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Thread: SpaceX

  1. #4951
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    Maybe I don;t understand your point but how would that be different or more impactful than any other data breach involving millions of accounts? No system is secure and the best us dumb humans can do is keep working to improve the security of these complex networks. At least there is significant funding to bolster the system.
    There is no difference, but the glossy headlines look good until the hackers come out of wherever they live to get into the system.

  2. #4952
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    Starship Orbital Test Flight

    NET June 20th, 2021

    On March 16, 2021 Elon Musk expressed the goal of performing a Starship orbital test flight in July, 2021.

    Rob Dickinson @Rjdlandscapes
    Mar 16, 2021
    Replying to @elonmusk @Erdayastronaut and @SpaceX
    Crazy! Full stack flight July?
    |
    Elon Musk ✓ @elonmusk
    That’s our goal

    https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1371995012825763842

    On November 20, 2020 SpaceX and NASA entered into an agreement for tracking Starship during re-entry,

    https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/n...s-capabilities

    SpaceX will partner with NASA’s Langley Research Center in Hampton, Virginia, to capture imagery and thermal measurements of its Starship vehicle during orbital re-entry over the Pacific Ocean. With the data, the company plans to advance a reusable thermal protection system, which protects the vehicle from aerodynamic heating, for missions returning from low-Earth orbit, the Moon, and Mars.
    Now there's an FCC filing for the Starship orbital test flight (PDF)

    https://fcc.report/ELS/Space-Explora...748-EX-ST-2021

    FCC exhibit

    https://apps.fcc.gov/els/GetAtt.html?id=273481&x=

    Flight Profile

    The Starship Orbital test flight will originate from Starbase, TX. The Booster stage will separate approximately 170 seconds into flight. The Booster will then perform a partial return and land in the Gulf of Mexico approximately 20 miles from the shore. The Orbital Starship will continue on flying between the Florida Straits. It will achieve orbit until performing a powered, targeted landing approximately 100km (~62 miles) off the northwest coast of Kauai in a soft ocean landing.

    Objectives

    SpaceX intends to collect as much data as possible during flight to quantify entry dynamics and better understand what the vehicle experiences in a flight regime that is extremely difficult to accurately predict or replicate computationally. This data will anchor any changes in vehicle design or CONOPs after the first flight and build better models for us to use in our internal simulations
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2021-May-14 at 07:33 AM.

  3. #4953
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    Well, that’s certainly ambitious. I thought they would do a series of booster tests before they jumped to that.

    "The problem with quotes on the Internet is that it is hard to verify their authenticity." Abraham Lincoln

    I say there is an invisible elf in my backyard. How do you prove that I am wrong?

    The Leif Ericson Cruiser

  4. #4954
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Well, that’s certainly ambitious. I thought they would do a series of booster tests before they jumped to that.
    SpaceX has also scored a $53M NASA contract to demonstrate in-orbit propellant transfer...

    SpaceX ✓ @SpaceX
    NASA has selected Starship for a propellant transfer demonstration! Combining Starship’s rapid reusability with orbital refilling is critical to economically transporting large numbers of crew and cargo to the Moon and Mars https://t.co/a3EZIUoXR7 https://t.co/0YRkVHBrDI

    https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1316417597257129985

  5. #4955
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    If they're going to soft land into the ocean in the first orbital flight, is there any plan of recovering booster and Starship?
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  6. #4956
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    Meanwhile, SN15 flight recap from SpaceX itself, including new footage. The feet latching mechanism seems to have worked flawlessly. As it's a temporary design that is irrelevant in the long-term, but very welcome now.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CZTLogln34
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  7. #4957
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    SpaceX has also scored a $53M NASA contract to demonstrate in-orbit propellant transfer...

    SpaceX ✓ @SpaceX
    NASA has selected Starship for a propellant transfer demonstration! Combining Starship’s rapid reusability with orbital refilling is critical to economically transporting large numbers of crew and cargo to the Moon and Mars https://t.co/a3EZIUoXR7 https://t.co/0YRkVHBrDI

    https://twitter.com/SpaceX/status/1316417597257129985
    In theory transfer should be ok, in practice it may be a bit challenging. But I haven't seen the details in the mechanism for transfer.

  8. #4958
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    In theory transfer should be ok, in practice it may be a bit challenging. But I haven't seen the details in the mechanism for transfer.
    Pre-launch the fuelling pipes in the skirt of Starship receive CH4 & LOX through Super Heavy - no prop umbilicals. These are recycled for refuelling ops.

    For refuelling the target ship is rolled to properly align with the Tanker's fill pipes, then they "dock." The fittings connect, valves open, then an ullage burn is done by Tanker. The fractional-G of acceleration pushes the props from the Tanker through the connected fill pipes to the target vehicle. After filling the valves close, pipes disconnect, then they undock.

    NASA HLS docs indicate SpaceX will use Tanker and a Storage (cough-Depot-cough) Starships. Tankers fill the Storage vehicle first, then the mission Starship is launched and refuelled by Storage in one docking instead of several. Once fuelling is completed off it goes.

    NASA and SpaceX have been working on the fittings under two contracts I'm aware of, and SpaceX is to do some sort of in-orbit demo in 2022-2023. As we know, they already know how to auto-dock.
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2021-May-15 at 09:26 AM.

  9. #4959
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    June seems more than ambitious for an orbital flight, but if this is strictly a test article not intended to land then maybe it is possible, fingers crossed.

  10. #4960
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    Pre-launch the fuelling pipes in the skirt of Starship receive CH4 & LOX through Super Heavy - no prop umbilicals. These are recycled for refuelling ops.

    For refuelling the target ship is rolled to properly align with the Tanker's fill pipes, then they "dock." The fittings connect, valves open, then an ullage burn is done by Tanker. The fractional-G of acceleration pushes the props from the Tanker through the connected fill pipes to the target vehicle. After filling the valves close, pipes disconnect, then they undock.

    NASA HLS docs indicate SpaceX will use Tanker and a Storage (cough-Depot-cough) Starships. Tankers fill the Storage vehicle first, then the mission Starship is launched and refuelled by Storage in one docking instead of several. Once fuelling is completed off it goes.

    NASA and SpaceX have been working on the fittings under two contracts I'm aware of, and SpaceX is to do some sort of in-orbit demo in 2022-2023. As we know, they already know how to auto-dock.
    The first stage of the Super Heavy fills the Starship on the pad?
    That refueling scenario sound reasonable.

  11. #4961
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    The first stage of the Super Heavy fills the Starship on the pad?
    That refueling scenario sound reasonable.
    Yeah, one set of connections/plumbing for all propellant transfer, whether in orbit or on the ground.

    The thrusters will be used to settle propellant, but I doubt they'd get it transferred in a reasonable time. I expect they'll vent the receiving tank to both chill the propellant and allow ullage pressure in the source tank to push it over. The vented gas itself could be used to provide some of the thrust for settling the propellant, maybe even through the same thrusters.

  12. #4962
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    June seems more than ambitious for an orbital flight, but if this is strictly a test article not intended to land then maybe it is possible, fingers crossed.
    It appears they didn't loose heat tiles in the 10km tests, and they can apply them rapidly. So essentially it's about building another test starship and covering it with tiles.

    It will be a test article and it will "land", but it will be a notional landing on (or very shortly thereafter, in) the sea.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  13. #4963
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    Yeah, one set of connections/plumbing for all propellant transfer, whether in orbit or on the ground.

    The thrusters will be used to settle propellant, but I doubt they'd get it transferred in a reasonable time. I expect they'll vent the receiving tank to both chill the propellant and allow ullage pressure in the source tank to push it over. The vented gas itself could be used to provide some of the thrust for settling the propellant, maybe even through the same thrusters.
    What is the ground pressures of the fuel and oxidizer of Starship?

  14. #4964
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    What is the ground pressures of the fuel and oxidizer of Starship?
    The same as flight pressure, considering it's brought to flight pressure on the ground...around 6 bar, I think. Or do you mean something else?

  15. #4965
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    Starlink 26

    ~30 min to stream...

    https://youtu.be/tdgg_qwj-hI

  16. #4966
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    I just watched today's launch, which was great as usual. Best landing shot from the rocket ever.
    But I have a question: The payload fairing, before launch, looked like it was transparent at the tip. Is that correct? Have they done that before?
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  17. #4967
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    Starlink 26

    ~30 min to stream...

    https://youtu.be/tdgg_qwj-hI
    Great landing video.

  18. #4968
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    The same as flight pressure, considering it's brought to flight pressure on the ground...around 6 bar, I think. Or do you mean something else?
    Flight pressure of 87 psi. Seems low to me but that is why I asked. I would assume that the vehicle is pressured to that amount right before launch.
    Last edited by bknight; 2021-May-16 at 12:04 AM.

  19. #4969
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjameshuff View Post
    The same as flight pressure, considering it's brought to flight pressure on the ground...around 6 bar, I think. Or do you mean something else?
    Flight pressure of 87 psi. Seems low to me but that is why I asked. I would assume that the vehicle is pressured to that amount right before launch.


    ETA Sorry for the double post, not sure what happened.

  20. #4970
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    I just watched today's launch, which was great as usual. Best landing shot from the rocket ever.

    But I have a question: The payload fairing, before launch, looked like it was transparent at the tip. Is that correct? Have they done that before?
    It's a shiny metal thermal shield, reflecting the sky and part of the tower. When they started recovering fairings that area was getting pretty cooked.

    F9 fairing heat shield-1280.jpg

    2019 version
    EAVwq-QXUAAxGW6.jpg

    This video shows the plasma produced by fairing re-entry...

    https://youtu.be/kfm_ytIcuPk
    Last edited by docmordrid; 2021-May-16 at 02:13 AM.

  21. #4971
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    Quote Originally Posted by bknight View Post
    Flight pressure of 87 psi. Seems low to me but that is why I asked. I would assume that the vehicle is pressured to that amount right before launch.
    It has to be under some degree of pressure to support itself while loaded with propellant, we saw what happens when that isn't done with an earlier prototype. Maybe it'll be held at a lower pressure until just before launch, maybe it'll be held at flight pressure. I don't think we have a good indication even of what they're doing with their prototype testing, and their operational flights are likely to make some changes.

  22. #4972
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    What i love is the way these rockets are building up so much history. This booster flew Demo-2 and currently hold the record for most satellites in a single launch. All the boosters in the fleet would be worthy of a place in a museum when SpaceX finally retires them.

  23. #4973
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    What i love is the way these rockets are building up so much history. This booster flew Demo-2 and currently hold the record for most satellites in a single launch. All the boosters in the fleet would be worthy of a place in a museum when SpaceX finally retires them.
    Good point Garrison. Is there an updated link to the number of flights each SpaceX first stage booster rocket has achieved?

    There was a chart in an article produced a few years ago exploring the metric of the cost ($) to launch 1 kg to low earth orbit. The chart, which puts cost per kg on the vertical axis and no of flights per Falcon rocket on the horizontal axis, can be found towards the end of this article.

    It illustrates the importance of how often rocket stages are reused to the supply side cost of leaving the earth's gravity well. And so to delivering affordable space exploration.

    That's why these experimental rockets would be worthy of a place in a museum.

  24. #4974
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    Quote Originally Posted by docmordrid View Post
    It's a shiny metal thermal shield, reflecting the sky and part of the tower. When they started recovering fairings that area was getting pretty cooked.

    F9 fairing heat shield-1280.jpg

    2019 version
    EAVwq-QXUAAxGW6.jpg

    This video shows the plasma produced by fairing re-entry...

    https://youtu.be/kfm_ytIcuPk
    Thanks! The first picture is the view that had me thinking it might be clear but the second shows it really well.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  25. #4975
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    Quote Originally Posted by DavidLondon View Post
    Is there an updated link to the number of flights each SpaceX first stage booster rocket has achieved?
    Wikipedia has a List of Flacon 9 first-stage boosters which seems to be up to date and is quite fascinating if you haven't seen it before.

    I'm sure SpaceX enthusiasts will know all this already. But for those less familiar....

    B1051 currently tops the list having achieved its tenth flight on 9th May. 2021 It is also featured in the more exclusive list of Notable Boosters at the bottom of the page, which presumably make up the strongest candidates for a museum and which gives more detail of the booster's history.

    Booster 1051
    B1051 is the sixth Falcon 9 Block 5 booster built. It first flew on March 2, 2019, on the DM-1 mission. It then flew its second mission out of Vandenberg AFB launching the Radarsat constellation. It then flew 4 Starlink missions and launched SXM-7, totaling 5 flights in 2020 alone, and becoming the first Falcon 9 to launch a commercial payload on its 7th flight. On May 9, 2021, B1051 became the first booster to launch and land successfully ten times and is the current Falcon re-use leader.[161]
    Boosters I thought looked especially notable in the list of notable boosters include:
    - B1021 which was the first booster to be re-flown,
    - B1046 which was the first Block 5 Falcon 9, the final version of the SpaceX first stage. Its 4th and last Mission launched a Crew Dragon up to the point of max dynamic pressure,
    - B1049 is the oldest booster still on active duty. Its 9th flight carried 60 starlink sats on 4th May 2021.
    - B1058 was first launched from the Apollo 11 launch site and carried the first crewed orbital spaceflight to the ISS from the US since the Space Shuttle. It was the first Falcon 9 booster to feature NASA's 'worm logo'. It has successfully flown 8 times, most recently yesterday, 15th May.
    - B1061 was the first booster to be reused on a crewed flight. It flew Crew-1 to ISS in November and then Crew-2 last month.

    Some strong museum contenders in this list! So do any avid SpaceX watchers have particular favourites for some reason? It would be good to know.

  26. #4976
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    All the above deserve to be in a SpaceX museum.

    Two Falcon 9's are already on display

    B1019: SpaceX HQ Hawthorne, CA. First landed booster (Orbcomm). Link...

    B1035: Space Center Houston. First Flight Proven booster used by NASA Link...

    ----------

    We've seen Starbase robo-dawg Zeus, and here is is buddy Apollo (different sensors)

    https://youtu.be/2wuqnoKeT0o

  27. #4977
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    Scott Manley has produced a nicely-done 55-second video explaining the proposed Starship suborbital flight using the Super Booster.

    https://youtu.be/EV9A4T6NUAQ

  28. #4978
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    There was talk of this flight happening in june earlier, but now it seems like it will be later? Or I'm missing some info.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

  29. #4979
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nicolas View Post
    There was talk of this flight happening in june earlier, but now it seems like it will be later? Or I'm missing some info.
    Musk mentioned July, the FCC permit starts June 20 and runs to December 20. All else is conjecture.

  30. #4980
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    Well I'm going with what Musk says here. Late september it is.
    With sufficient thrust, water towers fly just fine.

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