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Not clear yet if it was a leg failure or if it was engines not working perfectly and landing too hard or a combination. I'm guessing the landing ruptured a methane line, thus the fire after, and eventually an explosion.Originally Posted by cjameshuff
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Nicolas's sig:
Landing, on the other hand, is tricky. But they're getting closer.With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.
Trivial stuff that makes me happy: I managed to tune in to a live stream a few minutes before ignition. Twice.
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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"It will be safe enough for human transport by 2023 -- it's looking very promising," Musk said [quoting from earlier post about dearMoon voyage].
Whatever you say, Mr. Musk.
Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom
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Congratulations to SpaceX for a successful launch and landing.
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Upon closer examination of a replay, it landed 3 times! The first landing was quite hard and it visibly bounced. Then it exploded and came down a third time.
With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.
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I suspect the fire right under the fuel tank was boiling off methane faster than it could vent, hence the delayed explosion. The hard landing could just mean they need to do some software tuning.
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Must've been after SpaceX broadcast ended. I didn't see the explosion. Looks like a simple fix.
Last edited by bknight; 2021-Mar-04 at 04:32 AM.
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Here is a short (approx. 1 minute) edited video with the later event:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzhP3Q5fku8
I've seen some joke comments. A couple: One said, "Wow! This is the fastest relaunch in history!" Another said, "This is a RUL (Rapid Unplanned Launch)."
Well, it does seem like a real and serious improvement, but it still seems to be landing hard. Hopefully they can resolve that for the next one. Regarding the SpaceX video, I was very impressed by the closeups and camera angles. Amazing to watch it coming down. I expect there will be some CGI claims from usual suspects.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?
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Nah,
I call it "pulling a Grammatica," which means the next one is Leon Lett- LOOK OUT! I want Eli Gold for color on these famous fumbles. Get Saban to give a speech and it will be Starr-ship.
Last edited by publiusr; 2021-Mar-04 at 05:26 AM.
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A very good attempt but those first 5 or 6 seconds of footage of the descent are amazing - you could (almost) be forgiven for thinking that it is CGI.
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When I was reading about it, I came across for the first time (I'm sure everyone else knows it well...) the expression "sudden unscheduled disassembly." That's pretty funny.
As above, so below
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I’ve always heard/read it as “RUD” or “Rapid Unplanned Disassembly” which is the basis for the joke I mentioned above, “Rapid Unplanned Launch.” Yes, it is pretty funny the first time you encounter it. I *think* I first saw it in a book on the early days of rocket development, the name of which escapes me at the moment, but I read it quite some time ago.
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?
The Leif Ericson Cruiser
Banned
Maybe this is crazy talk-but...how about blow out vents to stop a BLEVE?
CATO was all the rage before RUD.
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Some of the v1.0 legs didn't latch, so it came down in the skirt. The impact knocked and something came loose, so the fire and later boomski.
SN-11 rolls out soon, with slightly improved legs. SN-15+ are expected to have new legs. Also new alloys, etc.
SN-12, 13, & 14 are cancelled.
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Sorry if this has been covered during the many pages of this thread: when it is in the bellyflopped descent stage, is it just falling or does it spend some time flying on its flaps ?
sicut vis videre esto
When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
Originally Posted by Ken G
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It is mostly vertical falling in these tests; lift generated by the flaps is used mainly for attitude stabilisation. Think of it as a skydiver using his arms and legs to maintain position while his parachute is not yet deployed.
I don't know exactly how much range capability you'd get with the flaps if it came in from orbit, but apparently at least on paper enough to get yourself above a landing pad after the randomness of upper atmospheric return. It would have a poor glide ratio, but it was never meant to be a craft to glide significant horizontal distances.
With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.
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Thanks for that, it was just that lift flying would be greater than the drag of falling. Even with a poor glide angle it could for example spiral down or fly in like the shuttle but with a final flip to land vertically. Both of course save on rocket fuel. I suppose coming home from high speed, it can turn right round and decelerate on engines, flying in backwards in that case.
sicut vis videre esto
When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
Originally Posted by Ken G
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Nah, it was obviously just the launch played back in reverse.
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A SpaceX Falcon 9 launched a new set of Starlink satellites and landed the booster March 4, two and a half weeks after the landing failed on the previous launch.
https://spacenews.com/falcon-9-launc...lands-booster/
Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom
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Upon further thinking, they are also planning to use Starship for point-to-point flight on earth. But it was my understanding that this would be mosty a ballistic flight, not aerodynamic. Of course, if you already have a lot of speed then even tiny "wings" like Starship has allow for quite some aerodynamic manoeuvrability.
With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.
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Indeed, missiles use small fins to achieve high g turning, but for Earth to Earth flights, the issue of fuel saving ( and safety back up procedures ) could use lift to reduce speed If the flaps have some range of movement. You could imagine the hull vertical, moving sideways, with the flaps giving lift and attitude control to maximise drag while falling at speed. It’s a whole new way of point to point travel. Just using engines is neat but wastes fuel. Then what happens if motors won’t start? Maybe you could fly to a water touch down? That probability of one out of three engines starting becomes rather critical! As it is for all recovery strategy.
sicut vis videre esto
When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
Originally Posted by Ken G
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Actually for horizontal travel the use of engine plus wing lift makes sense if you want a soft landing. V2 style baliistics make for hard landings! And what level of reliability do you accept on restart to achieve any kind of survivable landing?
Last edited by profloater; 2021-Mar-04 at 01:02 PM.
sicut vis videre esto
When we realize that patterns don't exist in the universe, they are a template that we hold to the universe to make sense of it, it all makes a lot more sense.
Originally Posted by Ken G
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Elon Musk Announces Plans To Start Texas City Called "Starbase".
https://hypebeast.com/2021/3/elon-mu...as-spacex-info
Do good work. —Virgil Ivan "Gus" Grissom
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Sounds similar to Russia’s Star City, but a tad more public: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_City,_Russia
"The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." — Abraham Lincoln
I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?
The Leif Ericson Cruiser
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Given the "Elon Musk = ultrarich supervillain" meme, I give it 3 days max before somebody brings a can of paint and turns the sign into "Stark City".
With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.
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SpaceX's Principal Integration Engineer/webcaster "Big John" Insprucker refers to the belly flop a the "Adama Maneuver" and Garrett Reisman seconded it. Guess that makes it official#SoSayWeAll #BSG
John Insprucker @jinsprucker
Mar 4, 2021
Exciting day & not over! #10 came through - flew to 10km, did the Adama maneuver, got the data we needed, flipped and landed! Time for #11...Geronimo! And more to come - I'm working Falcon 9 launch tonight. But no webcast for me, I've done mine today (abort, recycle, launch).
|
Garrett Reisman ✓ @astro_g_dogg
Love that you’re calling it the Adama Maneuver, John! Go Starship! Go SpaceX!
https://twitter.com/jinsprucker/stat...50152080461827
https://twitter.com/astro_g_dogg/sta...92762447327237
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Great video -- as usual! -- by Scot Manley on the Starship flight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CF9mdMI1qxM
Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.
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Ah, I see the issue. SN10 is afraid of heights. Came down with weak knees. Good thing SN15 will have a new leg design instead of these placeholders.
With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.
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"Elon time"!!! Snicker
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The flaps can adjust pitch, yaw, and roll. and to a degree fore and aft position. Just don't think of them as traditional airfoils because they have no lift
producing profilee - flat as a board.
https://youtu.be/fRdoP1sJP_s
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