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Thread: Fram Crater , WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Re: Fram Crater , WOW !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by EFossa
    http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opportunity/forward_hazcam/2004-04-19/1F135648690EFF1326P1201L0M1.JPG
    Hmmm... can you say "SPLAT!" ?

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    I would have said "BANG!" rather than "splat"!

    Jon

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    Wow... think this'll delay the trip to Endurance? I don't mind it, though. This looks amazing! I'm wondering now if it will make sense to go into Endurance if we can't get back out. There's so much outcrop scattered around the plains. For now I think we should go into Endurance even if we can't get out, but I'll wait until we finally get to the rim to make a judgment. I wonder what Spirit's crater looks like. No pictures seem to be up yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonClarke
    I would have said "BANG!" rather than "splat"!

    Jon
    Actually, I'm imagining a Sarlacc-type belch coming from that thing.

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    My first thought was, "What a mess!"
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

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    The outcrop rocks appear bright white in the NavCam images of the crater, however, there do seem to be a few dark grey rocks present. I wonder if they could be remnants of the object that made the crater.

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    Here's a great image of Fram crater with Endurance in the background:
    here. You can see the heatshield too. I think I just found a new wallpaper.

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    Opportunity update, talks about getting to Fram and investigating targets there.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

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    Fram navcam mosaic

    Here's a mosaic of the 4 frames of navcam, it gives a good feel for the size of the crater.

    http://www.lyle.org/~markoff/collections/framcrater.JPG

  11. #11
    At first quick glance (and that's all it's liable to take a few members of Clan Woo^2) it looks like that crater's got a few inches of water in the bottom, and it's a pleasantly breezy day on Mars...

    Of course, interpreting motion from a still photo is fraught with peril. Now, if those ripples in the crater were motion blurred, it'd be another story...

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    LOL @ Charlie! And I thought those ripples were in a giant tub of chocchip ice cream. Guess I just don't have a Woowoo brain otherwise I would have said they were wind blown sand dunettes (?? technical geological term !) but that of course would be ridiculous since we all know they are made by intelligent lifeforms.

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    That crater must be really young (geologically speaking) since the rocks haven't yet been buried or eroded.

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    Wow... think this'll delay the trip to Endurance? I don't mind it, though
    Why ?
    Endurance will offer at least ten times as many opportunities
    Shouldn't we save the remaining rover life time for the very most promising targets ?

    Actually I still don't understand the Rover's "sparrow in the hand"
    strategy where the most intersting tragets (Endurance, Columbia Hills)
    are always delayed in favour of every "little stone" along the way.
    This safety strategy did make sense in the beginning of the mission, ...
    but now as the rovers have already collected more than enough data
    to justify the $$ of the mission, wouldn't it be time to take on a little
    bit more risk (maybe only for one of the two rovers) and make more
    use of the mobility ... even more so with the new mobility-enhancing software ...

    Imagine how much more diverese terrain could be studied if we took
    full advantage of the 150+ meters per day mobility !!
    With the long remaining lifetime we could travel a hundred kilometers stopping only for the most intersting targets never seen before !

    Instead of studying the x-th same "Humphery-Bounce" stone, we could reach entirely new land forms (it would be almost the same as if we had additional spacecraft landed in different regions of the planet)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nirgal
    Imagine how much more diverese terrain could be studied if we took
    full advantage of the 150+ meters per day mobility !!
    With the long remaining lifetime we could travel a hundred kilometers stopping only for the most intersting targets never seen before !
    Well, assuming a lifetime going into September, maybe 40 kilometers, and that's with traveling 150 meters every day, which is not realistic.

    It would also be a question of whether it's better to examine a lot of targets superficially or a few thoroughly.

    I agree, though, that I would like to ask them why they seem to be taking their own sweet time getting to what they've identified as the best available targets.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

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    Mars gets all the cool stuff.

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    Pancam closeup shows some neat layering inside Fram.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

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    Does that look like fluid erosion?

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    What is amazing to me is; that crater was created by something much smaller than a Fram oil filter.

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    The rock in the foreground appears to have some cross bedding but what about the blueberries on the large rock centre? Some of them look as if they are on stalks and I can't think of any water erosion process that would cause that. I would have to go with fine wind blown sand abrading the softer material which I suspect is more like a loosely compacted mudstone rather than sandstone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by frogesque
    The rock in the foreground appears to have some cross bedding but what about the blueberries on the large rock centre? Some of them look as if they are on stalks and I can't think of any water erosion process that would cause that. I would have to go with fine wind blown sand abrading the softer material which I suspect is more like a loosely compacted mudstone rather than sandstone.
    There's some pretty definite stalked blueberries there. I've yet to see any broken off stalks, blueberries with stalk-scars, or stalked blueberries lying on the ground.
    Wouldn't wind erosion tend to leave stalks that are oriented in the direction of the prevailing winds? Yet there are stalks facing in at least two different directions. Has anyone come across an earthly equivalent of these stalked spheres?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by frogesque
    LOL @ Charlie! And I thought those ripples were in a giant tub of chocchip ice cream. Guess I just don't have a Woowoo brain otherwise I would have said they were wind blown sand dunettes (?? technical geological term !) but that of course would be ridiculous since we all know they are made by intelligent lifeforms.
    [H. Simpson sim]...mmm...dunettes...[/H. Simpson sim]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlie in Dayton
    At first quick glance (and that's all it's liable to take a few members of Clan Woo^2) it looks like that crater's got a few inches of water in the bottom, and it's a pleasantly breezy day on Mars...
    It kind of does, except that the ripples extend up along the sloping side of the crater. So it's either a strange new form of gravity-defying water, or... sand. But by golly, we didn't send these probes all the way to Mars to look at sand! So it's gotta be the weird water.

    Bad Grad? But I never did a thesis!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Squink
    Has anyone come across an earthly equivalent of these stalked spheres?
    Yeah, well, sort of: Picture
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

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    I've wondered about the spherules on stems or stalks -- especially since my username is... composed of stems and spherules.

    I figured that erosion would produce them, but I also envisioned a mechanism whereby the stem was created as part of the concretion body.

    This http://qt.exploratorium.edu/mars/opp...0P2283L7M1.JPG from around Fram crater pretty much cements it for me: wind erosion.

    There are at least three rocks pictured here with many stemmed spherules. Likely the rocks have been jumbled enough so that their original layers are no longer co-planar. It appears nonetheless that all the stems currently point in the same direction. And, it appears that the direction is into the prevailing wind, given that sand is deposited in the sheltered lee side of the rocks, opposite the direction the stems point.

    I hope NASA takes a closer look, just for those dear souls who might cling to the idea of the stems being strong evidence of fossilized lifeforms.
    0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 1 0 0 1 1 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 ...
    Skepticism enables us to distinguish fancy from fact, to test our speculations. --Carl Sagan

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    Quote Originally Posted by 01101001
    I hope NASA takes a closer look, just for those dear souls who might cling to the idea of the stems being strong evidence of fossilized lifeforms.
    Nah, that's a pretty convincing picture once you download and enlarge it, particularly as the stems don't line up with the layering, which is what I'd expect if they were elongated concretions, rather than erosional artifacts.

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