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Thread: The Longest Crater Chain in Our Solar System, To-Date

  1. #31
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    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  2. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by ToSeek
    It is a nice overal map image but it is too far from the surface to see fine surface detail.

    That image ToSeek does look like it has a seam but the seam cuts through the larger crater and is not even close to the site of either of the crater chains in this image:


    Thermal Emission Imaging System CGI Mars Map

  3. #33
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    Thanks ToSeek, that nails it as an image artifact. I looked hard but couln't be sure about seams but I was questioning the mechanisim that could cause long crater chains. The simple solution is always the best

  4. #34
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    I'm sure that's an image artifact. There's also a very faint, third line off to the right.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by smoothvirus
    There's also a very faint, third line off to the right.
    Darn you! I was just going to mention that!

    Yeah there is certainly something wrong with this image...it shows "stuff" that just isn't there.
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by FieryIce
    That image ToSeek does look like it has a seam but the seam cuts through the larger crater and is not even close to the site of either of the crater chains in this image:
    There is no reason to expect to see the same seams (or any seams, necessarily) from a completely different dataset.

    Meanwhile, I'm still waiting for you to come up with some actual images that show your crater chains.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  7. #37
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    It is a nice overal map image but it is too far from the surface to see fine surface detail.
    Ummm, the image ToSeek posted seems to be at a much higher resolution than your example...

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F.
    I'm sorry...I assumed that everyone would recognize FieryIce...

    ...a short history...

    About 6 months ago, a poster (Craterchains) started posting "stuff" about how crater chains on other planets and moons are actually evidence of an ancient alien war. FieryIce is Craterchains "partner" in this "theory". Craterchains was banned because he couldn't follow the rules of the board. FieryIce hasn't posted since then (that I know of)...until today.
    yeah, i have definite echoes of déja vu here, R.A.F.... i wonder if we can make a prediction on how this thread will develop? #-o

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morrolan
    ...i wonder if we can make a prediction on how this thread will develop? #-o
    Only time will tell. I am kinda surprised that FieryIce hasn't mentioned the "alien war" yet...but the thread is still young...

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.A.F.
    ...I am kinda surprised that FieryIce hasn't mentioned the "alien war" yet...but the thread is still young...
    I'll mention it: there was no alien war. :wink: That leaves us open to other explanations the strongest of which is some form of image artifact.

  11. #41
    To stay on topic.

    The beginning latitude/longitude is Lat: 73.781 Lon: 8.312E and the ending is Lat: 42.328 Lon: 18.249E.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chip
    I'll mention it: there was no alien war.
    Strictly speaking, we have not proven that there was no alien war. Perhaps there was one, but no evidence was left that we can see.

  13. #43
    Staying on Topic

    That means in length this crater chains stretches over 31.453 degrees latitude and angles 9.937 degrees in longitude, that is in Mars latitude and longitude distance.

  14. #44
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    Enough of this sillyness.

    I took the photo and enchanced it to make the third line at the right of the image more evident. It is indicated with the yellow arrow.



    I then placed lines on the image that delineate the "features" in question.




    I then duplicated the layer with the lines and recolored it. I then shifted the layer to the left until the line corresponding to the rightmost "feature" line in the image lies directly beside the line corresponding to the leftmost "feature" line.




    The alignment is pixel for pixel perfect. This can only be a digital artifact as there is no plausible way to generate such actual lines on terrain, especially not a "crater chain".

  15. #45
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    FieryIce, I hate to break this to you, but you seem to be the only one on this thread who sees an actual chain of craters...and not some form of image artifact...so discussing how far it "stretches" is pointless...
    The facts, gentlemen, and nothing but the facts, for careful eyes are narrowly watching. Isaac Asimov

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    This can only be a digital artifact as there is no plausible way to generate such actual lines on terrain, especially not a "crater chain".
    Very nicely done! =D> =D> =D>

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    Enough of this sillyness.

    ...

    The alignment is pixel for pixel perfect. This can only be a digital artifact as there is no plausible way to generate such actual lines on terrain, especially not a "crater chain".
    Very impressive. That should, but probably won't, be the end of this debate.

  18. #48
    Evan's theory could have been only some what plausible if he had stopped with only one blue line adjacent to the yellow line but where he went wrong was creating the second blue line where there is no matching surface feature, creating a false and erroneous theory.

    It looks good but full of errors and still does not explain how a stitch line could configure itself into round craters shoulder to shoulder.
    [-X

  19. #49
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    You don't get it. The second blue line you refer to is irrelevant and doesn't delineate anything. It is the previous center yellow line shifted left. There was no reason to erase it. It isn't a theory, it is an analysis. The analysis conclusively show the "features" to be display artifacts. If those lines were actually on the terrain surface they would have to be at an absolutely critical angle to each other, not parallel in order to appear parallel with the perspective induced by the viewing angle. The odds of them aligning perfectly from a chance viewing angle are astronomically small. The odds of them aligning if a digital artifact that repeats periodically are 100%.

  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evan
    .. If those lines were actually on the terrain surface they would have to be at an absolutely critical angle to each other, not parallel in order to appear parallel with the perspective induced by the viewing angle.
    So it's simple -- if FieryIce can find an image from a different viewing angle which shows these crater lines --- that'd be proof that Evan's analysis is incorrect.

    Of course, so far the other images we have don't show these crater lines. This seems to be a bit of a problem, don't you think??

  21. #51
    how a stitch line could configure itself into round craters shoulder to shoulder
    Evan's analysis then does not account for this question?

  22. #52
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    FieryIce,

    How familiar are you with graphics compression and decompression algorithms? Do you know what artifacts are produced by wavelet compression or fractal compression? I am a beta tester for a large graphics software house and I assure you that such artifacts can be produced by software.

  23. #53
    Evan, that's nice you work for a graphics company but there is no way you can explain graphics compression and decompression algorithms resulting in round crater formations.



















    The entire span of the crater chain.

  24. #54
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    I see you are completely ignoring the total improbability of the alignment issue that I pointed out.

    Evan, that's nice you work for a graphics company but there is no way you can explain graphics compression and decompression algorithms resulting in round crater formations.
    Actually, I can explain how artifacts could result that resemble round formations.

  25. #55
    Crater Chains have a beginning and an end comprised of round craters, this so called stitch lines or artifact idea would be a uniform line not consisting of round craters and not showing erosion.

  26. #56
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    Like all other lossy compression schemes, fractal compression also introduces artifacts. These include softness and substitution of details with other details.
    (my emphasis)

    From here

    Fractal compression isn't the only compression that exhibits unexpected artifacts. Many algorithms do, especially at edges.

    Please explain why compression artifacts of a landscape with small round craters that do belong cannot produce artifacts that look like small round craters.

  27. #57
    Let's quote Themis:

    Note: this THEMIS visual image has not been radiometrically nor geometrically calibrated for this preliminary release. An empirical correction has been performed to remove instrumental effects. A linear shift has been applied in the cross-track and down-track direction to approximate spacecraft and planetary motion. Fully calibrated and geometrically projected images will be released through the Planetary Data System in accordance with Project policies at a later time.
    The image calibrating done is not Fractal compression.

    Let's quote Evan's linked page on fractual compression:

    fractal compression is asymmetrical. Although it takes a long time to compress an image, decompression is very fast. These asymmetrical methods are well suited to such applications as video on a CD-ROM where the user doesn't care about compression but does expect to see images quickly.
    Left field!

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by FieryIce
    Let's quote Themis:

    Note: this THEMIS visual image has not been radiometrically nor geometrically calibrated for this preliminary release. An empirical correction has been performed to remove instrumental effects. A linear shift has been applied in the cross-track and down-track direction to approximate spacecraft and planetary motion. Fully calibrated and geometrically projected images will be released through the Planetary Data System in accordance with Project policies at a later time.
    The image calibrating done is not Fractal compression.
    That disclaimer does not apply to the image under discussion and is therefore irrelevant.
    Everything I need to know I learned through Googling.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by FieryIce
    Left field!
    ...I don't know...third base!

  30. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by snowcelt
    Well this sucks. You see something that jumps at you and you think, woo! Then, as per normal, it is a fool trying to make another fool. When I first saw that double track I hoped that it was something neat. I am glad I was not credulous. I sure wished to be.

    I have little real understanding as to how things happen, but, even I saw something that was not right.
    My assumption was that this is where Bottomos impacted the surface.

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