest. The story idea was fine as it was and a remake with CGI, etc. would have made it better than the original. Just another case of somebody trying to "teach" or should I say "preach" their view point in the guise of entertainment.
And of course, Glen Larson's use of the original Battlestar Galactica as a springboard for his Mormonism wasn't preachy at all. :roll:

HIS Mormonism? HIS MORMONISM???? If you felt preached too, suck it up and move on. Mormonism is the only true church on Earth, leaving the rest of the religions as blasphemous and false. Glen Larson didn't PREACH. He did a genius job of incorporating the elements of Mormonism into the show. Did the characters sit down and read the Book of Mormon? Did they hold a F&T meeting? NO! So take your preaching accusations and burn in hell, which is where all non-Mormons will go.

wedgebert
2004-Jul-11, 08:36 AM
I smell a banning...

HAVOC451
2004-Jul-11, 12:03 PM
The series starts in January. I, for one, am looking forward to it.

waynek
2004-Jul-13, 04:31 AM
And here I thought this thread had been revived because of the new adds they showed during Stargate Friday. Where's that crying face...
:cry:

I don't know if silentmikeny is trying to evangelize or just bash non-mormons, but I don't think he's helping his case with that attitude, not that that sort of thing is appropriate here in any case.

So, anyway, I was happy to see they set a date for starting the new series. I'm still witholding judgement on it, but I thought the pilot had a lot of promise. Then again, I thought Enterprise had a lot of promise too. Seems like a long time to January.