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Peter B
2002-Apr-10, 11:48 PM
Folks

Can someone confirm the time of day (GMT would be good!) when Eagle touched down, and when Armstrong took the first step.

ALSJ has the Ground Elapsed Time as roughly 102h 45m and 109h 24m for these events, but without a start time, it's a bit hard to be sure of the time of day when these events happened.

The reason for the question is that it's my understanding that my brothers watched the landing and the moon walk live on TV at school here in Canberra (which is GMT + 10 hours). But this HB I've been discussing things with is convinced that what they watched wasn't live, which allows it to fit in with the story of the woman in Western Australia (GMT + /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif who said she was watching it all live late at night.

(I understand the launch of Apollo 11 was early morning local time, which would put the landing at mid- to late- morning Canberra time, I think. But I need someone to confirm my maths.)

Thanks!

James
2002-Apr-11, 12:10 AM
On 2002-04-10 19:48, Peter B wrote:
Folks

Can someone confirm the time of day (GMT would be good!) when Eagle touched down, and when Armstrong took the first step.

ALSJ has the Ground Elapsed Time as roughly 102h 45m and 109h 24m for these events, but without a start time, it's a bit hard to be sure of the time of day when these events happened.

The reason for the question is that it's my understanding that my brothers watched the landing and the moon walk live on TV at school here in Canberra (which is GMT + 10 hours). But this HB I've been discussing things with is convinced that what they watched wasn't live, which allows it to fit in with the story of the woman in Western Australia (GMT + /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif who said she was watching it all live late at night.

(I understand the launch of Apollo 11 was early morning local time, which would put the landing at mid- to late- morning Canberra time, I think. But I need someone to confirm my maths.)

Thanks!

I don't know the time of when it happened on Earth, but I do know, by the times you put up above, you couldn't have seen the landing and the first step all in one school day, unless you saw the landing first thing when you got to school and stayed a bit after school to watch the first step.

I think.

AstroMike
2002-Apr-11, 12:22 AM
Apollo 11 Facts (http://www.nasm.si.edu/apollo/AS11/a11facts.htm).

The Apollo 11 landing occurred on July 20, 1969, 20:17:40 GMT, and Armstrong's first step on July 21, 1969, 02:56:15 GMT.

Peter B
2002-Apr-11, 03:02 AM
Thanks AstroMike.

< Looks at own post; "GMT + /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_cool.gif"; smiles >

So a landing at 20.17 GMT would be at 4.17am West Australian Standard Time, and the first step would've been at 10.56am WAST. I can imagine people in the West would've got up at 2 or 3am to watch the landing, but I'd be calling that early in the morning, not late at night.

And it's perfectly conceivable for my brothers to have been watching everything at school...

< shakes head >

Why can't HBs do even the slightest amount of research to check their theories? That was quite easy to work out...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Peter B on 2002-04-10 23:03 ]</font>

Peter B
2002-Apr-11, 03:47 AM
Aaah dadgummit (to quote a couple of Apollo astronauts). I should read what I'm sent.

The guy I've been speaking with had a time for the Apollo 11 landing which agreed with me, but he just messed the maths up. He was out by 12 hours, making it seem like West Australians would've been watching this late pm when they would've been watching late am.

2002-Apr-11, 09:37 AM

johnwitts
2002-Apr-11, 10:01 PM
That daft woman in Australia reckons she waited up to see the moon walk. As it happened at lunchtime in Australia, she should have gotten a good nights sleep, done her shopping, and still been home in time to see a mid day moon walk. She's as daft as a brush.

AstroMike
2002-Apr-11, 11:12 PM
It's also amazing that she made out a Coke bottle with such bad television quality. Does anyone know where's the Australian newspaper article about this that I've heard?

Peter B
2002-Apr-12, 01:16 AM
johnwitts: "Daft as a brush"; I like that one, and may have to use it in the future! /phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif

Astromike: Here in Canberra is the National Library, which has a large number of newspapers on microfilm. I intend to wander down there some time and see if they have the "West Australian" available. I think they would.

As to whether there's any such letter, I doubt it. The whole story just has too much of the ring of an urban myth. I'd be more keen for the HBs who promote this story to provide source material, rather than requote it.

DaveC
2002-Apr-12, 12:46 PM
She may be "as daft as a brush" or more likely she doesn't even exist. But if she DOES exist, now that National Geographic has been able to find the "Afghan Girl", maybe they could use those investigative skills to find the "Coke bottle woman" and see what she really thinks she saw.

As johnwitts said, it would be impossible to make out a coke bottle in those A-11 videos. Anyway, I'd bet Neil would have had better training than to draw attention to the stage crew's lunch detritus by kicking it in full view of the camera.

And let's see - Canberra got the first signals because it was facing the moon when the EVA occurred, so she saw the "unedited" version. But the EVA was actually done at area 51 - and NOBODY noticed the coke bottle until the signal had been dummied over to Australia. Does any part of this woman's story make any sense at all?

AstroMike
2002-Apr-13, 02:50 AM
On 2002-04-12 08:46, DaveC wrote:
As johnwitts said, it would be impossible to make out a coke bottle in those A-11 videos.
Actually, I said that Dave.

It's also amazing that she made out a Coke bottle with such bad television quality.
Anyway, this woman's story makes no sense whatsoever. She couldn't seen the Moon walk late at night, if it occurred sometime around lunch in Australia. And I have no idea where she gets this "Coke bottle" thing from.

The Rusty Lander
2002-Apr-13, 05:25 AM
The coke thing may've been inspired by the Australian movie "The Gods Must Be Crazy"

JayUtah
2002-Apr-13, 02:10 PM
The topology of the MSFN makes her story extra suspicious. In the versions of the EVA video we see, the video clears up immensely as Houston switches from the Goldstone telescope (whose signal was too hot and was being clipped) to Honeysuckle Creek. The story implies that Australia was getting its signal live from the MSFN field station, but according to the MSFN documents the field stations provided only direct uplinks to Houston. There was no provision for commercial Australian television stations to tap directly into the decoded USB.

Of course that's not to say it would have been impossible, or that it wasn't actually done, but there is no record of its having been done on any occasion, and therefore it represents another point of suspicion to the story (as if there weren't already enough).

Peter B
2002-Apr-14, 10:24 PM
Well, draw your own conclusions:

Over the weekend I visited the National Library, and read microfilm of the “West Australian” from 1 July to 10 August 1969.

And one thing struck me very quickly. Perth, the capital city of Western Australia, is a very isolated city (and rather parochial – one recent article described someone as a Victorian who’d lived in Perth for thirty years). It was even more isolated in 1969. In fact, if memory serves me correctly, it wasn’t until the mid-1970s that the highway between Western Australia and the eastern states of Australia was sealed. The same isolation applied to communications.

While most of the Apollo 11 stories in the paper discussed the mission itself, the second most discussed topic related to the Moon landing was whether West Australians would get to see the landing live. At this time, there was no co-axial cable or microwave link between Western Australia and the eastern states. As one editorial discussed, this meant that for any major event (such as the recent installation of Prince Charles as Prince of Wales), West Australians had to wait for a video of the event to be flown over to Perth from the east coast, resulting in a delay of anything up to 8 hours. Even after Apollo 11 lifted off, there was no certainty as to whether the landing would be telecast live.

The problem of the lack of a link to the eastern states was being addressed, but the link wasn’t due to be completed until some time in 1970. However, there were a couple of solutions. One was to rely on a communications satellite which was due to be launched shortly after Apollo 11 was launched. The other was to jury-rig a link from NASA’s ground station at Carnarvon (about 1000km north of Perth) to Perth. This would require a degree of co-operation between the Australian Broadcasting Commission (the government owned broadcaster), the Overseas Telecommunications Commission (a government owned telecommunications authority), NASA, and probably the local commercial television stations. It would also suggest that TV stations in Perth got their signal directly from Carnarvon, rather than via Houston like everyone else, but I'm not sure one way or the other.

As it happened, the launch of the satellite was delayed, and a live telecast looked unlikely. But at almost the last minute the jury-rigged business was sorted out and the live telecast went ahead. There was some criticism of the state government’s education minister for not giving school children the day of the landing off school to watch at home, but school principals said they weren’t too concerned with high absentee rates that day, as there was an influenza outbreak going around schools anyway.

In the letters to the editor, the few which related to the Moon landing were discussing only whether the cost was worth it. There were no articles or letters about fakery, and none of the letter writers was called Una Ronald.

If anything struck me about the tone of all the Apollo 11 articles in the paper, it was simply how many unknowns there were about a Moon landing. What would the astronauts do if they were stranded? How much mobility would the suits give the astronauts? Would the Moon’s low gravity help or hinder the astronauts? Would the Moon infect the astronauts with unknown germs? What dangers might the lunar dust pose? In hindsight, some of these concerns would seem overstated, but beforehand, all bets were off. But funnily enough, no one mentioned radiation as a concern.

Incidentally, Rusty Lander, while we Aussies are happy to claim all sorts of movies as our own, we can’t claim “The Gods must be Crazy”. That’s a South African movie.

2002-Apr-15, 09:45 AM
a name="20020415.3:2"> page 20020415.3:2 aka the .edu of Mac's
On 2002-04-14 18:24, Peter B wrote: To: PST
Well, draw your own conclusions:
Sunday at 8PM PDT
I watched the CBS TV program
the education of Max BigFord{sp}
kind of about the dumming DOWN
and the "_POT_" issue {Drug Tail}