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Thread: A Generation Ship - How big would it be?

  1. #121
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    The "world ship" article below is really about generation ships.

    https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/20....119H/abstract
    World Ships - Architectures & Feasibility Revisited
    Hein, A. M.; Pak, M.; Putz, D.; Buhler, C.; Reiss, P.
    Abstract: A world ship is a concept for manned interstellar flight. It is a huge, self-contained and self-sustained interstellar vehicle. It travels at a fraction of a per cent of the speed of light and needs several centuries to reach its target star system. The well-known world ship concept by Alan Bond and Anthony Martin was intended to show its principal feasibility. However, several important issues haven't been addressed so far: the relationship between crew size and robustness of knowledge transfer, reliability, and alternative mission architectures. This paper addresses these gaps. Furthermore, it gives an update on target star system choice, and develops possible mission architectures. The derived conclusions are: a large population size leads to robust knowledge transfer and cultural adaptation. These processes can be improved by new technologies. World ship reliability depends on the availability of an automatic repair system, as in the case of the Daedalus probe. Star systems with habitable planets are probably farther away than systems with enough resources to construct space colonies. Therefore, missions to habitable planets have longer trip times and have a higher risk of mission failure. On the other hand, the risk of constructing colonies is higher than to establish an initial settlement on a habitable planet. Mission architectures with precursor probes have the potential to significantly reduce trip and colonization risk without being significantly more costly than architectures without. In summary world ships remain an interesting concept, although they require a space colony-based civilization within our own solar system before becoming feasible.
    Publication: Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, vol. 65, p. 119-133
    Pub Date: 2012
    https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/20....140A/abstract (another article on world ships)
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

  2. #122
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    This paper suggests that the necessary precursor of the generation ship or interstellar ship/ark is the "artificial planet", whose name I don't particularly like but I will live with it. I keep seeing Danny Glover as this paper's author.

    https://ui.adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/20.....43G/abstract
    The Artificial Planet
    Glover, D. R.
    Abstract: An interim milestone for interstellar space travel is proposed: the artificial planet. Interstellar travel will require breakthroughs in the areas of propulsion systems, energy systems, construction of large space structures, protection from space & radiation effects, space agriculture, closed environmental & life support systems, and many other areas. Many difficult problems can be attacked independently of the propulsion and energy challenges through a project to establish an artificial planet in our solar system. Goals of the project would include construction of a large space structure, development of space agriculture, demonstration of closed environmental & life support systems over long time periods, selection of gravity level for long-term spacecraft, demonstration of a self-sufficient colony, and optimization of space colony habitat. The artificial planet would use solar energy as a power source. The orbital location will be selected to minimize effects of the Earth, yet be close enough for construction, supply, and rescue operations. The artificial planet would start out as a construction station and evolve over time to address progressive goals culminating in a self-sufficient space colony.
    Publication: Journal of the British Interplanetary Society, vol. 66, p. 43-46
    Pub Date: 2013
    Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom

  3. #123
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    Psh, generation ships? Hogwash. Von Neuman probes are the way to go!

    Send your robots to a distant star, build up infrastructure, a cloning bay to grow human bodies, and a massive receiver. Only after the Von Neuman probes have spent several centuries making sure everything is ready would a group of humans on Earth have their minds digitized, beamed out to that star and get uploaded into the awaiting clones.

    But you don't bothering wasting time making the long trek yourself. That is SOOOO year 3000 stuff......

  4. #124
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    As a historian, I want to invoke the trope of serfdom. A family has children that are required be the same professions as the parent, tied to the land so to speak.

    However, just for fun, what if you invoke something tricky. Say you left home without the staff that would be needed on arrival. For example, you have the knowledge to teach a geologist and a civil engineer, but since arrival is generations away, you don't pick one for the crew leaving earth. I wonder how that would work out?

    It's kind of an interesting problem because it's a mouth you don't need to feed on the journey, nor are you asking for a cult of civil engineer or geology to exist for centuries.
    Last edited by Solfe; 2020-May-03 at 05:00 AM.
    Solfe

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave241 View Post
    Psh, generation ships? Hogwash. Von Neuman probes are the way to go!

    Send your robots to a distant star, build up infrastructure, a cloning bay to grow human bodies, and a massive receiver. Only after the Von Neuman probes have spent several centuries making sure everything is ready would a group of humans on Earth have their minds digitized, beamed out to that star and get uploaded into the awaiting clones.

    But you don't bothering wasting time making the long trek yourself. That is SOOOO year 3000 stuff......
    Assuming of course, that all that stuff can actually happen. You may as well invoke FTL as mind transfer. At present, both are equally fictional. A generation ship would require no breakthroughs, you could accomplish it with heavy engineering.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    We have a very, very long way to go in developing closed cycle biomes in space. Including microbes. We have a part time lean-to in the woods and we're talking about building cities.
    ISS is more like Das Boot

  7. #127
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    Seems like a spherical ship with a diameter of roughly 7917.5 miles would do nicely. As long as we find ourselves capable of managing whatever ecosystem we create.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by publiusr View Post
    ISS is more like Das Boot
    A generation ship would be a larger and more diverse environment than any submarine. But it would require a military grade social hierarchy and command structure, with a culture of absolute obedience to strict rules. Above all, doing whatever is necessary to maintain the ship and its ecology.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

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