If I remember correctly, he not only said that, but also referred to "preversion".Originally Posted by DonM435
Colonel "Bat" Guano worried about preverts taking over the country.
I hear a wide variety of pronunciations of "February".
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If I remember correctly, he not only said that, but also referred to "preversion".Colonel "Bat" Guano worried about preverts taking over the country.
I hear a wide variety of pronunciations of "February".
Last edited by 21st Century Schizoid Man; 2019-Oct-07 at 06:42 AM.
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Sorry, I don’t know how to get phonetic symbols from my iPhone. The first two vowels are spot on, but I would pronounce the final one to rhyme with lorry or Tory. If they pronounced the last vowel to rhyme with furry, I would suspect that is is someone from the South.
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The problem here is that I don't know how you pronounce "lorry" or "Tory".* It's generally true, I think, that American accents have lost the rounding on the vowel represented by "o" which is preserved in most British English. So the "o" in "God" is rendered as an unrounded low back vowel, like the "a" in "father" in RP. Or, under the Northern Cities Vowel Shift, it migrates forward, to resemble the fronted "a" that I use for "father" in a Scottish accent.
This makes the vowels in American "laboratory" difficult for a British ear to tease out. What we do notice is that you miss out an entire syllable and shift the emphasis, compared to British English.
*ETA: which I, in any case, pronounce using different vowels.
Grant Hutchison
Last edited by grant hutchison; 2019-Oct-07 at 12:34 PM.
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I would pronounce it as oʊ/, like in home.
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So that's nearer the Scottish pronunciation of "home" than the RP, which would be the same as my version of "Tory". Were you saying that you pronounce "lorry" the same way, or that the vowel in "lorry" is another, different way that Americans might pronounce the second "o" in "laboratory"?
Grant Hutchison
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When I say "Tory" and "lorry," they rhyme.
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Interesting. I seldom hears Americans say "lorry" or "Tory", for obvious reasons. These vowels are strongly distinguished in Scottish English, with an open-mid back rounded vowel /ɔ/ and a close-mid back rounded vowel /o/, respectively. (RP uses an open back rounded /ɒ/ and a dipthong /ɔə/.)
What I believe I commonly hear at the end of American "laboratory" is something between a schwa /ə/ and an open-mid back unrounded vowel /ʌ/. I'm not aware of ever hearing Jens's /oʊ/, which I think I'd have found quite striking.
Grant Hutchison
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"Kernal". Without any O's at all.
I think Jimmy Carter also said "nucular". And he claimed to be a "nucular engineer".
Same here. Except I'd usually just say "truck". Now I'm curious as to how Grant says them.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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See above. We were posting at the same time.Now I'm curious as to how Grant says them.
Grant Hutchison
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Sorry, I think I meant ɔ. Which I think is the standard American vowel in “store” for example. And yes, I would pronounce lorry (and Laurie) and Tory and store with this same vowel. I think this is standard in American English.
I kind of think we are talking about two different things here. I think that metathesis is interesting, but if we start talking about the pronunciation of vowels then English is all over the place because there is so much regional variation. To Americans, it sounds like Australians are saying “to die” when they say today, but that’s just the accent.
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Not from this part of the south.
Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance or stupidity.
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All the pronunciation differences are why English spelling reform won't work.
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That makes sense in terms of what I'm hearing, given that American "o" sounds are very unrounded compared to their Scottish equivalent.
Well, I offered American "laboratory" as an example of metathesis. But it may just be ellision, given the ambiguous way I seem to hear American vowels in the a/o territory.
The town I grew up in has its own signature metathesis, much to the confusion and amusement of the rest of the world. We pronounce words ending in -ern as -ren. Modren, westren, lantren.
Grant Hutchison
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Indeed--in order to spell words the way they're pronounced, you have to figure out who's doing the pronouncing. Which of course is why some English words are spelled so oddly in the first place--they're spelled the way they were pronounced, and pronunciation has changed.
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"Now everyone was giving her that kind of look UFOlogists get when they suddenly say, 'Hey, if you shade your eyes you can see it is just a flock of geese after all.'"
"You can't erase icing."
"I can't believe it doesn't work! I found it on the internet, man!"
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“DeeDee! GET OUT OF MY LAH-BOR-AH-TORYYY!”
The greatest journey of all time, for all to see
Every mission makes our dreams reality
And our destiny begins with you and me
Through all space and time, the achievement of mankind
As we sail the sea of discovery, on heroes’ wings we fly!
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My ancient electronic American Heritage Dictionary tells me that there are regional variations for the pronunciation of -or-. It uses non-IPA phonetics, so it's a little difficult to puzzle out what sounds it intends to symbolize. The options are ô, ō and ŏ. From context, and association with Latin, I'm guessing that ō is in the vicinity of /o/ and ŏ in the vicinity of /ɔ/. The glory/Tory series are listed with pronunciation options of ô or ō, whereas the lorry/sorry series are list with ô and ŏ, suggesting that some US dialects differentiate between them, in roughly the same way Scottish English does. The voice recordings pronounce both series the same, with a mid back not-very-rounded vowel (so I guess that's what ô symbolizes), with the interesting exception of "Tory", which is pronounced with a more close vowel, nearer to cardinal /o/ but still not very rounded.
Grant Hutchison
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Interesting. I don't pronounce "sorry" and "lorry" the same. "Lorry" rhymes with "glory" and "Tory". "Sorry" doesn't.
What does it say for "worry"? That's different than either "lorry" or "sorry".
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We have a choice of two u's: either ŭ or û. The first is listed in the pronunciation guide as being the vowel in cut; the second is listed as being the vowel in urge, term, firm, word and heard. In RP that would correspond to /ʌ/ and /ɜ/, respectively. (In Scottish English there are three different vowels represented in that list, one of which is shared with cut.)
Grant Hutchison
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Yeah, I pronounce sorry differently from lorry as well. I pronounce the o in sorry the same way I pronounce the second a in safari, so that it’s a homonym with the Indian dress, sari.
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Last edited by Jens; 2019-Oct-09 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Add italics to make it easier to understand
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And for worry, and I think most Americans, pronounce it like urge or word. There are accents where it is pronounced like “but.”
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Last edited by Jens; 2019-Oct-09 at 12:00 AM. Reason: Add italics to make it easier to understand
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I think that at least in my case, it is just elision, as we are basically dropping the 'o'. In fact, if it makes it easier to understand, I (and most Americans, I think) pronounce lavatory and laboratory exactly the same, except that the v is replaced by br. I suppose there may be Americans who do do metathesis, in the sense that they pronounce it with the r after the vowel, in the same way that some Americans use metathesis in prescription , so that it sounds like "perscription" (quite common) and pretty (pertty) (not so common).
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Our power is out. Oops, now it's on!
Anyhow it's been upsetting to the kitty because I'm sitting in the recliner, and she wants me to recline it so she can join me. But it's an electric recliner!
Last edited by Trebuchet; 2019-Oct-09 at 03:26 PM. Reason: typo
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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Where I grew up Worry is pronounced like War.
"I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright
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My point was about whether speakers are dropping the o before the r, or the a after it. It usually sounds to me as if the a is dropped and the -or- metathesized to -ro-. Speakers say labro- rather than labra-, in other words.
But, honestly, we've already spent more time on it than a passing remark deserves.
Grant Hutchison
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Some fellow composed a rather clever poem for The Baker Street Journal long ago, about how two different radio players of Sherlock Holmes would directly address the police inspector. It went something like this ...
Basil Rathbone speaks like God
When he pronounces it "Lestrade."
But Sir John Gielgud won't be swayed,
As he pronounces it "Lestrade."
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The fact that the a box of tissues is increasing its entropy, well the reason its entropy is increasing I think I have bit of a head cold.
From the wilderness into the cosmos.
You can not be afraid of the wind, Enterprise: Broken Bow.
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but current actors find it hard
to deviate much from "Lestrade"
sicut vis videre esto
When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
Originally Posted by Ken G
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A recent on-line dialect map indicated that the area where I grew up is the only part of the US that pronounces the following three words differently:
Mary
Marry
Merry
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I may have many faults, but being wrong ain't one of them. - Jimmy Hoffa
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The power went out four or five times this morning, all but the last being for just one second or so. The last was about a half hour.
Each time, the printer woke up and went intoIntentionally Wasting InkPrinter Maintenance mode. That was enough to put it over the edge so when my wife tried to print something, the black just wasn't there. A search of the utterly disorganized office ensued, and I finally found a black cartridge in a box. No color ones, and they are marginal at best but we can get by. I really need to do something about the office.
Anyhow, I was heading into town so I stopped at the art and office store. Nope, they don't have cartridges -- HP will not sell them through small businesses. Rather infuriating, that. Off to Amazon, I guess.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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