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Thread: SpaceX

  1. #2461
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    I hereby christen thee

    STEELY DAN!
    XM

  2. #2462
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    Everyday Astronaut @Erdayastronaut
    Besides turning turbines into soup, is it really some of these joints and stuff that are more prone to failure at such high pressures?
    |
    Elon Musk @elonmusk
    Replying to
    @Erdayastronaut and @Cor_SPACE
    Theres so much power going through this engine that its close to the limit of the known physics of materials in many places
    |
    Viv @flcnhvy
    How many superalloys, such as SX500, had to be developed in order to make Raptor a reality?
    |
    Elon Musk @elonmusk
    Just SX500 so far, but we use many superalloys developed by others, eg Inco 718+. If anyone has 718++, that would be helpful haha. Massive engineering work in the casting, printing & machining of Raptor far more than in design of the engine itself!

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1177630155801419778

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1177631358987849729

    IMG_20190927_152129.jpg

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1177662806117584896

  3. #2463
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    Sooooo...shiny. To what extent does this resemble a production Starship? No windows and interior, obviously. But in terms of dimensions and overall construction?
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  4. #2464
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    It's shape is very close to operational vehicles, thorough there will be mission specific variants; crewed, cargo, a propellant tanker, a satellite deployer, etc.

    In terms of mass etc. this is a battleship Starship upper stage test vehicle; built much heavier (200t vs the target of ~100-120t), fewer engines (3 vs 6-9), and the internayout and systems will no doubt evolve. The same will be true of the Super Heavy booster, which should start construction soon.

    Like with Falcon 9, it'll likely get larger over time. F9 stretched from ~55 meters to 70 meters when its tanks were lengthened. Starship and Super Heavy will probably do the same, and the follow up system will go from 9 meters in diameter to a projected 18 meters.

  5. #2465
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    Progress report on Starship, SpaceX's gigantic interplanetary spacecraft and high-speed intercontinental transport. Also the Super Heavy booster rocket, the Raptor engine that powers both, and their launch sites.

    September 28, 2019
    2000 Eastern, 0000 UT

    https://youtu.be/sOpMrVnjYeY

  6. #2466
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    Moved up 1 hour

    1900 Eastern, 2300 UT

    Mary @BocaChicaGal
    Rain showers at Boca Chica today. ☔
    @NASASpaceflight
    https://t.co/ylqMfO8BOL

    IMG_20190928_140949.jpg

    https://twitter.com/BocaChicaGal/sta...85995242909697
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2019-Sep-28 at 06:43 PM.

  7. #2467
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    OK, the time has been bouncing so finally SpaceX put out an official tweet

    1900 Central, 2000 Eastern, so 0000 UT

  8. #2468
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    Time moved to 2000 Central, 2100 Eastern, 0100 UTC.

    Weather.

  9. #2469
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  10. #2470
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    The event revealed they'll build another Starship at both Boca Chica TX and Cocoa FL using single piece rings, then build a Super Heavy at each site and start flying stacks. Full stack flights in mid-2020.

  11. #2471
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  12. #2472
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    Any link to a transcript of the event or anything? Any update on when the 25km hop or possible orbital flight of the current prototype will be done?
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  13. #2473
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    I initially missed that that was Falcon I alongside and was thinking it was F9! Whew! It's still awfully big.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  14. #2474
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    My quick notes which may be missing an item or two

    Big one first;

    Things will move fast. 1-2 months for 20km hop in Mk1. Next flight might just be orbital with booster. Mk3 will start construction in 1 month. Building ships and boosters at Boca Chica and Florida as fast as possible. Improving design and manufacturing method exponentialy. Mk1/2 use plating Mk3+ single weld segments lighter and cheaper. Mk 2 expected in a couple of months, Mk3 in 3 months, Mk4 4-5 months. Reach orbit in 6 months.
    Boiloff prevention: vacuum jacketing, insulation, later cryocoolers for long duration.

    Contamination of Mars: cold & high UV Earth bugs won't live long. (NOTE: also perchlorates etc.)

    Boca will get more buildings, LOX production, Sabatier CH4 production.

    FAA permissions: minimal delays for regulatory reasons. No fundamental obstacles, working with locals. Risk to village low, but want tiny.

    Life support: pressurized volume ~1100 m3 (about ISS), could handle 100 pax. For Mars, regenerative. System is straightforward.

    NOTE: with 1100 m3 of recirculated air volume at launch; CO2 scrubbers, humidity control, and stored oxygen, cislunar and LEO missions shouldn't need the Mars ECLSS.

    2 Starships at each site, then boosters. Building up Raptor production is long pole. Wants 31 engines.

    Raptor production: 1 every 8 days, 1/day in Q1.

    Theoretically could fly several times a day.

    Synergy: Tesla Mars Rover? EV's fine for Mars. Boring Co machines? Sure.

    Super Heavy: 7 engines gimbal, the rest (outer rings) are fixed. Avoid entry burn if possible.
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2019-Sep-29 at 09:28 PM.

  15. #2475
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    He didn't happen to mention the little nudge that Jim Bridenstine aimed his way, did he?

    NASA chief throws shade at SpaceX ahead of Elon Musk's Starship update

    Jim Bridenstine appears to question SpaceX's enthusiasm for NASA's Commercial Crew program aimed at getting astronauts to the ISS.

    BY AMANDA KOOSER
    SEPTEMBER 27, 2019 4:04 PM PDT

    NASA Administrator Jim Bridenstine is looking forward to SpaceX and Elon Musk's big Starship update on Saturday. Sort of.

    Bridenstine dropped an unexpected statement on Twitter on Friday, writing, "I am looking forward to the SpaceX announcement tomorrow. In the meantime, Commercial Crew is years behind schedule. NASA expects to see the same level of enthusiasm focused on the investments of the American taxpayer. It's time to deliver."

  16. #2476
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    He didn't happen to mention the little nudge that Jim Bridenstine aimed his way, did he?
    He was asked about it during Q&A (incidentally, all the interesting stuff was discussed during Q&A, the main speech was old material). He said 95% of SpaceX spending is directed to Falcon 9 and related.
    Last edited by Van Rijn; 2019-Sep-29 at 11:46 PM.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  17. #2477
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    Also, wasn't that comment from Bridenstine a bit rich? They have already sent a crew dragon to the ISS and back, and if it weren't for one puny kaboom they'd be sending crew as we speak. Meanwhile, how's the timeline of NASA's own launch effort doing? But I guess Bridenstine might have an interest in showing that he feels the mood of those who are in charge and are questioning the timeframe of a commercial moon effort.

    Anyway, SpaceX. Having people in front of the Starship prototype really helped giving a sense of scale of the beast. Also interesting to note how the first prototype is 200t while they are aiming for 120 tons in the final design. Undesigning as Musk stated.

    Some timeframes and cost estimates will require a Musk correction factor (Bridenstine's comment isn't entirely pulled out of thin air...) but it sounds like interesting times are ahead. Just get Crew Dragon going in the meantime. :-)
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  18. #2478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    Also, wasn't that comment from Bridenstine a bit rich? They have already sent a crew dragon to the ISS and back, and if it weren't for one puny kaboom they'd be sending crew as we speak. Meanwhile, how's the timeline of NASA's own launch effort doing? But I guess Bridenstine might have an interest in showing that he feels the mood of those who are in charge and are questioning the timeframe of a commercial moon effort.

    Anyway, SpaceX. Having people in front of the Starship prototype really helped giving a sense of scale of the beast. Also interesting to note how the first prototype is 200t while they are aiming for 120 tons in the final design. Undesigning as Musk stated.

    Some timeframes and cost estimates will require a Musk correction factor (Bridenstine's comment isn't entirely pulled out of thin air...) but it sounds like interesting times are ahead. Just get Crew Dragon going in the meantime. :-)
    Yeah, I watched Scott Manley’s summary video and apparently the Twitterverse got on Bridenstine’s case, in effect saying “aren’t ALL of your rockets late?”

  19. #2479
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    Starship webpage

    https://www.spacex.com/starship

    Video
    https://youtu.be/wzFQJUzoUvM

    Chomper...lives!! (Satellite deployer; animgif at the webpage's Satellites menu)

    1569859964754.jpg

    Yes, it's very Bond-ian (Bird One, 'You Only Live Twice') - so now all he needs is a volcano launch pad

  20. #2480
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    Not sure if Space:1999 or Battlestar Galactica.

    Which reminds me that Starship did become ever so slightly less fifties with the 2 flap redesign.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  21. #2481
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    Not sure if Space:1999 or Battlestar Galactica.

    Which reminds me that Starship did become ever so slightly less fifties with the 2 flap redesign.
    We'll see how long it lasts. Musk tweeted he's not 100% bought into it and it may change back in Mk3 & Mk4. We'll see how the test flight goes.

  22. #2482
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    I don't think the "bought into" part was the two skydiver flaps per se, but the question whether it was lighter or not to (partially) split the landing leg functionality from the flap functionality. This discussion obviously does have interference with a possible return to three fins/flaps, as you can't stand on two legs. Well, you can, but a rocket can't.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  23. #2483
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    Starship webpage

    https://www.spacex.com/starship

    Video
    https://youtu.be/wzFQJUzoUvM

    Chomper...lives!! (Satellite deployer; animgif at the webpage's Satellites menu)

    1569859964754.jpg

    Yes, it's very Bond-ian (Bird One, 'You Only Live Twice') - so now all he needs is a volcano launch pad
    The liftoff thrust on the booster produces thrust equivalent of ~42 000 jets.
    Made me wonder how they avoided listing the height in football fields.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  24. #2484
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    The "football fields" unit is a convenient comparison where people live, eat, and sleep (US) football. Nowhere is more that than Texas.

    Raptor is inexpensive. Most large engines cost in the $tens of millions...

    Elon Musk ✓ @elonmusk
    Raptor cost is tracking to well under $1M for V1.0. Goal is <$250k for V2.0 is a 250 ton thrust-optimized engine, ie <$1000/ton
    ||
    It's all the "secondary" structure that concerns me, not engines & primary airframe

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1179107539352313856

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1179107730876796928

  25. #2485
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    Everyday Astronaut did a sweet interview with Musk. Length and nerdiness levels unseen on commercial television. It's supposed to be source material to cut into his explanation on aerospikes, but the interview stands on its own if you have a grasp of what an aerospike is. The interview shows a much more at ease Musk, especially in the conversation after the interview is supposedly done. Some extra details on Starship are given, some crumbs on how to get the weight down.

    I think, when I'm old and grey, when people want to demonstrate the real Musk, they'll refer to this (kind of) interview. And he demonstrates beyond a doubt (for those who still couldn't believe he was lead engineer at SpaceX) his technological knowledge in multiple fields.

    See YouTube, Everyday Astronaut channel. 17 minutes interview. The mutual respect between these two (Tim has shown an impressive technical mind, reverse-engineering a lot of Starship based on very limited input) and their love for the subjects oozes from your screen. They're buddies at the end of it.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  26. #2486
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    I note that Elon projected a starship in orbit within /by six months.
    We'll see if that holds.
    Last edited by bknight; 2019-Oct-02 at 02:28 AM. Reason: Spelling correction

  27. #2487
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    In the absesnse of NASA's technocracy the EDT (Elon Time Distorion) is usually about 50%. There's also how long it'll take to build the new launch pad platforms at Boca Chica and LC-39A. Those parts were pre-built and have been in storage, and the earthmoving, pile-driving and concrete pours have already begun.

    Starship/Super Heavy will launch off an elevated platform with an actively chilled flame diverter instead of a trench. This can go up very quickly, and the parts have arrived at both sites.

    Starship Mk1's modules have been de-mated. Easier to work on the upper fins, actuators, header tanks, plumbing, etc. on the ground.
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2019-Oct-01 at 10:32 PM.

  28. #2488
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    Starship Mk1's modules have been de-mated. Easier to work on the upper fins, actuators, header tanks, plumbing, etc. on the ground.
    I always get kind of annoyed when the design/build team has to temporarily put something together for a scheduled dog-and-pony show. It slows down the overall program.

    I find myself wondering how they're planning to assemble the SuperHeavy, then the Starship, on top of that launch platform.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  29. #2489
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    The dog and pony show is common in not only aerospace but the auto industry, and in Silly Valley marketing.

  30. #2490
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    The dog and pony show is common in not only aerospace but the auto industry, and in Silly Valley marketing.
    Common in a lot of industries.
    Iwish them well whatever the timing.

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