Page 2 of 39 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 1154

Thread: How long until we colonize the moon

  1. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,544
    China is doing research to grow food on the moon

    http://usa.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...t_17216937.htm

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    According to a 2011 article in Popular Mechanics:

    Researchers at the University of Arizona are operating a moon-farm prototype that yields 1100 pounds of edible plants. per year.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,544
    The article in Popular Mechanics talks about growing stuff underground on the moon to avoid them from "cosmic rays, micrometeorites and extreme temperatures". The Chinese are taking a different approach and looking for plants that can withstand the harsh radiation and extreme variation of temperatures. Also note the choice of plants - they have rice (an important ingredient in the Asian diet).

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The article in Popular Mechanics talks about growing stuff underground on the moon to avoid them from "cosmic rays, micrometeorites and extreme temperatures". The Chinese are taking a different approach and looking for plants that can withstand the harsh radiation and extreme variation of temperatures. Also note the choice of plants - they have rice (an important ingredient in the Asian diet).
    Maybe at some time there will be many varieties of farms used. It's a big Moon, after all.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,544
    That would indicate more then one moon base. Increases the chances of it developing to a settlement.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    That would indicate more then one moon base. Increases the chances of it developing to a settlement.
    I don't doubt that in time, there will be multiple bases. Both poles, at least. I can't predict how long that will take, though.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    4,303
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Separating them would IIRC require much more energy than cracking H2O. For that kind of energy cost, we could probably find much better ways to propel our spacecraft.
    Perhaps, but any self-expanding installation is likely going to want to be refining aluminium any way.

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greater London
    Posts
    89
    This scifi tv promo gives the exact impression of an illusion. "For decades we have dreamed of travelling beyond our own solar system."

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejOkf_C-mo0

    Just like Space Odessy of what ever, its just an illusion.

    And sure, I know its all scifi, but it isn't that different without a security object set first to get somewhere out there.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    And sure, I know its all scifi, but it isn't that different without a security object set first to get somewhere out there.
    I don't understand what you're saying here.

    What does an ad for Star Trek Enterprise have to do with this thread?
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,544
    The next phase of China's exploration of the moon has started.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/ch..._133038491.htm

    I could not find any new pictures. Does anyone know if they have been published.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greater London
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I don't understand what you're saying here.

    What does an ad for Star Trek Enterprise have to do with this thread?
    Exactly what I've quoted, that going anywhere in the space frontier concerning Astronauts is an image of power, not a lovely walk in the park. We can blur entertainment and reality with illusions of ourselves, ofcourse the former being just that entertainment.

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    Exactly what I've quoted, that going anywhere in the space frontier concerning Astronauts is an image of power, not a lovely walk in the park.
    I think you are attributing meanings to this discussion that no one actually said. If you mean that space travel is extremely difficult, well, yes. We already know that. "Not because it is easy, but because it is hard."

    As for it being an "image of power", it is that to some people, yes. But it has far more value than that to many others. It represents the potential of the future human race to expand beyond our nest, create new homes, access open-ended resources, increase the chances of human survival, and discover much more about the Universe than we can from our limited view at the bottom of Earth's gravity well.

    Everything in the universe that is not on our one planet, requires space travel to reach. The Moon is a good first step, and a giant leap.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greater London
    Posts
    89
    I'm starting to ponder if your in denial, that is what I'm getting at overall, none of what you have typed will happen without a driving factor such as security.

    Its exactly like this great tribute clip to Apollo 17, but its pure fantasy! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMCjCgbZxCo
    Last edited by TheyDidGoToTheMoon; 2014-Jan-13 at 11:03 AM.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    I'm starting to ponder if your in denial, that is what I'm getting at overall, none of what you have typed will happen without a driving factor such as security.

    Its exactly like this great tribute clip to Apollo 17, but its pure fantasy!
    There are many driving factors, as I said.

    "It's pure fantasy" sounds like being in denial to me. Look at what's currently happening, private space stations are under development, private human-rated spacecraft are in development, and both are making solid progress. Launch costs are coming down, and reusable stages and craft are being actively researched by the same companies that successfully now supply the ISS, which will lower costs even further.

    These are the first baby steps towards human expansion into space that is not limited by government agendas. It won't happen soon, but it is rapidly becoming possible.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,544
    Looks like India has plans to join the moon party on 2017

    http://www.space-travel.com/reports/..._2017_999.html

    Anyone has information if Japan and Europe have any plans to land on the moon.

  16. #46
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greater London
    Posts
    89
    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    There are many driving factors, as I said.

    "It's pure fantasy" sounds like being in denial to me. Look at what's currently happening, private space stations are under development, private human-rated spacecraft are in development, and both are making solid progress. Launch costs are coming down, and reusable stages and craft are being actively researched by the same companies that successfully now supply the ISS, which will lower costs even further.

    These are the first baby steps towards human expansion into space that is not limited by government agendas. It won't happen soon, but it is rapidly becoming possible.
    No it won't happen. That is another illusion. Galactic may very well happen orbital only.

    That is long way off, may be never.

  17. #47
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    No it won't happen. That is another illusion.
    And your reason for believing this?
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  18. #48
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greater London
    Posts
    89
    As I've typed previously is the answer. If you have viewed the Apollo 17 forty years clip the narrator has a very humble view of space flight, and I share it.

    But the true realisation is that it only happened because of a security threat. So like the clip above or the promo it portrays an illusionary view of space flight. Only those probes such as Pathfinder can give us that sense of good will exploration.. I personally created a clip on youtube portraying a path of exploration, very short edited some clips and put it together. I even thought Pathfinder had taken color/colour video footage, as I found out from a NASA mission media specialist via email, there never was. It was only scifi portrayal from the tv series shown in the promo clip, that tv's show theme tune is the illusionary view of humanity's reach for the stars, we are all, or most of us are far too Earth bound to see it differently.

    Eric Jones the Apollo Lunar historian clearly states the whole purpose of going to the moon was of a security, but also additionally it cost too much to continue and any future mission is again costly. So the only way that Apollo could be repeated by public backing is another security threat or some energy resource grab. Fusion has its problems, so it may not really be an answer to our planet's problem.

  19. #49
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    Eric Jones the Apollo Lunar historian clearly states the whole purpose of going to the moon was of a security, but also additionally it cost too much to continue and any future mission is again costly. So the only way that Apollo could be repeated by public backing is another security threat or some energy resource grab.
    Apollo is a poor example to follow for the very reasons you describe. The original stepping stone model is a much more do-able and repeatable (if more time-consuming) form of Moon landing than a one-shot surface to surface giant rocket. Remember, Apollo had a hard time limit of one decade due to JFK's speech. They chose the fastest method to reach the Moon, not the best.

    I completely disagree about what you think are the "only" possible motives. Science, adventurism, expansionism, national prestige, private accomplishment, non-energy resource acquisition, are also all potential drivers.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  20. #50
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greater London
    Posts
    89
    Nothing has happened since then, January 14 2004 is the date the former leader announced a plan to send Astronauts to the moon, and it ended in tatters. You can view it on youtube, the complete version not the short NASA site one that was there in 2005 - 2009. Similar to his dad's idea nearly twenty five years ago, the congress wouldn't fund it. Which I have already mentioned that about Mars in the thread.

    Longterm space program such as a moon mission won't happen. A one off landing, just to collect rocks, could be possible, but still costs money.

    Private enterprise won't do the above.

  21. #51
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    Nothing has happened since then...
    Wrong, things are happening now. The circumstances are, as I said, very different than they were then. And the US does not hold a monopoly on space access or Moon missions, as China is currently proving.


    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    Longterm space program such as a moon mission won't happen
    ...
    Private enterprise won't do the above.
    In your opinion. I disagree.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  22. #52
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Greater London
    Posts
    89
    The only rocket built that took those Astronauts to the moon is in a museum.

    The idea that private companies will make that happen is not realistic. It is exactly ten years since W Bush announced Human beings are going into the cosmos. He'll be remembered and who ever wrote that speech for him as illusionary power projecting strategist for American dominace of the solar system. How ever since there was no actual contest or conflict, only with Al-Qaeda. I don't remember Bin Laden announcing the spread of militant Islam against America's capitalism or what not out to the Solar system.

    I know I have to be careful with making any political assertions. But history is now history, just putting my view into view.

    Government, private companies, and security threat is what will get a mission to the moon again.

  23. #53
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    The only rocket built that took those Astronauts to the moon is in a museum.

    The idea that private companies will make that happen is not realistic. It is exactly ten years since W Bush announced Human beings are going into the cosmos. He'll be remembered and who ever wrote that speech for him as illusionary power projecting strategist for American dominace of the solar system.
    Look at what is actually happening now, not at what happened ten years ago, twenty-five, or in 1969. Do some research into current space access technology and plans. History, for all that it sets the foundations for the present, is in the past. We will not reach the Moon by re-enacting history; that time is gone. We are now seeing new, unprecedented alternate pathways being laid down. The first stepping stones are already quarried, they just have to be shaped and placed on the path.

    Government, private companies, and security threat is what will get a mission to the moon again.
    Again, I disagree. To think that the way things were done once is only one way to do things, is to ignore the events unfolding around you.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  24. #54
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    The beautiful north coast (Ohio)
    Posts
    49,162
    Quote Originally Posted by TheyDidGoToTheMoon View Post
    <snip>
    How ever since there was no actual contest or conflict, only with Al-Qaeda. I don't remember Bin Laden announcing the spread of militant Islam against America's capitalism or what not out to the Solar system.

    I know I have to be careful with making any political assertions. But history is now history, just putting my view into view.
    TheyDidGoToTheMoon,

    This is not the place to put your view into view. You were warned previously about similar comments. Ignoring that warning will earn you an infraction.
    At night the stars put on a show for free (Carole King)

    All moderation in purple - The rules

  25. #55
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,544
    I agree with Noclevername. After 40 years we now have a lander on the moon and it is from China. Russia has indicated it too wants to go to the moon and India has plans to put a lander on the moon in 2017. Maned missions will follow from these countries. The US will have to make up their mind if want to join or go after new destinations.

    Isn't there also a race to have a lander on the moon by 2015?

  26. #56
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    10,259
    Unless there is a massive change in corporate culture, free enterprise won't colonize anyplace: the returns will take decades to show up, not the weeks demanded by most boards. There is money to be made in space, but not beyond geosynchronous orbit for decades, if ever.
    Information about American English usage here and here. Floating point issues? Please read this before posting.

    How do things fly? This explains it all.

    Actually they can't: "Heavier-than-air flying machines are impossible." - Lord Kelvin, president, Royal Society, 1895.



  27. #57
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Posts
    101
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Isn't there also a race to have a lander on the moon by 2015?
    That might be the Google Lunar Prize, just look at the designs of all those teams! Hopefully some of them will fly, and land, and roll or jump!:
    http://www.googlelunarxprize.org/

    NASA seems to have finished the Moon. Like you won't see an ex president step down to the post of foreign secratary under another president, NASA seems to think it is below them to land a probe on the Moon. The closest they will get is the meteropid retrieval mission, if it is followed through, which I think is unlikely since it has no value with regard to science, planetary defence, asteroid mining, exploratory human space travel or public inspiration.

  28. #58
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,660
    Agreed. However if there is money to be made from orbital tourism then the technology to keep people alive in space with fewer resources from Earth may advance quite a bit, the price per person to orbit may drop, and the public perception of space as being for the very, very, very few may change to it being for the few. All of which would help ease the way for some future philanthropist or government to fund a colony for the sake of colonisation rather than profit.
    Last edited by marsbug; 2014-Jan-14 at 01:35 PM. Reason: I put in a pun that read like an incitement to revolution.

  29. #59
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,544
    Just like the ISS and Antarctic colonies, the first moon colony will be for research. Only when they find things that can be exploited (like minerals or strong interest of tourism etc) will we get commercial interest to form colonies.

  30. #60
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,034
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Only when they find things that can be exploited (like minerals or strong interest of tourism etc) will we get commercial interest to form colonies.
    Colonies will probably not be formed by commercial interests per se; Vacation sites, temporary settlements, boomtowns or work camps, perhaps. If the Moon is actually colonized, truly permanently settled (gravity allowing), it will be by people who want to spend their entire lives there and raise kids there, idealists of one stripe or another. And that will have to wait until the costs of reaching the Moon become affordable for large amounts of people, which will first require the development of Near-Earth orbital and Lunar infrastructure.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •