PDA

View Full Version : Tobacco tax hike.



Buttercup
2009-Apr-01, 01:33 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/04/01/cigarette.tax/index.html

I'm not a smoker, but this -is- ridiculous.

Since the mid-90s especially there's been a huge push to get people to quit smoking. Yes, many did: And now we've got an obesity epidemic. You needn't be Einstein to figure out why [when many people stop smoking they start eating/gaining weight].

Why not also affix super-high taxes on booze and "adult" entertainment venues? Both can and often do lead to all sorts of health AND social ills.

So long as it's not smoking in confined public buildings/areas and restaurants [affecting others], people should be allowed to smoke and tobacco should be reasonably priced.

HenrikOlsen
2009-Apr-01, 02:01 PM
people should be allowed to smoke and tobacco should be reasonably priced.
But who defines reasonable?

I for one consider it quite reasonable to use taxing to discourage undesirable behavior instead of directly banning it, but then this is part of the greater discussion of the role government is supposed to have.

Buttercup
2009-Apr-01, 02:09 PM
But who defines reasonable?

In this context as easily affordable by most citizens.


I for one consider it quite reasonable to use taxing to discourage undesirable behavior

But who defines undesirable? [ :p ]

Chances are I'll never be in physical danger of someone driving while smoking [quite unlike someone who's legally intoxicated from alcohol; or yapping on a cellphone for that matter].

Nor in danger of being assaulted because someone got "turned on" by a cigarette. :rolleyes:

Click Ticker
2009-Apr-01, 02:31 PM
Shall we regurgitate the old seat belt thread?

Second hand smoke dangers
Increase in health costs
etc.

vs.

I don't smoke around other people
If I die earlier, I actually save health care costs in the long run

I agree that tax burdens should not be unreasonable. In attempting to define what is an isn't reasonable, politics are almost possible to avoid. We would have to delve into the appropriate role of government and all that good stuff.

pumpkinpie
2009-Apr-01, 02:36 PM
Since the mid-90s especially there's been a huge push to get people to quit smoking. Yes, many did: And now we've got an obesity epidemic. You needn't be Einstein to figure out why [when many people stop smoking they start eating/gaining weight].

Do you have any evidence to support the correlation between fewer smokers and the obesity epidemic?

Buttercup
2009-Apr-01, 02:48 PM
Do you have any evidence to support the correlation between fewer smokers and the obesity epidemic?

You mean as in scientific data and etc., right? :rolleyes: Graphs, charts, illustrious papers. Nope; but Google might yield up something.

I've personally known and/or heard of (media interviews, etc.) plenty of ex-smokers who admitted when they quit smoking they put on weight because instead of reaching for a cigarette now it's a donut. My mother was one of them, as are two friends (a married couple; who began smoking again to curb their appetite and remain slim). Etc.

Is that proof enough (powers of observation)? It is for me -- especially considering we didn't have an obesity epidemic until the mid-90s. I doubt it's a coincidence.

Tucson_Tim
2009-Apr-01, 02:51 PM
I've personally known and/or heard of (media interviews, etc.) plenty of ex-smokers who admitted when they quit smoking they put on weight because instead of reaching for a cigarette now it's a donut.

And I've personally known several ex-smokers who, after quitting, started exercising and actually lost weight.

captain swoop
2009-Apr-01, 02:54 PM
You mean as in scientific data and etc., right? :rolleyes: Graphs, charts, illustrious papers. Nope; but Google might yield up something.

I've personally known and/or heard of (media interviews, etc.) plenty of ex-smokers who admitted when they quit smoking they put on weight because instead of reaching for a cigarette now it's a donut. My mother was one of them, as are two friends (a married couple; who began smoking again to curb their appetite and remain slim). Etc.

Is that proof enough (powers of observation)? It is for me -- especially considering we didn't have an obesity epidemic until the mid-90s. I doubt it's a coincidence.

SO that would be no evidence at all apart from a couple of anecdotes?

Do you think that other posters will think that's enough on a forum like BAUT?

Buttercup
2009-Apr-01, 02:55 PM
And I've personally known several ex-smokers who, after quitting, started exercising and actually lost weight.

Terrific. :)

But that's not the point of the thread.

What else are we going to allow Big Brother Nanny to tell us what we can and cannot do?

If taxes were similarly hiked up on alcohol and "adult entertainment" venues (DVDs and magazines), there'd be a massive outcry and likely riots... :rolleyes:

Why is one vice worse than the other? You don't hear about "smoking driving crashes" and AIDS isn't spread by tobacco products either.

samkent
2009-Apr-01, 02:56 PM
Chances are I'll never be in physical danger of someone driving while smoking [quite unlike someone who's legally intoxicated from alcohol; or yapping on a cellphone for that matter].

We had an employee who smoked. He was a home service tech, so he drove every day from house to house. One day he had one of his coughing fits and drove off the road and into a culvert. Had he been in the city, he would have been on the sidewalk and into a building. Don’t be so sure you are safe from ‘smoking drivers’.
1 they reach across the dash/seat for the pack.
2 they look down for the lighters.
3 they drop ashes on their good clothes.

These lapses may be short lived but how often have we heard the phrase.

‘That tree jumped out in front of me.’

There’s more smoking drivers than drinking drivers.

Buttercup
2009-Apr-01, 02:58 PM
SO that would be no evidence at all apart from a couple of anecdotes?

I'm simply stating my opinion and what I've observed. I didn't offer to provide "evidence."


Do you think that other posters will think that's enough on a forum like BAUT?

Don't know, don't care. :)

If others want to research my opinion [those asking for proof], there's always Google. Must every opinion on BAUT be approved via Prof. Einstein's Harvard Stamp of Approval?

My opinion is not important. But I'm entitled to it.

If we're going to High Horse this thread, please close/lock it.

Tucson_Tim
2009-Apr-01, 03:01 PM
-- especially considering we didn't have an obesity epidemic until the mid-90s. I doubt it's a coincidence.

What happened in the mid-90s to start this epidemic?

M311
2009-Apr-01, 03:04 PM
I'm not sure where you are from? but by the end of the year there will be substantial price increase's on alcohol in my part of the UK if not all of it, the government say its to discourage binge drinking and underage drinking, but we all know its an excuse for more revenue. Those that are going to binge drink/underage drink or smoke will still do it, it will just leave them with even less money in their pockets, IMHO.

I'm not too bothered as I have never smoked and have cut down on alcohol.

Click Ticker
2009-Apr-01, 03:05 PM
What else are we going to allow Big Brother Nanny to tell us what we can and cannot do?

If taxes were similarly hiked up on alcohol and "adult entertainment" venues (DVDs and magazines), there'd be a massive outcry and likely riots... :rolleyes:

http://www.ttb.gov/tax_audit/atftaxes.shtml

http://www.taxfoundation.org/taxdata/show/245.html

Taxes are quite high on alcohol (at least the hard stuff). Not sure about other adult entertainment venues, unless they sell alcohol and cigarettes.

What about the lottery tax on the fiscally and statistically challenged?

pumpkinpie
2009-Apr-01, 03:13 PM
I'm simply stating my opinion and what I've observed. I didn't offer to provide "evidence."



Don't know, don't care. :)

If others want to research my opinion [those asking for proof], there's always Google. Must every opinion on BAUT be approved via Prof. Einstein's Harvard Stamp of Approval?

My opinion is not important. But I'm entitled to it.

If we're going to High Horse this thread, please close/lock it.

If that is your opinion, you are right. You are entitled to it. I wouldn't question that. I just didn't get the impression that it was an opinion based on what you wrote:


Since the mid-90s especially there's been a huge push to get people to quit smoking. Yes, many did: And now we've got an obesity epidemic. You needn't be Einstein to figure out why [when many people stop smoking they start eating/gaining weight].

Since you are not stating it as a fact, I won't ask again for evidence.

Carry on. :)

geonuc
2009-Apr-01, 03:17 PM
SO that would be no evidence at all apart from a couple of anecdotes?

Do you think that other posters will think that's enough on a forum like BAUT?
It should be - this is Off Topic Babbling, after all, not ATM. Let's not get carried away with demands for evidence.

R.A.F.
2009-Apr-01, 03:43 PM
Don't know, don't care.

Although it is not required that you provide evidence in this section of the forum, you shouldn't be surprised that when you make a claim, people here will be curious as to "how" you arrived at your opinion.

If it is simply "because I think so", then just say that and posters here can decide if they want to pay attention or ignore it.

ToSeek
2009-Apr-01, 03:48 PM
I don't see how this is an appropriate thread for BAUT. Closed.