PDA

View Full Version : Black Hole Drive Could Power Future Starships



Fraser
2009-Nov-19, 07:30 PM
br clear = "all">What would happen if humans could deliberately create a black hole? Well, for starters we might just unlock the ultimate energy source to create the ultimate spacecraft engine — a potential* "black hole-drive" –* to propel ships to the stars.It turns out black holes are not black at all; they give off [...]

More... (http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/19/black-hole-drive-could-power-future-starships/)

WaxRubiks
2009-Nov-19, 07:53 PM
could a black hole really be formed by just using photons?

Drunk Vegan
2009-Nov-19, 07:56 PM
Looks that way. I remember reading about this in a Pohl book that used it as a plot device. A black hole formed solely from energy at high density is referred to as a Kugelblitz, and apparently was referred to in Einstein's GR equations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kugelblitz_(astrophysics)

trinitree88
2009-Nov-19, 08:11 PM
Simply impossible. You would have created them regularly in the cosmic ray flux throughout the history of the universe and we have no data or hard physical evidence that that has ever happened, or is presently happening. Nitwit science. Goes right in there with 2012, Nessie, Ogopogo, Bigfoot, Caloric, Phlogiston, Polywater, dark energy, inflationary spacetime....and all the other hulabaloos. Evolution is real. We are following the nitwit path to economic bankruptcy, sand castle after sand castle washing away with the tides. Eventually a starfaring civilization will happen upon the empty cities, wondering how that happened.:doh: pete

Lindon
2009-Nov-19, 09:19 PM
We are following the nitwit path to economic bankruptcy, sand castle after sand castle washing away with the tides. Eventually a starfaring civilization will happen upon the empty cities, wondering how that happened.:doh: pete


I just fired up my old "Making One's Own Black Hole" question with a reference to this article, asking if it's realistic. I guess I know your answer, which I tend to agree with for no scientific reason, but just because it seems too fantastic to me. Not a very scientific analysis, I know.

I'm going to agree with you on your quoted (by me) point above. It does seem that way trinitree88, and humanity is left to solve these serious issues on our own -- and that certainly appears to be the case -- I don't think we're going to see any resolution. Too many competing interests, too many entrenched stakeholders with power to manipulate the outcome, etc..

Sad, maybe a little scary, but true.

IsaacKuo
2009-Nov-19, 09:58 PM
Simply impossible. You would have created them regularly in the cosmic ray flux throughout the history of the universe
It's technically possible, and no--throughout the history of the universe cosmic ray flux would never have been sufficient to produce a black hole. Simply not powerful enough.

I don't remember the exact numbers, but I recall the requirements are truly mind-boggling. The method I've heard of before involves colliding four heavy particles using particle accelerators many light years in length.

This alternate method would seem to reduce the energy requirements by trying to cram the energy into a much smaller volume. In order to do that, this scheme uses gamma ray lasers. Why gamma rays? Because only high energy gamma rays would have wavelengths sufficiently small to do the job.

Problem--we have no idea how to make a gamma ray laser, much less a star-sized spherical gamma ray laser perfectly aimed onto a single point.

But if we assume the development of gamma ray laser technology...well, it's theoretically possible.

But no, this will never be a practical option for interstellar propulsion. It would make much more sense to use those gamma ray lasers to directly propel the starship. A gamma ray laser could focus a beam down to a millimeter in size out across the galaxy. This concentrated energy could be used to vaporize puffs of propellant into relativistically expanding plasma; this in turn pushes against the starship's magnetic field to produce thrust.

timb
2009-Nov-19, 11:37 PM
br clear = "all">What would happen if humans could deliberately create a black hole? Well, for starters we might just unlock the ultimate energy source to create the ultimate spacecraft engine a potential* "black hole-drive" * to propel ships to the stars.It turns out black holes are not black at all; they give off [...]

More... (http://www.universetoday.com/2009/11/19/black-hole-drive-could-power-future-starships/)

Fantasy. If you have the capacity to capture and store years' worth of solar output, what do you need the black hole for? You could use your megasuperhyper laser to propel objects at high rapidity.

trinitree88
2009-Nov-20, 12:39 PM
[QUOTE=IsaacKuo;1626838] SNIPPET....
Problem--we have no idea how to make a gamma ray laser, much less a star-sized spherical gamma ray laser perfectly aimed onto a single point.

But if we assume the development of gamma ray laser technology...well, it's theoretically possible.
SNIPPET

ISAAC. check out link:http://www.hafniumisomer.org/cqeseg3.htm

there's lots more but ....:naughty::shifty::silenced::think:


pete

dgavin
2009-Nov-20, 03:20 PM
Fantasy. If you have the capacity to capture and store years' worth of solar output, what do you need the black hole for? You could use your megasuperhyper laser to propel objects at high rapidity.

I think the point was that once it is formed, you just keep feeding it matter to it keeps a constant size, and the black hole converts the matter into energy for you without any additional eneger input into the black hole (other then the matter).

In essence, once you have a black hole formed, you can use it to make as much energy as you need from matter/energy conversions. The eventual return on energey would be far greater then the initial input to form the beastie. As long as you had matter to feed it at the correct rate, you could genereate energy indefinately. Basically the gravity well functions as the matter/energy reactor, so the reall trick is to keep it stable and feed it enough to prevent it from eveaporating away.

However I think it's more liekly that someone will figure out ZPE long before getting to a point of making, storing, and utilizing something like this.

publiusr
2009-Nov-20, 08:09 PM
And the Romulans had a lot of problems with theirs anyway--let alone what happened with the EVENT HORIZON
http://www.edmiarecki.com/event-horizon/