View Poll Results: Were the results genuine or skewed?

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  • Genuine - the winner fully deserves her title.

    1 9.09%
  • Skewed due to home field advantage

    1 9.09%
  • Skewed due to contrived voting

    0 0%
  • Don't know enough to comment

    9 81.82%
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Thread: Miss World 2012 - Faked or merely Homefield Advantage?

  1. #1
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    Miss World 2012 - Faked or merely Homefield Advantage?

    Article.

    Quote: "I was not surprised at all to see that the winner of the pageant was Miss China given that it was held in a Chinese city with Chinese hosts and a huge group of screaming Chinese fans that erupted into applause every time she was mentioned," one commenter wrote..."

  2. 2012-Aug-22, 10:49 AM

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    Reading the subject I had this weird flash that it was a home field advantage because the winner was human.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    Reading the subject I had this weird flash that it was a home field advantage because the winner was human.


    Really, the anti-male from Ceta Alpha IX had some very lovely tentacles.
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    There isn't any way to win in this situation.

    The Huffington Post author derided the crowd for 'erupting into screaming applause' everytime the Chinese contestant was announced or went on stage. Evidently he has never been to any kind of sporting event or anything else to know how home crowds react to the home team.

    The only way to avoid accusations of cheating or fixing would have been for the Chinese candidate to not win. If that was going to be the case then she may as well have just stayed home. Everyone is just a sore loser. If you lost it's because someone is cheating or doping or they paid off the judge. Somewhere along the line it became honorable to cry after losing rather than just shaking the victor's hand and then doing anything needed to come out on top the next time around.

    No matter how fast, strong, beautiful or smart you are there will always be someone who is just a little better. I think that's a universal truth and it doesn't apply just to the human race.

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    I have no problem with crying after losing. Losing hurts. However, there is still an obligation to be gracious to the winner even through your own pain.
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    The poll lacks an option: Who Cares? Beauty contests are an idea whose time has gone.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

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    Quote Originally Posted by primummobile View Post
    No matter how fast, strong, beautiful or smart you are there will always be someone who is just a little better. I think that's a universal truth and it doesn't apply just to the human race.
    For a quality which is not subjective (speed?) that statement must be false for exactly one person.

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    I really doubt it's the same person who is fastest, strongest, most beautiful and smartest at the same time.

    Even just fastest and strongest at the same time would likely be impossible due to the way muscles work.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    The poll lacks an option: Who Cares? Beauty contests are an idea whose time has gone.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    I really doubt it's the same person who is fastest, strongest, most beautiful and smartest at the same time..
    Actually, I am, and the most modest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HenrikOlsen View Post
    I really doubt it's the same person who is fastest, strongest, most beautiful and smartest at the same time.

    Even just fastest and strongest at the same time would likely be impossible due to the way muscles work.
    It was just a rhetorical device to make a point. The point being that there are many ways to judge superiority and no one can be the best in all of those.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gillianren View Post
    I have no problem with crying after losing. Losing hurts. However, there is still an obligation to be gracious to the winner even through your own pain.
    By "crying" I meant being a sore loser.

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    Until anyone can come up with some kind of evidence that points to something, who cares?
    Coincidences happen.

    I don't know how often I've seen somebody pull thier own (or a relative's) raffle ticket out of a barrel. I've done it myself.
    Sure; we all start with the "rigged" comments, but only in jest.

    I guess the lack of evidence of an issue means that I'll put it into "we don't know enough" since we don't have an option for "beer". After all, the accusers are mostly anonymous posts to a news article.

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    My understanding of events like this is they're often decided before they even begin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
    For a quality which is not subjective (speed?) that statement must be false for exactly one person.
    Speed is subjective. Speed over 100m? 1500 or 10000m? Speed on a bicycle? Speed on a track or a trail? Acceleration? Is it running or swimming?

    In America, we place a lot of emphasis on the 40 yard dash to tell us how "fast" football players are, but a distance that short doesn't measure absolute speed. Rather, it measures acceleration from a stop. It takes humans about 60m to get up to their top speed from a stop. Since 40 yards is just under 37m, there is no way to tell who is the "fastest" in that distance. Yet, we still call it "speed" anyway. However, it is useful since a running back only has a couple yards to accelerate before he takes possession of the football.

    The point is that "speed" is an ambiguous term and so is "fast". We give out these titles, but they really don't mean anything other than that someone is the best on that day at competing in a particular event. Whether they will be the best tomorrow or next week or even next year is anyone's guess.

    Absolutely, I would agree that there is one person on this planet who is the fastest person. But you would have to decide if by "fastest" you meant a momentary speed, a speed that was sustained for 10m, or whatever. If you are talking about running on a track, which is what we usually mean by "fastest", and you are talking about the 100m race, which is usually how we judge that, then the person who has the highest momentary speed isn't always the person who wins. Rather, it is the person who is able to maintain their own highest speed for the longest time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by primummobile View Post
    Speed is subjective.
    What you described is not the subjectivity of speed, but the subjectivity of the conditions to define "fastest".
    Once the conditions are defined, speed is objective.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    The poll lacks an option: Who Cares? Beauty contests are an idea whose time has gone.
    Well, as long as men have eyes, there will be beauty contests, but I know what you mean. I had no knowledge of the Miss World results until I read this thread, and now I know just what I've read in this thread.
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    Quote Originally Posted by primummobile View Post
    There isn't any way to win in this situation.
    But she did... Just kidding - I know what you mean.

    The Huffington Post author derided the crowd for 'erupting into screaming applause' everytime the Chinese contestant was announced or went on stage. Evidently he has never been to any kind of sporting event or anything else to know how home crowds react to the home team.
    And yet, when it's been hosted elsewhere, the crowds politely clapped for all contestants, not merely their own.

    The only way to avoid accusations of cheating or fixing would have been for the Chinese candidate to not win.
    I think the accusation of skewed results cam from the fact that the crowds were so flagrantly biased that they may have biased the judges. I'm pretty sure the judges were from around the world, but they're still human, the reaction of the crowd does create a bias.

    If that was going to be the case then she may as well have just stayed home. Everyone is just a sore loser. If you lost it's because someone is cheating or doping or they paid off the judge. Somewhere along the line it became honorable to cry after losing rather than just shaking the victor's hand and then doing anything needed to come out on top the next time around.
    I'm not a looser -- I didn't even compete! The point is that I find it strange that Sanya, China, has hosted the Miss World finals in 2003, 2004, 2005, 2007, and 2010, despite the fact that more than 100 countries are represented. This year's competition was hosted in Ordos, Inner Mongolia, China. So, we have two winners from China, one in 2007, another in 2012, and both times it was hosted in China. By the way, it's not only entirely acceptable in the Chinese culture to artificially tip the scales, I wouldn't be at all surprised if the audience was specifically briefed to do so.

    Quote Originally Posted by Perikles View Post
    Actually, I am, and the most modest.
    Lol!

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    I vote for "luck overflow". She had a 1 in 2 billion chance of being Miss China. If you are lucky enough to do that, then winning Miss World just icing on the cake.
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solfe View Post
    I vote for "luck overflow". She had a 1 in 2 billion chance of being Miss China. If you are lucky enough to do that, then winning Miss World just icing on the cake.
    Given the nature of the situation, you're chances are far less than "billions." Perhaps 1 in 3. The point involves the media vs the lie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    What you described is not the subjectivity of speed, but the subjectivity of the conditions to define "fastest".
    Once the conditions are defined, speed is objective.
    That wasn't the point. The point was that there are different types of speed. The two most common are average speed and instantaneous speed. Unless you define the type of speed you are measuring, the results are open to interpretation.

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    If you look at it another way, China is almost 20% of the global population. So winning twice in six years is not that shocking. I find it more odd that China hosted the contest twice in six years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by primummobile View Post
    That wasn't the point. The point was that there are different types of speed. The two most common are average speed and instantaneous speed. Unless you define the type of speed you are measuring, the results are open to interpretation.
    At the risk of being nitpicky, we are still talking about the conditions of the measurement, not the measurement itself.
    Once defined it is objective. That was my point.
    I think we agree, but we are getting lost in minutiae and the wording. I lost your point in all the examples you gave.

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    Quote Originally Posted by primummobile View Post
    If you look at it another way, China is almost 20% of the global population. So winning twice in six years is not that shocking. I find it more odd that China hosted the contest twice in six years.
    I look at it that way too, but it's hard to look at it as a direct ratio since we are talking about the extreme of a population.
    Same with Olympic medalists. The larger the population, the larger pool you have to choose from. Of course, that doesn't rule out a better choice found in a small pool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoggerDan View Post
    Given the nature of the situation, you're chances are far less than "billions." Perhaps 1 in 3. The point involves the media vs the lie.
    At the Albright Knox Art Museum, there is a painting which is simply a sheet of canvas painted green. I have seen it more than 100 times, yet never bothered to read the name plate. Why? While soothing, it is not displayed within the context of a body of work nor does it appear to be inspired or constructed with care. To me, it isn't even art. I can't believe they display it or paid money for it.

    That is pretty much my take on beauty pageants. It is a purely subjective choice with little or no reasonable justification. Might as well throw darts at a board to pick the winner.
    Solfe

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    At the risk of being nitpicky, we are still talking about the conditions of the measurement, not the measurement itself.
    Once defined it is objective. That was my point.
    I think we agree, but we are getting lost in minutiae and the wording. I lost your point in all the examples you gave.
    Sorry. I tend to be too wordy for my own good.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    I look at it that way too, but it's hard to look at it as a direct ratio since we are talking about the extreme of a population.
    Same with Olympic medalists. The larger the population, the larger pool you have to choose from. Of course, that doesn't rule out a better choice found in a small pool.
    This is true. I think this is most evident in high school sports. Larger schools, as a general rule, compete at a much higher level than what smaller schools do. Much of that disappears at levels above that, at least within the same country, because the participants are no longer restricted by geography.

    I was only looking at it as a direct ratio to show the one extreme. If every woman on the planet entered the contest, someone from China should be expected to win about a fifth of the time. You can extrapolate it to the extreme of the population and get different numbers. But even if you are talking about a subjective quality, like beauty-for whatever you define that to be China should still have 20% of the world's beauty.

    I think the fact that they have not had a higher medal count than the United States in the Olympics can be explained by a number of things like culture, access to training, and race. (by 'race' I mean physical limitations and strengths. Not trying to be a jerk)

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    Quote Originally Posted by primummobile View Post
    I think the fact that they have not had a higher medal count than the United States in the Olympics can be explained by a number of things like culture, access to training, and race. (by 'race' I mean physical limitations and strengths. Not trying to be a jerk)
    Same with the beauty contest. I would think a more vain culture would have more "beauties".
    The "beauties" would mix with other "beauties" in a more vain culture while "beauties" mixing with "uglies" would dilute the "beauty pool" in less vain cultures.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Same with the beauty contest. I would think a more vain culture would have more "beauties".
    The "beauties" would mix with other "beauties" in a more vain culture while "beauties" mixing with "uglies" would dilute the "beauty pool" in less vain cultures.
    That's actually kind of funny. That's what makes it all so subjective, in fact. Just yesterday I was telling my coworkers how beautiful my wife is. When we were first married she couldn't cook and I did all of the cooking. Then she took several cooking classes (all while studying for her PhD--very impressive) and her beauty quotient tripled. But outwardly she still looks the same.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    The poll lacks an option: Who Cares? Beauty contests are an idea whose time has gone.
    "Hey! Hey! It is NOT a beauty pageant! It is a scholarship program."
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