View Full Version : High schoolers use Apollo recordings to measure moon distance

2009-Mar-27, 01:25 AM
A paper on Arxiv (http://arxiv.org/abs/0903.3367) details how Italian high school students used Apollo voice recordings to measure Earth-Moon distance based on echos of mission control transmissions. They achieved an accuracy sufficient to measure the changing distance during the long lasting Apollo 17 mission.

But, but... Wasn't there a NASA goon standing behind the astronots in the hidden bunker in Area 51 telling them when to talk to give the impression of a light speed delay? I'm so confused now!

(I have to tip my hat to Astrodictum simplex (http://www.scienceblogs.de/astrodicticum-simplex/2009/03/echos-vom-mond-ein-beeindruckendes-schulerexperiment.php) for blogging about it.)

2009-Mar-27, 04:24 AM
Good find. Das Artikel war wirklich sehr interessant...:)

2009-Mar-27, 06:28 AM
Brilliant. Aber ich kann mir nicht vorstellen, daß die Verschwörungstheoretiker es verstehen können, oder wollen. . . :) !

2009-Mar-27, 06:42 AM
Sound stages come with sound equipment.

Wikipedia: Delay (audio effect) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_(audio_effect))

2009-Mar-27, 08:40 AM
That's too sophisticated for the usual hoax believer. They aren't the type to think of what technology could be used to put the correct delay in. They are the type to listen badly (to sometimes edited tapes) and decide that the delay "isn't right," and therefor the whole thing was faked.

It's Jay's argument about the stars all over again. (The hoax believers claim background stars were omitted because an Astronomy 101 student would be able to tell they were painted in the wrong places. Says Jay; "So hire that student to paint them.")

2009-Mar-27, 08:58 AM
Yeah but no but yeah but....

A delay would make it worse I would have thought? No good delaying the astronauts, they would be delayed twice anyway. Beaming the faked signal out to the repeater to get it back. Plus the whole can of worms involved ........ oh hang on.... we are talking HB theory.:whistle:

2009-Mar-27, 12:13 PM
That's too sophisticated for the usual hoax believer. They aren't the type to think of what technology could be used to put the correct delay in.

NASA can do anything, except land on the moon...

2009-Mar-27, 03:41 PM
Kudos to Luca Girlanda for this very nice piece of scientific work.
Nontheless, this will be discarded by HBers as being wrong because no stars are visible in the audiogram ;-)


2009-Mar-27, 04:54 PM
Sound stages come with sound equipment.

Wikipedia: Delay (audio effect) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay_(audio_effect))

Yes. And NASAstronauts are smart enough to accurately calculate these delays, yet still freely and publicly post photos and other evidence that so obviously unfurls their deception online.

2009-Mar-27, 07:33 PM
(I have to tip my hat to Astrodictum simplex (http://www.scienceblogs.de/astrodicticum-simplex/2009/03/echos-vom-mond-ein-beeindruckendes-schulerexperiment.php) for blogging about it.)

I started to mention this on another thread, but I got distracted. I remember hearing the echo live back in ’69, and I quickly figured out the cause of it. The timing of it gives away the cause, if one learned the number 186,000 in school.

Let’s see if this link works to an audio recording of Apollo 11, just before the first moon walk:


At about 2:10 - 2:14 into the clip, we hear the Houston statement and its echo:

“... clear and we copy your mark there Buzz.”

I got a timing of 2.83 seconds in the delay. I started my timer on the first word “Buzz” and I stopped my timer on the second word “Buzz”.

186,000 miles per second x 2.83 seconds = 526,380 miles /2 = 263,190 miles to the moon. (I think this is a slight over-estimate due to my timing error in pushing my stopwatch button.)

Houston speaks, the signal travels to the moon. The signal goes out through Buzz’s helmet speaker and is picked up by his open microphone and is transmitted back to earth. The voice signal is received back at Houston 2.83 seconds after it was sent. Radio-signal travel time each way is 263,190 miles (minus my timing error).

Note that Houston responds to Buzz’s comments instantly. That is because Buzz’s signal has already reached Houston when they are being recorded. That’s why there is no delay when Houston responds to Buzz. The recording is being made at Houston.

Note that when Houston says the first “... clear and we copy your mark there Buzz.”, that transmission is being recorded at Houston as it is being said, and there is no delay. Then comes the delay and we hear the signal repeated. Then Buzz responds. So, the echo is delayed and Buzz’s response is delayed.

We don’t hear the echo after every Houston transmission. I’m not sure if Buzz’s transmitter had a VOX switch or not, but the echo occurs whenever his microphone is open as a loud Houston signal is coming in to him.

2009-Apr-02, 11:17 AM
I get the impression a lot of what happened leading up to the landing is missed or glossed over. Problem is it explains an awful lot and does hold up and more importantly flies against the hoax that appears to say "hey, where did that suddenly come from?".

Of course, snippets will be accepted if it can be woven into a hoax.

2009-Apr-07, 08:14 AM
I moved the messages concerning the LM to this thread here (http://www.bautforum.com/conspiracy-theories/86907-lunar-module-too-flimsy.html)