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Thread: How many people do you know that believe in the Moon Haox My

  1. #1
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    I know that all of us have seen Hoax Believers websites, bulletin boards, etc on the internet, but how many people have you ever run into that actually believe the landings were faked. I'm not talking about people who were on fence or who believed but were convinced by some simple arguements, but the die hards

    The only person I ever have met didn't believe the moon landings were real was my grandfather in law. He was 61 at the time of the moon landings.

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: jrkeller on 2002-04-26 15:20 ]</font>

  2. #2
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    I've only really known one true dyed-in-the-wool-over-your-eyes Conspiracy Believer (complete with Capital Letters, too!), and even he doesn't believe in the Apollo Moon Hoax. He's dead set on UFOs as either ETs or else Nazi super-science from their Antarctic base which we (the US) have taken over since the war (he sorta waffles back and forth, or maybe it's a combination thing); Kennedy was gunned down by more shooters than your average sharpshooter platoon, and not all of them were "criminal elements"; there's more chemicals in the water and/or farming soil than you'd believe, and they're all there for "somebody"'s purposes--but faked moon landings? No way--I'm willing to bet he'd buy the idea of secret moon bases long before he'd go with the Moon Hoax crowd.

    He drives a Hummer, collects clothing in historical camoflage patterns (generally SS patterns, although nothing he says indicates that he buys into their beliefs, thank God), bought all the necessary survivalist gear in the run-up to End-of-the-Millenium-Minus-One (31 Dec. 1999), etc. He's actually fun to talk with at times, but I think because I rarely bother to argue with him he thinks I share more of his beliefs than I do.

    And if you're reading this, "K.", please put the gun down before heading over to my cubicle!

    The (if I don't post anything after this, well, it's been fun) Curtmudgeon

    Effective Proofreading: the act of screaming "NO! WAIT!" one micro-second after hitting the 'Submit' button. Twice.

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Curtmudgeon on 2002-04-26 15:39 ]</font>

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: The Curtmudgeon on 2002-04-26 15:40 ]</font>

  3. #3
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    The one big conspiract theorist I know hasn't weighed in on the topic while I've been around. I should ask her, but I'm afraid of the answer. She's big on the Bilderbergers right now. That and CIA plots.

    But everyone I have talked to just rolls their eyes at the thought that someone would actually believe the moon landings were a hoax.


  4. #4
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    Where I work, several people have expressed a tentative form of dubiety, based on the tv specials, or merely word-of-mouth.

    I have taken efforts to explain the facts to them. I don't lecture, or scold, or tease: I merely ask them to think about it. (I just posted, on another thread, the gist of my argument.)

    So far, I've been about 95% successful. Most of my co-workers nod and say, "Yeah, that's kind of what I thought." A very few have said, "I still don't know. I mean, like, the Moon, you know?"

    (As if we were speaking of Lemuria or Oz...)

    Silas

  5. #5
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    She's big on the Bilderbergers right now.
    This is a new one for me. Can you explain it please?

  6. #6
    I've run across 2 or 3 recently that had seen something (maybe the Fox program) and wanted any kind of encouragement I could give (as a geologist and amateur astronomer). They took my explanations and felt much better after.

    I've had lots more people (maybe one or two dozen) that look at me funny when I talk about this BB and the hoax topic. They might think alien UFOs are neat and X-file's monsters are under the bed, but they're sure we went to the moon.

  7. #7
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    I was introduced to this topic in earnest by a real live hoax believer. I was held captive on a bus trip to Jackson, Wyoming by this individual who saw me reading Chaikin's A Man On the Moon and couldn't stop talking about it. This was about a year before the first broadcast of the Fox program. Luckily I knew this individual and understood him to be somewhat mentally unbalanced. I didn't take his rant seriously. But when I got back home I found out just how seriously some people take this thing.

    I had a surprisingly strong reaction to this. As I collated and investigated their claims, I couldn't help thinking, "Who are these people? They have no clue what they're talking about." I felt I had to do something because these folks were ignorantly bad-mouthing my profession. Bad-mouthing I can take. Ignorant bad-mouthing needs a response.

    When the Fox program aired I was working in an office populated mostly by engineers. And so nobody believed it for a second. A few people asked me questions that had to do with specific details.

    An interesting thing happened at church last week. At the coffee hour after the service I was doodling lunar modules on the napkin, and a precocious 13-year-old whose father is a friend of mine noticed my drawing. We talked about the design of the LM. Out of the blue he said, "Isn't it silly that some people believe it didn't really happen?" I said, "Yes, it's pretty silly." He went on to catalogue a few of the common arguments -- no stars, flag waving, etc. The most amusing part was when he recommended my own web site to me.

    I've talked to his father, and he's going to let the boy write some of the material for Clavius, schoolwork permitting. I think it's quite a statement that the hoax arguments can be successfully and correctly rebutted by a 13-year-old boy.

  8. #8
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    I've only run into one person who had more than a passing doubt or question. It was my wife's grandmother who was conviced convinced for religious reasons that man could not go into space since it would be tantamount to invading heaven, and therefore NASA had faked the landings [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img] I never debated the issue with her since I've found through hard experience over the years that trying to sway elderly Catholic ladies on religious matters is about as productive as trying to fill the Grand Canyon with a garden spade. Luckily her decendants never seemed to take her seriously on the matter.

    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: pvtpylot on 2002-04-28 01:37 ]</font>

  9. #9
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    I've talked to his father, and he's going to let the boy write some of the material for Clavius, schoolwork permitting. I think it's quite a statement that the hoax arguments can be successfully and correctly rebutted by a 13-year-old boy.
    Of course, NASA paid him off to try to make the HB's look stupid. That explains everything!

    The (Tongue being surgically removed from cheek) Incubus


  10. #10
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    My wife had a close but elderly friend, now deceased, who thought the lunar landings had been staged. His "smoking gun" were the spacesuits, which he didn't think should be wrinkled in a vacuum.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  11. #11
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    Have you ever tried to iron Beta cloth? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]

  12. #12
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    Jay, I know you've been around and have experienced many things but are you telling us you have? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_lol.gif[/img]
    You are truly 'the man'! [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_wink.gif[/img]

  13. #13
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    On 2002-04-29 10:30, JayUtah wrote:
    Have you ever tried to iron Beta cloth? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_smile.gif[/img]
    Actually, there's a great story from the "golden age" of science fiction (40s and 50s). One of the leading illustrators of the time, Kelly Freas, turned in a drawing to John W. Campbell, editor of Astounding Science Fiction, that illustrated a spacewalk scene in a story, complete with astronaut in an inflated but wrinkled spacesuit. Campbell exploded, "Wrinkles! In a bulger?"

    Freas said it took over a decade for him to be proved correct.



    <font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: ToSeek on 2002-04-29 13:11 ]</font>

  14. #14
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    No, I've never ironed Beta cloth. But the planetarium where I sometimes volunteer has an Apollo training space suit in its collection. It's missing the PLSS and the bubble helmet. They're moving to a new location in town and are discussing how to package and transport their exhibits. The conservators are all worried about scuffing or tearing the space suit fabric. "Uh, guys," I said, "This was meant to stop micrometeoroids and to protect the wearer in one of the harshest environments in the solar system. Just put it in a cardboard box." The visor assembly will be carefully packed, of course. Those gold visors scratch very easily.

    The Beta cloth used in the space suits is coated with Teflon. It looks like white nylon fabric, the kind of material some gym bags are made from. It has nylon's fabric memory -- if you fold it up and leave it for a while, the crease will remain after you unfold it. It also has a tendency to bunch at the seams.

  15. #15
    "When the Fox program aired I was working in an office populated mostly by engineers. And so nobody believed it for a second. A few people asked me questions that had to do with specific details."

    Interesting, so was I. However, there were even a few there who were questioning whether it could have happened. The gentleman that stands out most in my mind is the one who actually contracted for NASA during this time.

    As for knowing any true hoax believers, a fifth grade class full of them, well until my kid, with a bit of help from BAs site undid some of the damage. And there are a few, of course, they are of all varieties:

    We went but with alien technology.

    We couldn't have gone - for all the reasons listed in the show and various books.

    NASA and all space missions are cover-ups for developing/understanding captured alien technology.

    We didn't go to the moon, we went to Mars, but they said the moon because....

    Well, the aliens helped us because they want us to be like them, but that's ok because the aliens are gods and if you try real hard and prepare yourself you can walk through walls. I could, but I'm not properly prepared tonight. (Conversation with a whacko at Denny's).

    Lot's of weird things out there.


  16. #16
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    On 2002-04-29 14:06, Trish wrote:
    Well, the aliens helped us because they want us to be like them, but that's ok because the aliens are gods and if you try real hard and prepare yourself you can walk through walls. I could, but I'm not properly prepared tonight. (Conversation with a whacko at Denny's).
    Lot's of weird things out there.
    Good grief! Which one was that? The guy who's such a fan of free-energy? Most of the crowd seemed okay. Just wish I had a crowd like that to hang with.
    Lisa

  17. #17
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    Lisa, you can 'hang' with us.

    I've never met anyone who believes the hoax. Then again, I've never met anyone who watched the Fox prog, or even know there are people who think it was a hoax. Nobody I know is even faintly interested in space travel. At all. If you ask them, they think the Shuttle goes to the Moon. And some of these folks work in education. That said, I don't think most of the people I know would even care if it was determined it was a hoax. People just are not interested, in my experience.

  18. #18
    On 2002-04-29 15:16, Lisa wrote:
    Good grief! Which one was that? The guy who's such a fan of free-energy? Most of the crowd seemed okay. Just wish I had a crowd like that to hang with.
    Lisa
    Um, no. Actually someone else. Though he's the one with the theory about we went to test alien technology on some nights then some rambling about Tesla thrown in.

    Todd and I did have a good laugh over it though.

  19. #19
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    I know one hardcore HB (convinced by the Fox show no doubt). Of course, I find his arguements hard to take seruisly, as he also belives that straws are the most arodynamic shapes on earth, and that the Vulcon cannon can be hand held. He also belives that the USSR secerctly set off a 500 mega mega ton hydrogen bomb. Yes, he's a moron.

  20. #20
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    On 2002-04-26 22:03, odysseus0101 wrote:
    She's big on the Bilderbergers right now.
    This is a new one for me. Can you explain it please?
    I'm a bit hazy on this, but I think the Bilderbergers are to political Hoax believers what NASA is to the Moon Hoax Believers. Sort of shadowy plutocrats who run the world from behind the scenes.

  21. #21
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    On 2002-05-07 00:20, Lord General MB wrote:
    and that the Vulcon cannon can be hand held.
    lol, id love to see someone try that.

    I can guarentee that apollo had no connection with aliens at all. no one of my race ever goes near any human activity. but i am tempted to shot bin laden with my lazer through.


    We didn't go to the moon, we went to Mars, but they said the moon because....
    if any one lands on my home plannet they will get a clamp and a ticket


  22. #22
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    he also belives that straws are the most arodynamic shapes on earth

    Ask him if he knows how to compute the drag in fluid flow through a tube.

    the Vulcon cannon can be hand held

    There are channel-fed rotatary cannons that can be slung from a very strong soldier's shoulder strap, but that's not a Vulcan. The Vulcan is several feet long and takes three or four men to lift. And you should see the cannon that the A-10 is built around. It's probably a good ten or twelve feet long.

    He also belives that the USSR secerctly set off a 500 mega mega ton hydrogen bomb.

    They did set off a 50 MT device, but it was no secret -- nor could it have been. It's hard to understand how they could have hidden something with ten times the yield.

  23. #23
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    Jay:

    I ment the Vulcan, sorry about the typo. And yes, it is huge (wieghs in at about a ton- depending on the make). When you refer to the 50mt, your speaking of the (in)famous "Tzar Bomba" the largest nuclear weapon ever built. But we're not talking about 10 times that, oh no! We're talking about MEGA mega tons, something more like 1,000 times that (!)Mighty big, and impossible to construct.

  24. #24
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    Is that the same gun that's in the Phalanx CIWS? The aircraft-mounted one looks like it would weigh in the thousands of pounds, but for some reason I thought a smaller mounted version existed for the Phalanx.

    I skipped a "mega". Sorry. Actually mega-mega-ton would be 1,000,000 times 1,000,000 tons, and 500 of those would be 5 &times; 10<sup>14</sup> tons. The notion that such a detonation -- even if it were possible -- could be kept secret is ludicrous.

  25. #25
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    On 2002-05-07 05:16, Conrad wrote:
    On 2002-04-26 22:03, odysseus0101 wrote:
    She's big on the Bilderbergers right now.
    This is a new one for me. Can you explain it please?
    I'm a bit hazy on this, but I think the Bilderbergers are to political Hoax believers what NASA is to the Moon Hoax Believers. Sort of shadowy plutocrats who run the world from behind the scenes.
    That's about my understanding of it. My friend could tell me more, I'm sure. But since her beliefs on matters conspiratorial are somewhat less than fully internally consistant, I'm not keen to pry.


  26. #26
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    here is a link about the bilderbergers:

    http://www.rense.com/general24/biul.htm

  27. #27
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    Jay:

    The Phalax is the same as a Vulcan cannon, firring 3,000 20mm rounds per minute. The Vulcan can rnanage up to 6,600 rounds though. The Vulcan has been mounted on a number of hulls, mostly aircraft. The 6,600 round Vulcan is mounted on F-14/15/16/18 series. The largest mount is held by the Spectre gunships, carrying a fairly (friggin') impressive mount of duel Vulcans. The A-10 doesn't use a Vulcan, but instead mounts the 30mm Avenger cannon. The Avenger has 7 barrels instead of 6, and is ONLY employed on the A-10. The Avenger weighs in with a punny 4,000 rounds per minute, but is capable of shooting DU rounds, something the Vulcan lacks.

  28. #28
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    what is this?

    the bad gun bulletin board? [img]/phpBB/images/smiles/icon_razz.gif[/img]

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