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View Full Version : Spherical object seen on Martian surface, hirise image.



vk3ukf
2009-May-21, 02:02 AM
I was searching for the Soviet Mars 3 lander, when into view comes a large white spherical object, much larger than what I was looking for.

Hirise image PSP_006154_1345
pixel location 5215x2965

Original image.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006154_1345

Close up of obect.
http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars3PSP_006154_1345-001.jpg

http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars3PSP_006154_1345-001.jpg

Any ideas?

PraedSt
2009-May-21, 02:12 AM
Probably a heatshield. One of the rovers' or Phoenix's.

vk3ukf
2009-May-21, 02:20 AM
Hi, I doubt if it is a MER or Phoenix part, they are hundreds and thousands of miles away.

Spacecraft locations.

Mars 3.
45.00° S latitude, 158.00° W longtitude.

Mars 6.
Possible Crash Site of Mars 6 Orbiter/Lander in Samara Vallis.
23.8° S latitude, 340.5° E longitude.

Viking 1.
22.697° N latitude, 48.222° W longtitude.

Viking 2.
48.269° N latitude, 225.990° W longtitude.

MPF.
19.33° N latitude, 33.55° W longtitude.

Mars Climate Orbiter.
Crash site unknown. Entered orbit at 57km instead of 145km.

Beagle 2.
10.6° N latitude, 270° W longitude.

MER Spirit.
14.5718° S latitude, 175.4785° E longitude.

MER Opportunity.
1.95° S latitude, 354.47° E longitude.

Mars Polar Lander + Deep Space 2 penetrators.
76.6° S latitude, 165.2° W longitude.

Phoenix.
68.218830° N latitude, 234.250778° E longitude.


If it is manmade, it is an unlisted part or object.

PraedSt
2009-May-21, 02:27 AM
Yeah, you're right- it's not one of theirs.

What are the coordinates of your thing? The same as Mars 3?

vk3ukf
2009-May-21, 03:08 AM
Yes, The image is at the hirise site, listed as the center of the ellipse for the suggested landing area.

45.00° S latitude, 158.00° W longtitude.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006154_1345

The image is huge.

There are a few things on Mars that have been 'lost'.

a1call
2009-May-21, 03:14 AM
The shadow reveals a shape other than a sphere.
With the sun at 38 degrees above horizon the the feature is about 0.78 times as tall as it's shadow.
The feature looks odd with the details at the edge of resolution and the exaggerated contrast which is typical of Martian images when soil appears unusually (for Earth) bright at direct sun light.
It might not look as odd from a different angle, or with different lighting, or from closer up.

PraedSt
2009-May-21, 03:23 AM
Ask the HiRise team. They're pretty good. :)

a1call
2009-May-21, 04:38 AM
How does the size compare to Mars 3?

To my eyes the general shape is relatively in agreement with this (http://www.kolumbus.fi/jimenez/photos/avaruus2000/mars3_1.jpg).

vk3ukf
2009-May-21, 05:22 AM
Pehaps the aeroshell at the top of the Mars 3 spacecraft is what it may be, the lander itself will be much smaller, enclosed in the aeroshell. Upon landing it should have unfolded its petals, resembling luna 9 in shape.

This object is located near the top left of the image, the actual lander and parachute may be nearby, if it is what I hope it is.

I will have to email the hirise team, they will have better knowledge, maybe even already noted it.

PraedSt
2009-May-21, 05:39 AM
It's a good find. The shadow does suggest a cone, or frustum. Could well be the aeroshell.

From the scale in the original, and your enlargement, can you work out how large the object is?

vk3ukf
2009-May-21, 06:47 AM
These articles at the planetary society give excellent info on the spacecraft on the surface already imaged.

http://www.planetary.org/blog/article/00001428/

and

http://planetary.org/explore/topics/space_missions/mars_reconnaissance_orbiter/hirise_lander_search.html

Regards the size, the object is about 10 pixels across, the resolution is 25cm per pixel or 4 pixels per meter.
That makes it about 2 meters or 6 feet in diameter, If the resolution is better than listed then the object is slighty smaller in size.
I guess it's in the ballpark.


I also sent emails to the hirise team and the planetary society.
Fingers crossed it's something good.

PraedSt
2009-May-21, 01:57 PM
Your object looks similar to the backshells they show. And this was interesting.

Actually, the spacecraft themselves are not the best objects to search for, because they are relatively small. Based on the images of successful landers, the easiest hardware to spot from orbit is a lander's protective backshell and parachute Keep us updated if you can.

vk3ukf
2009-May-21, 03:39 PM
Hi PraedSt, that's encouraging.

I'll wait for the PI's to respond to my email, then flip the reply up here.

I expect it to be (because there is a lot of them) an anomalous rock or lighting.

My fingers are crossed though. :-)

a1call
2009-May-21, 03:44 PM
Hi PraedSt, that's encouraging.

I'll wait for the PI's to respond to my email, then flip the reply up here.

I expect it to be (because there is a lot of them) an anomalous rock or lighting.

My fingers are crossed though. :-)

Be careful about posting emails in entirety. There are board rules against it.

dhd40
2009-May-21, 03:52 PM
I was searching for the Soviet Mars 3 lander, when into view comes a large white spherical object, much larger than what I was looking for.

Hirise image PSP_006154_1345
pixel location 5215x2965

Original image.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006154_1345

Close up of obect.
http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars3PSP_006154_1345-001.jpg

http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars3PSP_006154_1345-001.jpg

Any ideas?

Just a crater, like the small one on top of the image.

JohnD
2009-May-21, 05:58 PM
You've found Beagle II!
John

Jeff Root
2009-May-21, 06:21 PM
vk3ukf,

Which image is the one in which you say the pixel location is 5215 x 2965 ?

The one I looked at, the first link under "JPEG PRODUCTS", is labeled
"Full image (grayscale, map projected)" and the filename suggests that
it was taken with a red filter. That image is less than 2965 pixels wide.

-- Jeff, in Minneapolis

a1call
2009-May-21, 06:26 PM
He seems off line and I had the same issue. It must be one of the 2 .jp2 downloads. I tried downloading the larger one and gave up after a few hours on high speed internet.:mad:

01101001
2009-May-21, 06:41 PM
Which image is the one in which you say the pixel location is 5215 x 2965 ?

I found it with (on the cited HiRISE page (http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006154_1345)):

JP2 QUICKLOOK (IAS Viewer)

in:

Full image (grayscale, non-map projected)

I think that's: http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/iasclient/ares312.jsp?file=PDS/EXTRAS/RDR/PSP/ORB_006100_006199/PSP_006154_1345/PSP_006154_1345_RED.NOMAP.JP2

vk3ukf
2009-May-23, 05:58 AM
Hi 01101001, you are correct, folks, if you are going to try and view spacecraft on the surface, you must use the full size image at 1:1 resolution, you won't see anything in a browse image. Also the IAS viewer is a must, install it and just click on the full size link on the Hirise page and IAS will start and load the image instantly, saves about 6 hours.

Thanks for the tip about posting emails also, I'll translate anything I get.

slang
2009-May-23, 06:32 AM
Thanks for the tip about posting emails also, I'll translate anything I get.

Or just ask permission to publish them.

vk3ukf
2009-May-23, 06:51 AM
Just a crater, like the small one on top of the image.

Hi, the lighting is coming from the lower right, the shadows are cast toward the upper left. The object is above the surface, go and look at the image yourself to confirm. The small crater you point out at the top is a rock.

dhd40
2009-May-24, 09:45 AM
Hi, the lighting is coming from the lower right, the shadows are cast toward the upper left. The object is above the surface, go and look at the image yourself to confirm. The small crater you point out at the top is a rock.

In your

Original image.
http://hirise.lpl.arizona.edu/PSP_006154_1345

the sun comes clearly from the upper left.

If your

Close up of obect.
http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars3PSP_006154_1345-001.jpg

isnīt rotated then also here the sun comes from the upper left.

BTW, I canīt find the "close up of object" in the "original image". Any hints how to go there in the original image?

beethovenspiano
2009-May-25, 09:06 AM
WOW very interesting.

I'd say that was a very strong candidate for the Mars 3 lander parts.

Bynaus
2009-May-25, 03:41 PM
There is a similar-looking object at 5750 x 3773.

Well, if it is a large stone, it is an interesting one...

vk3ukf
2009-May-29, 12:01 AM
@dhd40

It seems that you are correct in the orientation of the image being rotated.

For some reason as yet unknown to me, IAS viewer is showing the image upside down, compared to the image on the PDS webpage view.

So, I am looking at, and making screenshots of, the image upside down.

So it seems.

vk3ukf
2009-May-29, 12:05 AM
But, the images I posted upside down or not, show illumination from the apparent lower right, shadows are clearly stretching toward the upper left. Anyone else?

a1call
2009-May-29, 02:13 AM
Yes the cropped image from the "viewer" is illuminated from the lower right.

Zoom out to verify by large craters in view (Bright crescents on top).

vk3ukf
2009-May-29, 04:59 AM
@dhd40,

Hi again, what I did, I downloaded and installed the IAS viewer. Once that is in your machine, you can click on the link on the Hirise image page that is on the right hand side that says, JP2 QUICKLOOK (IAS VIEWER), this will open under it a menu, you must click on the fulimage grayscale NON map projected image, after a few seconds, IAS viewer will open displaying the image, note, it will be inverted compared to the image you are looking at one the HiRise page. Any other image will be a modification of the original data and the pixel locations may be different. On the left hand side of the IAS viewer are the image pixel co-ordinates, use them to navigate to a pixel location, you can type pixel co-ordinates into the GEO jump and click the button, it should go straight to it.

The IAS viewer will allow you instant access to an image that is near a gig in size, which last time I did it, took me 6 hours to download 1 image.

Hope you find it soon.

@Bynaus
Your object was easy to find, very nearby, also there is another in the opposite direction, go left instead of right, (You've probably already seen it).They seem to be of similar albedo, but like you say, their shape says boulder.

The thing I found is probably just a round boulder, but it is bright as well.
It caught my eye.

vk3ukf
2009-May-29, 02:44 PM
A white star shape.

First, so we can all see the target we are searching for up close.

http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars/MRO/MARS3_LANDER_modA.JPG
http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars/MRO/MARS3_LANDER_modA.JPG

Again, there is only a very slight possibility of it being Mars 3, but.

Object at,
6218x20834
http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars/MRO/Mars3SrchStarObject6218x20834a.jpg
http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars/MRO/Mars3SrchStarObject6218x20834a.jpg

http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars/MRO/Mars3SrchStarObject6218x20834B.jpg
http://www.vk3ukf.com/Mars/MRO/Mars3SrchStarObject6218x20834B.jpg

I never spotted this the first time.

This is the sort of shape I want. Is this it though?

mugaliens
2009-May-29, 05:18 PM
Just a crater, like the small one on top of the image.

Given the shadows, it appears the sun is from the lower-right, making that a rock.