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Thread: Another space race?

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    "Harmony of the Heavens: Augur of a new space era?"

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/cff/2021/05/...new-space-era/
    Yeah when you compare the LM-5B to the Falcon 9 its clear that if there is a modern space race China is still in the changing room putting on its running shoes. I mean the space station module is based off an old Russian design, the Mars rover is 'inspired' by 30 year old US designs and they are the better part of a decade away from having a heavy lift rocket in the same class as the SLS, which in itself will probably be completely obsolete before the LM-9 flies. By the time China gets a man on the Moon there will probably be a bunch of tourists flown up by Starship standing around to photograph the occasion. After the last Shuttle flight touched down China had a huge opportunity to close the gap, but they chose a pace of progress that makes Blue Origin look frenetic.

  2. #212
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    South Korea also moves slow but is looking ahead 30 yrs, it has a slow plan for improvement over the next 29 years.

    Europe and Japan have many science projects but no manned program.


    The 'Filming' Race?
    https://www.techspot.com/news/89680-...ilm-first.html
    A Race to shoot a new movie in space, Russia will launch actress to the ISS?
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...ce-station-evg

    Two seem to share no love and taunt each other on social media posts
    Jeff Bezos Is Reportedly Very Jealous of Elon Musk’s SpaceX
    https://futurism.com/the-byte/jeff-b...on-musk-spacex

    Egos clash in Bezos and Musk space race https://phys.org/news/2021-05-egos-c...usk-space.html
    Branson lags Musk and Bezos in the billionaire space race
    https://www.livemint.com/opinion/col...845078691.html

    NASA meanwhile halted payment and lunar lander contract with SpaceX over lawsuits from Bezos

  3. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Launch window View Post
    South Korea also moves slow but is looking ahead 30 yrs, it has a slow plan for improvement over the next 29 years.

    Europe and Japan have many science projects but no manned program.


    The 'Filming' Race?
    https://www.techspot.com/news/89680-...ilm-first.html
    A Race to shoot a new movie in space, Russia will launch actress to the ISS?
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/scien...ce-station-evg

    Two seem to share no love and taunt each other on social media posts
    Jeff Bezos Is Reportedly Very Jealous of Elon Musk’s SpaceX
    https://futurism.com/the-byte/jeff-b...on-musk-spacex

    Egos clash in Bezos and Musk space race https://phys.org/news/2021-05-egos-c...usk-space.html
    Branson lags Musk and Bezos in the billionaire space race
    https://www.livemint.com/opinion/col...845078691.html

    NASA meanwhile halted payment and lunar lander contract with SpaceX over lawsuits from Bezos
    At the moment the burgeoning commercial manned spaceflight sector may mean that for programs with a limited budget its better to focus on science and just buy seats as needed. Bezos best chance is the proposal in Congress to add another $10 Billion dollars to the HLS program.

  4. #214
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    "U.S. senator: China landing on Mars a reminder ‘we don’t own space anymore’"

    https://spacenews.com/u-s-senator-ch...space-anymore/

    Just hours after a Chinese rover successfully touched down on the surface of Mars Friday evening, Sen. Angus King (I-Maine) said the achievement puts to rest any doubt that China is a rising space power that will challenge the United States.

    “This landing reinforces the point that we don’t own space any more,” King told reporters May 15 hours after returning from a two-day visit to U.S. Space Command and other military installations in Colorado.

    King, an independent who caucuses with the Senate’s Democratic majority, is the chairman of the Senate Armed Services Committee’s subcommittee on strategic forces, which oversees the Pentagon’s space, nuclear and strategic deterrence programs.
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  5. #215
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    Perhaps the Senator has forgotten that they never did, that whole 'For all mankind' thing clearly slipped his mind. It also sounds like he's to whip up some hysteria and get a bigger budget for something, when he is considerably overstating the degree of Chinese competition. To paraphrase the old Bill Clinton quote, 'its the rockets stupid'. As long as China is dependent on the toxic Long March 2F and the 'unpredictable' Long March 5 its going to be limited to a few high profile prestige missions, based on largely on technology 'inspired by NASA and commercial space programs. In fsct I would say China's insistence that if some Western space agency/company has something they have to have it too is diluting their efforts.

  6. #216
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    Hi Garrison,

    I agree, USA has never owned space. Clearly it has been ahead of everybody.

    And, yes, it's about the rockets. USA's lead here is unprecedented. ROW is barely scratching reusability.

    Cheers,

  7. #217
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    An opinion piece in CNN - "Why China's space program could overtake NASA"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/01/o...ger/index.html

    China has a good chance of becoming the dominant space power in the 21st century, and it's not just looking to copy NASA on the way to the top. Instead, the country is paying close attention to what innovative US companies like SpaceX are doing as well. To get ahead in space, communism is learning from capitalism.
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  8. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    "U.S. senator: China landing on Mars a reminder ‘we don’t own space anymore’"
    "Anymore"

    How can you "own" space, even metaphorically, when multiple nations had access? We certainly didn't "own" it during the years when we had to pay Russia for trips to the ISS.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  9. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    An opinion piece in CNN - "Why China's space program could overtake NASA"

    https://edition.cnn.com/2021/04/01/o...ger/index.html
    Yes I'm sure China's space program is looking at SpaceX, to try and replicate what SpaceX already did a decade ago. The writer of the article is clearly ignorant of the role NASA has played in SpaceX reaching where it is today. Commercial spaceflight is benefiting NASA not competing with it.

  10. #220
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    I do not believe there is a space race not like the old days, Russia might be in a race of sorts to send an actor actress and director to ISS to shoot first Russian Bruce Willis style Top Gun Dallas-I Love Lucy Tv Drama movie in space but its just a private movie entertainment stunt. Is there a 'science race' I'm not sure, its seems like Japan, Europe, China have fantastic abilities with science and robotics but groups like NASA, and JPL and Musk's SpaceX are far ahead in their own areas of expertise.

    I do find it interesting that most Mars missions have ended in failure, the USA NASA was the only group who could land and only after this result NASA and now China have mastered Landing on Mars. I hope Elon Musk delivers a whole lot more, I do not believe he would have become the person he is in Canada or South Africa or South Korea or South Sudan or South Ossetia or any other place on this Earth. While he is a genius and he is his own man with his own unique heritage, I believe the economic, social and political circumstance in the United states of America helped him become what he is today. America in history helps make the guys like von Braun become what they were, it allowed the family of to immigrate and learn and grow and for JFK to make his go to the Moon speech, it set the stage for Wright brothers to get there first with heavier-than-air aircraft and set a place for people like Howard Hughes, Nikola Tesla.

    Europe will try something again, ESA has no manned launcher and has many capable scientists and yet some people...in our current modern age...still now have superstitions and believe in a Mars curse.
    All of the Mars landers have been named after people. If this one from Europe doesnt land safe will they return to naming craft after the old Gods, Olympians, stories of Homer's Odyssey and mythological hero like 'Ulysses' or Gaia.
    Who is Rosalind Elsie Franklin? Rosalind Franklin was a British biophysicist & now known for helping to discover the structure of DNA. Rosalind Franklin an English chemist and X-ray crystallographer did work which added to understanding of the molecular structures of DNA, deoxyribonucleic acid, RNA, the structure of viruses, structures of coal, and graphite. People did not know she helped discover DNA, her works on coal and viruses were appreciated in her lifetime, her contributions to the discovery of the structure of DNA were largely recognized after her death.
    https://profiles.nlm.nih.gov/ps/retr...e/KR/p-nid/186
    https://scitechdaily.com/from-earth-...ry-of-science/
    https://milkshakefrommars.blog/rosalind-franklin/

    People here on the cosmoquest forum believe there are also plans for a permanent manned Chinese presence in space, a crewed orbital station, landing a human on the moon and retrieving soil from an asteroid. There are a lot of similarity with the design of the NASA Rovers but China also has its own unique take on its Rover for example the non-stick frying pan idea for a Solar Panel, a smooth non stick coating was one thing I seen reported to reduce friction between dust particles and Rover surface, it is said the panels can be tilted by electric motors. You are now seeing State media reports translated and mirrored on social media accounts like youtube and twitter, they say Tianwen-1 has already changed its orbit, now it appears to be a 1 day orbit. There are some news reports that say China Lands Spacecraft on Mars for First Time that the Rover 'Zhurong' will talk to Mars Express, or that China plans Hook-up with US Vehicle...I'm not sure if these reports are true but it would seem we are in a different era to the old ColdWar politics of the 1950s and 60s.
    Last edited by Launch window; 2021-May-16 at 05:05 PM.

  11. #221
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    I think the Space Race was a child of the Cold War. What we have going on now is a marathon, not a sprint, or perhaps a general assortment of track and field events, with many winners in various areas of accomplishment.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  12. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    I think the Space Race was a child of the Cold War. What we have going on now is a marathon, not a sprint, or perhaps a general assortment of track and field events, with many winners in various areas of accomplishment.
    Yup. I think it will also be like that. And the contenders will increase in number and funding.

    It's a great time to be a space fan.

  13. #223
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    This YouTube presents the status of China, USA and Russia in 3 parts.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42S5MpNUeVM

    In the skies above our heads, humanity’s titanic geopolitical superpowers are yet again duking it out for supremacy among the stars. Only this time, unlike the 1960s, there’s three of them. Or is there? It’s complicated.

    Join us today as we helmet up and examine the new space race unfolding right now between the US, China and Russia.

    What you might call the oldschool or ‘classic’ space race started in the 1950s, peaked during the 60s, and petered out by the mid 70s. It was, to be sure, an unofficial race. Nobody waved a novelty green flag to set things off. But the two largest economic and technological powers of the day – the United States of America and the Soviet Union – fought bitterly to be the first to make meaningful headway into the cosmos.
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  14. #224
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    "China is gaining ground in space. Should the US be concerned?"

    https://www.space.com/china-space-advances-us-concerns

    This May, China landed a rover on Mars, expanding the nation's growing presence in space. The feat showed the world the nation's space capabilities and fueled fires anew of competition in space, but is there truly cause for concern?

    China became the second nation ever to successfully land on Mars when its Zhurong rover touched down May 14 on the Martian plain of Utopia Planitia . Zhurong's arrival followed NASA's successful landing of its own Perseverance rover in Jezero Crater on Mars Feb. 18. This step is one of many being taken by China to expand its presence in space, including the development of a space station and continued exploration of the far side of the moon by its lunar rover Chang'e 4.

    However, while leaders in the U.S. space sector like new NASA Administrator Bill Nelson and the former astronaut Pam Melroy, the nominee for deputy administrator, congratulated China on this incredible accomplishment, they also shared words of caution, with Nelson describing China as "a very aggressive competitor."
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  15. #225
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    For any headline that asks a question the answer is almost always “no”.

    And no exception here.

  16. #226
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    I think it is nice another country has managed a good Mars landing.

    I’ll be concerned if the Starship project fails, not because of China, but because it is the best current hope of moving space development into a new, much more economical and expanded era. As things are, China needs to play catch-up with the partly reusable Falcon 9. With Starship, space development would change radically for everyone. If Starship doesn’t work out . . . Well, we are largely still stuck with expensive launch.

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  17. #227
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    With regards to China, actually a lot of people (politicians, journalists, etc.) are concerned that Japan is falling behind China in terms of scientific research. There is some truth to it, and with regards to that as well as other places, I think it is important to keep in mind:

    -China is an enormous country, so holding other things equal you would expect to have a lot of output (the same goes for India).
    -China is becoming economically dominant, and so they have more leeway for increasing budgets, which certainly contributes to output.
    -A lot of manufacturing work is now being done in China, so naturally Chinese engineers learn about the latest processes for producing materials, etc.
    -I think the effect of a lack of freedom in general could be important (as a negative factor), but I don't really know how that plays out.
    -There are also certainly cultural effects in general, which is complicated because other countries have unique cultural aspects as well so it affects any country in complex ways.
    As above, so below

  18. #228
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    "China's new Mars rover could accelerate a growing space race"

    https://astronomy.com/news/2021/05/c...ing-space-race

    On May 14, a six-wheeled rover the size of a small car plunged into Mars’ thin atmosphere, braking with a series of parachutes and retro-rockets before touching down in a picture-perfect landing. After a 10-month journey through space, the China-built robot could finally stretch out its solar panels and send an all-clear signal back to Earth. As the news reached the Beijing Aerospace Control Center in the pre-dawn hours, bleary-eyed engineers erupted in thunderous applause.

    The Mars-bound Tianwen-1 spacecraft launched back in July 2020 carrying both a Mars rover and orbiter. It reached the Red Planet on February 10, about a week before NASA's Perseverance rover arrived. Ever since, the Chinese orbiter has been circling Mars, scouting out the best landing site for the rover to carry out its mission.
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  19. #229
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    "NASA Chief Predicts US Race with China to Put Next Human on Moon"

    Surprising how statements of a race always comes from the West. China keeps saying, they are in no race and will do things at their own pace. When aske by a reporter, when will China land humans on the moon? The answer, our priority is build the space station not landing on the moon.

    https://www.moondaily.com/reports/NA..._Moon_999.html

    Chinese technical prowess demonstrated by landing a rover on Mars, plus an upcoming Russia-China announcement on cooperation in space, suggests that the United States could face competition in its bid to land two American astronauts on the Moon in 2024, NASA Administrator Bill Nelson said on Tuesday.

    Nelson said China's successful May 14 landing of a rover on Mars, the second nation apart from the US to achieve the feat, had energized the Chinese space program and possibly provided the impetus for a major announcement on space by Russia and China expected Wednesday afternoon at an international space conference in St. Petersburg.
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  20. #230
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The answer, our priority is build the space station not landing on the moon.
    That doesn't mean much. They're probably going to make it a priority in the next few years. The Lunar activities they're doing now are totally compatible with human landings.

    I'm not saying they're lying per se, but a Moonbase has always been a long term goal, and the current focus on surface exploration does not exclude human activity. They are laying the heavy-lift stepping stones to greater orbital activity, including potential Lunar access by space ferry.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  21. #231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    That doesn't mean much. They're probably going to make it a priority in the next few years. The Lunar activities they're doing now are totally compatible with human landings.

    I'm not saying they're lying per se, but a Moonbase has always been a long term goal, and the current focus on surface exploration does not exclude human activity. They are laying the heavy-lift stepping stones to greater orbital activity, including potential Lunar access by space ferry.
    Yes that is in their long term goal, but it is not a race with the USA. They will do it when they are ready. The moon robotic missions are in their current plans.
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  22. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Yes that is in their long term goal, but it is not a race with the USA. They will do it when they are ready. The moon robotic missions are in their current plans.
    Depends on how you define a "race". Ask the Tortoise and the Hare.
    "I'm planning to live forever. So far, that's working perfectly." Steven Wright

  23. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noclevername View Post
    Depends on how you define a "race". Ask the Tortoise and the Hare.
    Problem with that analogy is the Hare is Elon Musk and he doesn't do naps.

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