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Rue
2009-Jun-06, 02:40 PM
CBC news (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/05/08/nasa-space-settlement-eric-yam-asten-contest.html)

This is the winning design for NASA's Space Settlement Contest. It is a huge cylinder lined with dozens inflatable "transhab/bigelow" type modules.

Here (http://www.tdsb.on.ca/wwwdocuments/about_us/media_room/docs/ASTEN.pdf) is a PDF download (93 pages) of the proposal. Everything seems to be covered from escape systems to dietary requirements of the inhabitants. Lots of writing and CAD graphics.


The Secondary Stage ends with the attaching and firing of external thrusters located on the Vestibules, rotating the station and simulating gravity

To create a 1g living environment, fifty liquid hydrogen/liquid oxygen thrusters placed on the outer surface of the five Vestibules (ten on each Vestibule) fire, slowly accelerating the station until the centripetal acceleration reaches 9.81m/s2
, or 1g.

With a station of 1km in diameter, is it possible to achieve 1g and not feel like being inside a giant clothes dryer?

Page 59 has some math. (that I don't understand ;) )

Nicolas
2009-Jun-06, 06:33 PM
It depends on what you take as the comfortability limit (which differs from person to person). I thought a cartwheel space station needed to be several (say, 5) kilometers in diameter in order to have 1G without problems, but I'm not sure at all.

RGClark
2009-Jun-07, 01:29 PM
Toronto Star (http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2009/05/08/nasa-space-settlement-eric-yam-asten-contest.html)

This is the winning design for NASA's Space Settlement Contest. It is a huge cylinder lined with dozens inflatable "transhab/bigelow" type modules.

Here (http://www.tdsb.on.ca/wwwdocuments/about_us/media_room/docs/ASTEN.pdf) is a PDF download (93 pages) of the proposal. Everything seems to be covered from escape systems to dietary requirements of the inhabitants. Lots of writing and CAD graphics.



With a station of 1km in diameter, is it possible to achieve 1g and not feel like being inside a giant clothes dryer?

Page 59 has some math. (that I don't understand ;) )

Cost $500 billion!?!
Perhaps at that point space access will be routine and the cost could be brought down to 5 to 50 billion. As a point of comparison the Burj Dubai building which will be the tallest structure in the world when completed is projected to cost $4 billion dollars, and the entire new downtown district, $20 billion:

Burj Dubai.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Dubai


Bob Clark

Rhaedas
2009-Jun-07, 02:25 PM
For a station with a radius of 500 meters you'd need a rotation speed of 1.34 times a minute. Definitely noticeable if you can see the outside, but maybe not so much from the inside.

PraedSt
2009-Jun-07, 08:35 PM
I'm in the middle of it. It's not bad at all; I can see why it won. Lots of thought gone into it.

KaiYeves
2009-Jun-07, 09:41 PM
More people who make me feel like an underachiever...

Jason Chapman
2009-Jun-08, 09:30 AM
A heck of a lot of thought has gone into this design, as well as mathematics, which I am dismal at. Just looking through the PDF file now. He's gone into tremendous detail about things like construction timelines. Makes my head spin just reading.

mugaliens
2009-Jun-08, 08:34 PM
He's certainly done a lot of homework!

Couple of things:

1. He's borrowed heavily from Gerard K. O'Neil's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_K._O%27Neill)work (the O'Neil cylinder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder)), as well as T. A. Heppenheimer's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._A._Heppenheimer)Colonies in Space.

2. Regardless of whether you're spinning a cylinder around it's long axis or spinning co-axial toroids, the result is the same - dynamic instability. All rotating objects will eventually tumble until they're spinning around the axis with the least radius of gyration (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radius_of_gyration). The way to counter this in the multi-toroid model is to either spin ever other one (or small groups of them) in opposite directions, with just one or two more in the center spinning one way than the other to provide the gyroscopic anchor.

3. It needs a shield, but the shield need not spin with the units. It'll probably be spun ever so slightly for stability.

Outstanding effort for a middle-schooler!

PraedSt
2009-Jun-08, 08:49 PM
2. Regardless of whether you're spinning a cylinder around it's long axis or spinning co-axial toroids, the result is the same - dynamic instability.
I haven't finished it yet. He missed this? That's quite a biggie, isn't it? Still, good effort.

Rhaedas
2009-Jun-08, 09:07 PM
Like mugaliens mentioned, the simplest fix to that is what O'Neill added to his, just link two (or more) together to cancel the effect.

I'm wondering on shielding, could the combination of the photoelectrics and heat absorbers work as a shield? Big problem with a non-rotating shield is keeping it away from the rest of the station. But I guess that's an easier solution than the structural strength that would be needed if it was attached.

It's nice to see a new approach that still is using a lot of old ideas. I like the design, very modular and constructable.

Now we just need to rebuild the road up there. :(

PraedSt
2009-Jun-08, 09:30 PM
I'm wondering on shielding, could the combination of the photoelectrics and heat absorbers work as a shield? Big problem with a non-rotating shield is keeping it away from the rest of the station. But I guess that's an easier solution than the structural strength that would be needed if it was attached.

It's nice to see a new approach that still is using a lot of old ideas. I like the design, very modular and constructable.

Now we just need to rebuild the road up there. :(
He already has shielding- it's embedded into the outer walls of the whole structure. He uses multiple layers of cloth/fibre/foam. I don't know whether or not it'll be enough.

I like his approach too. Except for one small quibble. He builds the whole thing in one go, and then has the whole population settling in.

I think you could take advantage of his modular approach. It's a vast construction project; you could live and build at the same time. Jobs for workers!

Oh, and his method utilizes lunar mining and construction in lunar orbit. We have a long road to travel.

Polyrealastic Observer
2009-Jun-12, 04:27 PM
Well done, I say. This proposal has most of the elements in it that I have seen in NASAs architectural studies for the constellation program. With my slow computer it would take me ten years to gather all that info. Let alone, organize it all coherently. I'm reminded of the kids in Galaxy Quest! Yeah, we've got a long way to go, but the old expression comes to mind. Its like a huge piece of cheese...you've got to start biting somewhere.

publiusr
2009-Jun-19, 08:23 PM
It makes Goodyears METEOR look small

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=1508

I didn't like to see the Venture Star attached to it--but the price tag is similar to other very large undertakings and wars--and a more worthy goal.

I haven't seen anything like this since Dan' Cole. After all the smallsat nonsense, it is so refreshing to see space advocates thinking BIG again.

http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=2605
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=2640
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=2683
http://up-ship.com/blog/?p=2690
http://up-ship.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/05/molem-1.jpg

Jason Chapman
2009-Jun-19, 09:02 PM
I love some of these ship designs, very retro.