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Argos
2010-Jan-22, 04:00 PM
Jens, the Bassist is John Paul Jones [Led Zeppelin].

tommac
2010-Jan-22, 08:17 PM
PS who is the bassist in your avatar?

John Paul Jones !!!

Jens
2010-Jan-25, 06:50 AM
Jens, the Bassist is John Paul Jones [Led Zeppelin].

Thanks. I've heard of that band somewhere.

No, I guess I should have known. I used to play stuff by him when I was in high school, in the early 1980s.

tommac
2010-Jan-25, 04:34 PM
Thanks. I've heard of that band somewhere.

No, I guess I should have known. I used to play stuff by him when I was in high school, in the early 1980s.

The guy is one of the greatest rock Bassists! ( If not the best ). I would put him much higher than entwistle or geddy lee ( sp? ).

Jens
2010-Jan-26, 03:25 AM
The guy is one of the greatest rock Bassists! ( If not the best ). I would put him much higher than entwistle or geddy lee ( sp? ).

A bit off-topic I guess. But I don't agree. I would rate Geddy Lee higher (though I hate his voice!) I would also rate Chris Squire higher. And Tony Levin. But it's somewhat subjective.

tommac
2010-Jan-26, 04:12 PM
A bit off-topic I guess. But I don't agree. I would rate Geddy Lee higher (though I hate his voice!) I would also rate Chris Squire higher. And Tony Levin. But it's somewhat subjective.

Yes somehow subjective ... however Neither Chris Squire, nor Geddy Lee are anywhere close. The thing is with bass is that the instrument is meant to be subtle. When you hear fancy licks, imho, it is really more of a guitar / lead role rather than the role of the bass. Bass players like Paul McCartney are, again imho, much more talented because of their melodic skills. The bass lines that Paul plays are so subtle that thier complexity is totally hidden. Listen to the bass in "dear prudence" or "here comes the sun".
John Paul Jones has a mix of melodic playing but also with some crazy bass lines. Listen to the bass in "What is and what should never be" or "Ramble on"

The bass lines are subtle but powerful.

Anyway ... like you said it is subjective.

sarongsong
2010-Jan-27, 12:59 AM
The guy is one of the greatest rock Bassists...All sons of the blues' double-bassist
...in the whole round world there is only one, and
I'm the one, yes, I'm the one...Willie Dixon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_The_Blues), (IMHO, of course). http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

slang
2010-Jan-27, 01:32 AM
And Tony Levin.

He did some great stuff, not just with Peter Gabriel. Frank Zappa had a couple of real good players too. And there were a few real good ones in Brand X, but that hardly qualifies as rock. As in, not at all. But pretty damn good anyway. :)

tommac
2010-Jan-27, 01:33 AM
All sons of the blues' double-bassistWillie Dixon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_The_Blues), (IMHO, of course). http://www.bautforum.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Known more for his song writing than his bass playing though. For the most part he is just straight blues, nothing too out of the ordinary ....

But one hell of a song writer.

Middenrat
2010-Jan-27, 01:50 AM
Don't laugh, but the guy who backed Abba had the knack of playing perfectly appropriate notes that still left you puzzled as to what they were, just like Macca and JP Jones.
Thanks to slang for mentioning Brand-X, I must revisit my vinyl collection soon.

Jens
2010-Jan-27, 04:38 AM
Yes somehow subjective ... however Neither Chris Squire, nor Geddy Lee are anywhere close. The thing is with bass is that the instrument is meant to be subtle.

In a sense, though, that says something about your opinion and my opinion about the proper role of the bass. A lot of bassists say that Jaco Pastorius was the greatest bass player ever, but he was definitely not subtle. So I think it is in a lot of ways a difference of views. And it's a totally normal thing, because otherwise everybody would like the same music. I can agree that Chris Squire may lack in subtlety. Tony Levin is cool in that he does both, but it's a different situation because Chris Squire is actually the kind of leader of Yes (or at least co-captain), whereas Tony Levin has a very different role in KC than he does when he's playing for PG.

Jens
2010-Jan-27, 02:25 PM
I thought I would add something to this, because after participating in the conversation I was thinking. It's funny that we make these comparisons. In a way, playing instruments has an artistic element, so it doesn't really make sense to ask who is the best. Just imagine discussing whether Van Gogh or Picasso is better. With a person like Chris Squire, he would be annoying in some contexts, but his playing is part of the whole element that Yes is. So I don't think that saying that so-and-so is better than so-and-so really is so important. Would be really want all bassists to be the same?

redshifter
2010-Jan-27, 03:43 PM
Chris Squire: Great Bass player, lousy dresser (at least on my Yes concert DVD's, and the times I've seen Yes in concert). I met Squire after a concert a few years ago.

Aside from King Crimson, etc., Tony Levin also does some great bass playing on the Liquid Tension Experiment CD's.

I agree that it's difficult to say which bass player is 'best'; different bands have different roles for their bass player.

Argos
2010-Jan-27, 04:23 PM
Chris Squire: one of the best. Those baroque, intertwined melody lines in Yes´ songs are precious. But please let us not overlook another great bassist: Paul McCartney [his line on "Something" says it all].

tlbs101
2010-Jan-27, 04:42 PM
When I read the thread title, I thought the question was about BAUT members who play bass. I play bass in my church band, but it's a lot of simple, easy, stuff.


... A lot of bassists say that Jaco Pastorius was the greatest bass player ever, ....

I am one of those who think Jaco is the greatest -- at least in the top 5 -- for sheer skill level. I only wish I had some of his abilities (and I don't think I could attain some of it even after years of practice).

.

closetgeek
2010-Jan-27, 07:14 PM
Yes somehow subjective ... however Neither Chris Squire, nor Geddy Lee are anywhere close. The thing is with bass is that the instrument is meant to be subtle. When you hear fancy licks, imho, it is really more of a guitar / lead role rather than the role of the bass. Bass players like Paul McCartney are, again imho, much more talented because of their melodic skills. The bass lines that Paul plays are so subtle that thier complexity is totally hidden. Listen to the bass in "dear prudence" or "here comes the sun".
John Paul Jones has a mix of melodic playing but also with some crazy bass lines. Listen to the bass in "What is and what should never be" or "Ramble on"

The bass lines are subtle but powerful.

Anyway ... like you said it is subjective.

I am the exact opposite; I love a dominant bass sound. One of my favorite bands is Primus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55CH_8YOBQc&feature=related) because I love Les Claypool's slap/funk sound.

Trantor
2010-Jan-27, 08:57 PM
In my opinion, Geddy Lee was the best rock bassist, followed closely by Chris Squire. Another one of my favorites is John Entwistle.

slang
2010-Jan-27, 09:44 PM
I am the exact opposite; I love a dominant bass sound. One of my favorite bands is Primus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55CH_8YOBQc&feature=related) because I love Les Claypool's slap/funk sound.

[AOL mode]Me too![/AOL mode]. Les (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P0EmTvgUILQ)' raw style has some .. honesty. Saw one short bit of live performance of "Over the Falls (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAKxOw6qtRA)" on a German satellite channel years and years ago, and I was sold..

I also agree with Jens. I think it's difficult to come up with some objective measure to decide who's best. How to make up for the different taste in whether a bass should be dominant or subtle? Or both? :) I have no preference as to who's best, to me it's more "i like" or "boooring". Perhaps it's possible to come up with a few "best" players in one particular style, but I think even that would be difficult.

So, some more names in no particular order of preference: Flea (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FrI5lNvCnQ) and Victor Wooten (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw8ytGHTbNc) (there's another video on youtube where one string breaks, and he just continues as if it makes no difference at all).

Jens
2010-Jan-28, 01:15 AM
In my opinion, Geddy Lee was the best rock bassist, followed closely by Chris Squire. Another one of my favorites is John Entwistle.

Why do you say "was"? I hope he hasn't died while I wasn't looking! Or is he not active anymore?

Jens
2010-Jan-28, 01:16 AM
Chris Squire: Great Bass player, lousy dresser (at least on my Yes concert DVD's, and the times I've seen Yes in concert).

Definitely right on about the dressing! Not that the other members of Yes are much better.

closetgeek
2010-Jan-28, 01:22 AM
Ooh Slang, I like that Victor Wooten solo. It sounds so Allman Bros-ish.

Trantor
2010-Jan-29, 07:08 PM
Why do you say "was"? I hope he hasn't died while I wasn't looking! Or is he not active anymore?

My bad Jens. Geddy Lee is indeed alive and well. The guy is simply amazing. I have seen Rush in concert three times; it's truly incredible what those three artists can do on stage.

Yes is also amazing, but they have more musicians to carry the load.

PS- I've always prefered Rick Wakeman's dress atire to Chris Squire's!

Click Ticker
2010-Jan-29, 07:39 PM
I am the exact opposite; I love a dominant bass sound. One of my favorite bands is Primus (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55CH_8YOBQc&feature=related) because I love Les Claypool's slap/funk sound.

Primus Sucks!!!!

Fans know what I mean.

Jens
2010-Jan-30, 02:06 AM
My bad Jens. Geddy Lee is indeed alive and well. The guy is simply amazing. I have seen Rush in concert three times; it's truly incredible what those three artists can do on stage.


I saw them once. It was actually the first rock concert I ever went to. It was the Permanent Waves tour.

And I've never seen Yes in concert. It's the one band that I really want to see that I never have seen. I was going to try to see them when they came to Japan maybe five years ago, but Jon Anderson hurt his back or something and they had to cancel it.

ginnie
2010-Jan-30, 03:04 AM
I'm a bass player too, its such a different mindset than playing the guitar.

I won't rate bassplayers on ability, but rather who I like listening to on record. Some of mine (besides ones already mentioned) are:

Chris Glen of the Sensational Alex Harvey Band - simplistic but powerful - Chris knew what not to play.

Dennis Dunaway of Alice Cooper - give "Halo of Flies" a listen! The whole band was very talented and don't get much credit for that.

Geezer Butler of Black Sabbath - I love the loud and dominant bass on their first album.

tommac
2010-Jan-31, 02:48 AM
Am have just had a different discussion ( on another board ) where it was discussed how good paul mccartney is. I for one think he is one of best bass players ever. There were arguments stating that Jaco is so much better and that is where our opinions differed. My point is that the Guitar or keyboard or whatever else is the solo instrument. Jaco is playing the Bass like a solo instrument.

Paul McCartney, John Paul Jones, and James Jamerson and others of course ... play bass as it is intended to play ... part of the rhythm section.

If you dont pay attention you may not even notice they are playing. But in all reality they are driving the song. That is what I think makes a great bass player. Yeah Jaco is good ... but how many people can actually sit though his stuff and say they REALLY like it.


In a sense, though, that says something about your opinion and my opinion about the proper role of the bass. A lot of bassists say that Jaco Pastorius was the greatest bass player ever, but he was definitely not subtle. So I think it is in a lot of ways a difference of views. And it's a totally normal thing, because otherwise everybody would like the same music. I can agree that Chris Squire may lack in subtlety. Tony Levin is cool in that he does both, but it's a different situation because Chris Squire is actually the kind of leader of Yes (or at least co-captain), whereas Tony Levin has a very different role in KC than he does when he's playing for PG.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Jan-31, 11:52 AM
I would say that it is a sign of great arrogance to claim to know how an instrument is "intended" to be played.
You may personally prefer to hear it played in a certain way, but that in no way gives you the right to claim that that's the only way it's supposed to be played.

Similarly it's basically impossible to compare artists if they use their instruments in different ways, since the comparison will be between the different ways of playing rather than between the artists themselves.

For example I've noticed that Mark King hasn't been mentioned yet, which I take to mean that most contributors aren't fans of the funk slap bass style rather than an indication they think he's not amongst the very best of that style and an artist who definitely treats the bass as a valid solo instrument.

tommac
2010-Jan-31, 05:13 PM
Yawn ... Arrogance? :whistle:

Let me draw an analogy to basketball. Look at someone like tracy mcgrady. or Stephon Marbury some may say they are/were among the best basketball players to have ever played the game, this is totally subjective.

The deal is how did they contribute to the overall benefit to the team? Both of them in my opinion have made thier teams worse even though their individual efforts could have been amazing. compare this to kobe or jordan. True there are people who can solo on basses ... that is fine, however soloing in general is totally overrated and definitely indulgent.

A band is made of a rhythm section and some leads ... Who is better a drummer who can do amazing solos and is only mediocre when the rest of the band is playing OR a drummer who makes the entire band better when he is playing but maybe plays more subtle solos.

Both Paul McCartney and John Paul Jones both make the rest of the band better when they are playing. In fact I would go as far as stating that Paul McCartney made the Beatles what they were MUSICALLY ...

Jaco and Mark King ( who? ) ( why not Bootsy Collins if you want to talk about slap bass ) have nowhere near the success of either Paul McCartney or John Paul Jones. Again, Jaco may be the best bass soloist ... but how many people want to hear bass solos ( outside of pretentious bass players ).

I am not saying that this is the only way to play bass guitar ... I am saying that the success of the bass guitarist has to be rated on the way in which the bass playing / rhythm section supports the band.








I would say that it is a sign of great arrogance to claim to know how an instrument is "intended" to be played.
You may personally prefer to hear it played in a certain way, but that in no way gives you the right to claim that that's the only way it's supposed to be played.

Similarly it's basically impossible to compare artists if they use their instruments in different ways, since the comparison will be between the different ways of playing rather than between the artists themselves.

For example I've noticed that Mark King hasn't been mentioned yet, which I take to mean that most contributors aren't fans of the funk slap bass style rather than an indication they think he's not amongst the very best of that style and an artist who definitely treats the bass as a valid solo instrument.

tommac
2010-Jan-31, 05:17 PM
Chris Glen of the Sensational Alex Harvey Band - simplistic but powerful - Chris knew what not to play.

This is a great quote :


what not to play.

I really feel much of the funk is built on silent gaps.
A good bassist can brake music down to its most fundimental state and understand when the music sounds better playing less. Less = more.

tommac
2010-Jan-31, 05:20 PM
I saw them once. It was actually the first rock concert I ever went to. It was the Permanent Waves tour.

And I've never seen Yes in concert. It's the one band that I really want to see that I never have seen. I was going to try to see them when they came to Japan maybe five years ago, but Jon Anderson hurt his back or something and they had to cancel it.


I have seen both ... and both are great bass players ... Personally i think Chris Squire is the better of the two.

Another non-traditional bass player but more modern is:
Les Claypool ...

tommac
2010-Jan-31, 05:23 PM
Check out this little clip of Bootsy Collins :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHE6hZU72A4
I admit that this isnt GREAT stuff ... but shows a little about the simplicity of Bass

You can compare this with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk

The later is much more impressive ... but if you are playing it with a band which can do more?

edit:
Just for completeness check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5XeVLJeMdE

which sounds amazingly like the previous clip.

tommac
2010-Jan-31, 05:37 PM
Now listen to ( listen for the bass ):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39P9vpH5aCw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtUMa0FtuWY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzkhOmKVW08

slang
2010-Jan-31, 11:32 PM
Another non-traditional bass player but more modern is:
Les Claypool ...

tommac, why don't you read the replies first... before you hit the reply button? Les was first mentioned in post #16.


Jaco and Mark King ( who? ) ( why not Bootsy Collins if you want to talk about slap bass ) have nowhere near the success of either Paul McCartney or John Paul Jones.

What the heck does amount of success have to do with how good someone is, in mastering his skill? Look, if that's the measure you'd like to put on things, then there will be no more discussion. Just pick an albums sold number, and point out who's the winner. I think most of us in this thread are talking about players they feel are (among) the best, according to their taste.


Check out this little clip of Bootsy Collins :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IHE6hZU72A4
I admit that this isnt GREAT stuff ... but shows a little about the simplicity of Bass

Yo juz dun dig dah P-funk! Of course it isn't "GREAT stuff". Bootsy is just explaining what FUNK is. The basics. On the one. How is this different from someone explaining the basic rhythms in rock, and how you can play around with those?


You can compare this with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk

The later is much more impressive ... but if you are playing it with a band which can do more?

And this is a completely different music style. But thanks for showing some Mark King, it was due. :) "Which can do more?" Well, that depends on what kind of music you like, doesn't it? And in which setting. People who would go crazy with joy during a Parliament performance might be bored to death at a Level 42 gig. And vice versa.

BTW: I think Level 42 sold a lot more albums here than Parliament. It must be better, no? ;)


Just for completeness check out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5XeVLJeMdE

which sounds amazingly like the previous clip.

You have got to be kidding. Just because both use a slap style?! Les Claypool sounding like Mark King.. Can't be. Primus sucks much more.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Jan-31, 11:47 PM
You can compare this with:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yioVmqlt2Fk

The later is much more impressive ... but if you are playing it with a band which can do more?
For completeness, try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKI8pFqWm0s which is the complete version of the Mark King clip tommac posted, not just the solo intro but also the part where he plays with the band.

And for that matter this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP-Vhv6dBys which shows what he can do when improvising together with a completely different set of instruments than he's used to.

slang
2010-Feb-01, 12:11 AM
A band is made of a rhythm section and some leads ...

Ah, ok then. I've just reported John Wetton and the rest of King Crimson to the music police. Guilty of the crime of every instrument, including voice, at some point contributing both to rhythm, and leading. I'm still wondering what to do about Ryuichi Sakamoto and Jean Michel Jarre, since they use keyboards for pretty much every role. Oh, they're not a band. Alright. Kraftwerk in shackles it is, then.

Thanks Henrik, missed that awesome 2nd link on TV. Was waiting for him to slap a sitar though. :)

Someone share some fretless goodness please!

HenrikOlsen
2010-Feb-01, 01:01 AM
Someone share some fretless goodness please!
Fretless goodness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K-ZuraldENM). Alain Caron on his 6 string fretless.
Likely to disturb those who think a bass should be in the background and have 4 strings. :)

Oh, and just found this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtmsyMxsEdU), not fretless but breaks just about all of tommac's rules about what a bass is supposed to be for.:D Jacques Bono playing J. S. Bach Violoncello Suite Nr. 5 - Courante BWV1011

closetgeek
2010-Feb-01, 01:26 AM
Fretless goodness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITQd2NtbOKA). Alain Caron on his 6 string fretless.
Likely to disturb those who think a bass should be in the background and have 4 strings. :)

Oh, and just found this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtmsyMxsEdU), not fretless but breaks just about all of tommac's rules about what a bass is supposed to be for.:D Jacques Bono playing J. S. Bach Violoncello Suite Nr. 5 - Courante BWV1011

Wow, Slang, that first link was awesome! I didn't know a bass could sound like that.

Tommac, that's a pretty bizarre position to take considering most bands and musicians made their mark by breaking the so-called rules of playing.

slang
2010-Feb-01, 01:28 AM
Hehe.. nice, thanks! Synthaxe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SynthAxe) next? Alan Holdsworth? :)

Wish I was more familiar with the cello suite to appreciate that piece. Cello rox. Even when it leads.

slang
2010-Feb-01, 01:30 AM
Wow, Slang, that first link was awesome! I didn't know a bass could sound like that.

Henrik posted it, even though I might admit to being instigator.. but yes, fretless bass is a class in itself, IMHO. Beauty to be felt in the gut.

Jens
2010-Feb-01, 01:41 AM
If you dont pay attention you may not even notice they are playing. But in all reality they are driving the song. That is what I think makes a great bass player. Yeah Jaco is good ... but how many people can actually sit though his stuff and say they REALLY like it.

I understand what you're saying, and definitely agree that listening to a Beatles song is much more pleasant (to me) than a Jaco Pastorius song. But I also don't think it's wrong to play a bass as a solo instrument, and that that can be valued albeit in a different way.

Actually, I think that in many songs Chris Squire does drive the song and allow others (Howe, mostly) to mess around. Some of the songs on Drama (a very underrated album, IMO) have bass lines that kind of drive the song.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:22 AM
For completeness, try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKI8pFqWm0s which is the complete version of the Mark King clip tommac posted, not just the solo intro but also the part where he plays with the band.

And for that matter this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP-Vhv6dBys which shows what he can do when improvising together with a completely different set of instruments than he's used to.

This exactly proves my point. Total garbage ( for most ). Absolutely zero melodic talent.

Put up those songs with those bass lines up against just about any Beatles song, not really sure how you even think that guy is good with the band?

For the most part that song is just a technique ... he is good at slapping with the right hand and he can play fast.

This is like comparing Vivaldi with Charlie Daniels.

transreality
2010-Feb-01, 03:24 AM
I thought Stanley Clarke was acknowledged as the greatest bass player ever... maybe that's a few years ago now.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:27 AM
Fretless goodness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITQd2NtbOKA). Alain Caron on his 6 string fretless.
Likely to disturb those who think a bass should be in the background and have 4 strings. :)

Oh, and just found this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtmsyMxsEdU), not fretless but breaks just about all of tommac's rules about what a bass is supposed to be for.:D Jacques Bono playing J. S. Bach Violoncello Suite Nr. 5 - Courante BWV1011

yawn ... the point is does it really sound good? No ... it would sound better on a piano, guitar or just about any other instrument ...

Why havent more people followed in their footsteps? Is it because it is so difficult that no once else could play it? Or is it because nobody cares ...

How many people have learned to play like McCartney or JPJ or James Jamerson ... this is learning to play the instrument rather than learning to convert the bass into some other instrument.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:28 AM
I thought Stanley Clarke was acknowledged as the greatest bass player ever... maybe that's a few years ago now.

He was good ... but I would argue that it was more based on the speed of his playing than his melodic abilities ... i would definitely think that James Jamerson is way more talented.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:30 AM
I will give you Chris Squire ... I do agree he is awesome! and do agree that he does drive the song and make the other instruments better.


I understand what you're saying, and definitely agree that listening to a Beatles song is much more pleasant (to me) than a Jaco Pastorius song. But I also don't think it's wrong to play a bass as a solo instrument, and that that can be valued albeit in a different way.

Actually, I think that in many songs Chris Squire does drive the song and allow others (Howe, mostly) to mess around. Some of the songs on Drama (a very underrated album, IMO) have bass lines that kind of drive the song.

transreality
2010-Feb-01, 03:35 AM
He was good ... but I would argue that it was more based on the speed of his playing than his melodic abilities ... i would definitely think that James Jamerson is way more talented.


Hard to say 'way more' when talking about people of this calibre. Stanley is not so much speed, but total mastery of the instrument, making it do things no one else had. Plus those 'Venusian Queen/School days' songs would be quite subtle melodically. Another one worth mentioning is, Larry Graham, inventing slap, but he is not so subtle or arty, but the sheer power he gets from manhandling the bass is just awesome.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:47 AM
What the heck does amount of success have to do with how good someone is, in mastering his skill?

Look ... art is subjective ... quality is a direct experience independent of and prior to intellectual abstractions. The fact that almost nobody likes any of the music you put up signifies a level of quality, poor quality.

The music you put up if just a bunch of style and tricks. After 100 years how many of the songs you mention will still be listened to? I would bet the Beatles, Zep, Yes and Motown(JJ) still survive. How many musicians will be influenced directly and indirectly by JPJ,PM,CS,JJ? Sure some people will learn the style variations from your guys ... but that is about it.

At the end of the day ... is the sound that they are making pleasurable?
You may say that there are experts and their opinion count for more as they know what they are talking about ... but in the end quality can be measured and should be measured about how pleasurable they sound.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:53 AM
Hard to say 'way more' when talking about people of this calibre. Stanley is not so much speed, but total mastery of the instrument, making it do things no one else had. Plus those 'Venusian Queen/School days' songs would be quite subtle melodically. Another one worth mentioning is, Larry Graham, inventing slap, but he is not so subtle or arty, but the sheer power he gets from manhandling the bass is just awesome.

Jamerson has more than just a couple of songs ... he has been the drive for countless hits. He has also influence a huge number of bass players.

The book:
http://www.amazon.com/Standing-Shadows-Motown-Legendary-Jamerson/dp/B0018QG414
is a standard for inspiring musicians ... and you can tell by the names of the people that contributed to that book that he was pretty good.

BTW check out this bass line:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqtELR5GyfI

doesnt sound like much like this but this one of the most perfect bass lines written ever.

transreality
2010-Feb-01, 04:01 AM
Jamerson has more than just a couple of songs ... he has been the drive for countless hits. He has also influence a huge number of bass players.


He invented the bassline for "heard it on the grapevine", not much more need be said.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 04:01 AM
Tommac, that's a pretty bizarre position to take considering most bands and musicians made their mark by breaking the so-called rules of playing.

If you can pull it off ... miles davis, ike turner ,the beatles ( mcCartney )
however you have people that do stuff that could be hard to play style wise ... but just doesnt sound great after you listen to it for a few seconds.

Sometimes it is simplicity that plays a more important role for example someone like Henryk Górecki

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 04:04 AM
He invented the bassline for "heard it on the grapevine", not much more need be said.

PARTIAL discography:
My Girl - Temptations
Bernadette - 4 Tops
Aint That Peculiar - Marvin Gaye
Ooh Baby Baby - The Miracles
To Many Fish In The Sea - The Marvelettes
Uptight (Everything Is Alright) - Stevie Wonder
Heat Wave (U) - Martha & The Vandellas
This Old Heart Of Mine - Isley Brothers
I Heard It Through The Grapevine (2 recordings) - Marvin Gaye, Gladys Knight & Pips
Where Did Our Love Go (U) - Diana/Supremes
Since I Lost My Baby - Temptations
For Once In My Life - Stevie Wonder
My Guy (U) - Mary Wells
Your Precious Love - Marvin Gaye/Tammy Terrell
You've Really Got A Hold On Me - The Miracles
Love Child - Diana/Supremes
I Guess I'll Always Love you
Dancing In The Streets - Martha & The Vandellas
Don't Mess With Bill - The Marvelettes
What's Going On - Marvin Gaye
Standing In The Shadows Of Love - 4 Tops
Mickey's Monkey (U) - The Miracles
Cloud Nine - Temptations
Nothing's To Good For My Baby - Temptations
My Baby Loves Me - Martha & The Vandellas
You Keep Me Hanging On - Diana/Supremes
You Beat Me To The Punch - Mary Wells
Little Darling (I Need You) - 4 Tops
I'm Ready For Love
The Way You Do The Things You Do - Temptations
I Can't Help Myself - 4 Tops
Roadrunner - Jr. Walker & The All-Stars
You're All I Need To Get By - Temptations
You Can't Hurry Love - Diana/Supremes
Shop Around - The Miracles
Ain't To Proud To Beg - Temptations
My Cherie Amour - Stevie Wonder
It's The Same Old Song - 4 Tops
How Sweet It Is - Marvin Gaye
Take Me In Your Arms (And Rock Me A Little While) - Brenda Holloway
Ain't No Mountain High Enough (2 recordings) - Marvin Gaye/Tammy Terrell, Diana/Supremes
My Baby Must Be A Magician - The Marvelettes
Love Is Like An Itching In My Heart - Diana/Supremes
Beauty Is Only Skin Deep - Temptations
Ask The Lonely - 4 Tops
Going To A Go-Go - The Miracles
I was Made To Love Her - Stevie Wonder
Hitch Hike - Marvin Gaye
I Second That Emotion - The Miracles
Please Mr. Postman - The Marvelettes
Jimmy Mack (U) - Martha & The Vandellas
I Hear A Symphony - Diana/Supremes
Shake Me, Wake Me (When It's Over) - 4 Tops
I'm Gonna Make You Love Me - Temptations
Get Ready - Temptations
The Hunter Gets Captured By The Game
Stop! In The Name Of Love - Diana/Supremes
That's What Love Is Made Of
Nowhere To Run - Martha & The Vandellas
Seven Rooms Of Gloom - 4 Tops
Pride & Joy - Marvin Gaye
(I Know) I'm Losing You - Temptations
Two Lovers - Mary Wells
I'll Turn To Stone - 4 Tops
Come See About Me - Diana/Supremes
Stubborn Kind Of Fellow - Marvin Gaye
How Long Has That Evening Train Been Gone
If I Were your Woman Gladys Knight & The Pips
My World Is Empty Without You - Diana/Supremes
The Tracks Of My Tears - The Miracles
I'm Wondering - Stevie Wonder
Can I Get A Witness - Marvin Gaye
The Girls Alright With Me - Temptations
Shoo Be Doo Be Doo Da Day - Stevie Wonder
Reflections - Diana/Supremes
What Becomes Of The Broken Hearted - Jimmy Ruffin
Baby I Need Your Loving - 4 Tops
Quicksand... - Martha & The Vandellas
Reach Out...I'll Be There - 4 Tops
You Beat Me To The Punch - Mary Wells
The Bells - The Originals
Shotgun - Jr. Walker & The All-Stars
Fingertips (pt2)- Stevie Wonder
Hey Girl - Stevie Wonder
What Are You Gonna Do When I'm Gone (U) - Kim Weston (submitted by Chuck Whaley)
Still Water Runs Deep - Four Tops (Chuck Whaley)
All in the Game - Four Tops (Chuck Whaley)
My Baby - Temptations
The One Who Really Loves You (U)- Mary Wells
This Old Heart Of Mine - Isley Brothers
My Whole World Ended (The Moment You Left) - David Ruffin
It Takes Two (U) - Marvin Gaye/Tammy Terrell
Honey Chile - Martha & the Vandellas
To Busy Thinking About My Baby - Marvin Gaye
When Your Young And In Love - Marvelettes
Ain't Nothing Like The Real Thing - Marvin Gaye/Tammy Terrell
Still Waters Run Deep - Four Tops
If I Were Your Woman - Gladys Knight & the Pips
I Want You Back - Jackson 5 (see below)
It's Growing - The Temptations (thanks to Catherine J. Lewis)
Agent Double O Soul - Edwin Starr(thanks to Catherine J. Lewis)
I Can't Get Next To You - Temptations (thanks to John Coe)
I want A Love I can Feel - Temptations (thanks to Anthony Parker)
Heart Breaking Guy - Supremes (thanks to Anthony Parker)

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 04:13 AM
It is all like a beauty pageant.
There is: evening gown, swim suit, and interview

Mark King might look great in a bikini but he doesnt have the grace to wear a gown nor the class to pass the interview. ;-) Depends what you are looking for.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 06:33 AM
Fretless goodness (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITQd2NtbOKA). Alain Caron on his 6 string fretless.
Likely to disturb those who think a bass should be in the background and have 4 strings. :) 70% of that "bass" playing is not even part of the bass clef.

Also why doesnt he just play a sitar?

Jens
2010-Feb-01, 06:42 AM
I don't know why the person doesn't play a sitar. Interesting factoid, though: sitar and guitar are originally the same word.

Off-topic but related question. Why do people still play the French horn? IMHO it's a horrible-sounding instrument, and almost impossible to play.

HenrikOlsen
2010-Feb-01, 10:18 AM
Also why doesnt he just play a sitar?
Totally different sound which would sound bad with the music he plays.
I knew the 6 strings would offed your sensibilities too.:) I should have posted a clip with one of the 11 string basses. :D

You know, your arguments still haven't progressed much beyond "I don't like that style, so they aren't good" and while I have no trouble at all with the first half of that statement, the second half is wrong because you're still judging from a false perspective.

ritchyrev
2010-Feb-01, 01:50 PM
Hmmmm? Bass players.
I see no one has mentioned any Metal players.
How about Cliff Burton, Billy Sheehan, or Steve Harris.

I know they aren't as good as Sir Paul according to Tommac, but no bass player ever will be. Actually, Sir Paul is ok for what he did, but just not my thing.

Mettallica successful? No, they should have replaced Cliff with Sir Paul before he died. :sad:
Paul Gilbert, Mr Big, Steve Vai, David Lee Roth successful? No, they should have replaced Billy with Sir Paul.
Iron Maiden successful. Nope, Sir Paul would have done a much better job than Steve.

These were or are all extremely successful bands. I guess a lot of people like them. The bass players are a main part of their sound.

However, time marches on, times and musical tastes change and broaden for some. These guys were good for their time and style,but the new guys like

Timo Lehtinen Kalmah
Henkka Seppälä Children Of Bodom
Peter Iwers In Flames

and any of the current metal players I think are right up there.Is any one better than the other? Nope,just different.

How about William Murderface ?
Any one who has seen DethKlok, will know he is the greatest Bass player ever. You have to see how he plays slap bass:clap:

I guess the point is Tommac, that your idea what constitutes a great bass player and mine are totally different. And that is what makes music fun, A style for every one.

One question Tommac. What is your definition of melodic? You seem to use this term a lot when describing bass players.

Click Ticker
2010-Feb-01, 02:10 PM
Someone share some fretless goodness please!

Les Claypool plays a six string fretless named, "The Rainbow Bass" on Jerry was a Racecar Driver.

Doug Pinnick of King's X plays a 12 string instrument that I don't know quite what to call. It serves the roll of bass in the band, but the strings are in four groups of three and played as a combination rhythm guitar and bass. He's good at what he does. It's a three piece band with a drummer and lead guitar rounding out the group.

http://www.hamerguitars.com/?fa=detail&mid=410

I believe that's the instrument.

Argos
2010-Feb-01, 02:15 PM
Sting is also a great bass player. Somebody mentioned Stanley Clarke, but I think this discussion is about "pop" music players [a controversial distinction, since some Jazz flavors are pretty pop nowadays]

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:50 PM
I don't know why the person doesn't play a sitar. Interesting factoid, though: sitar and guitar are originally the same word.

Off-topic but related question. Why do people still play the French horn? IMHO it's a horrible-sounding instrument, and almost impossible to play.
It has a unique sound. I personally like it. It is funny ... because I asked my 5 year old son what instrument he wanted to play and he said the french horn.

why do the french make things so complicated?

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:53 PM
Totally different sound which would sound bad with the music he plays.
I knew the 6 strings would offed your sensibilities too.:) I should have posted a clip with one of the 11 string basses. :D

You know, your arguments still haven't progressed much beyond "I don't like that style, so they aren't good" and while I have no trouble at all with the first half of that statement, the second half is wrong because you're still judging from a false perspective.

No the argument is that Bass is to play in the Bass range. A 6 string ( one extra high and one extra low ? ) that is being played mostly in the high end is IMHO not really bass. Fine he can use some tricks to say he is a bass player but really be playing a different instrument.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:55 PM
I am actually OK with all of them ... great bass players! IMHO not as melodic as Paul but certainly melodic enough. At least they play bass and are not guitar wannabes like some of the others that have been mentioned.

I love iron maiden.


Hmmmm? Bass players.
I see no one has mentioned any Metal players.
How about Cliff Burton, Billy Sheehan, or Steve Harris.

I know they aren't as good as Sir Paul according to Tommac, but no bass player ever will be. Actually, Sir Paul is ok for what he did, but just not my thing.

Mettallica successful? No, they should have replaced Cliff with Sir Paul before he died. :sad:
Paul Gilbert, Mr Big, Steve Vai, David Lee Roth successful? No, they should have replaced Billy with Sir Paul.
Iron Maiden successful. Nope, Sir Paul would have done a much better job than Steve.

These were or are all extremely successful bands. I guess a lot of people like them. The bass players are a main part of their sound.

However, time marches on, times and musical tastes change and broaden for some. These guys were good for their time and style,but the new guys like

Timo Lehtinen Kalmah
Henkka Seppälä Children Of Bodom
Peter Iwers In Flames

and any of the current metal players I think are right up there.Is any one better than the other? Nope,just different.

How about William Murderface ?
Any one who has seen DethKlok, will know he is the greatest Bass player ever. You have to see how he plays slap bass:clap:

I guess the point is Tommac, that your idea what constitutes a great bass player and mine are totally different. And that is what makes music fun, A style for every one.

One question Tommac. What is your definition of melodic? You seem to use this term a lot when describing bass players.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:57 PM
Les Claypool plays a six string fretless named, "The Rainbow Bass" on Jerry was a Racecar Driver.

Doug Pinnick of King's X plays a 12 string instrument that I don't know quite what to call. It serves the roll of bass in the band, but the strings are in four groups of three and played as a combination rhythm guitar and bass. He's good at what he does. It's a three piece band with a drummer and lead guitar rounding out the group.

http://www.hamerguitars.com/?fa=detail&mid=410

I believe that's the instrument.


Like I said these arent really basses ... and their style isnt really the roll of bass guitar. That being said some people ( very few ) will prefer that the bass is the lead of their band ... other people ( most ) will prefer the traditional arrangement with the bass as part of the rhythm section.

tommac
2010-Feb-01, 03:59 PM
Sting is also a great bass player. Somebody mentioned Stanley Clarke, but I think this discussion is about "pop" music players [a controversial distinction, since some Jazz flavors are pretty pop nowadays]

It was actaully about ROCK bass players ... but people keep throwing in some jazz (??) bassists into the mix.

closetgeek
2010-Feb-01, 07:29 PM
Henrik posted it, even though I might admit to being instigator.. but yes, fretless bass is a class in itself, IMHO. Beauty to be felt in the gut.

Oops! sorry Hendrik, the credit goes to you!

Jens
2010-Feb-03, 05:42 AM
Hmmmm? Bass players.
I see no one has mentioned any Metal players.
How about Cliff Burton, Billy Sheehan, or Steve Harris.


No offense intended. It's just that I don't listen to that kind of music, so wouldn't know. :)

Another bassist who came to mind, though actually not a rock bassist: Aston Barrett. I really love his playing on songs like "So Much Trouble in the World" and "Survival."

pghnative
2010-Mar-02, 06:06 PM
Most of my favorites have been mentioned (Lee, Entwistle, John Paul Jones) with one exception: Flea (Michael Balzary) of the Chili Peppers.

My own opinion is that Sting is overrated (at least as a bassist).

I'd nominate Michael Anthony (Van Halen) as the worst bassist in rock, though he does have a great high singing voice. (There's only one VH song I know that has an interesting bass line, leading me to the Conspiracy Theory that Eddie actually recorded it)

Lianachan
2010-Mar-02, 06:13 PM
I can't believe nobody has mentioned Prince, yet. He's an absolutely outstanding bass player. Listen to Let's Work, listen closely to Alphabet St, listen to 777-9311!

xfahctor
2010-Mar-02, 06:44 PM
I noticed no one mentioned John Mayung...No Dream Theater fans here?

novaderrik
2010-Mar-02, 06:50 PM
i only read the first page of this thread, and it may have already been covered, but i will just say one thing:
Cliff Burton. from Metallica's "golden age".
listen to the Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets albums from beginning to end and the bass both blends in and sticks out at the same time. it's too bad he was taken at the age of 24.
right behind him i'd rate Les Claypool of Primus- the guy is just amazing- and Rob Trujillo. Rob is the perfect guy for Metallica now, and brought a kind of power to the Suicidal Tendencies and Infectious Grooves albums he played on.

slang
2010-Mar-02, 08:37 PM
Most of my favorites have been mentioned (Lee, Entwistle, John Paul Jones) with one exception: Flea (Michael Balzary) of the Chili Peppers.

Page 1. :)

redshifter
2010-Mar-02, 08:42 PM
I saw them once. It was actually the first rock concert I ever went to. It was the Permanent Waves tour.

And I've never seen Yes in concert. It's the one band that I really want to see that I never have seen. I was going to try to see them when they came to Japan maybe five years ago, but Jon Anderson hurt his back or something and they had to cancel it.

You may be too late to see Yes, at least with Anderson on vocals. IIRC, he's been suffering from a severe respirtory illness for some time. Not sure on the prognosis. They came here to Seattle last year with a different singer. I didn't go, didn't seem the same w/o Anderson. I've seen them 5 times, they've always been very good.

Jens
2010-Mar-04, 11:43 AM
You may be too late to see Yes, at least with Anderson on vocals. IIRC, he's been suffering from a severe respirtory illness for some time. Not sure on the prognosis. They came here to Seattle last year with a different singer. I didn't go, didn't seem the same w/o Anderson. I've seen them 5 times, they've always been very good.

I'm not sure, but from reading around it seems like it may be asthma. In any case, he is doing shows again. So who knows.

Jens
2010-Mar-04, 11:48 AM
I noticed no one mentioned John Mayung...No Dream Theater fans here?

It's funny, in some ways I should be a Dream Theater fan, but I have never been particularly attracted to them. Sometimes (in my very personal opinion) they sound a bit like Frank Zappa with Metallica as a backup band. Maybe I've gotten too old for the volume. Actually, I came closer to them then I might have realized. I see that they met at Berklee music school in Boston in 1985, and I went there for one year (1982-1983)...

Trantor
2010-Mar-04, 02:46 PM
I'm not sure, but from reading around it seems like it may be asthma. In any case, he is doing shows again. So who knows.

Yes was in Central Florida last week. They were touring without Jon Anderson. They also had Rick Wakeman's son on the keyboards. I thought about seeing the concert, as the last Yes show that I've seen, was back in the late 90's, but my wife and me already had plans for that weekend. I do prefer Jon Anderson on vocals. Years back, I saw the Drama tour, without Anderson; and it was good, but Jon Anderson is one of the foundations of the Yes sound. They did have Steve Howe, Chris Squire, and Alan White, so I'm sure that it was still a good show.

Argos
2010-Mar-04, 02:55 PM
Trevor Horn is a great singer. He managed to convey the Yes feeling in Drama. Sometimes his voice sound much like Jon´s.

Trantor
2010-Mar-04, 03:28 PM
Trevor Horn is a great singer. He managed to convey the Yes feeling in Drama. Sometimes his voice sound much like Jon´s.

I agree. Drama is an excellent album. I think some of Chris Squire's best stuff, was on Drama. On the tour, I remember that Squire improvised on many of the songs; some of the best bass playing that I've ever heard. The man is a master at his art.

xfahctor
2010-Mar-04, 05:44 PM
It's funny, in some ways I should be a Dream Theater fan, but I have never been particularly attracted to them. Sometimes (in my very personal opinion) they sound a bit like Frank Zappa with Metallica as a backup band. Maybe I've gotten too old for the volume. Actually, I came closer to them then I might have realized. I see that they met at Berklee music school in Boston in 1985, and I went there for one year (1982-1983)...
Yeh, I hear a lot of zappa and metallica in them, but I also here a lot of Yes, Styx, Armored saint, rush....cripe, more influences than I can count. I'm a huge fan of the progressive rock genre, Symphony X is another one of my top picks for that type of music.

redshifter
2010-Mar-04, 06:18 PM
There are a couple Dream Theater titles I really like: Scenes From a Memory and the 2nd disc of Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence. I have a few other DT titles I don't listen to a whole lot: Systematic Chaos, Images and Words, Train of Thought. Some of their songs sound too 'commercial' to me. I'd like to hear some of their covers, I've heard DT will sometimes cover an entire album during concerts, such as Iron Maiden's 'Number of the Beast' and Metallica's "Master of Puppets". Mike Portnoy's "Liquid Tension Experiment' titles are good too IMO.

I like SymphonyX, esp. "Paradise Lost". Never heard a singer that reminded me so much of Ronnie James Dio before.

ginnie
2010-Apr-06, 11:57 PM
I'd nominate Michael Anthony (Van Halen) as the worst bassist in rock, though he does have a great high singing voice. (There's only one VH song I know that has an interesting bass line, leading me to the Conspiracy Theory that Eddie actually recorded it)
I agree, although I think it may be due to the mix of their recordings, and the ego of Eddie who likes his guitar waaaaaaay louder than anyone elses instrument. It's hard to even hear the bass in Van Halen's material.