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View Full Version : An act of desperation



Glom
2004-Jan-03, 08:40 PM
That's what Morpheus called the machines attack of Zion in Reloaded. But I have to wonder why Morpheus thinks they're so desperate?

Okay, the hackers intentions are to bring down the Matrix. A Matrix with six billion people in it. And what appears to the means by which they plan to achieve this noble goal? They're going to liberate the prisoners ONE BY ONE. Given what we see of the fields, it is clear that the machines are capable of producing crops far more quickly than the hackers can liberate them. So he thinks they should be desperate for what reason?

Morpheus doesn't know about the cycle of the Matrix. He doesn't know that the attack is the process of ending one cycle and beginning the next. So everything should be face value to him. He's sounds a bit like Ralph Rene. He comes up with some ill reasoned nitpick and thinks he's brought down all of NASA.

But in a broader sense, we have to wonder what the hacker in general are planning. Maybe Morpheus believes in some miracle that will end the Matrix. But what of the others? How do they plan on defeating the Matrix? Surely someone must have released this plan isn't getting them anyway other than pissing off the machines.

Glom
2005-Apr-10, 10:40 PM
Hey, I forgot about this post. Nobody had anything to say?

Are you saying that the plot to the Matrix trilogy makes no sense? :-k

WaxRubiks
2005-Apr-11, 12:20 AM
The bit about turning human bodies into batteries didn't make sense...

I think they didn't put much thought into that.

"combined with a type of fussion"?!!!! What was that supposed to mean? You don't need human bodies to make fussion happen, you just need heavy water.

I think they could have put more thought into this, or did they cover that in the last film(which I haven't seen)?

Fortis
2005-Apr-11, 03:42 AM
At the end of the 2nd film I thought, "I have this sussed." The scenario that worked was that the Matrix was actually part of a meta-Matrix, along with Zion. That was what the architect was rambling on about. The system knew that some humans would twig that they were wandering around some vast VR simulation and try to escape. Once they've escaped into what they think of as the real world and find themselves in the middle of a war, then they not only won't be looking for the flaws, they won't even have the time to stop and consider what was going on. Of course every now and then the Zion sub-program has to be reset because the Zion scenario can only go on for so long before it would become so silly that even the inhabitants would work out what was going on.

This all made sense to me, and explained how Smith could get into the "real world", as well as how Neo could affect the machines in the real world (because he was still in the simulation.) It also fitted in with other bits and pieces (the architect for example.)

Then they went and blew it with the 3rd film. :)

mickal555
2005-Apr-11, 03:54 AM
I never got the matrix

I still don't

Can someone please explain?

Jpax2003
2005-Apr-11, 05:15 AM
Some of the talk I've heard suggests that the machine's claim that people are a for of power is bunk. The idea is that the machines were made by humanity to serve humanity and this is a deranged attempt to save humanity. What little power, if any, they extract from humans is incidental. Essentially, all their power is from fusion.

WaxRubiks
2005-Apr-11, 05:27 AM
I thought, a while back, after watching The Matrix that that would be a good way to cross interstellar space.
The traditional way in Scifi films like Alien is for the crew to be in hibernation. Where as it might be possible to have a crew of millions not in a sleep but plugged, permanently into a VR world, where they could live and work without the constraint of space and the lack of gravity.
There really isn't the need to build huge ships as in Rama(A.C.Clarke), you could support a much bigger crew in even greater comfort by just having them lying in matrix type gunk baths fed by tubes.
Best way to get to the stars..

WaxRubiks
2005-Apr-11, 05:31 AM
The film itself.

I thought the best explanation for the film(logic wise) would be that the "robot" computers were just trying to obey an Asimov(Laws of robotics) set of laws the best way it could while at the same time doing its own thing. ie taking over the world without harming mankind. They should have use this as the reason for the matrix.

papageno
2005-Apr-11, 10:11 AM
Okay, the hackers intentions are to bring down the Matrix. A Matrix with six billion people in it. And what appears to the means by which they plan to achieve this noble goal? They're going to liberate the prisoners ONE BY ONE.

Maybe it works like this: one hacker frees one from the Matrix; each of these two frees one; each of these four frees one; and so on, like breeding rabbits.


8-[

Demigrog
2005-Apr-11, 05:18 PM
My conjecture after the first movie was that each AI system required a real human mind as its basis (so the "human battery" thing was more of a "mental energy" issue than a raw source of electricity), hence they needed humans. Second two movies kindof hurt my theory, though not necessarily fatally. I realized in "reloaded" that I was giving the writers too much credit. :(

Doodler
2005-Apr-11, 06:58 PM
I think you guys are overthinking the humans as a battery set up. Given the history involved, I don't think its a matter of how much energy they get from humans, but more along the lines of the use of humans as batteries being a mix between desperation at the loss of their primary source of power (solar) and paybacks for trying to off them in the first place.

Remember, they only indicated that humans were a source of energy, they didn't particularly say whether it was all that efficient.

Van Rijn
2005-Apr-12, 05:44 AM
But there is just no reasonable way humans can produce more energy than they consume. It takes a lot of energy to produce food for humans. Nuclear fission and probably fusion reactors would make sense, but not "human power." I gave up trying to figure out the movies, since I don't think the writers thought this stuff through, but the only thing that made sense to me was, as others have said, the machines were programmed to preserve humans. This is far from a new idea, Jack Williamson used it in "With Folded Hands" - robots completely took over and would care for humans, but wouldn't let humans do anything dangerous, even use sharp dinner knives. The robots actively prevented rebels from trying to stop them, and might lobotimize someone to make them less concerned about freedom. And like Asimov "Zeroth law" robots, these machines might be willing to sacrifice individuals to preserve humanity. A protected tank/VR simulation is about the safest environment possible. Ultimately pointless, but that's what you get with bad programming.

Van Rijn
2005-Apr-12, 06:00 AM
Hey, I forgot about this post. Nobody had anything to say?

Are you saying that the plot to the Matrix trilogy makes no sense? :-k

Pretty much, yes. Have you seen all three? The first went by fast enough that there wasn't time to get too concerned about details, but in the later two the problems became more obvious.

For what it is worth, my interpretation goes along with my thoughts on why the machines are preserving humans. In the world of the Matrix, there is no way a significant portion of the population could live outside - there is nothing for them to live on. The machines want to keep people alive, but the present system will eventually lead to human extinction. The only possible solution is to start consciously involving humans in the operation of the Matrix, and allow an expanding population to continue to live outside. Eventually, conditions on Earth will improve, and a mixed human/machine civilization outside of the Matrix might develop.

worzel
2005-Apr-12, 08:19 AM
Hey, I forgot about this post. Nobody had anything to say?

Are you saying that the plot to the Matrix trilogy makes no sense? :-k

Pretty much, yes. Have you seen all three? The first went by fast enough that there wasn't time to get too concerned about details, but in the later two the problems became more obvious.
My take on it is that the first was such a good movie that you could buy the silly human battery explanation, but the other two went over the top with meta-matrix twists and were utually rubbish movies anyway.