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Thread: Website hit frustration

  1. #1
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    Website hit frustration

    There's a catch-22 situation on BAUT that bothers me; I've wanted to comment specifically on CT and UFO claims but don't want to give proponents' websites hits. To my knowledge, Youtube itself profits from hits because of advertising partnerships but individual posters (correct me if I'm wrong) don't, except for bragging rights over the hit-count their video got, so that doesn't concern me so much. It's the links to their own sites I find myself avoiding more and more.

    I cringe when I think of the support aliensdidit has given the woo-peddlers with the dozens of links he has posted here and we have no way of knowing how many BAUT lurkers have provided hits for those bozos. I visited the first link he provided and, because of its total absurdity, clicked on no more of his links. For that reason, I refrained from specifically addressing any of the content of his further threads. I find it frustrating to have to make that choice.

    Mike
    "There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. There is much you have to learn. Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

  2. #2
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    That's why I think it so important to insist that CT proponents put things in their own words. "It says on this website" isn't an argument and shouldn't be treated like one. Well, and because I think being able to put it in your own words is a sign that you even approach understanding the website and will with luck understand the explanations of how wrong it is.
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    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

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    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  3. #3
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    I can certainly understand not wanting to give added hits (or attention) to proponents of ATM or CT, or bored media outlets. I often thought ignoring them is about the best thing one can do (denying them the attention).

    But there is no BAUT policy forbidding the posting of such links or discouraging members from visiting the linked websites. Rule 9 does prohibit posting a link with no explanation, and our cultural rule is that links should be accompanied by some explanation. The CT/ATM rules that prohibit "its on the website" as an explanation or evidence is to force people to actually argue what they are advocating and to address the questions put to them and as Gillianren says, to actual find and demonstrate understanding.

    I wouldn't like to see members avoid addressing CT or ATM claims just because they don't want to give some website a few more hits. But that is the members' decision.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    I wouldn't like to see members avoid addressing CT or ATM claims just because they don't want to give some website a few more hits. But that is the members' decision.
    Yeah, I haven't stopped going to all links. If the subject matter interests me and I don't get a feeling of total bogusness from the OP, I'll still click. I didn't expect that anything can be done about it -- just venting a little frustration.
    "There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. There is much you have to learn. Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

  5. #5
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    I think Luckmeister may be overestimating the impact of BAUT on the hit counts of those web sites. Sure, we're a pretty popular forum (of our type) but I really doubt we're going to make anybody a zillionaire, or provide them a huge ego boost.

  6. #6
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    Would BAUT even generate ten dollars of income for such a site?
    Even five dollars? Since I've never bought anything I ever saw in
    a web page advertisement, I can't imagine the advertisers paying
    much for hits. Besides, doesn't the web page reader have to follow
    the link in the advertisement in order for the website owner to get
    paid? I've probably clicked on more ads by accident than I have
    intentionally, and for all the hundreds of websites I've visited over
    the last fifteen and a half years, I doubt I've generated more than
    a dollar's worth of income for all of them added together.

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  7. #7
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    From the "logic" of the last couple of posts, I guess I'll stop voting in political elections because my vote would mean so little.
    "There are powers in this universe beyond anything you know. There is much you have to learn. Go to your homes. Go and give thought to the mysteries of the universe. I will leave you now, in peace." --Galaxy Being

  8. #8
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    Personally, I always got excited when Rotten Tomatoes told me that a few more people had looked at my journal, when they made it easy for me to tell how many people had looked at my journal. It didn't take much.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckmeister View Post
    From the "logic" of the last couple of posts, I guess I'll stop voting in political elections because my vote would mean so little.
    There was a mayoral race in a town around here recently that out of 6000 votes, the difference between the two candidates was 29 votes. So no, I do think one's vote does count.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

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  10. #10
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    I wouldn't want to contribute even a penny to purveyors of pseudoscience and mass hysteria.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  11. #11
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    (Disclaimer - I normally have a link in my sig to my blog, I won't use it on this thread for obvious reasons.)

    I would think us clicking links to silly websites devalues them. Picture a site with thousands of visitors a day. Some of these sites have hundreds of pages of material on them. Bautforum would be a good example; I can spend up to two hours (or more) reading and interacting a day.

    Now imagine that you have the siteofwoo.com and you have 1,000 hits a day and 1,000 printed pages of content. And Bautforum users are slugging away clicking the links to siteofwoo.com 100 times a day, spending all of 15 seconds per visit.

    That site owner is looking at bautforum users reducing his "Average time on site" to just a few minutes. On top of that he has a huge bounce rate, these are the percentage of users who look at one thing and leave. The site owner is now pretty sure most visitors are not reading to any depth, which is a kick in the pants to a would-be writer. He also has skewed numbers that hide his normal readership from analysis. He will certainly begin to poke and peck trying find the cause. He may go so far as to start changing format, code, content and style to correct things. And to top it off no one is clicking his ads either.

    Now for the kicker... perhaps the webmaster for siteofwoo.com didn't post a link on Bautforum, it was one of his "fans" and he has no idea why he has traffic from us to him.

    Now that is frustration.

    Solfe

    PS. I understand that there is a whole school of thought that says more traffic is better, BUT those people have a slightly different motivation that a would-be writer, conspiracy shipper, Outsider, creative crazy, artist, etc. They spam forums with links in the hopes of capitalising on your click in some way.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    Since I've never bought anything I ever saw in a web page advertisement, I can't imagine the advertisers paying much for hits.
    Just checked, my Google Adsense account has about $3 on it from 17 ad-clicks in 9143 page views (a couple of totally unknown blogs that hasn't been updated in 2 years).
    Which means I made about $0.16 per clicked ad or $0.30 per 1000 page views.

    The thing to remember is that there's a very large potential mass of people out there, even though only 0.19% of the page views result in an ad click, that can become a quite reasonable amount if you end up with many hits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Donnie B. View Post
    I think Luckmeister may be overestimating the impact of BAUT on the hit counts of those web sites. Sure, we're a pretty popular forum (of our type) but I really doubt we're going to make anybody a zillionaire, or provide them a huge ego boost.
    The main advantage for them is through things like Google's algorithm for rating websites by relevance, which weighs sites with lots of links to them as more interesting than site with few links and weighs links from sites that are themselves rated highly as better.

    We're rated quite high as a site with lots of high rated links to us, which results in links from us having a fairly large influence in weighing of the other site too, so links from us is in themselves advantageous even if no one follows them.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckmeister View Post
    There's a catch-22 situation on BAUT that bothers me; I've wanted to comment specifically on CT and UFO claims but don't want to give proponents' websites hits. ...
    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    That's why I think it so important to insist that CT proponents put things in their own words. ...
    We ask them to put it in their own words because it shows that they aren't just parroting someone else. As for the links, we don't get terribly upset about a few links if people include some sort of explanation as to what the link shows. (There's a blind link discussion around here somewhere.)

    But, it's not just the hits BAUT might generate. (We might contribute a lot to a link explained as "cute kitten playing piano" but very little to one described as "this PROVES Einstine was wrong and was working with space aliens and helped fake the moon landings!!!1!!".) It's the search engine rankings we might generate.

    A live link posted here gets seen by a spider and added to the Google (or whatever) database. The more times that live link appears, the higher that website moves in the rankings.

    Which is why we don't like spammed links and will "kill" live links when appropriate.
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swift View Post
    There was a mayoral race in a town around here recently that out of 6000 votes, the difference between the two candidates was 29 votes. So no, I do think one's vote does count.
    I remember hearing about some federal ridings, two and/or three elections ago, that came down to single digits on the recount. It does happen.
    "Words that make questions may not be questions at all."
    - Neil deGrasse Tyson, answering loaded question in ten words or less
    at a 2010 talk MCed by Stephen Colbert.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim View Post
    ...but very little to one described as "this PROVES Einstine was wrong...
    Doncha hate it when the "E" won't go where it's "supposed" to?

    Lately, I've been having the same difficulty with the word "evidnece".
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  16. #16
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    Sixteen cents per clicked ad isn't much, but it is a lot more
    than I expected. Lessee... Sixteen cents per ad times ten
    thousand clicks is $1600 paid out by the advertiser. One
    sale per two hundred clicks is 50 sales, times $20 per sale
    is $1000 income. Hmmm... Those sixteen-cent ads must
    be for high-ticket items.

    Was the amount originally in $ or did you convert it to $?

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis

  17. #17
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    I seem to recall that we broke someone's server once because so many people from here went over to click on the site to find out what the fuss was about, and they simply had never expected to use that much bandwidth and therefore weren't paying for it.
    _____________________________________________
    Gillian

    "Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"

    "You can't erase icing."

    "I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    Doncha hate it when the "E" won't go where it's "supposed" to?
    I'll bet this was intentional. Misspelling Einstein's name is one of the items on the crackpot index checklist.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by slang View Post
    I'll bet this was intentional. Misspelling Einstein's name is one of the items on the crackpot index checklist.
    He shoots. He scores!
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Root View Post
    Sixteen cents per clicked ad isn't much, but it is a lot more
    than I expected. Lessee... Sixteen cents per ad times ten
    thousand clicks is $1600 paid out by the advertiser. One
    sale per two hundred clicks is 50 sales, times $20 per sale
    is $1000 income. Hmmm... Those sixteen-cent ads must
    be for high-ticket items.

    Was the amount originally in $ or did you convert it to $?

    -- Jeff, in Minneapolis
    I get the report in DKK, but that's Google converting from USD to begin with.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    Which means I made about $0.16 per clicked ad or $0.30 per 1000 page views.
    I think you just broke the Google terms of service...

  22. #22
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    The first rule of google adsense, is don't mention google adsense.
    Solfe

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    I think you just broke the Google terms of service...
    Oh dear. Oh well, they're welcome to the $3 I've made since 2008 if that makes them close the account.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckmeister View Post
    There's a catch-22 situation on BAUT that bothers me; I've wanted to comment specifically on CT and UFO claims but don't want to give proponents' websites hits. To my knowledge, Youtube itself profits from hits because of advertising partnerships but individual posters (correct me if I'm wrong) don't, except for bragging rights over the hit-count their video got, so that doesn't concern me so much. It's the links to their own sites I find myself avoiding more and more.

    I cringe when I think of the support aliensdidit has given the woo-peddlers with the dozens of links he has posted here and we have no way of knowing how many BAUT lurkers have provided hits for those bozos. I visited the first link he provided and, because of its total absurdity, clicked on no more of his links. For that reason, I refrained from specifically addressing any of the content of his further threads. I find it frustrating to have to make that choice.

    Mike
    *ahem*

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliensdidit View Post
    *ahem*
    Yes?
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by aliensdidit View Post
    *ahem*
    It is why people keep asking you if you're a spammer, you keep posting links to the woo sites as if supporting them is your whole purpose for being here.
    __________________________________________________
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    Chase after the truth like all hell and you'll free yourself, even though you never touch its coat tails. Clarence Darrow
    A person who won't read has no advantage over one who can't read. Mark Twain

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F. View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by aliensdidit View Post
    *ahem*
    Yes?

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    "The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching." Isaac Asimov
    Heh.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luckmeister View Post
    There's a catch-22 situation on BAUT that bothers me; I've wanted to comment specifically on CT and UFO claims but don't want to give proponents' websites hits.
    In the general case, I don't think that's a big issue: If there's only one or two links and there's a specific point that can be addressed (like, say, a claim that a Stereo spacecraft image artifact is Nibiru) it's best to address it. Even if the person who posted the link ignores it, others reading the thread might find it useful.

    [...]For that reason, I refrained from specifically addressing any of the content of his further threads. I find it frustrating to have to make that choice.
    In this particular case, I stopped bothering to address issues because the arguments have been consistently and blatantly absurd, the poster has repeatedly ignored those that did specifically address linked content (even going so far as claiming nobody had addressed anything he linked to), regularly ignored questions and avoided discussion. Given that, what's the point of continuing to address claims? I doubt many lurkers are going to take the claims seriously, and those that do probably aren't going to be interested in conventional arguments.

    So, I'd suggest using different approaches for different posters.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." ó Abraham Lincoln

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