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tashirosgt
2009-Jul-13, 05:08 PM
Years ago (more than twenty), I read a small book called "Dr. De Bono's Thinking Course". Later I saw a short program about this subject on PBS. I found the book interesting and helpful. I also recall mentioning this one of the old Compuserve forums and the reaction was rather hostile.

The reaction was along the lines that Dr. De Bono was just making obvious statements. My interpretation of the reaction was that it confirmed what Dr. De Bono said. He pointed out that intelligent people fall into the habit of quickly making up their mind on whatever topic comes up in conversation and then displaying great virtuosity at defending their position. ( This is a somewhat insulting observation about intelligent people and the Compuserve group (SCI/MATH) was an intelligent bunch.) .

De Bono offered a useful self discipline for creative thinking that he called "PMI" ("plus", "minus", "interesting"). In addition to the "plus" and "minus" sides of any idea, the thinker is asked to think of aspects of it that are "interesting" without having any strong "plus" or "minus" implication.

I think the PMI method is simple and perhaps obvious, but I also think it is very useful. I'm saying this from the perspective of a resident of USA. De Bono never got much publicity here. If his advertising had been along the lines of Billy Mays, perhaps I would have only thought "M" about his book. i notice Edward De Bono has a website, a very plain one. It advertises his successes in various Latin American countries. I think he is from the U.K. Is he a prophet without honor in his own country? Was he a fad? Was his advertising full of exaggerated claims?

sarongsong
2009-Jul-13, 05:21 PM
...i notice Edward De Bono has a website...Is it a secret? :rolleyes:

kleindoofy
2009-Jul-13, 09:30 PM
... intelligent people fall into the habit of quickly making up their mind on whatever topic comes up in conversation and then displaying great virtuosity at defending their position. ...
Errr, that's true of the *almost* intelligent.

True intelligence is characterized by a high grade of self-criticizm and a constant weighing of pro's and con's coupled with an attitude of accepting views contrary to one's own if, upon careful and critical scrutiny, they appear equal or better.

ohdotoh
2009-Nov-07, 08:20 AM
DeBono was refering to a tendency of people with High IQ to jump to a conclusion and then argue for it because they are really good at arguing. It's not too different from doing things the hard way and failing to find short cuts because it's so easy to do it the hard way. It's a warning about tendencies, not a prediction about inevitability. For a great example see the furor over the Let's make a deal problem and Marilyn Vos Savant.

But of course, no truly smart person would ever fall for the no true scotsman fallacy.

mugaliens
2009-Nov-07, 12:06 PM
But of course, no truly smart person would ever fall for the no true scotsman fallacy.

Interesting statement, considering your last!

hhEb09'1
2009-Nov-07, 01:47 PM
For a great example see the furor over the Let's make a deal problem and Marilyn Vos Savant.Another great example is Fermat's Last Theorem and Marilyn Vos Savant. She has yours on her home page (http://www.marilynvossavant.com/), but not mine...

kleindoofy
2009-Nov-07, 04:21 PM
Ms. Savant, who’s listed in the Guinness Book of World Records Hall of Fame for "Highest IQ" (228), answered "Yes."
http://www.letsmakeadeal.com/problem.htm

She may have a high IQ, but judging by the picture on that page, she certainly didn't use any of it when she picked her hairdresser. :eek:

Paul Beardsley
2009-Nov-07, 04:45 PM
I haven't read the thinking course book, but I have read a good deal of his Serious Creativity. I was impressed by what I read.

I think the problem is that lateral thinkers (such as the good doctor) make statements which are obvious in retrospect. His critics probably wouldn't get the solution to the, "Can you make an egg stand on end on a flat surface?" puzzle, but would pat themselves on the back for giving the correct answer to, "Will an egg stand up if you break it in order to flatten one end?"

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-07, 05:09 PM
.... no true scotsman fallacy ...Known as that "no true Englishman" fallacy, here in Scotland. I do believe the name would have been more willingly accepted if it hadn't been invented by an Englishman and applied to the Scots. :lol:

With regard to de Bono, he comes from Malta originally. He enjoys quite a lot of popularity in business circles internationally, where his methods are used to encourage creative thinking. I'm aware of suggestions that he has never produced any scientific evidence of the effectiveness of his techniques, but I haven't looked into that myself.

Grant Hutchison

mike alexander
2009-Nov-07, 05:37 PM
Known as that "no true Englishman" fallacy, here in Scotland. I do believe the name would have been more willingly accepted if it hadn't been invented by an Englishman and applied to the Scots. :lol:

With regard to de Bono, he comes from Malta originally. He enjoys quite a lot of popularity in business circles internationally, where his methods are used to encourage creative thinking. I'm aware of suggestions that he has never produced any scientific evidence of the effectiveness of his techniques, but I haven't looked into that myself.

Grant Hutchison

My bold.

Having sat through so many business courses on creative thinking, I can't accept this as evidence. Like total number of books published and foreign translations produced, it may only prove Barnum's Theorem.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-07, 05:51 PM
Having sat through so many business courses on creative thinking, I can't accept this as evidence. Like total number of books published and foreign translations produced, it may only prove Barnum's Theorem.Umm. Aren't we both saying the same thing?
Businessmen buy, read and use the books, with the avowed intention of encouraging creative thinking in themselves and others.
As far as I'm aware, there's no evidence that creative thinking actually occurs in response to this encouragement.
Or are you saying something else?

Grant Hutchison

Strange
2009-Nov-07, 05:58 PM
The only measurable results de Bono seems to have are memory improvement (or, at least, memory tricks). Which doesn't seem particularly useful apart from party tricks or selling books.

I think he is also responsible for popularizing "mind maps" - which would be fine if people just used them as a learning tool as he intended (for those whose brains work that way). But people have started using them as a way of communicating information; which means you get presented with a random jumble of ideas that made sense to someone else.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-07, 07:21 PM
I think he is also responsible for popularizing "mind maps" ...I think that was Tony Buzan. I made a lot of my school science notes in mind maps, after watching Buzan's TV series "Use Your Head". Worked well for me, and I still understand the original notes. But I certainly wouldn't inflict my maps on anyone else.

Grant Hutchison

mike alexander
2009-Nov-07, 07:22 PM
Umm. Aren't we both saying the same thing?
Businessmen buy, read and use the books, with the avowed intention of encouraging creative thinking in themselves and others.
As far as I'm aware, there's no evidence that creative thinking actually occurs in response to this encouragement.
Or are you saying something else?

Grant Hutchison

You seem to be right. I plead insufficient coffee. Or maybe not thinking creatively enough.

Over the years I have developed a contact allergy to business improvement books, seminars and online pseudo MMPI categorizations. My goal is to hang on to retirement, not improve.

grant hutchison
2009-Nov-07, 07:41 PM
Over the years I have developed a contact allergy to business improvement books, seminars and online pseudo MMPI categorizations. My goal is to hang on to retirement, not improve.I think it was PJ O'Rourke who defined the pathognomonic triad for the "desperate businessman" (of either sex). They can be sighted in every airport lounge in the world: smart suit, scuffed shoes, and a hardback copy of the latest business-fu book (carrying; never reading).

Grant Hutchison

Strange
2009-Nov-07, 08:35 PM
I think that was Tony Buzan.

You are quite right. He was the memory freak as well. Oh, well. I can't tell one psycho-babble from another.

publiusr
2009-Nov-09, 10:06 PM
I think it was PJ O'Rourke who defined the pathognomonic triad for the "desperate businessman" (of either sex). They can be sighted in every airport lounge in the world: smart suit, scuffed shoes, and a hardback copy of the latest business-fu book (carrying; never reading).

Grant Hutchison

Their bosses are even worse, the "I'm a winner! Smartest-Man-in-the-room" Type-A folks. It has been my observation that often as not--the better the businessman, the worse the human being. The folks most deserving of money--reasearchers, often don't have the right marketing skills and couldn't sell a pencil to a schoolchild. That's why we have taxes.