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EmeraldKing
2009-May-15, 01:17 AM
Hello Everyone,

I have a single questions about one of the passages in the appendix. Under Mathematical Formula page 248 paragraph 1.

"To find the Obliquity of the Ecliptic. Obliquity = 23 deg 27' 2.8.26" - 46.837 T - 0.0085 T squared + 0.0017 T cubed. Where T is the time from 1900 reckoned in centuries, being negative if earlier and positive if later.

example. required the obliquity for 1923. Here T is positive and less that unity, being 23/100 or .23, T cubed will therefore be 0.0529, and T squared, 0.012167.
then 46.837" X (+.23) = -10.77251
- 0.0085 X (+.0529) = -.00045
+ 0.0017 X (+.012167) = +0.00002
______________________________
= - 10.77294

My question is what does the 46.837 mean? where does it come from?

Thank you for your Time
EK

PraedSt
2009-May-15, 09:38 AM
"To find the Obliquity of the Ecliptic. Obliquity = 23 deg 27' 2.8.26" - 46.837 T - 0.0085 T squared + 0.0017 T cubed. Where T is the time from 1900 reckoned in centuries, being negative if earlier and positive if later.

example. required the obliquity for 1923. Here T is positive and less that unity, being 23/100 or .23, T cubed will therefore be 0.0529, and T squared, 0.012167.
then 46.837" X (+.23) = -10.77251
- 0.0085 X (+.0529) = -.00045
+ 0.0017 X (+.012167) = +0.00002
______________________________
= - 10.77294

My question is what does the 46.837 mean? where does it come from?
EK
I think you know this, but just to be sure: - 10.77294 is not the 'required obliquity for 1923'. You have to add it to 23 deg 27' 2.8.26" to get the final value.

To answer your question, 46.837, 0.0085 and 0.0017 are coefficients. They come from trying to fit your equation with the actual values of tilt as obtained from observation and measurement.

So what 46.837 'means' is that if you plug in 46.837 into your equation, you get the best answer.

Look up 'curve fitting'.

Hope this helps.

EmeraldKing
2009-May-20, 03:22 PM
Thanks so much now it makes sense.

EmeraldKing
2009-May-20, 03:25 PM
1). On page 26, under the Andromeda is show Aries 12, Taurus 15, 20N, 55N, can anyone tell me what that means. I think the Aries 12 is pointing us to the Right Ascension but the Taurus 15 is off the Declination by 7.5 degrees for its declination is 37 degrees, but what I am confused the most by is the 20N and 55N they cant be Longitude and Latitude if they were it would need to be E-W for the Longitude.

Thank You
EK

fifelad55
2009-May-22, 04:24 PM
1). On page 26, under the Andromeda is show Aries 12, Taurus 15, 20N, 55N, can anyone tell me what that means. I think the Aries 12 is pointing us to the Right Ascension but the Taurus 15 is off the Declination by 7.5 degrees for its declination is 37 degrees, but what I am confused the most by is the 20N and 55N they cant be Longitude and Latitude if they were it would need to be E-W for the Longitude.

Thank You
EK

I don't have the book, but Taurus. being one of the Zodiacal constellations has a declination of around + 20 degrees.

According to astrologers, I am a Gemini because I was born on 8th June, yet on 8th June, the Sun will actually be in Taurus, about 6 degrees from Aldebarran.

Astrologers, if there are any here, please explain.

Alan

Gillianren
2009-May-22, 04:32 PM
I am assuredly not an astrologer, but what I can tell you is that what time is defined by what "sign" was set a long time ago. It doesn't change, even though where the Sun is on any given day does.

PraedSt
2009-May-22, 04:44 PM
1). On page 26, under the Andromeda is show Aries 12, Taurus 15, 20N, 55N, can anyone tell me what that means.
Sorry EK, I can't actually understand this. Is this on a diagram? Or is it a sentence in the text? We don't have the book you see, so if you could quote the passage exactly (with acknowledgment) that would be a big help.

fifelad55
2009-May-22, 05:01 PM
I am assuredly not an astrologer, but what I can tell you is that what time is defined by what "sign" was set a long time ago. It doesn't change, even though where the Sun is on any given day does.

I know that, which is why I am challenging astrologers to explain why I am allegedly a Gemini rather than a Taurus. I do know though, that this is not the place to ask such questions. :lol:

Alan

Edit in

I've just joined as astrology forum. I wonder how long it takes them to ban me as a member, especially when I start asking really awkward questions. lol

Gillianren
2009-May-22, 09:01 PM
I know that, which is why I am challenging astrologers to explain why I am allegedly a Gemini rather than a Taurus. I do know though, that this is not the place to ask such questions. :lol:

Well, no. But I think the obvious answer is, do you change it every year? Do you change it when it's a major difference? Who decides when it's a major difference? Oh, I agree it's wrong, and I agree it's only one of many problems with astrology, but it's one of the smallest and easiest-explained.

EmeraldKing
2009-May-23, 12:04 AM
Here is that page, and in the book it lists each constellation in a similar manner, some of one N/S and one E/W but other have 2 N or 2 S. Which is why it is confusing to me.

Any help would be really great!
Thanks
EK

EmeraldKing
2009-May-23, 03:02 AM
Can anyone see the jpg?

Thanks
EK

Hornblower
2009-May-23, 08:41 AM
Can anyone see the jpg?

Thanks
EK

I can see the image just fine, but I can only guess at what the numbers mean. My best guess, from looking at Andromeda on my Norton Star Atlas charts, is that they are the approximate western and eastern extremities of the constellation in degrees of ecliptic longitude, and the southern and northern extremities in degrees of ecliptic latitude. Andromeda is entirely north of the ecliptic, while some constellations straddle it in latitude. Please give us the numbers for the constellations that confuse you, so I can analyze them as I did for Andromeda.

I am assuming that Aries 12 means 12 degrees of ecliptic longitude from the First Point of Aries, and that Taurus 15 means 15 degrees into the sign of Taurus, or 45 degrees from the First Point.

Hornblower
2009-May-23, 08:55 AM
I know that, which is why I am challenging astrologers to explain why I am allegedly a Gemini rather than a Taurus. I do know though, that this is not the place to ask such questions. :lol:

Alan

Edit in

I've just joined as astrology forum. I wonder how long it takes them to ban me as a member, especially when I start asking really awkward questions. lol
It appears to me that the astrologers are interested only in the ecliptic longitudes of the Sun and the planets as measured from the March equinox point, regardless of the background stars. Each sign of the zodiac is a 30-degree sector that was roughly aligned with a constellation of the same name about 2200 years ago. Precession has displaced them about 30 degrees since then. Thus I am a Pisces, even though the Sun was inside the modern boundaries of Aquarius on my date of birth.

PraedSt
2009-May-23, 02:06 PM
Here is that page, and in the book it lists each constellation in a similar manner, some of one N/S and one E/W but other have 2 N or 2 S. Which is why it is confusing to me.
I can see why that's confusing. Hornblower maybe on the right track- the numbers outline the boundaries of the constellation. But a couple more would be useful, just to check. A sample of one is not enough! :)

Also, it doesn't say anywhere in the book what it means? At the start? In the index?

EmeraldKing
2009-May-23, 04:26 PM
Hello everyone,

Here is the rest of them
Andromeda The Chained Woman Aries 12 Taurus 15 20N 55N
Antinous Capricorns 13 Aquarius 10 8N 13 S
Antila Pneumatica The Air Pump Virgo 0 Libra 0 30S 43S
Apus The Bird of Paradise Sagittarius 0 Sagittarius 25 75S 80S
Aquarius The Waterman Aquarius 9 Pisces 26 5N 30S
Aquila The Eagle Capricorns 12 Aquarius 15 22N 13S
Ara The Altar Sagittarius 10 Capricorns 0 47S 65S
Argo Navis The Ship Argo Cancer 10 Libra 20 15S 65S
Aries The Ram Aries 18 Taurus 20 0N 27N
Auriga The Charioteer Gemini 10 Cancer 3 30N 60N
Bootes The Herdsman Virgo 27 Scorpio 7 10N 55N
Celum The Graving Tool Taurus 12 Gemini 15 35S 50S
Camelopardalis The Giraffe Gemini 2 Cancer 15 53N 90N
Cancer The Crab Cancer 22 Leo 17 2N 40N
Canes Venatici The hunting Dogs Virgo 10 Libra 5 30N 50N
Canis Major The Greater Dog Cancer 0 Leo 0 15S 40S
Canis Major The Lesser Dog Cancer 18 Cancer 28 1N 10N
Capricorns The Goat ? 25 Aquarius 22 10S 35S
Cassiopeia The Seated Woman Aries 25 Gemini 0 50N 70N
Centaurus The Centaur Libra 2 Scorpio 28 28S 68S
Cepheus Pisces 17 Cancer 0 55N 85N
Cerberus Sagittarius 20 Capricorns 5 16N 38N
Cetus The Whale or Sea Monster Pisces 17 Taurus 13 10N 30S
Chameleon Scorpio 12 Sagittarius 3 75S 80S
Circinus The Compasses Scorpio 29 Sagittarius 10 55S 65S
Columba Noe Noah's Dove Gemini 5 Cancer 17 27S 43S
Coma Berenices Berenice's Hair Scorpio 17 Libra 12 25N 31N
Corona Australis The Southern Crown Capricorns 2 Capricorns 12 36S 45S
Corona Borealis The Northern Crown Scorpio 2 Scorpio 17 27N 33N
Corvus The Crow Libra 5 Libra 15 7S 25S
Crater The Cup Virgo 13 Libra 3 5S 23S
Crux The Cross Scorpio 2 Scorpio 12 56S 65S
Custos Messuim The Harvest Keeper Taurus 20 Gemini 10 70N 77N
Cygnus The Swan Capricorns 28 Pisces 28 28N 55N
Delphinus The Dolphin Aquarius 8 Aquarius 19 3N 19N
Dorado The Goldfish Aries 0 Gemini 0 48S 67S
Draco The Dragon 63N 81N
Equuleus The Foal Aquarius 19 Aquarius 28 0N 12N
Equuleus Pictoris The Painter's Easel Gemini 0 Virgo 5 45S 65S
Eridanus The River Pisces 15 Gemini 0 0S 55S
Felis The Cat Leo 28 Virgo 15 15S 25S
Fornax Chemica The Chemical Furnace Aries 10 Taurus 13 26S 40S
Frederici Honores The Honours of Frederick Aries 2 Aries 20 41N 52N
Gemini The Twins Cancer 1 Cancer 23 13N 35N
Globus Aerostaticus The Balloon Aquarius 9 Aquarius 16 26S 39S
Grus The Crane Aquarius 7 Pisces 0 37S 56S
Hercules The Kneeling Man Libra 28 Capricorns 2 5N 53N
Horologium Oscillatorium The Pendulum Clock Pisces 5 Taurus 14 44S 67S
Hydra The Water Snake Leo 5 Scorpio 23 10N 36S
Hydrus The Snake Capricorns 5 Pisces 7 62S 86S
Indus The Indian Capricorns 12 Aquarius 12 45S 77S
Lacerta The Lizard Pisces 18 Aries 5 35N 50N
Leo The Lion Leo 12 Virgo 22 0N 34N
Leo Minor The Lesser Lion Leo 10 Virgo 7 27N 45N
Lepus The Hare Gemini 5 Cancer 3 14S 25S
Libra The Balance or Scales Scorpio 7 Scorpio 28 7S 24S
Lupus The Wolf Scorpio 15 Sagittarius 7 34S 57S
Lynx The Lynx Cancer 0 Leo 9 36N 64N
Lyra The Lyre Capricorns 10 Capricorns 29 28N 47N
Machina Electrica The Electrical Machine Pisces 25 Aries 14 28S 42S
Microsopium The Microscope Aquarius 0 Aquarius 6 30S 47S
Monoceros The Unicorn Cancer 0 Leo 16 13N 23S
Mons Maenalus Mount Maenalus Libra 12 Libra 28 10N 18N
Mons Mensae The Table Mountain Sagittarius 10 Aquarius 15 72S 86S
Musca Australis The Southern Fly Scorpio 10 Scorpio 25 66S 74S
Musca Borealis The Northern Fly Taurus 12 Taurus 20 25N 33N
Noctua The Night Owl Scorpio 6 Scorpio 20 17S 30S
Norma Et Regula The Level and Square Sagittarius 2 Sagittarius 15 36S 60S
Nubecula Major The Greater Cloud Gemini 4 Cancer 0 65S 75S
Nubecula Minor The Lesser Cloud Aries 15 Taurus 4 72S 77S
Octans Hadleianus Hadleys Octant Sagittarius 10 Aquarius 0 75S 90S
Officina Typographica The Printing Office Cancer 20 Leo 10 9S 22S
Ophiuchus Or Serpentarius The Serpent Bearer Scorpio 27 Capricorns 27 18N 24S
Orion The Giant or Hunter Gemini 6 Cancer 2 24N 13S
Pavo The Peacock Sagittarius 25 Capricorns 25 59S 77S
Pegasus The Flying Horse Aquarius 27 Aries 10 3N 36N
Perseus The Champion Taurus 12 Gemini 8 30N 62N
Phonenix The Phoneix Aquarius 18 Aries 2 42S 60S
Pisces The Fishes Pisces 15 Aries 26 0N 32N
Pisces Australis The Southern Fish Aquarius 15 Pisces 5 28S 36S
Piscis Volans The Flying Fish Virgo 20 Sagittarius 0 63S 74S
Psalterium Georgianum George's Harp Taurus 14 Taurus 27 0S 15S
Pyxis Nautica The Mariners Compass Leo 19 Virgo 3 25S 36S
Quadrans Muralis The Mural Quadrant Libra 0 Scorpio 0 47N 57N
Reticulum Rhomboidalis The Rhomboidal Net Pisces 8 Aries 22 57S 70S
Robur Carolinum Charles Oak Virgo 25 Libra 12 46S 54S
Sagitta The Arrow Capricorns 17 Aquarius 9 15N 22N
Sagittarius The Archer Sagittarius 28 Aquarius 1 20S 50S
Sceptrum Brandenburgicum The Branden-berg Secpter Gemini 0 Gemini 4 7S 31S
Scorpio The Scorpion Scorpio 23 Sagittarius 26 7S 46S
Sculptor The Sculptor's Workshop Pisces 4 Pisces 28 30S 44S
Scutum Sobiescianum Sobieski's Shield Capricorns 1 Capricorns 11? 5S 17S
Serpens The Serpent Scorpio 13 Capricorns 15 26N 17S
Sextans Uraniae The Sextant of Urania Leo 22 Virgo 10 7N 8S
Tarandus The Reindeer Taurus 23 Cancer 0 74N 90N
Taurus The Bull Taurus 17 Gemini 23 34N 2S
Taurus Poniatovii Poniatowski's Bull Sagittarius 24 Capricorns 17 11N 5S
Telescopium The Telescope Sagittarius 24 Capricorns 15 36S 59S
Telescopium Herschelii Herschel's Telescope Cancer 5 Cancer 16 35N 47N
Triangulum The Triangle Taurus 4 Taurus 13 30N 37N
Triangulum Minor The Lesser Triangle Taurus 6 Taurus 12 28N 33N
Triangulum Australe The Southern Triangle Sagittarius 5 Sagittarius 22 61S 71S
Tucana The Toucan Aquarius 6 Aquarius 27 60S 72S
Ursa Major The Greater Bear Cancer 10 Virgo 27 33N 73N
Ursa Minor The Lesser Bear Cancer 0 Virgo 7 69N 90N
Via Lactea The Milky Way Gemini 21 Cancer 1 *Crosses Ecliptic at
Via Lactea The Milky Way Sagittarius 12 Sagittarius 20 *Crosses Ecliptic at
Via Lactea The Milky Way Sagittarius 29 Capricorns 6 *Crosses Ecliptic at
Virgo The Virgin Virgo 20 Scorpio 6 16N 15S
Vulpecula Et Anser The Fox & Goose Capricorns 24 Pisces 4 20N 30N

Sorry for the formating

Not the book doesn't explain the numbers or what they mean. I think it was written in the early 1900's so no "dummies" book structure.

And the clue to confirm this might be in the notes of Via Lactea where it says crosses the Ecliptic at.

What does the the N/S degrees mean then?

Thanks for all the help
EK

Hornblower
2009-May-24, 01:10 AM
Thanks for the full transcript. The north/south numbers appear to be the declinations in degrees of the extremities of the constellations with respect to the equator. In some cases they are only rough approximations, many degrees from the modern boundaries of the constellations as adopted in 1930. Before then the boundaries of many constellations were not fixed with any certainty.

PraedSt
2009-May-24, 01:15 AM
Hello everyone,

Here is the rest of them
EK
Woah! I said a couple more would do! :lol:

Still, looks like Hornblower has solved your problem.

I can't stop laughing...

EmeraldKing
2009-May-24, 01:09 PM
Thank you everyone for clearing this up for me.

You have been a big help :)

Thanks
EK