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Thread: China is making headway with cooperation with other countries excluding US.

  1. #31
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    Language is the real obstacle here among the three most space faring countries. Students are going to hate me for saying this, but young people in USA are lacking in languages. An investment in language is an investment in all the sciences.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FarmMarsNow View Post
    Students are going to hate me for saying this, but young people in USA are lacking in languages. An investment in language is an investment in all the sciences.
    I have no issue with saying that, but...
    Quote Originally Posted by FarmMarsNow View Post
    Language is the real obstacle here among the three most space faring countries.
    ... there's a lot of political issues between the 3. Yes; language can be an obstacle (or even different measuring systems), but I don't think this is the case with China. And; after years of cooperating with Russia, look at where things are going.

  3. #33
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    I agree that there are serious political issues.

  4. #34
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    There's a huge, known issue with Chinese aerospace espionage, so I don't see that going anywhere for some time. Russia was much more equal on rocketry technology and in-space experience and they shared some of their technology as well - much more of a two way street than China would be.

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  5. #35
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    Does last night's launch of a Hong Kong satellite by a U.S. company count?

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    Why should that matter?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    Does last night's launch of a Hong Kong satellite by a U.S. company count?
    Unless it's a company owned by the US government, I don't think it is an exception to the "exclusion".
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Unless it's a company owned by the US government, I don't think it is an exception to the "exclusion".
    I was saying it as somewhat tongue-in-cheek.
    While goverments are doing the "big" projects. I think it shows that commercial space cooperation is truly international.

  9. #39
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    China puts Polish satellite BRITE-PL-2, also known as “Heweliusz” into orbit.

    http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2014/...-2-brite-pl-2/

    The BRITE-Poland satellites:

    The first scientific satellites to explore the stars that are brighter and hotter than the Sun were developed in Poland during between 2010 and 2012. The project will will be helpful in understanding the internal structure of the biggest stars in our galaxy.

    Star oscillation will be investigated with the help of BRITE satellite constellations, designed within the Bright Target Explorer (BRITE) project and developed as the Canadian-Austrian-Polish cooperation.

  10. #40
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    A multinational group buys 10kg of space on a mission. That sounds more like selling a service than government cooperation.
    If that's government cooperation, then my Hong Kong satellite comment isn't too far off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    A multinational group buys 10kg of space on a mission. That sounds more like selling a service than government cooperation.
    If that's government cooperation, then my Hong Kong satellite comment isn't too far off.
    True but An American company can not advantage of the sort of rates the Chinese are offering.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    True but An American company can not advantage of the sort of rates the Chinese are offering.
    What is your cost comparison?
    What is a LM4 cost per kg? What are other companies cost per kg?
    What international trade agreements and governmental monetary systems affect this?

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    What is your cost comparison?
    What is a LM4 cost per kg? What are other companies cost per kg?
    What international trade agreements and governmental monetary systems affect this?
    There is an American embargo on American companies from using Chinese launch facilities. - They used too until one of the launches failed. In the subsequent investigation into the launch failure (in which the American company participated) the US government thought, US technology was being transferred to the Chinese. The reason for the embargo.

  14. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Unless it's a company owned by the US government, I don't think it is an exception to the "exclusion".
    There are a lot of restrictions on U.S. aerospace companies for ITAR compliance, especially in regards to rocket and satellite technology. I don't know the details, but there are rules on who can be hired, who rockets (or related equipment) can be sold to, etc.

    Incidentally, I'm just saying this as a general statement on the subject . . . I'm not going to make any value judgments here about the espionage, or comparisons to U.S. espionage, etc. but there isn't much doubt that U.S. aerospace firms have been a key target for Chinese espionage for some time. Sometimes some stupid things are done (like closing down access to a NASA website with articles we've referenced here in regards to Apollo/Apollo Hoax stuff many years after it was opened to public access), but there's a real issue here.
    Last edited by Van Rijn; 2014-Aug-20 at 12:38 AM.

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  15. #45
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    China is upping it's desire to have international cooperation by organizing an international conference with the Association of Space Explorers (ASE), an international nonprofit organization of over 395 astronauts and cosmonauts from 35 nations. Current NASA astronauts are expected to attend but as private individuals.

    http://www.space.com/27034-astronaut...operation.html

    The conference's theme is "Cooperation: To Realize Humanity's Space Dream Together," and will take place from Sept. 10 to 15 in Beijing. The goal, according to congress organizers, is to encourage an open discussion about international cooperation in the future development and planning of human spaceflight.

  16. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    China is upping it's desire to have international cooperation by organizing an international conference with the Association of Space Explorers (ASE), an international nonprofit organization of over 395 astronauts and cosmonauts from 35 nations. Current NASA astronauts are expected to attend but as private individuals.

    http://www.space.com/27034-astronaut...operation.html
    So they are holding a talking shop with no foreign governments attending, what is this supposed to demonstrate exactly?

  17. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    So they are holding a talking shop with no foreign governments attending, what is this supposed to demonstrate exactly?
    The fact that key players in space exploration are talking shop in China is a major achievement by the Chinese government.
    I am because we are
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  18. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The fact that key players in space exploration are talking shop in China is a major achievement by the Chinese government.
    According to your previous posts, they have already been talking shop with representatives from other nations.

    Did you lookup what this association is?
    It's an educational organization and not a lobbying organization. It doesn't mean much to the world of cooperation in space. It means a lot to promoting space in general.
    They do urge cooperation in NEO research, but that's about the extent of their reach into cooperation.

  19. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    According to your previous posts, they have already been talking shop with representatives from other nations.

    Did you lookup what this association is?
    It's an educational organization and not a lobbying organization. It doesn't mean much to the world of cooperation in space. It means a lot to promoting space in general.
    They do urge cooperation in NEO research, but that's about the extent of their reach into cooperation.
    I do realise that but remember that lobbying takes many forms. The people present at the conference are key players in their respective countries. China will be demonstrating their capabilities and also future plans and indicating areas of cooperation.
    I am because we are
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  20. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The fact that key players in space exploration are talking shop in China is a major achievement by the Chinese government.
    please identify these key players as all you have mentioned are an NGO and various private individuals who will not be representing their governments.

  21. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    please identify these key players as all you have mentioned are an NGO and various private individuals who will not be representing their governments.
    By key players, I am referring to active astronauts.

  22. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    By key players, I am referring to active astronauts.
    Who it is emphasized are not representing their agencies, so again please; what key players? For that matter what makes you think astronauts are key players in deciding their agencies/governments policy towards China's space program?

  23. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garrison View Post
    Who it is emphasized are not representing their agencies, so again please; what key players? For that matter what makes you think astronauts are key players in deciding their agencies/governments policy towards China's space program?
    In your definition they might not be but I see them to be largely highly qualified individuals whose views do carry weight.

  24. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    In your definition they might not be but I see them to be largely highly qualified individuals whose views do carry weight.
    So in short yet again you have nothing but your rose tinted view of the Chinese space program?

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    China in cooperation with other countries in manned space program

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/sc..._133633557.htm

    China cooperates with Russia and Europe in its manned space program, with future plans for possible coordinated space module dockings, the country's first astronaut said Wednesday.

    Yang Liwei, deputy chief of China's Manned Space Agency, said at a press conference at the annual meeting of the Association of Space Exploration (ASE) that China has hosted many astronaut exchanges with the United States, Russia and Europe.

    In the past few years, a training exchange was conducted between the China Astronaut Center and European Astronaut Center.

  26. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    China in cooperation with other countries in manned space program
    A little bit of research and information exchange.
    Not one bit of hardware cooperation.

  27. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    A little bit of research and information exchange.
    Not one bit of hardware cooperation.
    That will come when their space station becomes operational and they start the manned moon landing in earnest.

  28. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    That will come when their space station becomes operational and they start the manned moon landing in earnest.
    Your opinion. I'm not saying it won't happen, just that it's not relevant at this point.

  29. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by NEOWatcher View Post
    A little bit of research and information exchange.
    Not one bit of hardware cooperation.
    If you read the article I posted on the Chinese Space Station thread #48 France is helping with Tiangong-2 space station module.
    Last edited by selvaarchi; 2014-Sep-22 at 10:07 AM.

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    Now India joins the list of countries looking at joint cooperation in space with China.

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/i...w/43020333.cms

    Breaking the ice with the northern neighbour, the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), which has collaborated with several countries since 1960s, is finally set to work with the China National Space Administration.

    To start with, a joint team of space scientists from the two countries will prepare a roadmap for a series of missions to be implemented together, Isro chairman K Radhakrishnan told STOI in an exclusive interview three days before the crucial Mars Orbiter Mission is inserted into the Red Planet's orbit.

    "An agreement was signed about two days ago. A joint working team comprising experts from China and India will begin work in the coming weeks," he said. The agreement is aimed at encouraging exchange and cooperation for "peaceful purposes", and a lot of emphasis will be on research and development, including of communication satellites. He, however, said names of people in the team cannot be revealed at this juncture. The agreement is seen as a great opportunity for India.

    "This will be the first (agreement) with China and we look forward to it as both the countries are crucial in creating a strong space presence in Asia. There were some initiations in 1991, but nothing much happened. After that, there were comments here and there, but this is not just a gesture, but a concrete step forward in cooperation," Radhakrishnan said.

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