Page 2 of 7 FirstFirst 1234 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 209

Thread: Will space debris make space exploration impossible

  1. #31
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Came across this article and bingo the UN has one based on the US guideline. The main player against it's adoption is - you guessed it - USA.
    Ok; call it a US-Centric view if you must, but if it's as simple as what they say, I don't blame them for not adopting it.
    The article 9 thing is confusing to me, and I don't see a problem with a redundant law, but I'm sure there's some legal aspect that I am unaware of.

    What I do see as a problem is the Stratcom requirement.
    Sure; there are strategic things that someone can say are unfair practices to retain superiority. I wouldn't blame them for saying it. But; I'm not looking at that aspect even though I selfishly think military assets are to be kept internal.

    But (and please correct me if I'm wrong):
    I see it as a freebie to the world on our dime. Didn't the same thing happen with GPS? We developed it, we launched it, we maintain it. Do we get any world return from it?
    Other nations are developing their own GPS, so couldn't we keep our own tracking once other nations see the advantage of tracking their own?

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    But (and please correct me if I'm wrong):
    I see it as a freebie to the world on our dime. Didn't the same thing happen with GPS? We developed it, we launched it, we maintain it. Do we get any world return from it?
    Other nations are developing their own GPS, so couldn't we keep our own tracking once other nations see the advantage of tracking their own?
    The freebie is the less accurate system that is available to the general world public. The more accurate one is for the US defense needs. The US wants to keep that. India had initially agreed to join the European version of the GPS but withdrew when they found out the the military version would not be available to them. They are now setting up their own regional system.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    Looks like space derbies are getting to be a pain in the !!!

    http://www.universetoday.com/111090/...t/#more-111090

    Yesterday, the European Space Agency disclosed a serious problem early in the Sentinel-1A mission, which lifted off April 3 on a mission to observe the Earth. The spacecraft — which reportedly cost 280 million Euros ($384 million) to launch — came close to a collision in orbit.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The freebie is the less accurate system that is available to the general world public...
    Yes; but still a freebie. Besides, the signals aren't that much different.
    But; since that's not our topic and I only used it as an example, I won't expand on that.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Looks like space derbies are getting to be a pain in the !!!
    You mean this kind of space derby?

    I wonder if they moved up the process too hastily and missed the calculations of ACRIMSAT's orbit. I'm sure it didn't come out of nowhere or suddenly change course before the launch.
    One might think that after being able to bring the launch date forward from 15 to 3 April (since when do launch dates come forward?), that after successfully achieving the shortest launch campaign in ESA’s history, after having executed the pre-launch simulations in the shortest time ever

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    The French have made it into law

    http://www.spacenews.com/article/lau...or-arianespace

    A new French space law designed to reduce orbital debris and, especially, to prevent liability from rocket upper stages re-entering the atmosphere and causing injury or property damage, risks posing problems for commercial launch services provider Arianespace of France.
    “The IADC members have agreed that if there is a greater than 10 to the minus 4 [1 in 10,000] chance of a stage re-entering — and this is the case for all large rocket upper stages — then it should be ordered on a controlled re-entry. The United Nations has adopted similar guidelines, as has ISO.”

    ISO, or the International Organization for Standardization, in 2011 adopted ISO 24113 that makes similar recommendations.
    For now, the U.S. Federal Aviation Administration is studying the issues of debris and upper-stage re-entry risk but does not have a policy mandating controlled deorbiting of large upper stages for U.S. vehicles, said Paul Eckert, manager for budget, policy and international affairs at the FAA’s Office of Commercial Space Transportation.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    Interesting video on DARPA's Phoenix Program

    http://www.spacenews.com/video/video...hoenix-program

    this video shows how it was originally conceived to work servicing and salvaging assets in orbit

  8. #38
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11,594
    If I had to guess, X-37 probably got up close and personal with some assets already.

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    How did I miss this. The US is working on it -

    http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1...debris-cascade

    NASA is preparing to take the next logical step after in-flight refueling between two aircraft robotic refueling of orbiting satellites. This could extend the lifetime of many satellites indefinitely, and could play a very important role in preventing a Gravity-like scenario, where fragments of a single satellite cause a cascade of debris that destroys almost every satellite in Earth orbit.

  10. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11,594
    That's funny--in that I see such a Rube Goldberg refueling attempt as actually leading to a Gravity like scenario, rather than preventing it.

    In my minds eye, I can see a Parmitano type fluid leak--only with hypergolics beading up all over, reacting with something--and you get a big mess all over LEO.

  11. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Nowhere (middle)
    Posts
    37,120
    Quote Originally Posted by publiusr View Post
    That's funny--in that I see such a Rube Goldberg refueling attempt as actually leading to a Gravity like scenario, rather than preventing it.
    The same is true of pretty much every orbital rendezvous maneuver.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  12. #42
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11,594
    No liquid transfer though, except in bags by hand.

    A refueling event--that's different. We've only ever done that on the ground with umbilicals. We use ullage motors to seat propellants for ease of use:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ullage_motor

    I'm not saying we wil never have fluid transfer at a larger scale, but I might like to have someone watching the pump for a few times at first.

    If the fluid transfer is on the strong side, it may try to push the two bodies apart, acting as thrust...

  13. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    3,163
    Both Progress and ATV manage fluid transfer for ISS refueling - as best I can tell, there are connectors in the docking rings so the alignment and its maintenance are taken care of by the whole docking structures. Of course, this gets harder to manage if the target vehicle wasn't built with this in mind.

  14. #44
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    US congress has a request from FAA to seek authority to tackle orbiting debris

    http://www.theguardian.com/science/2...avity-congress

    Space experts testifying on Friday at a US House of Representatives hearing entitled "Space Traffic Management: How to Prevent a Real Life Gravity" warned that space activities – including both human travel and the dependable operation of satellites – will become increasingly dangerous if new rules are not put in place to control debris.

    Foremost on the panel’s agenda was a request by the Federal Aviation Administration for additional authority over commercial satellite operators, including the authority to order evasive action to avoid collisions. No US agency currently holds such authority, and it is unclear what agency could hold an authority that would apply worldwide.

  15. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    China is taking steps to minimize the impact of space debris on exploration. They have certainly taken note of all the negative feed back from their 2007 test and are working hard to reverse it where possible.

    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Ch...ebris_999.html

    China has made remarkable progress in controlling and reducing the impact of space debris on exploration and will strengthen cooperation with other nations, according to a senior official. "China has allocated a considerable amount of resources in research and development for the detection, protection and mitigation of space debris," said Xu Dazhe, head of the China National Space Administration.

  16. #46
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    They have certainly taken note of all the negative feed back from their 2007 test...
    Possibly, but the article doesn't say it.
    I'm glad to hear they are taking space junk seriously. Of course, it seems like a lot of it is in self-preservation of their own program, but that's to be expected.

    It's another good sign that their space efforts are maturing.

    I would also assume this is just a translation issue or just a reporter not knowing what the details are...
    cutting-edge technologies were adopted to prevent Long March rocket parts from exploding in space after they sent satellites or spacecraft into orbit
    I hate to think that without cutting-edge technology, their spent rockets would just blow up.

  17. #47
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    US military hopes to identify space debris before it becomes a threat to the Earth (see article below). I have posted an article above where China is trying to do something and also read Japan had plans to remove space debris. I am sure Russia and Europe also have their plans.

    Is this not an ideal project to have an international project? After all it will be safeguarding all their space assets.

    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pe..._junk_999.html

  18. #48
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    US military hopes to identify space debris before it becomes a threat to the Earth (see article below).
    That's a replacement system that is more sensitive. The competition has been going on for over 2 years now. It's an example of how long it takes the goverment to get anything done.

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Is this not an ideal project to have an international project? After all it will be safeguarding all their space assets.
    Yes and no. There is a defensive aspect of it. During times of peace and cooperation, the information can be shared as it is now. If any strifes arise, limiting the informoration may give a strategic advantage. When you have a dual purpose situation like this, it's hard to determine how to share the price and the assets.

  19. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    That is reason I think it should be an international project. We should be keeping space assets for peaceful purposes only but then that will dream world.

  20. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    US military hopes to identify space debris before it becomes a threat to the Earth (see article below). I have posted an article above where China is trying to do something and also read Japan had plans to remove space debris. I am sure Russia and Europe also have their plans.

    Is this not an ideal project to have an international project? After all it will be safeguarding all their space assets.

    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Pe..._junk_999.html
    Europe does have plans to clean up the space debris

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/h...w/35977650.cms

    A new European mission aims to rendezvous a satellite with hazardous space debris and render it harmless by netting it like fish.

  21. #51
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Europe does have plans to clean up the space debris
    You started this thread almost 3 months ago with a story talking about this plan [e.DeOrbit] which is a plan started over 2 years ago.

  22. #52
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    You started this thread almost 3 months ago with a story talking about this plan [e.DeOrbit] which is a plan started over 2 years ago.
    I did not know that but thanks for the update. Looks like we are in time to pick up the implementation of that plan.

  23. #53
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    You did not know things that you brought up in your own thread?

    What do you mean that we are in time to pick up the implimentation of the plan? There has been no timelines set.

  24. #54
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    You did not know things that you brought up in your own thread?

    What do you mean that we are in time to pick up the implimentation of the plan? There has been no timelines set.
    You are correct, I did come across it and started this thread. Unfortunately I had no recollection of it when I saw the latest report on it and added it again to this thread. My apologies.

    It just seems like there is something of a plan when we have a few countries all working (independently by the sounds of it) on the same problem.

    The other possibility is, "a space weapon in civilian clothing". If one can remove space debris then you could also remove satellites that might be hostile. You could also classify a "space tug" in the same category.

  25. #55
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    N.E.Ohio
    Posts
    22,006
    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    It just seems like there is something of a plan when we have a few countries all working (independently by the sounds of it) on the same problem.
    I guess it depends on your definition of plan. Yes, these countries are working toward a solution, but I don't think there is any plan further than "let's come up with something to help clear orbits".

    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The other possibility is, "a space weapon in civilian clothing". If one can remove space debris then you could also remove satellites that might be hostile.
    I find that highly unlikely. Sure; you can weaponize just about anything, but the need to clear debris is a much higher concern than spending all that time and money to gracefully take down a satellite. If it comes to that, I don't think they would do it so carefully. Other than the obvious ways to destroy one, there are things like jamming and EMPs that can be used if they know enough about them.

  26. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2014
    Location
    Klang, Malaysia
    Posts
    7,582
    Russia has just made operational it's system to track man made objects in space.

    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Ru...acity_999.html

    Okno discovers space objects at night by the sunlight that they reflect. It traces both familiar and newly-tracked space objects. The space control system was created to monitor Earth satellites and other space objects and it keeps the Main Catalogue of Space Objects.

    It is the main element of an integral Russian information system of global monitoring of the situation in space. The joint system also comprises the missile attack warning system and ballistic missile defence and anti-aircraft defence forces and facilities.

  27. #57
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    560
    I'm just a layman, who loves anything related to space. My question to the experts is: If simply left there in orbit, how long will space junk stay there? I'm assuming that eventually, most of it will fall back to Earth and burn up on its own. I know it would depend greatly on the individual orbit that the junk is in, but isn't most of the dangerous stuff in LEO.

  28. #58
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Massachusetts, USA
    Posts
    21,881
    Quote Originally Posted by Trantor View Post
    ... If simply left there in orbit, how long will space junk stay there? ...
    It strongly depends on the height of the perigee. It is my understanding that without boosts, the ISS would be down in a year or less. Higher up, the atmospheric drag is much less. Geosynchronous object will be there for a very long time.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  29. #59
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Posts
    11,594
    Quote Originally Posted by ngc3314 View Post
    Both Progress and ATV manage fluid transfer for ISS refueling - as best I can tell, there are connectors in the docking rings so the alignment and its maintenance are taken care of by the whole docking structures. Of course, this gets harder to manage if the target vehicle wasn't built with this in mind.
    There's the rub. With next generation satellite buses, maybe--but we are seeing a move to all electric designs, so...

  30. #60
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Zadar, Croatia
    Posts
    154
    Will space debris make space exploration impossible
    On the contrary. Space junk could boost development of new kind of spacecrafts which will collect the junk. Very soon it will be needed transport craft which would be very maneuverable in low earth orbit, which would have trunk and ability to collect old sattelites, put them in that trunk and get them back on earth. By developing that kind of craft, and new technologies needed for it we could actually go forward in space exploration.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •