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View Full Version : N-Korean satellite did not make orbit.



BetaDust
2009-Apr-05, 02:34 PM
From CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/).

U.S.: North Korean 'satellite' did not make orbit.


"Officials acknowledged today that North Korea launched a Taepo Dong 2 missile at 10:30 p.m. EDT Saturday, which passed over the Sea of Japan and the nation of Japan," the statement said. "Stage one of the missile fell into the Sea of Japan. The remaining stages along with the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean. No object entered orbit and no debris fell on Japan."

From zeenews.com (http://www.zeenews.com/world/2009-04-05/520920news.html).

North Korea failed to put satellite into orbit.



Washington, April 05: The US military on Sunday disputed North Korea's claim that it had launched a satellite into space, saying "the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean."
"Stage one of the missile fell into the Sea of Japan," the North American Aerospace Defense Command and US Northern Command said in their brief account of the North Korean rocket launch.
"The remaining stages along with the payload itself landed in the Pacific Ocean," the commands said. "No object entered orbit and no debris fell on Japan."



As a sidenote, from a now closed thread (http://www.bautforum.com/off-topic-babbling/86827-north-korea-launches-their-rocket.html#post1467338):

By antoniseb, Administrator.
...However, if someone wants to open a thread strictly about the orbital launching capabilities of this North Korean rocket without any implications about international relations, that will be fine.


I agree, I hope mine is oke.

-- Dennis

BetaDust
2009-Apr-05, 03:12 PM
From CNN.com (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/index.html).


The North Korean government characterized the act as a successful, peaceful launch of a satellite into orbit. More... (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/index.html)

North Korea's news agency, KCNA, stated that "scientists and technicians of the DPRK (Democratic People's Republic of Korea) have succeeded in putting satellite Kwangmyongsong-2, an experimental communications satellite, into orbit by means of carrier rocket Unha-2 under the state long-term plan for the development of outer space." More... (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/05/north.korea.rocket/index.html)

Wiki: Kwangmyongsong satellite. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyongsong)

So, that thing (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kwangmyongsong) crashed into the ocean, did it not..?

BetaDust
2009-Apr-05, 03:55 PM
From CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com)

Estimates of missile trajectory, Annimation (http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestoftv/2009/04/05/lawrence.korea.explain.cnn).

-- Dennis

novaderrik
2009-Apr-05, 05:03 PM
i doubt if North Korea ever really cared if the "satellite" ever made it to orbit- the whole point of this was to get the US and it's allies to take notice that North Korea was potentially a threat if they wanted to be.
if that's the case- and i believe it probably is- then is it even worthwhile to talk about the orbital launch capabilities of a rocket that was never truly intended to put anything into orbit?
all of this was nothing more than political posturing to try to intimidate the UN and US into giving North Korea respect and aid- nothing more, nothing less. they played this game a couple of years ago with their nuclear reactors, and now they are using the potential threat of a nuclear warhead landing in Alaska or Hawaii or Tokyo or Seoul.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/as_nkorea_missile

Nicolas
2009-Apr-05, 06:20 PM
...However, if someone wants to open a thread strictly about the orbital launching capabilities of this North Korean rocket without any implications about international relations, that will be fine.

*cough*

Jens
2009-Apr-06, 01:41 AM
Just as a question (trying to skirt the political issues), how common is it for orbital shots to go wrong and end up crashing? I'm just wondering, that considering that DPRK is an emerging technological nation, like say Iran or India, is it normal that this would happen, or is it really natural to assume that the rocket was only intended as a demonstration of ICBM capabilities?

dgavin
2009-Apr-06, 03:36 AM
The carrying capacity of that rocket would not allow for any communications satellite of any usefulness to be placed into an orbit. At best they could have maybe done something like sputnik.

Additionally it was not launched into an orbit insertion trajectory, but something more akin to a test where the rocket would arc back to earth, while the third stage was activating.

Jens
2009-Apr-06, 03:41 AM
Additionally it was not launched into an orbit insertion trajectory...

That's sort of what I wanted to know. Which means that saying that the "missile failed to reach orbit" is sort of wrong, isn't it? To me, "failure" sounds like there was an attempt in the first place.

sarongsong
2009-Apr-06, 05:24 AM
Anyone attempting to recover the remains, I wonder?

Jens
2009-Apr-06, 05:37 AM
Anyone attempting to recover the remains, I wonder?

I doubt anyone would be that interested. Those with the capability to mount that kind of a recovery effort in the Pacific (the US, Russia, Japan, China, principally) would not be much interested in the technology. So all they would get is demonstration that the DPRK actually launched something, which we all know already.

tusenfem
2009-Apr-06, 07:12 AM
i doubt if North Korea [snip] Tokyo or Seoul.



novaderrik, you have been warned in the other thread not to start a political discussions here on the board. Apparently, you are not capable of doing that, so why don't you take a few days off to think about it.

anybody else: This is and Astronomy-Universe board, and not a political discussion forum. So, this stops here.

Larry Jacks
2009-Apr-06, 12:47 PM
Just as a question (trying to skirt the political issues), how common is it for orbital shots to go wrong and end up crashing?

It happens from time to time. SpaceX had 3 failures before their first success with the Falcon 1. The first Ariane V failed to achieve orbit. Boeing lost 2 out of 3 with their abortive Delta III despite decades of experience. India had several failures in their space program as well. We just lost the OCO satellite a few weeks ago when the payload shroud failed to separate.

Additionally it was not launched into an orbit insertion trajectory, but something more akin to a test where the rocket would arc back to earth, while the third stage was activating.

I have not seen anything that discussed the rocket's trajectory. Based on my experience at the Cobra Dane, I know a missile trajectory looks quite different from an orbital trajectory. I'd love to see any links that discuss the trajectory if anyone has them.

Doodler
2009-Apr-06, 03:30 PM
Its showing progress, if anything. The first launch sputtered and died after a minute. This time, the first stage appears to have functioned normally.

Ara Pacis
2009-Apr-07, 05:07 AM
The carrying capacity of that rocket would not allow for any communications satellite of any usefulness to be placed into an orbit. At best they could have maybe done something like sputnik.

What about a kilogram or so for a payload of one mylar bag and a capsule of gas with which to inflate it? That would get them a bonofide echo-style communications satellite.

BetaDust
2009-Apr-07, 07:28 AM
From CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com)

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- A nonprofit institution that focuses on stopping the spread of nuclear weapons on Monday night released what appears to be satellite images of North Korea's rocket in flight. More... (http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/asiapcf/04/07/nk.rocket/index.html)

Haibara
2009-Apr-08, 01:02 AM
http://i0.sinaimg.cn/dy/w/p/2009-04-07/U2418P1T1D17563300F1394DT20090408082214.jpg

http://i0.sinaimg.cn/dy/w/p/2009-04-07/U1831P1T1D17563300F21DT20090407222224.jpg

N. Korea released a 5 second long video of the launch today..

Rue
2009-Apr-08, 01:34 AM
Launch Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qDREg34dw4&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fnews%2Egoogle%2Ecom%2Fnews%3Fpz% 3D1%26ned%3Dus%26hl%3Den%26q%3Dnorth%2Bkorea%2Bmis sile&feature=player_embedded) << Associated Press channel @ Youtube

novaderrik
2009-Apr-08, 08:58 AM
are they still claiming that the satellite made it to orbit and is now broadcasting the North Korean national anthem and other patriotic songs? i know the day after the launch they were saying that, but i was unable to ask this question here because, well, i was unable to ask that question here...
i have my doubts, but still, if they are claiming it, i'm sure someone is listening for it.
is there any independent tracking of this thing- like the amateurs of the world did with Apollo and every other space mission ever launched?

Jens
2009-Apr-08, 10:14 AM
i have my doubts, but still, if they are claiming it, i'm sure someone is listening for it.


I was watching some news show here (in Japan) and somebody tried to listen on the supposed frequency, but heard nothing. In any case, it was tracked apparently as falling into the ocean, so not much to listen for. I think it's probably for domestic consumption anyway. It would be easy enough to set up land-based transmission stations to broadcast on the proper frequency. . .

djellison
2009-Apr-08, 01:48 PM
http://www.digitalglobe.com/downloads/featured_images/musudan_ri_coast_april5_2009_dgl.jpg

http://www.digitalglobe.com/downloads/featured_images/musudan_ri_ov_april5_2009_dgl.jpg

You can see the plume, and indeed trace a heat plume back to near the launch site ( at the bottom left of the larger image )

Perhaps that flare at the end of the plume is the vehicle failing.

CJSF
2009-Apr-08, 02:31 PM
The flare is most likely an artifact due to both oversaturation of the detectors and the relationship between satellite and rocket motion. The sensor is a push-broom scanner that collects a single strip of pixels at a specific rate and builds swaths or strips of imagery as it goes. The rocket would be moving relative to this, and smear or stretch out in the images. The rocket exhaust almost surely is overloading the detectors with photons, causing charges to "spill over" into adjacent detectors, causing a flare in the imagery. It also appears that the collection was done at a fairly steep look-angle, which can further distort the objects in the scene. This can exacerbate the motion problems as well.

Awesome that the satellite was near enough to slew and take this picture, though.

CJSF