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xbck1
2004-Jan-12, 04:01 AM
This actually does seem to be a fairly controversial topic these days, what with all the blowing things up, setting people on fire, and exciting car chases that they have in them more and more.

So, what's your opinion?

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Jan-12, 04:10 AM
This actually does seem to be a fairly controversial topic these days, what with all the blowing things up, setting people on fire, and exciting car chases that they have in them more and more.

Which Game is this, Exactly?

I want to, um, Check it Out for, um, Research ...

Yeah, that's Right, just Research, nothing Strange about that, just Move Along ....

Humphrey
2004-Jan-12, 04:11 AM
I've said this before and i'll say it again. I love video games and they DO NOT make kids do anything bad. The kids are alrady messed up.

Normandy6644
2004-Jan-12, 04:25 AM
Video games have always been kind of my weak spot. I don't do anythign terribly brain rotting most of the time, but I like to play games when I get the chance. They're just so fun!

xbck1
2004-Jan-12, 04:27 AM
Which Game is this, Exactly?

I want to, um, Check it Out for, um, Research ...

Yeah, that's Right, just Research, nothing Strange about that, just Move Along .... Well, let's see... You could play Driver (though I don't think people get lit on fire in that), Grand Theft Auto 1, 2, or 3, Max Payne (the molotov cocktails rule!), Postal 1, or 2, Hitman... oh, what the heck. Go get something with a big M on the front of it from the game store and make sure the screenshots look nicely violent. There, you have yourself flaming people, exciting car chases, gratuitous violence and (with Hitman and GTA) sex, and a whole sh*tload of fancy graphics and neat effects. Wheee...


I've said this before and i'll say it again. I love video games and they DO NOT make kids do anything bad. The kids are alrady messed up. Sho 'nuff! The second video game I ever played was DOOM, and I still haven't shot anybody or jumped from a building. In fact, I think it really helped me to realize that they are just fake, no matter what anybody says.

If a kid tells you he did something because of what he saw in a game, he's either lying or severely messed up in the head.

beck0311
2004-Jan-12, 04:52 AM
Well, so far it appears that I am the only one, so far, that chose:

...That they are really stupid time wasters.

So I will explain myself. I don't care if children play them, but I am old fashioned enough to feel that adults should put away childish things. I am 31 and I am frequently surprised when I meet people my own age that are completely adicted to video games. Seems like a colossal waste of time to me. But maybe I am just getting bitter in my old age :P

freddo
2004-Jan-12, 05:09 AM
I think I've grown out of the frame-of-mind where actual computer games cannot really attract my interest. I am referring to fantasy, role-playing, and strategy type games where you sort of just drift off into the world the game provides. However, computer simulations I believe are still within my fancy.
The ability to scream through turn 4 at daytona or go 200mph at silverstone, the ability to land at LAX or intercept a spy plane... Things that people do for real, but are beyond the grasp of characters like myself - I find rather appealing.

Time wasting? Perhaps. But then you cannot truly consider sports, reading watching the idiot box, any less so. It remains another form of amusement.

beck0311
2004-Jan-12, 05:25 AM
<snip>
Time wasting? Perhaps. But then you cannot truly consider sports, reading watching the idiot box, any less so. It remains another form of amusement.

I assume you mean watching sports. I personally feel like being out in the fresh air playing softball and interacting with fellow human beings is a lot more rewarding than being couped up inside playing video games. I would certainly disagree that reading is as big a waste of time as playing these games. It would be unreasonable to claim that reading the great works of western literature is essentially the same as playing Mario Brothers. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, I realize that this is not exactly what you said, and I don't want to be accused of using a strawman argument-I am just trying to show where a claim like this can lead to.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Jan-12, 06:10 AM
Which Game is this, Exactly?

I want to, um, Check it Out for, um, Research ...

Yeah, that's Right, just Research, nothing Strange about that, just Move Along .... Well, let's see... You could play Driver (though I don't think people get lit on fire in that),

My Brother has it.


Grand Theft Auto 1,

Played it.


2,

Played it.


or 3,

Haven't played it, yet, and you Forgot Vice City, which I SO Wanna Play!


Max Payne (the molotov cocktails rule!),

Haven't played it.


Postal 1,

"Only my Weapon understands me."


or 2,

Haven't played it.


Hitman...

My Brother won't Stop Talking about it.


oh, what the heck. Go get something with a big M on the front of it from the game store and make sure the screenshots look nicely violent. There, you have yourself flaming people, exciting car chases, gratuitous violence and (with Hitman and GTA) sex, and a whole sh*tload of fancy graphics and neat effects. Wheee...

Or Steal Them off The Internet ...

One or The Other ....

:evil:

Jobe
2004-Jan-12, 06:42 AM
Video games are awesome. People who make comments like: "Video games make you kill people." and "Mario is the devil" and "DOOM gives you AIDS", are all the same. None of them have ever played video games, and none of them are relying on any scientific studies to draw their conclusions.

I read about a study in wired that was made in a university campus. It showed that people who play First Person Shooters (Quake 1-3, Doom, RTCW, ET, BF1942, Half Life, CS) had an increased ability to identify and count objects. The test subjects were flashed an image containing a number of objects for an instant, then asked how many they saw. The FPS players (and not other-genre game players, or non game-players) could identify up to 7 objects without counting, whereas the others would start to deliberately count, and therefore make mistakes at around 5.

So who says video games are a waste of time :P There are some games which have cool puzzles and require alot of use of both hemispheres of the brain. They're entertaining, which is value in itself.

To anyone who doesn't like them: ph33r my p4nZ3R

Jobe
2004-Jan-12, 06:46 AM
Also, I didn't vote because the options suck.

There should be a


-They are entertaining, and mentally stimulating, and no more of a waste of time than any of the other meaningless tasks people fill their lives with, in the deluded belief they're doing something worthwhile.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Jan-12, 07:01 AM
Hey, Mario is The Devil, just ask Bowser ...

And as for Ph33r!/\/g your P4nZ3R ....

|_|p \'0|_|r5 !

:lol:

Kebsis
2004-Jan-12, 08:40 AM
I've loved video games since I was three. Don't have as much time for them anymore I'm afriad, but I still say you're brain is better served with playing even a simplistic videogame than it is watching a few hours of mindless sitcoms on TV.

BTW, I know there are a few WWII buffs out there. Try Aces High, it's like an online combat flight simulator. Hundreds of people in at once, it's really cool, and you can download it and get two weeks free.

Lycus
2004-Jan-12, 09:27 AM
Hey, Mario is The Devil, just ask Bowser ...

Yeah! Whom invaded who's castle? Whom threw who into a fiery pit? All because Mario didn't approve of Bowser's relationship with the princess!

Jobe
2004-Jan-12, 10:11 AM
Hey, Mario is The Devil, just ask Bowser ...

And as for Ph33r!/\/g your P4nZ3R ....

|_|p \'0|_|r5 !

:lol:

well down j00rs!

R.A.F.
2004-Jan-12, 11:20 AM
Well, I'm one of those oldsters who have played video games from the very, very beginning. Yes...I remember being very excited when pong was released! (Boy, how times have changed.)

Currently, I'm obsessed with Evil Dead: A Fistful of Boomstick.. Great game!!
Ash's comments, voiced by Bruce Campbell, are wonderfully funny.

Captain Kidd
2004-Jan-12, 12:07 PM
I personally feel like being out in the fresh air playing softball and interacting with fellow human beings is a lot more rewarding than being couped up inside playing video games.
Poor hand-eye coordination due to bad vision (correctable to 20/20 but I always feel kinda off-centered) and bad knees keep me from sports and I've never gotten the fun in sitting in bleachers watching somebody else play.

But the big question is, do you need to be in visual/physical contact to interact with people? Some of my best friends were online in my MUDing days. I knew as much about them as any other friend.


I would certainly disagree that reading is as big a waste of time as playing these games.
Even romace novels? ;)

True, there's the 'brain drain' games that only require a quick hand-eye-button coordination, but I go for those that force you to think, like chess, you have to think a few steps ahead of what's going on or you're going to fail.

So I really don't see that much difference other than games can be detrimental to your health as you're not expending much energy, but not all bowlers are the peak of physical fitness either. :D

Glom
2004-Jan-12, 01:52 PM
In certain ways, it's better for kids to play video games than to watch TV. Watching TV, they just sit on the couch living parasitically through the prefabricated events. With video games, they participate. In games like Enter The Matrix, of which I've been playing loads lately, they have to think about what's happening. It took a lot of trials and thought about strategy to take down the SWAT helicopter in 'North Point 2'. They learn reflexes and coordination of their hands. They have to use their eyes and ears to win. Obviously, going outside and doing some sport is probably much better, but video games can be useful on a rainy day.

Of course, Enter The Matrix does have slight ideological problems, such as its complete uncaring for innocent police and SWAT officers. You are made to trash a post office, an airport and blow up a nuclear power station in true terrorist fashion. Of course, there are games like Theme Park World, where your objective is to build something great instead of destroying it.

Wally
2004-Jan-12, 02:01 PM
Over the past 3 months or so, I've become a huge fan of America's Army. It's freeware that you can download from many different sites, and is supported by our very own tax dollars via the US Army (they consider it a recruitment tool). It's an interactive game, where you play either on an Assault team or the Defence team. Each player is an actual person, playing on his/her computer worldwide. Great graphics and action, plus you get a chance to speak with people from all corners. It's kept me up entire nights before (although only on non-work nights!)

I'm 38, by the way. . .

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 02:09 PM
I've been playing computer/video games since I was 15, so far no particularly nasty side effects :)

gethen
2004-Jan-12, 02:21 PM
I haven't played video games for a long time, so I didn't feel qualified to vote, but my two sons will play for hours, and I haven't noticed them acting out any of the horrific things that happen on the screen during Grand Theft Auto yet. I do think it's probably wise for parents to monitor the games played by small children though.

Andromeda321
2004-Jan-12, 03:51 PM
I personally never liked video games because I was never good at them (with the notable exception of Tetris). Instead I was the person who told my brother how to solve the puzzles when they came up occasionally because he was good at playing the game but couldn't solve the puzzles.

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 03:53 PM
I personally never liked video games because I was never good at them (with the notable exception of Tetris). Instead I was the person who told my brother how to solve the puzzles when they came up occasionally because he was good at playing the game but couldn't solve the puzzles.

Try the MYST series then, no action, all puzzles and the puzzles are GREAT :)

semi-sentient
2004-Jan-12, 03:59 PM
I <3 video games, although I'm much more of a PC gamer than console gamer. I can't imagine why anyone would think games are a waste of time, especially when so many people spend their lives watching TV or posting on forums. I'd have my children (assuming I have them someday) play video games instead of watching TV any day of the week.

xbck1
2004-Jan-12, 04:03 PM
I haven't played video games for a long time, so I didn't feel qualified to vote, but my two sons will play for hours, and I haven't noticed them acting out any of the horrific things that happen on the screen during Grand Theft Auto yet. I do think it's probably wise for parents to monitor the games played by small children though. I agree. Just like with violent movies or TV, or something with lots of sex or drugs or something, I'll keep small children away from violent/suggestive/games with drugs in them because I know that even though they know it's fake, they can still be very curious and interested in the things they're seeing, i.e., sex, drugs, violence.


(snip) -They are entertaining, and mentally stimulating, and no more of a waste of time than any of the other meaningless tasks people fill their lives with, in the deluded belief they're doing something worthwhile. I have to disagree with this one, to a point. I don't think that video games are nearly as productive as some... well, what word? Hobbies? While I do agee that they can improve hand-eye coordination, they aren't (in my personal opinion) as stimulating as something like coin or stamp collecting, or even playing board games, because they aren't really as interective as those type of things on a mental or physical level.

Maybe I'm seeming to contradict myself. Allow me to clarify.

Video games waste time, no doubt about that. I think that they should not be as much of an important matter to people as something in the real world, something that they can do and participate in actively, like sports (which are, in my opinion, glorified exercise), even if it is a waste of time.

On the other hand, there is the Eye Toy (http://ebgames.com/ebx/product/237204.asp)...

Amadeus
2004-Jan-12, 04:20 PM
I've been playing video games since the ZX81 days!
So far I've not killed anyone....

I woud stop but they keep making them better!

Playing Project Gotham racing 2 on Xbox live at the mo.

wedgebert
2004-Jan-12, 04:33 PM
Video games aren't as mentally/physically interactive or as stimulating as stamp/coin collecting? You must be playing the wrong games.

Maybe I'm missing something, but putting stamps or coins in a book sonuds almost as boring as baseball. In fact, many games are much more stimulating (if played correctly) than many 'real-world' hobbies. A good game, like a good book, will draw you in to the game and let you espace reality for a while. I might be a wizard, WWII pilot, space marine or even pro basketball player for a short time. And during that time, if I want to win, I have to think like whatever I am pretending to be.

Compare that to Monopoly where everything is decided by random rolls of dice. Or stamp collecting where no thought is required at all.

I don't see the difference between video games and sports, aside from the lack of exercise. When I play games, I actively particiapate in the game, and in the case of multiplayer games, with other people. Many games require me to think and exercise problem solving skills.

People treat video games differently because they treat everything they don't like or understand differently. There is this stigma around video games because they make an easy target. However, there have been NO definite links between video games and violence. The kids and parents blame video games as a scapegoat to avoid taking personal responsibility.

And if you blame the video games for the violence, I'm going to blame sports for the use of steroids and other performance enhancing drugs.

bbtuna
2004-Jan-12, 04:33 PM
I'm more of a spectator video gamer. I just watch/help my hubby play. My hand-eye coordination stinks. The one game I am attempting to play now is Tribes 2. I tend to get blown up a lot. I don't think they are a waste of time, unless you sit and play them all day everyday. It's just something fun to do.

xbck1
2004-Jan-12, 04:36 PM
Video games aren't as mentally/physically interactive or as stimulating as stamp/coin collecting? You must be playing the wrong games.Sorry. Definitely should've rephrased that. Methinks I should've gotten a tad more sleep. Forgive me.

Pi Man
2004-Jan-12, 05:22 PM
You know... there are non-violent video games...

I mean, Maxis/EA/Bullfrog/etc... has some of the coolest, yet non-violent video games there are.

semi-sentient
2004-Jan-12, 05:38 PM
I've been playing video games since the ZX81 days!
So far I've not killed anyone....

I woud stop but they keep making them better!

Playing Project Gotham racing 2 on Xbox live at the mo.

Project Gotham Racing 2 owns! Have you unlocked the Nuremburg track yet? It's insane. Each lap takes 8 minutes to finish and with the new Ferrari, you'll reach speeds well above 200 mph on the straight-aways.

Captain Kidd
2004-Jan-12, 05:38 PM
Just saying 'video games' is also a bit stereotypical. They can range from certainly nothing more than run around and mindless shoot things to games that require long thought processes before you move.

I go for the simulation type games. Simcity 4 is my current major time waster. If you don't plan things out right then soon your expenses outpaces your income and you go broke very quickly. Then you have to raise taxes or something to get money but that drives off the population so you then start losing money again. It's a good teacher for budgeting and learning to control your money and the result of getting spend-happy.

I also go for the strategy war games. Rather than just running around blasting things, you have to be strategic about your units; give ground here to have enough units to take that ground there. Master of Orion II comes to mind, 3 is horrid, or Space Empires IV; I could spend 15-30 minutes trying to figure out the best balance of weapons to armor to engines (only to miss that once combination the enemy didn’t and never get to fire off a shot).

I agree video games are time wasters; but so are sports. After all, the time spent hitting a round ball with a stick could be used in mowing the yard, cleaning, homework, feeding the poor, finding a solution to world peace, etc.

As for violence, how many videos are there of soccer, ‘scuse me, football ;) fan riots? (American football’s had its share of riots too). How often have hockey players had their noses busted? I’ve yet to see a city burn and suffer wide-spread looting because somebody’s team lost on Unreal Tournament.

semi-sentient
2004-Jan-12, 06:01 PM
Well, even first person shooters can require alot of thought, especially the game you mentioned above--Unreal Tournament. I played this game competitively for about 2 years and the amount of teamwork required in TDM, CTF and DOM is insane. You have 4/5 players on each side communicating the status of power-ups, positions, etc. and each player controls a different portion of the map. If you get into trouble, you use custom binds (text messages) to summon help from teammates. There's plenty of strategy involved in all the mods, if you play them competively (against other clans). I have to say that I find the average gamer to be far more intelligent than the average kid who watches the Simpsons all day long or plays sports. A few of my ex-clanmates where about 14/15 years old and were already developing their own games (both coding and 3d modeling). That's very impressive, IMO. I wish I had started out that early--I'd be an awesome developer.

Normandy6644
2004-Jan-12, 06:18 PM
My favorite recent game is Rise of Nations. It's just so much fun to take control of a civilization and try to conquer the world. It's a suped-up version of computer risk, though the battles are all played out in real time. Plus there are technology advancements, i.e., you start out in the ancient age and so your economy is based largely on how much food you have. Also, military units are basic. As time goes on your civilization gets more advanced (through research). Fun game for those who want to conquer the world.... :lol:

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 07:00 PM
The Civilization type games are a lot of fun, my favorite is Alpha Centauri

Colt
2004-Jan-12, 07:11 PM
If videogames cause people to kill other people or do bad things then obviously a car must make people run over others. I mean, all of that power attached to a piece of metal on wheels.. What else are you going to do with it? Same way with firearms, people kill others, not a piece of metal and wood. :roll:


Anyhow, I'm more into simulation games like Simcity, Civilization, and flight simulators. There's nothing like diving your corsair through the flaming hell of burning ships, flak and machine gun fire while being chased by three A6M Zero fighters. 8) Hunting down Xenomorphs in Aliens vs Predator 2 with Humphrey is also lots of fun. Unfortunately with school and other things I rarely get to lately. Still, the internet and computer games have probably caused me to learn more about history than my classes at school have. When I do or learn about something, I want to learn more and find out how it works. Why does something work the way it does?

Parents, monitor what your kids play, even better become interested in them and play with them. You don't know how fun it is to smash your brother and dad at a computer game over the LAN. :)

Final note. Games that require city/civilization building definately help to build skills in managing resources and money and to not make mistakes. I once spent three days during the summer playing a single game of Civilization II with a friend in a WWIII scenario. I was the Middle-East while he played China as allies. Hour-long turns and massive movements of troops really teach you how to manage things.. Needless to say we wiped out the Soviet Union, invaded Europe and China was setting up teashops in Wisconsin by the end of the time limit. -Colt

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 08:18 PM
I didn't want to get started on this... This is one of the topics that burns me up.

What is it with our society that makes us have to place blame on anything and everything, except ourselves?

Let's see, the demise of our current generation has been blamed on everything from books, to blues, to jazz, to rock, to radio, to tv, to magazines, to sports, to candy, to (currently) video games!

Is it at all possible that our generation is not in demise, but that we simply have more access to news information? And because of this perceived demise, whether real or imagined, we must assign blame to something. Obviously, it cannot be the parents that are doing a lousy job at parenting... that cannot be the problem. It has to be something else. So let's see, let's blame everything that kids like to do! Let's forget for a moment that Jack the Ripper never played a video game. Nor did 99.99999999% of every criminal that has ever walked this earth! The current crop of bad people MUST be because of video games.

That's about as far as I can go without going into a tirade of cursing and insults on the subject. We can continue that at GLP! And anyone who disagrees with me, just hope you're not in front of my Mauser the next time I play MOHAA! :D

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 08:22 PM
well IIRC society has so far blamed Comics, Rock Music, and Video Games among other things for inducing teenagers/young adults to crime. I remember reading recently an article a Computer Gaming World about it....

Since I have had to do with all three since I was 15 I guess I am a hardened criminal :lol:

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 08:25 PM
:lol:

Good catch! I missed comic books.

I'm a hardened criminal too! Wanna start a gang?

wedgebert
2004-Jan-12, 08:27 PM
Well, to throw my two cents in, my current game choices are Project Gotham 2, SLASH-EM (A NetHack variant) and Tropic (with the Pardise Island pack).

Nothing really violent, unless you count me breaking things because I spun out on the last turn of the last lap of a 10 minute race in PGR 2 and went from 1st to 8th.

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 08:29 PM
:lol:

Good catch! I missed comic books.

I'm a hardened criminal too! Wanna start a gang?


Sure! :lol:

rigel
2004-Jan-12, 08:33 PM
I would say like TV. Since I don't generally have to much time to do both. Some games look interesting, and i'll watch my son play for a few minutes, which is also my attention span for TV.

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 08:35 PM
Just finished Max Payne 2 last night. Great game! Bullet-time never gets old.

But I'm a Medal of Honor Allied Assault (MOHAA) fanatic. Been playing for two years, and in that time frame, only Max Payne (1 and 2) has taken any of my gaming time besides MOHAA.

Humphrey
2004-Jan-12, 08:58 PM
Hank: you really should try Call of Duity. Leagues beyond MOHAA and the multiplayer is top notch. Believe me you will be drooling from the first level on!

If you do get it, tell me and we can play multiplayer sometime. :-)

semi-sentient
2004-Jan-12, 09:01 PM
HankSolo: Would you say that Max Payne 2 was better than the original? I really enjoyed the original, but it was far too easy to beat. I think I finished MP1 in 11 hours (consecutive play, I might add :P).

Lycus
2004-Jan-12, 09:03 PM
I like video games, but I probably don't play them as much as I used to. Not that I've lost interest, it's just I've had trouble finding games that I enjoy as much as my old games. I used to love to play all the big RPGs like Final Fantasy, Chrono Trigger, Breath of Fire, etc. Watching a story unfold while playing a game was always my favorite aspect of this category.

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 09:03 PM
Thanks Humphrey, but I have it. I actually have most high-profile games. The problem is getting them to displace MOHAA. I was really hyped about COD, but I was disappointed with the feel and use of the weapons. It's probably because I'm so used to MOHAA. But COD ended up falling into the same category as every other game besides the Max Paynes... "I'll get to it when I finally get sick of MOHAA."

If you're willing to boot up MOHAA, I run a server 24/7. Sitting right here next to me. You can find it on gamespy under 1.11 servers as:
-=|SoD|=- Clan Server

I'm willing to jump in right now if you want!

Normandy6644
2004-Jan-12, 09:06 PM
I really like the CoD demo. I haven't picked up the game yet, but from the demo it really is awesome.

Humphrey
2004-Jan-12, 09:14 PM
sorry hank. I dont have MOHAA. I played it on a freinds machine. :-(

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 09:15 PM
MoMo, I know what you mean about being easy to beat. It was equally good compared to MP1. The graphics got an upgrade and are sensational on a mid to high-end video card. Mona is hot. The story telling is in the same format, and I always enjoyed that. The bullet time has been tweaked a bit. If you've played MP1, it doesn't have the same "Holy Cow!" sensation since you've seen bullet-time before, but like I said, it never gets old. The coolest is reloading during bullet time. That's a new effect and you'll find yourself doing it just for kicks. I finished it very quickly as well. So you have to consider the price/playtime ratio. If you're not concerned about the price, and you're an MP1 fan, then ABSOLUTELY play the game! :)

If you haven't played MP1 and you want to try a really cool and different game, get MP2.

Oh, they have another feature that's kind of cool. After you finish the game, it unlocks Dead Man Walking, which is kind of like a multiplayer against bots. The sole goal is to survive as long as possible, and there's wave after wave of bots coming at you. Your high score is based on how long you can survive. You have all the same bullet-time powers as in the regular game. I played that for another two hours last night after I finished the game. And I'll play that again.

One tip: By default, auto-aim is turned on. If you want the game to be more challenging, remember to turn it off in your options screen. This is a PC game after all! We don't need no stinking auto-aim!

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 09:21 PM
This is a PC game after all! We don't need no stinking auto-aim!

Spoken like a true Hard Core PC gamer :lol:

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 09:28 PM
:lol:

That's right! I'll never go to consoles. Console games are the cause of the demise of society! :wink:

semi-sentient
2004-Jan-12, 09:44 PM
Yeah, I've had a tough time getting into console games as well. About the only game that I've gotten really into is Project Gotham 2. The others blow, IMO. My roommates think I'm nuts because of it, but I insist that nothing beats playing with a keyboard and mouse! I just can't seem to adjust to the limited functionality of a controller. I need my binds!

semi-sentient
2004-Jan-12, 09:45 PM
BTW, has anyone played XIII? I think the graphics are very cool (comic book style) and the storyline is decent. I haven't tried the multiplayer yet but I plan to once I get passed single player.

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 09:46 PM
BTW, has anyone played XIII? I think the graphics are very cool (comic book style) and the storyline is decent. I haven't tried the multiplayer yet but I plan to once I get passed single player.

Heard quite a bit about it, never played it though

constible
2004-Jan-12, 09:58 PM
I'm an avid video game player, and no damage done to society by me. 8)

People are in charge of their own actions. Blaming video games is akin to blaming books. Why don't people try to ban those as well? (I know there's a few people out there who try to ban Harry Potter books and others :cry: , I'm talking in general)

I can't wait for Doom III to come out. The first two I've spent hours on. Soooo much fun. 8-[

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 10:05 PM
(I know there's a few people out there who try to ban Harry Potter books and others :cry: , I'm talking in general)

Interesting point, I have heard that there have been people who claim that the Harry Potter books promote witchcraft and belief in the supernatural in kids. I find that hard to believe.

[Editted for spelling]

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 10:06 PM
XIII got dissed in CGW. I was looking forward to it based on their glowing previews (and PCGamer's as well). My problem is that even though a game gets a great review, and even though I may think it's cool, I have very limited play time between work/commuting, wife/kids, stuff that needs to be done around the house, and sleep. So if I only give myself an hour to play, I have to decide whether I'm going to spend that time installing and getting used to a new game, or just going in and kicking some butt in MOHAA. The latter wins almost every time.

So I literally have a huge stack of games that I've never played for more than 10-15 minutes and are waiting for the day I get sick of MOHAA.

Once in a while, a game like Max Payne comes along and manages to capture my attention enough that I want to play it. Half Life 2 may do it too, but we'll see. I said the same thing about Unreal 2 and that didn't work out...

Humphrey
2004-Jan-12, 10:15 PM
XII got some good points for its grapohics and story, but it was murdered by the critics for its lackluster gamewply and clunky shooter engine. They said for the first few levels its fun, but it fast gets old.

After playing the DEmo, i would probobly agree with them. It will be one i will buy when it gets to the bargin bin, but right now im having a blast playing Beyond good and evil. (recently reduced to only $20!!!!) :-)

the last console i bought was a sega genesis. after that its pc only gaming for me. I would buy a console, but then i thought, why should i? in 2 years i will have to buy a tottaly new one. at least with a computer you can do other things, have much better graphics than any console will ever have (due to lim itations of tv screens), and the ability to upgrade the dang thing cheaply and easily.

I just wish that some games that should be on the PC come out first. For example the next GTA games. They suck on playstation and the graphics and gameplay is 10x better on the pc than playstation. Heck even X-play on tech tv said that rockstar made a mistake by signing the deal with playstation.

xbck1
2004-Jan-12, 10:28 PM
Not to be mean or anything like that, and I would love to hear your opinion and discuss things like your opinion about video games, but, er, who the heck voted for the first option???

Anyways. Next paycheck I'll have some money to spend. I'm thinking it'll probably be in the range in which I could buy a new game for my PS2 (alas, I have a weak computer and I'm saving up for a good one). Should I get Beyond Good and Evil? It looks like a great game. Any other suggestions? I'm looking for something with a strong story but also maybe some actiony bits.

Oh, wait. I need to finish Splinter Cell and Prince of Persia (which is, by the way, an excellent game.). #-o

Sever
2004-Jan-12, 10:30 PM
COD was too easy, blew through it in 4 hours. But fun.

wedgebert
2004-Jan-12, 10:37 PM
:lol:

That's right! I'll never go to consoles. Console games are the cause of the demise of society! :wink:

Heathen. While I am (was) and avid HL/CS player, Halo blew them out of the water. Haven't played PC Halo though, it runs like a slideshow on my computer.

However, Halo 2 is something I'm avidly looking forward to.

I will say that, I too am having trouble finding games that are worth buying. Most new games (MOHAA, MP2, etc) are just more of the same. Those that are different, usually aren't good either.

I blame Everquest, and Blizzard Entertainment. Blizzard and EQ both make their money by catering to the lowest common denominator of gamers. While I understand that complexity and realism don't always make a better game, Blizzard games, and Everquest totally abandon the idea. Since Starcraft (to be specfiic) and EQ appeal to a wide demographic (relatively speaking), they tend to sell very well.

Normally I wouldn't have a problem with that, however it leads to two things. First, the other publishers see those sales and think "I gotta get me some of that" and proceed to do what they can to copy the idea. This leads to a large number of 'simple' games that sell decently enough to warrant making more.

Secondly, we're systematically weening the newer gamers away from anything that involves thinking. They begin to see any difficulty in the game as a problem for the developers to fix, not as a challenge to overcome.

This is especially true in the MMORPG market. EQ is a terrible, terrible game. It consists of nothing more than walking to various spots, killing monsters and collecting loot. This doesn't seem that bad, until you realize you're paying $10+ a month to do this, most of the time you have to stand in line to fight/loot, and for all the claim about being a massively multiplayer game, you spend most of the time just playing alone or with a couple of friends.

Compare that to the early Ultima Online. UO has a dozen or so different trade skills that can all be used to successfully roleplay a character. No fighting necessary at all. (Compare that to EQ's where the three (3) trade skills are totally useless). Player interaction wasn't an opt-in choice like in EQ. If someone wanted to harm you, he could. This lead to some minor problems of course, Player Killers (PKs) were more common than anticipated and gangs of them ruled a large portion of the land.

Anyway, that kind of potential interaction lead to much richer playing environment. You couldn't always trust people, and just like in real-life you have to beware of strangers bearing weapons. However, when a stranger jumps in and saves you from that PK gang, well that's what multiplayer games are all about.

Anyways, my point (and I do have one) is that EQ sales skyrocketed because they took the risk out of the game. You died in UO and everything stayed on your body for anyone to take. In EQ, noone could loot your body but you. In UO you could be attacked by anyone, in EQ noone can attack you without permission. So many of the younger players, switched over to EQ because it was all reward and no risk. Thus UO had to adapt or die, and evetually the same changes were made to UO. However, now it's not fun. I was never a PK, and usually died to any I encountered, but the risk made it fun. Now it's another multiplayer that everyone plays singleplayer.

Well, to wrap this up, I'm not saying that Blizzard games suck (Starcraft does though), or their players are a bunch of 13 year old script kiddies (many are though), it's just that there seems to be no money in making games that challenge the player. Luckily, FPS's don't suffer from this problem, they suffer from the problem of "who cares if the games get better, as long as we can kill people in cooler ways".

(To those who are wondering about my long rant, I'm a bit bored at work and this killed 15 minutes :))

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-12, 10:40 PM
:lol:

That's right! I'll never go to consoles. Console games are the cause of the demise of society! :wink:

Heathen. While I am (was) and avid HL/CS player, Halo blew them out of the water. Haven't played PC Halo though, it runs like a slideshow on my computer.


PC Halo ROCKS, about my only complaint is it's console oriented saving system....

xbck1
2004-Jan-12, 10:49 PM
PC Halo ROCKS, about my only complaint is it's console oriented saving system.... On that note... Why can't console games allow you to save anywhere, just like a PC game? It certainly seems like you should be able to. Isn't all you need the X, Y, Z, coordinates, the stuff you have in your inventory, how much life you have, and where you're pointing at? Given, there could be more complexities for something like an RPG. But I still don't understand why Final Fantasy 8 allowed you to save anywhere on the world map (as long as you weren't in a town or something) and pther games don't. It seems to me that it would be a fairly simple thing to do.

Example: The computer records where you are in XYZ coordinates, it lists the stuff in your inventory, how much health/life/whatever you have, what bad guys you've done in, and all that other info. It just keeps lists and then reads them later. Why couldn't this work? Seems like it could to me.

freddo
2004-Jan-12, 10:56 PM
I assume you mean watching sports.

No, playing them.

I personally feel like being out in the fresh air playing softball and interacting with fellow human beings is a lot more rewarding than being couped up inside playing video games. I would certainly disagree that reading is as big a waste of time as playing these games. It would be unreasonable to claim that reading the great works of western literature is essentially the same as playing Mario Brothers. I am not trying to put words in your mouth, I realize that this is not exactly what you said, and I don't want to be accused of using a strawman argument-I am just trying to show where a claim like this can lead to.

Well it seems as though you're looking at the things that can be taken out of a recreational experience, and the contention is that there is no reward to be had from gaming? Why don't we take a quick look at some of the things that can be garnered from my examples - positives only.

Sports:
Improved Hand-Eye(Foot) Co-ordination (+ reaction times)
Communication Skills (team sports)
Physical Health

Television:
Knowledge of Current Events
Knowledge of History
Appreciation of Classic Media/Art (cultural enrichment)

Literature:
Comprehension Skills
Appreciation of Classic Literature (cultural enrichment)
Knowledge of History

Video Games:
Improved Hand-Eye(Foot) Co-ordination (+ reaction times)
Communication Skills (multiplayer games)
Knowledge (varying) of other 'disciplines' (flying, fighting, driving, life in a different epoch)
Knowledge of History
Comprehension Skills
Resource Management Skills (varying)

No two forms of entertainment that fit into these categories are created equal (monopoly v. trivial pursuit for example), and the amount that you can benefit from each activity will vary. However attempting to group all games into the mindless jump/click fest of Mario Brothers is a Straw Man... And not really any different than claming you can get as much out of Tomorrow When the War Began as you can from War and Peace. It is always relative, and it seems that often, games have a bigger sliding scale of genres to cater for...

HankSolo
2004-Jan-12, 11:02 PM
Great post Wedgebert!

I agree with you about the demise of video games. I am anti-RTS. I have grown so sick of real-time strategies, that I don't even bother to try them anymore, no matter what the review. They're all the same, and they're almost a cancer in that they are still growing and affecting other genres. My second biggest gripe is Diablo. I thought for sure that all future RPG's would be come click-fests. I never found any fun in clicking on successive waves of skeletons. There was a time when a role-playing game was actually a thinking exercise. Tactical combat, NPC interaction, etc... I thought Diablo would ruin that, and it almost did. But thankfully, good RPG's are still coming out. I'm going to install Knights of the Old Republic any day now... And Temple of Elemental Evil... But whether I end up playing them for any length of time will be a different story. :(

My favorite game category used to be turn-based strategy (and still is). Heroes of Might & Magic I, II, and III still rank as my favorite games of all time. IV was horrible and the "genius" who decided to change the format is hopefully still standing on the unemployment line. Right along with turn-based strategy, came wargames. I used to stay up all night long playing the Panzer General and Steel Panther games. I am probably going to buy Korsun Pocket, as CGW has called it the best hex-based wargame EVER! That's pretty high praise considering the games I just mentioned were all-time classics.

Great to see so many other gamers here!

xbck1
2004-Jan-12, 11:21 PM
Ha ha! May is coming soon! On May 2nd (I think) the computer lab that I work in is going to have an open-house kind of thing. There will be a LAN game of something like Unreal Tournament or Battlefield 1942, and we could probably get online from here. (hint, hint) I'll also be setting up my PS2 to a projector so that it'll have a giant screen on the wall. MUAHAHAHAHA!!

Details coming later as the semester progresses. :D

wedgebert
2004-Jan-13, 12:06 AM
PC Halo ROCKS, about my only complaint is it's console oriented saving system.... On that note... Why can't console games allow you to save anywhere, just like a PC game? It certainly seems like you should be able to. Isn't all you need the X, Y, Z, coordinates, the stuff you have in your inventory, how much life you have, and where you're pointing at? Given, there could be more complexities for something like an RPG. But I still don't understand why Final Fantasy 8 allowed you to save anywhere on the world map (as long as you weren't in a town or something) and pther games don't. It seems to me that it would be a fairly simple thing to do.

Example: The computer records where you are in XYZ coordinates, it lists the stuff in your inventory, how much health/life/whatever you have, what bad guys you've done in, and all that other info. It just keeps lists and then reads them later. Why couldn't this work? Seems like it could to me.

One major reason is that a limited save system (checkpoints, save points, etc) is an easy way to artificially increase the difficulty of a game.

My best friend went through Half-Life with one hand on the mouse and one hand on the Quick Save/Load keys

Humphrey
2004-Jan-13, 02:38 AM
Hank: KOTOR is a amazing game. I am not a huge fan of turn based games, but damn, they worked it so the graphics and action never stops. A very good mixing of real time and turn based management. plus you can't beat the story. (and this is cming from a non star wars geek).

There definitely is a very huge lull in pc gaming. currently the popularity of consoles outstrips pc gaming by yards and miles. heck compare the gaming only stores recently. Nowadays what used to be half the sotre being pc games is now at the most on row of shelves. The amount of very good pc games is lessening and the rate at what they are coming out is less too. Its just more productive to make a console game today. People are more willing to buy them and they are getting more lucrative deals. Dell and Compac, and gateway are not giving out huge deals to game making companies to make a PC firts, or PC only game. But Sony and microsoft are giving huge incentives and deals to game making companies to produce on their system first.

Look at what happened to HALO. It origonally was going to be a PC first, and only game. But as soon as the X-Box was produced, Microsoft and Bungie switched over to the X-box. This left the PC waiting 3 years for HALO to come to it.

Heck many games i have gotten recently have been hand-me-downs from consoles (HALO and KOTOR as examples). I mean think of it this way. You have the opeiton to make your game for the PC or console. For the PC you will sell it for $50 and thats all you make from that. IF you make it for a console there is a good chance to can sell it for thae same price, plus a hefty profit addition by a deal with the console maker.

Which would you choose?

[puts turban on]
But for all of us PC gamers out there. I predict a rejuvination of our industry. As more people become sophisticated gamers, and more games come online as multiplayer oriented they will start to realize the advantages of online games on the pc over the consoles. Plus the recent trend of releasing the same game on all consoles at the same time (ex. the hulk game) will ruin the idea of getting a console for its ganmes since all of the consoles basically get the exact same game (and this trend does not seem to be decreasing). Thus people will see the advantage of the better graphics, modding (espoecially the modding ability of being a PC gamer), internet, and just plain cost saving of being a PC gamer.

[takes off turban]

beck0311
2004-Jan-13, 03:47 AM
Well it seems as though you're looking at the things that can be taken out of a recreational experience, and the contention is that there is no reward to be had from gaming?

Not at all. One can get rewards from doing many things. I guess what I am trying to say is that I would consider time spent playing video games as a waste of my time. If you enjoy playing video games, have at it.

I admit that it is not fair to compare all video games to Mario Brothers, it was simply one of two video games I could think of. The other being Grand Theft Auto, and I was trying to avoid being accused of blaming video games for societies ills. I have two teenage nephews who play extremely violent games (at least that's how they look to me), and they are both well adjusted, good kids.

I have to admit, I am curious how you gain a knowledge of history by playing video games. I am not saying that you can't, I just can't see it. At least I am skeptical that you can gain the kind of in depth understanding of a period of history as you can by reading a well-researched book on the same subject-certainly not in the same amount of time.

Anyway, just my two cents.

Humphrey
2004-Jan-13, 04:12 AM
Oh you definitely wont get as much information as from a good book, but you can get a very good entry level information about the era. Like WW2 army movements, leaders, battles, weapons, vehicles, and famous events. some strategy games can teach you about the cultures of other civilizations and their histories (several RTS games have been big on this)



But for me the bigest reason i play games is that it is the biggest way i relieve stress.

freddo
2004-Jan-13, 04:17 AM
[edit]^^^^ Humph that's exactly what I'm getting at.


I have to admit, I am curious how you gain a knowledge of history by playing video games. I am not saying that you can't, I just can't see it. At least I am skeptical that you can gain the kind of in depth understanding of a period of history as you can by reading a well-researched book on the same subject-certainly not in the same amount of time.


Fair enough, and as I said there are varying levels. A couple of examples:

Civilisation or historical epoch games give an insight into the chronology of human civilisation itself - you'll learn of the seven wonders of the ancient world, where they sprung up, and the developments they fostered. In fact, in Civilisation there is a reference called the Civiliopaedia - which outlines all the units/improvements/technology you will come across - and this includes brief histories on their origin and application.
There's a game called Colonization - which tracks the empire-building exploits of the European powers on the American continent. While a game first and foremost, it also provides a level of information on Colonial America which goes beyond a mere introduction. Historical Characters and events are discussed at length, and I learned things from this game that were equivalent to high school texts I later read (which were certainly less fun).
Ever wondered what life was like for a formula 1 driver in 1967? Grand Prix Legends lets you experience it all - tracks that take over 8 minutes to lap, cars that can accelerate on par with modern f1 machines, yet corner and brake like a model t, the limited decisions you could make to improve your car's handling...

Note that none of these is substitute for a proper book on the subject, but then a documentary isn't going to give you that much depth either... Besides, this can be a fun way to learn.

beck0311
2004-Jan-13, 04:33 AM
But for me the bigest reason i play games is that it is the biggest way i relieve stress.

Sure. If there is one thing I have learned is that different people relieve stress in different ways. Years agoI had two roomates, one of them, like me, relieved stress by running. The other one, after a particularly stressful day, would veg out in front of the TV in his room (usually after about three hours he was good to go). Once I came home from work and found the former giving the latter grief for not being able to correctly handle stress ("...everybody knows that excercise is the only way to reduce stress!"). I think that it is probably just a personality thing.

I will say this much for video games. I agree with Glom, they are probably better than just watching TV, since you are participating as opposed to passivly absorbing "information". And they are way better than MTV (or EmptyV, as my friend calls it).

freddo
2004-Jan-13, 04:35 AM
Beck, when I look to relieve stress, I will choose any of those activities as a recourse - broad tastes I guess.

Humphrey
2004-Jan-13, 05:30 AM
well other ways i relieve stress is to read a good novel, watch tv, or swim. But those are secondary. A good 10 min at a game and i am nearlyu stress free. :-)

Kebsis
2004-Jan-13, 10:04 AM
Medieval: Total War goes into astounding detail about the history of the time and place the game takes place in. Not only that but they make it a point that all the units in the game correctly represent the technologies and units the countries actually used.

Wally
2004-Jan-13, 12:56 PM
Hank: you really should try Call of Duity. Leagues beyond MOHAA and the multiplayer is top notch. Believe me you will be drooling from the first level on!

If you do get it, tell me and we can play multiplayer sometime. :-)

Have either of you checked out America's Army yet? If you're into the multiplayer experience, this is it! Every character is an actual human. My friend and I usually try to get on the same server when we can, then on the same team. It's great!

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-13, 12:57 PM
There definitely is a very huge lull in pc gaming. currently the popularity of consoles outstrips pc gaming by yards and miles. heck compare the gaming only stores recently. Nowadays what used to be half the sotre being pc games is now at the most on row of shelves.

Very true, and for good reason. I have all four consoles that games are currently released for (yes, I am definitely looking forward to Psyvariar 2 on the Dreamcast later this month). Each time I consider upgrading my PC to something a bit more modern, I conclude that (a) the only thing that really runs unacceptably slowly are a few games, and (b) a new graphics card, even before the new motherboard, processor, memory and hard drive upgrades, costs about as much as two consoles, and yet I prefer the games in their console incarnations.


Look at what happened to HALO. It origonally was going to be a PC first, and only game. But as soon as the X-Box was produced, Microsoft and Bungie switched over to the X-box. This left the PC waiting 3 years for HALO to come to it.

Sorry, but no. Originally Halo was an RTS for the Mac. Bungie got bought specifically to get Halo onto the XBox, though I agree that the exclusive time came later.



I mean think of it this way. You have the opeiton to make your game for the PC or console. For the PC you will sell it for $50 and thats all you make from that. IF you make it for a console there is a good chance to can sell it for thae same price, plus a hefty profit addition by a deal with the console maker.

You actually make more per sale on the PC, as you pay Nintendo / Sony / Microsoft about $10 per copy, not vice versa. What makes console games so profitable is that PC games very, very rarely sell in anything like the same numbers. If it weren't reasonably easy to port the XBox release to PC then I doubt you'd see one at all in most cases.



As more people become sophisticated gamers, and more games come online as multiplayer oriented they will start to realize the advantages of online games on the pc over the consoles.

Again, I've got to disagree. I've had my fill of PC games, and got sick of fighting with GameSpyware and ingame server browsers, inconsistent voice support and rude teenagers. In contrast, I've had a much better experience on XBox Live, where you have a single easy point of entry to find friends online, everything "just works" and everyone has a headset. For some reason, everyone seems much more polite when it comes to amiably chatting away racing around the streets of Paris, rather than hitting hotkeys to type random gynaelogical impossibilities on CounterStrike.


just plain cost saving of being a PC gamer.

:lol:

Like I said, you can have any console for less than the price of a good graphics card, let alone the rest of the PC. And in the UK at least PC games have crept up until they are almost as expensive as their console brothers.

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-13, 01:01 PM
Medieval: Total War

This is just utterly brilliant, I agree. To contrast with my rather vehemently pro-console rant above, there are some games that still work best on the PC, and this is one of them. I don't even particularly like strategy games (another reason to abandon the PC, where everything is either strategy or FPS now, it seems) but the depth of historical info is fascinating. I'm looking forward to Rome, as long as it works on my box.

ZaphodBeeblebrox
2004-Jan-13, 02:51 PM
As more people become sophisticated gamers, and more games come online as multiplayer oriented they will start to realize the advantages of online games on the pc over the consoles.

Again, I've got to disagree. I've had my fill of PC games, and got sick of fighting with GameSpyware and ingame server browsers, inconsistent voice support and rude teenagers. In contrast, I've had a much better experience on XBox Live, where you have a single easy point of entry to find friends online, everything "just works" and everyone has a headset. For some reason, everyone seems much more polite when it comes to amiably chatting away racing around the streets of Paris, rather than hitting hotkeys to type random gynaelogical impossibilities on CounterStrike.

Studies have shown that Typing is, at least partly Sub-Vocal, meaning that the Brain puts Fewer Checks on what is Conveyed through that Medium; when people Actually Have to Talk, the Normal Safe-Guards kick in, which is One Reason why I Always Sound Out what I am Typing before I Actually Write it, I put My Foot in My Mouth, Often Enough, as it is.

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-13, 03:00 PM
As well as that, though, if you're saying things out loud, you can actually say useful and interesting things to each other, rather than either relying on hotkeys (which aren't necessarily appropriate), or actually taking time out to type, which people are less likely to do, and the whole game ends up rather sterile.

Tone of voice is another thing, too - when playing with people I vaguely know, or even just getting along with, someone can say "arrgh! you little (rude word), you cut me right up!", while clearly just being good-natured joking; doing so in text easily leads to flamewars.

Amadeus
2004-Jan-13, 03:13 PM
As well as that, though, if you're saying things out loud, you can actually say useful and interesting things to each other, rather than either relying on hotkeys (which aren't necessarily appropriate), or actually taking time out to type, which people are less likely to do, and the whole game ends up rather sterile.

Tone of voice is another thing, too - when playing with people I vaguely know, or even just getting along with, someone can say "arrgh! you little (rude word), you cut me right up!", while clearly just being good-natured joking; doing so in text easily leads to flamewars.

I agree. The biggist attraction of Xbox live for me was the voice chat which has been flawless. I only have an 1/2 meg connection and I never get lag!

And also typing "arrgh! you little (rude word), you cut me right up!" whilst driving in a race is not exactly practical!

Too bad it's Microsoft though.........

dvb
2004-Jan-13, 03:21 PM
I was addicted to video games when I was like 8 to 16 years old. Then I just kind of grew out of video games, and now I just don't seem to have the attention span for them. When I was 16, computers were just starting to become mainstream with the internet, and I think my interests shifted from there.

HankSolo
2004-Jan-13, 03:28 PM
Here's my new motto:
"Everything I've learned, I've learned from video games"

:lol:

It's actually kind of true, in a way. More on that later.

There was a question about history in video games. Games like Civilization can actually teach some important facts about civilizations to those who didn't know them. There was some pretty hefty text giving you information about the civs, their culture, their buildings, and their wonders, throughout the game. Wargames obviously teach about historical battles in a way that no textbook can, since it immerses you in the battle as the commander, and it is up to you to figure out how to win it.

Back to "everything I learned...": I manage a large IT group in one of the largest companies in the world. We're as cutting edge as the government allows us to be. But everything technical that I know now, I owe to my interest in PC games as a kid. I never went to college for it, it was all self-taught. And it all started because I needed to fix and/or modify my pc's to allow me to play certain games. I remember modding my Vic-20 and Commodore 64 cases because they would overheat. My first PC was an old XT that someone threw away because they couldn't fix it. Same with my first AT. I wanted to play Empire back then, so I figured it all out (it ended up being something as simple as the hard disk type!). All my interest in the Wintel industry started from a love of computer games, and the hardships I faced in getting them to work on my systems.

Mr. X
2004-Jan-13, 03:43 PM
Here's my new motto:
"Everything I've learned, I've learned from video games"
So you carry a knife, a handgun, a shotgun, a machine gun, an assault rifle, a heavy machine gun, a rocket launcher, a grenade launcher, mines, grenades and C4? :D

And when you have all that on you and meet a locked wooden door you say: "I gotta find that key!" regardless of if the door is a one centimeter thick piece of plywood and has a rustic old lock that could be picked by a five year old? :D

Somehow that key always happens to be around. :D Good thing the guy carrying it didn't make it off the planet in time. :D

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-13, 03:48 PM
Here's my new motto:
"Everything I've learned, I've learned from video games"
So you carry a knife, a handgun, a shotgun, a machine gun, an assault rifle, a heavy machine gun, a rocket launcher, a grenade launcher, mines, grenades and C4? :D

Nope, Halo teaches us that to carry the machine gun, we need to recklessly abandon the handgun, since we can only carry two weapons at once. :)

Amadeus
2004-Jan-13, 04:19 PM
Here's my new motto:
"Everything I've learned, I've learned from video games"
So you carry a knife, a handgun, a shotgun, a machine gun, an assault rifle, a heavy machine gun, a rocket launcher, a grenade launcher, mines, grenades and C4? :D

Nope, Halo teaches us that to carry the machine gun, we need to recklessly abandon the handgun, since we can only carry two weapons at once. :)

Never, Never drop the hand gun its the best one!

Mr. X
2004-Jan-13, 04:47 PM
There's not even any ammo for that damned pistol! They come up every thousand or so miles of walking, especially on legendary difficulty!

Amadeus
2004-Jan-13, 05:01 PM
There's not even any ammo for that damned pistol! They come up every thousand or so miles of walking, especially on legendary difficulty!

Just shoot any marines you see! They always have some :lol:

The only hard part of legendary I found was that last stage where you have to race in the jeep. Kept getting there 1 second too late until I discovered that you didn't have to wait half way through for the drop ship thing!

I still go back to the libary level with the flood for fun on legendary

SollyLama
2004-Jan-13, 09:02 PM
I see most movies and all but a few minutes of television as a huge waste of time. To me, a video game is pretty much like being a part of an action movie instead of just watching it.
I find myself reaching for the Xbox to play Madden rather than sit and watch a game on TV. The outcome of either is irrelevant, so why not interact?
I can't really play sports anymore due to injury, so my choice is watch them or 'play' them on TV. I prefer the interaction.
My wife, who hates video games, took a liking to Buffy the Vampire Slayer for the Xbox. She loved the series and the game is basically an interactive tour of one of the episodes.
Video games are more and more movie-like. Interaction with the story is the next step in entertainment. Plus, you will relate much more to a character you control and develop through a story than any actor hamming it up in a movie.
Could I be doing something else? Sure. But all of that could equally be considered wastes of time like motorcycling (or just wrenching on it) or playing bass.
The other part of video games is that you can compete with people. I'm very competitive, but with limited ways to express it. My big thing was motocross until I nearly lost my leg to it. I need the challenge of actually being able to lose (but lose nothing of value) on occasion.

Humphrey
2004-Jan-13, 09:05 PM
Ian: i can't wait for rome:total war too. Just the appeal of having a elephant trample a row of troops is way too apealing. :-)

Being a console junkie what do you think about the idea of one game being relased on all systems at one time?

xbck1
2004-Jan-13, 10:01 PM
What about people's opinions on the different consoles? I prefer the PS2 over the Gamecube, and the Gamecube and PS2 over the Xbox. Not because the PS2 and Gamecube have better graphics but just because of the games and the controllers.

The PS2 controller has the most plain, easy layout. It's also got those four shoulder buttons that do come in oh so handy. I like this console the best because it has so many great games and you can also play the ones for PS1 on it. So, we have backward compatability, gobs of great games, an almost (almost) flawless controller, good graphics, and Solid Snake.* What more do you need?

The Gamecube controller is comfortable, but a little thin, and the buttons are weird. The graphics seem to be basically the same as those of the PS2, but it has fewer games and it can't play DVD's like the others.

The Xbox controllers (big or small) just feel terrible. It's like holding a couple of elongated eggs with plastic gummy bears for the buttons. Sure, the graphics are great and it's a powerful machine, but it's just a glorified PC with less features for cripes sake! Plus, it's giant. I mean, look at the thing! It's the size of a VCR! Plus it's a Microsoft product.

PlayStation is the gamers' game system. Gamecube is the kids' game system (so far). Xbox is Uncle Bill's game system.**



*Yes, I do realize that there's going to be a remake of Metal Gear Solid for the Gamecube. It's just that PS2 has more Metal Gear. :)

**No, I do not have any love for Microsoft.

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-14, 09:22 AM
Being a console junkie what do you think about the idea of one game being relased on all systems at one time?

I've got all the machines because there are games exclusive to each that I want to play. I bought a PC capable of games to play Quake, a Playstation to play Wip3out, an N64 for Mario64, a Dreamcast for Crazy Taxi, a Gamecube for Super Monkey Ball, a PS2 for GTA 3 and an XBox for Panzer Dragoon Orta.

This isn't a terribly good way to spend money, however, and so I see definite benefits in everyone being able to buy a game, irrespective of which machines they have. The counter to that is that often the best games are exclusive. This is partly because many of the best developers are either owned or part-owned by the hardware manufacturers, who realise that the reason most people by their console is to play a game they can't otherwise.

But its also partly because a game can be better on a purely technology level if its aimed at a specific piece of hardware. Half Life doesn't feel right without a mouse and keyboard (and conversely, Halo isn't right without the pad). Rogue Leader on the GC is heavily based around the capabilities of the ATi chipset's features. The N64 pad was specifically designed for Mario64, and so on.

So its a mixed blessing. Overall, though, I frown on exclusivity, because it only helps breed "my console is better than your console" arguments. In reply to xbck1's question, I'd answer that each machine has its own strengths. The Cube is a wonderfully designed box, and the Wavebird is the single biggest improvement in consoles since the analogue pad. Nintendo are games design geniuses, and its the best place to get your Japanese weirdness. The PS2, as the market leader by a massive amount has just about every game style available on it, and some brilliant mainstream titles. And the XBox, for all the anti-Microsoft feelings many had, has the oomph to do some things the others can't, XBox Live is utterly, utterly wonderful, and is the first console to really fit into a Home Cinema setup with its Dolby 5.1 and hi-def support.

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-14, 09:32 AM
Gamecube is the kids' game system (so far).

Oh, and sorry - I can't let that one go past. Its just not true. The secret of Nintendo is to write games that are suitable for everyone, but with a depth of gameplay that everyone can get involved in. Just because its not unsuitable for kids doesn't mean that adults should be any less interested. Have you considered leaving the BABB because it doesn't allow swearing? Super Monkey Ball, Viewtiful Joe and Ikaruga are three of the most hardcore, old-school games you'll find this generation, based around subtlety of control, playability, and good-old-fashioned high-score competition. They are real 'gamers' games, if ever there were.

Plus, there is the small factors of Resident Evil and Eternal Darkness. Don't let your kids near those things, that is for certain.

xbck1
2004-Jan-14, 05:56 PM
Sorry about the weird things I keep saying on this thread, school just started and I've been having a tad too little sleep as of late. But I still stand by my saying that Gamecube is the kid's game system. They do produce some very adult titles for it, but with the likes of Mario, Kirby, or many of the other ones, it just seems as if they're aiming for the kids with that console. I don't think that the thing being purple when they released it helped with that either.

Perhaps they can change my mind when I buy one later this year to play Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes and other earlier titles.


By the way, do you suppose I'm a Metal Gear junky?


Thpewwing ish nott wun ov my stwongew twaitsh.

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-15, 08:31 AM
Sorry about the weird things I keep saying on this thread

Sorry I slightly over-reacted; I guess I had my fill of console wars back in the Spectrum vs. C64 days. The Gamecube is indeed the best console for kids to have, but I just didn't want people to think it was in any way less suitable for adults as a consequence. Cartoonish titles like Zelda, Pikmin and Mario have some seriously deep gameplay hiding behind their bright enticing graphics.

Kebsis
2004-Jan-15, 09:06 AM
Humphrey wrote:
Look at what happened to HALO. It origonally was going to be a PC first, and only game. But as soon as the X-Box was produced, Microsoft and Bungie switched over to the X-box. This left the PC waiting 3 years for HALO to come to it.


Sorry, but no. Originally Halo was an RTS for the Mac. Bungie got bought specifically to get Halo onto the XBox, though I agree that the exclusive time came later.



Maybe I'm reading this wrong, but Bungie was working on Halo as a third-person shooter for the PC before it was bought by Microsoft, which was when they decided to make it a first person shooter for the Xbox. How far into development was it before they decided to change it from a RTS for the Mac into a third person shooter for the PC?

And I feel about the same about Medieval as you; normally I dislike stradegy games, but that was an exception and a half.

Shogun:Total War was good too, in case you haven't tried it.

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-15, 12:31 PM
The condensed version of Halo's development goes something like this

a) Bungie start work on an RTS game in full 3D.
b) Quickly decide that it would be really cool if you were in amongst the battlefield working as a commander and also controlling stuff directly (very much like Carrier Command on the ST and Amiga, if anyone remembers that).
c) Its around about now that they decide to switch from Mac only to doing a PC version as well, as there frankly isn't a massive amount in Mac-only games.
d) The RTS side gets more and more dwindled, due to a combination of practicality and also because the gameplay is getting too schizophrenic.
e) Around where its looking like a pretty straight FPS but in an AI-controlled warzone, Microsoft see its potential, and shower them in cash and XBox dev kits (which at this point were just GeForces in PCs anyway). These two things persuade them to make XBox the primary platform, and to port back to Mac and PC once the XBox version is done.
f) Bungie and Microsoft find Halo to be such a success that much of the porting to PC and Mac is farmed out, because the core team are now doing Halo 2.

In case I've missed anything, or people want more details, there was a rather brilliant Making Of article in Edge a while back.

Amadeus
2004-Jan-15, 12:52 PM
Sorry I slightly over-reacted; I guess I had my fill of console wars back in the Spectrum vs. C64 days.

Yeah it was a stupid argument back then.
Everybody knew that the Speccy was the best!

I miss colour clash! :lol:

Anybody here ever finish Jet Set Willy?

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-15, 01:52 PM
Anybody here ever finish Jet Set Willy?

Without hitting one of the many and varied bugs first? Nope. Level 19 of Manic Miner was evil, too.

Amadeus
2004-Jan-15, 01:55 PM
Anybody here ever finish Jet Set Willy?

Without hitting one of the many and varied bugs first? Nope. Level 19 of Manic Miner was evil, too.

As far as I knew you had to get the objects from the Hades room before you went to the atic room. once you went to the attic you could go to hades without losing all your lifes!

The fact that I remember that 15 years on is scary! :o

And that "music"..... I can still hear it!

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-15, 02:02 PM
In case anybody is interested here (http://www.xmixdrix.com/manicminer/) is a version of Jet Set Willy/Manic Miner for Win95

Amadeus
2004-Jan-15, 02:18 PM
In case anybody is interested here (http://www.xmixdrix.com/manicminer/) is a version of Jet Set Willy/Manic Miner for Win95

I've seen that before.... Prefer the original. With added colour clash! :lol:

Sigma_Orionis
2004-Jan-15, 03:27 PM
In case anybody is interested here (http://www.xmixdrix.com/manicminer/) is a version of Jet Set Willy/Manic Miner for Win95

I've seen that before.... Prefer the original. With added colour clash! :lol:

So do you play it on an ZX Spectrum emulator?

Jobe
2004-Jan-15, 03:39 PM
I had the original speccy, and later a zx spectrum +3. It was AWESOME.

Anyone remember:

Cokatoni Wilf
Ant Attack
CodeMasters games including
- Championship jetski simulator
- Atv simulator

Amadeus
2004-Jan-15, 04:08 PM
In case anybody is interested here (http://www.xmixdrix.com/manicminer/) is a version of Jet Set Willy/Manic Miner for Win95

I've seen that before.... Prefer the original. With added colour clash! :lol:

So do you play it on an ZX Spectrum emulator?

I used to but soon got bored with it. Nostalga does not bare close examination!

Head over heels was great! Anybody remember a 3D game construction kit?

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-16, 08:49 AM
I don't remember that, but there is a frankly brilliant new version of HoH available from Retrospec, if you want to play it again with some rather more snazzy graphics. HoH definitely still stands up as a classic.

Amadeus
2004-Jan-16, 11:43 AM
I don't remember that, but there is a frankly brilliant new version of HoH available from Retrospec, if you want to play it again with some rather more snazzy graphics. HoH definitely still stands up as a classic.

You got an URL for that?

Iain Lambert
2004-Jan-16, 01:52 PM
Sorry, no. Its blocked by the work filter. Google should be your friend, however, if you search for Head Over Heels remake retrospec or something. Its all approved by Ritman and Drummond, so they've not had to give it some nonsense name to minimise the chances of lawsuits.

jawher7
2011-Feb-02, 05:41 PM
lol its kinda funny to post a reply 7 years late x) but its a task given by my dear english teacher . He wanted me to give my opinion abt this video game issue .. So consider me an 'alien from tha future :D
Hmmmm ,technologically speaking , i'd say that video games today have improved in a marvellous way ! the release of hyper cool consoles such as PS3.0 , XBOX 720/370 , Wii 2 Mod Kotomi , TecknoSphere .. made ppl think twice be4 buyin any of them . In fact , recent studies show that they're too dangerous for players especially children . Once exposed to one of these consoles , be sure your child/friend/whoever .. will no longer live in our real world ! Its like he's gonna get brainwashed :S These alianating machines are irresistible !! idk how they function cuz i never tried to play/buy any of 'em but i've been informed from many parents who purchased some of these consoles that it has changed the way their kids live : its like they're no more interested in anything but video games ! playing , sleepin , Eating , Playing, eatin , plaYin , sleepin , playing .. ofc they neglect their studies and in some advanced addiction cases , children drop out school and devote their lives for vg. I assure u I am not faking this , why wld i waste my time fakin stories anyway ? Well , new generations of advanced consoles are gonna be launched soon . So , please be very careful when dealing with these terrific tiny gadgets .

Inclusa
2011-Feb-03, 07:00 AM
BTW, quiting games several years ago have been improving my general life quite a bit.