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Superluminal
2003-Dec-25, 02:17 AM
Less than an hour to go until touch down. Good luck Beagle 2.

Ian Goddard
2003-Dec-25, 04:16 AM
Mars Express web streaming (http://www.esa.int/export/esaCP/SEMPE8374OD_index_0.html)

I'm dreaming of a Red Christmas!

Ian Goddard
2003-Dec-25, 06:01 AM
BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/3344693.stm): "The British-built spacecraft Beagle 2 is believed to have touched down on the surface of the planet Mars. Scientists are awaiting confirmation..."

sol_g2v
2003-Dec-25, 06:30 AM
From BBC, Scientists fail to pick up an initial signal from Beagle2...

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2003-Dec-25, 06:36 AM
From BBC, Scientists fail to pick up an initial signal from Beagle2...

Oh NO!

Planet X, strikes again. [-X

Postmortem
2003-Dec-25, 08:51 AM
hmm not good, I hope everything is ok, I was so dissappointed when those NASA probes failed, I really hope Beagle 2 made it ok, as far as I am concerned anything that teaches us more about the red planet is a good thing, so let's all keep our fingers crossed and hope for the best

Glom
2003-Dec-25, 11:26 AM
:cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:

Eroica
2003-Dec-25, 11:27 AM
Beagle Update. (http://www.beagle2.com/news/index.htm)

The next window to receive confirmation that Beagle 2 has successfully landed and survived its first night on Mars will be between 10 pm and midnight (GMT) tonight, when its simple carrier signal (rather than the tune composed by Blur) may be picked up by Jodrell Bank radio observatory in Cheshire, UK. This has a much greater chance of success because the giant telescope is able to scan the entire side of the planet facing the Earth.

John Kierein
2003-Dec-25, 01:13 PM
Maybe Ball Aerospace will see it. They built the HiRISE instrument.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/space/20031223/sc_space/whateverhappenedtomarspolarlanderusspyagenciesmigh tknow&e=4&ncid=

Glom
2003-Dec-25, 03:27 PM
WHY...

MUST...

WE FAIL...

AT EVERY...

ATTEMPT...

AT SPACE TRAVEL!!!!!!!!!

:x :cry: :x :cry: :x :cry: :x :cry: :x :cry: :x :cry: :x

Normandy6644
2003-Dec-25, 05:36 PM
Don't lose the faith yet! There may be hope!

peter channon
2003-Dec-25, 07:34 PM
Gutted.....absolutely gutted. I think i nearly cried this morning as news got more and more dire. Oh Beagle tells us you are O.K.

Pete

Diamond
2003-Dec-25, 08:12 PM
Is this a good time to say "I told you so"?

dvb
2003-Dec-25, 08:22 PM
*crosses fingers and toes*

Please be safe beagle2. :o

siriusastronomer
2003-Dec-25, 10:34 PM
Maybe it was still just getting its "mars-legs" hopefully it'll tell us how its doing!!!

stelmosfire
2003-Dec-25, 10:58 PM
C'mon, pooch--roll over, sit up, and speak! Here's a nice juicy Milkbone . . . .

peter channon
2003-Dec-25, 11:02 PM
Beagle where r u.
Where is the live link to whats happening

Is it Jodrell Bank thats gonna see it first?

Pete

mutley
2003-Dec-25, 11:10 PM
theres is no coverage peter.
They said that they will post any news on the website first, otherwise have to wait till boxing day press conference.

Ian Goddard
2003-Dec-25, 11:22 PM
There might still be an outside chance Beagle 2 will phone home.

Anyone know why Mars-landing craft can't be designed to maneuver themselves to an ideal landing site? For example, why not have helicopter landing craft that can hover close to the surface and scan with sonar or something to allow them to look for an ideal smooth area? Is the Martian atmosphere too thin? Then what about thrusters? Seems to me a big problem is the "drop and pray" method of landing. Seems like an incredibly archaic landing strategy for such high-tech operations, assuming I understand how it's done. Perhaps variable wind conditions would render such unmanned maneuvering no better than the "drop and pray" method. Any ideas?

stelmosfire
2003-Dec-25, 11:23 PM
Here's (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/marsexpress/status.html) one site which is giving updates. We're right in the middle of the window during which Jodrell Bank is listening for Beagle; there should be an update in the next 1-2 hours.

Ian Goddard
2003-Dec-25, 11:34 PM
We're right in the middle of the window during which Jodrell Bank is listening for Beagle; there should be an update in the next 1-2 hours.
Jodrell Bank Observatory: http://www.jb.man.ac.uk

peter channon
2003-Dec-25, 11:36 PM
Jodrell Bank, give us the good news.........

Ive got this feeling she burnt up. I diddnt like the sound of those heat shields. Why diddnt they stick to something used before.

Pete

stelmosfire
2003-Dec-25, 11:43 PM
"THURSDAY, DECEMBER 25, 2003
2320 GMT (6:20 p.m. EST)

The Jodrell Bank Observatory in the United Kingdom should have acquired a signal from the Beagle 2 lander by this time. The massive radio telescope was expected to start listening for the spacecraft as soon as the Mars landing site rotated into view this evening. However, officials have not yet announced any results."

peter channon
2003-Dec-25, 11:50 PM
http://esa.capcave.com/esa/marsexpress/
http://www.beagle2.com/index.htm


Are these the websites to watch?? Or is there a better one?

Pete

stelmosfire
2003-Dec-25, 11:57 PM
Spaceflightnow.com (http://www.spaceflightnow.com/mars/marsexpress/status.html) seems to be more frequently updated and give more information than the official Beagle 2 site itself does.

Crimson
2003-Dec-26, 12:18 AM
Bad news from the above website:

FRIDAY, DECEMBER 26, 2003
0010 GMT (7:10 p.m. EST Thurs.)

The observing window for the Jodrell Bank telescope has ended for tonight. Officials have not reported any success in hearing from Beagle.

Ian Goddard
2003-Dec-26, 01:16 AM
Officials have not reported any success in hearing from Beagle.
Keep in mind: "Assuming that the signal strength is close to what is expected, a positive confirmation could come soon after, but more analysis of the data may be required if only a very weak signal is present. This might, for example, be a result of the lander being on its side so the signal transmitted to Earth is less than we expect."

So (keeping hope alive) lack of an immediate report from Jodrell Bank may not mean there was no signal.

Source: http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/public/BeagleII.html

johnwitts
2003-Dec-26, 01:23 AM
My understanding was that the lack of signal was expected, that only by good fortune would Beagle 2 end up in the right attitude to lock on the orbiter on the first pass. There is plenty of time. Didn't they give themselves 2 weeks to find it? Did I imagine that..?

Or, Beagle 2 could be the name of the newest impact crater on Mars...

Sever
2003-Dec-26, 01:51 AM
Is it possible it was buried by a storm or it sank in dust?

nebularain
2003-Dec-26, 03:54 AM
First Nazomi fell out of the race. Now Mutley - I mean Beagle (grin?) - seems to be lost.

At least Mars Express seems to be doing OK.

ej145
2003-Dec-26, 04:14 AM
well it seems like the second chance to pick up beagle has come and gone as well. they were going to use ground based telescopes but they still havnt picked it up.

i think we can see now why we arent ready to send people to mars.

The Supreme Canuck
2003-Dec-26, 04:35 AM
As long as we learn from a mistake, nothing is lost. If we learn something from this, it was worth it.

aurora
2003-Dec-26, 04:49 AM
If Beagle 2 is lost (and we won't know for sure for awhile yet, but it doesn't look good), it will be hard to learn from it, since there will be no way to know for sure what went wrong. There are a number of things that could have gone wrong, and I don't think the lander was sending any telemetry during the descent.

It's the same problem NASA had with the last Mars lander, they ended up presuming it crashed because they ran more tests on a backup unit and found a software defect (IIRC). So they think they know what happened but they can't be sure.

sarongsong
2003-Dec-26, 05:18 AM
"..."The units of many apparatuses mounted to the European Mars Express...such as Omega scanner and the spectrometer of the Spicam apparatus were made in Russia. Therefore, our experts will also take part in assessing the results of the Mars studies," the Rosaviakosmos (Russian Aviation and Space Agency) spokesman said.
The Mars Express was orbited on July 2 by a Russian Soyuz rocket carrier with a Frigate boost unit..."
http://newsfromrussia.com/science/2003/12/25/51923.html

man on the moon
2003-Dec-26, 09:36 AM
My understanding was that the lack of signal was expected, that only by good fortune would Beagle 2 end up in the right attitude to lock on the orbiter on the first pass. There is plenty of time. Didn't they give themselves 2 weeks to find it? Did I imagine that..?

not unless we both imagined the same thing. i read that article on cnn.com, then it was taken out and replaced with the one saying no signal had been recieved.

iirc, the orbiter would have to be very fortunate to recieve signal on the first pass. goodness, i was at glp, and they went nuts in the first FIVE MINUTES...sorry, don't mean to yell. they really irritated me that time.

if it were blown of course or (upside down?) by the wind or landed on the side of a hill or so the angle would be all wrong, so yeah. i had remembered ten days but two weeks sounds reasonable amount of time for contact.

what if it got stuck upside down between two rocks and couldn't unfurl? that would really stink. go half a billion miles (sarcastically) and spend half a billion dollars (also sarcastic) just to get a pinch flat between two rocks...


Or, Beagle 2 could be the name of the newest impact crater on Mars...



let's hope not!

mutley
2003-Dec-26, 02:08 PM
should beagle be lost, one can but hope that we can still take advantage of the work that went into its development.
Beagle 2 was an afterthought for mars express, which is why so little mass was allowed.
I know that colin has said that a beagle 3 wouldnt necessarily be any cheaper, but they would have a very good basis to start again from.
My hope is that a new mission will be made, but this time with a lander as an integeral part of the mission objectives.
Give a beagle 3 an extra 20kg of mass and the chances of success would be hugely increased.
Quite apart from anything else, its this aspect of planetary exploration that captures the imagination of the public, and therefore assists in its funding.
Even a lost hound is getting people interested and excited in space science.

Diamond
2003-Dec-26, 02:47 PM
should beagle be lost, one can but hope that we can still take advantage of the work that went into its development.
Beagle 2 was an afterthought for mars express, which is why so little mass was allowed.
I know that colin has said that a beagle 3 wouldnt necessarily be any cheaper, but they would have a very good basis to start again from.
My hope is that a new mission will be made, but this time with a lander as an integeral part of the mission objectives.
Give a beagle 3 an extra 20kg of mass and the chances of success would be hugely increased.
Quite apart from anything else, its this aspect of planetary exploration that captures the imagination of the public, and therefore assists in its funding.
Even a lost hound is getting people interested and excited in space science.

Sorry, but there's a limit to how excited you can get by delivering a pile of junk to the Martian surface.

mutley
2003-Dec-26, 02:53 PM
i dont believe i put forward your name as one of those getting excited...should i specifically name you as an an exclusion in future posts?

siriusastronomer
2003-Dec-26, 09:31 PM
oh god....they didn't happen to use both english and metric units while designing it did that?? deja vu ;-) wait...no....that's something only us americans could pull off....

Espritch
2003-Dec-26, 10:56 PM
oh god....they didn't happen to use both english and metric units while designing it did that?? deja vu wait...no....that's something only us americans could pull off....

U.S.A! U.S.A!...oh wait. That's not neccessarily a good thing... :P


i think we can see now why we arent ready to send people to mars.

It isn't just a matter of technology, it's a matter of budget. The Beagle was built on a shoestring (relatively speaking). This is the same bargain basement philosophy that may have helped the U.S. lose two probes in a row not long ago. I should hope that if we do send a manned mission, we will be willing to spend enough to insure that it actually gets there a back safely.


There are a number of things that could have gone wrong, and I don't think the lander was sending any telemetry during the descent.

That's the rube of the problem. There isn't any good way to monitor the final descent of a Mars probe. And even if you could, the time delay for signals would mean that you couldn't correct a problem even if you detected it. Basically you set the probe on its final descent and then you hold your breath and hope to get a signal indicating all is well. If you don't get the signal, you have no real way to know which of a multitude of things went wrong.

zebo-the-fat
2003-Dec-26, 11:13 PM
It landed ok, then the martians got hold of it and dragged in into their underground city! :^o

Amadeus
2003-Dec-26, 11:34 PM
And now the end is near............................ :-({|=

sigh.............................

R.I.P. Beagle2 :(

stelmosfire
2003-Dec-26, 11:54 PM
The Martians got it, just like they got Mars 3 (http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~marcsulf/html/mars3land.html) 20 seconds after it started its first transmission.

sarongsong
2003-Dec-27, 03:58 AM
L.A. Times:
A Fatal Attraction in Space
"...an unseen monster that gobbles up spacecraft for lunch...It's no wonder that space scientists have nicknamed Mars the 'Death Planet'..."
http://makeashorterlink.com/?Z132136E6

Jack Higgins
2003-Dec-27, 11:00 PM
The Martians got it, just like they got Mars 3 (http://www.ugcs.caltech.edu/~marcsulf/html/mars3land.html) 20 seconds after it started its first transmission.

That's what happens when you send a close replica of your previous lunar landers (http://nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov/database/MasterCatalog?sc=1966-116A) to mars... #-o


http://makeashorterlink.com
I'm still not convinced... :wink:

Amadeus
2003-Dec-28, 05:16 PM
I know I might be stupid in saying this but don't we have any telescopes capable of looking for beagle on the surface? We know the general area it should be and its about 2 metres across with a parachute we might pick up something....

Come on, we should be throwing everything the planet has to offer at this to solve the problem.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hang in there Beagle...... :(

Eroica
2003-Dec-28, 05:23 PM
=; Don't panic! Don't panic!









(Well, at least not till January 5. Then you can panic!)

ToSeek
2003-Dec-28, 06:28 PM
I know I might be stupid in saying this but don't we have any telescopes capable of looking for beagle on the surface? We know the general area it should be and its about 2 metres across with a parachute we might pick up something....



I think Mars Global Surveyor's narrow-angle camera is the best bet, but they tried to use that to find the Mars Polar Lander a couple of years ago, without success.

No telescope on Earth has anything near the capability to pick out a Mars lander.

Amadeus
2003-Dec-28, 07:01 PM
No telescope on Earth has anything near the capability to pick out a Mars lander.

What about Hubble?

Jack Higgins
2003-Dec-28, 10:55 PM
I think Mars Global Surveyor's narrow-angle camera is the best bet, but they tried to use that to find the Mars Polar Lander a couple of years ago, without success.

No telescope on Earth has anything near the capability to pick out a Mars lander.

It will be impossible for MGS or even Mars Express itself to find Beagle... Why?

If it landed okay, it'll be a tad smaller than Pathfinder, which MGS tried and failed to pick out, even though the landing site was known exactly
If it landed but didn't open, it'll be 1/4 of the size above
If the heat shield failed to jettison, or if the parachutes didn't deploy, and beagle crashed and left a crater, it'll probably be so far off course that it will be impossible to actually find the crater, given the huge area it could have happened in...

I'm still hoping that beagle is ok- i'm not saying it is lost, just that we won't be able to see it on the surface!

We'll have to wait until 2005 and the MRO (http://mars.jpl.nasa.gov/mro/) for that... :)

Russell
2003-Dec-28, 11:10 PM
Hello:
When you guys talk of the martians taking it you need to realize there is only one Martian, Marvin. We have made him very angry. Now he is going to blow up the earth; it obstrucks his view of Venus.

I would really like to hear from Beagle, I was really looking forward to its science.

Amadeus
2003-Dec-29, 03:18 AM
No signal received via Odyssey. :(

Could it have been damaged by that solar flare we had a few months back?