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Thread: Another space race?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Was the Intel Xeon Phi developed in China? Was their supercomputer built without Intel's input? I think you're getting into very murky and not terribly relevant territory when you're talking about building supercomputers vs. space technology. Building a supercomputer today is about how much you're willing to spend to put together widely available commercial hardware. With more hardware you can get higher scores. It's not about building a highly specialized or unique machine like the old days.
    China has noted the threat that they might be denied access to the chips coming out of the US and so have developed their own.

    http://news.asiaone.com/news/science...e-china-survey

    China has built the world's fastest supercomputer using locally made microchips, a survey said Monday, the first time the country has taken the top spot without using US technology.

    The Sunway TaihuLight machine is twice as fast as the previous number one, which was built in China with chips from US firm Intel, the Top500 survey of supercomputers said on its website www.top500.org.

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    Selvaarchi,

    I have no idea why you have turned this thread from a space race comment to supercomputer race. Oh, actually, I do. This is a Space Exploration forum. Should you not be getting things off your chest elsewhere?

    Mods, this thread does not belong here. It has turned into a discussion of who has the best supercomputer, unrelated to Space Exploration. It is another of Selvaarchi's strawhorses in defense of China's prestige and prowess. Sigh.

    pg

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    7cscb, if you think a thread has gone off topic, use the Report function (the little triangle to the lower left of each post). Do not discuss in-thread.
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  4. #64
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    Look what the US House Space Subcommittee Hearing is about this Tuesday, September 27, 2016 – 10:00am.

    Topic - Are We Losing the Space Race to China?

    Interesting discussion already in the comments section of the report.
    Last edited by selvaarchi; 2016-Sep-24 at 03:57 PM.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    Look what the US House Space Subcommittee Hearing is about this Tuesday, September 27, 2016 – 10:00am.
    The hearing has now taken place. The video of the hearing was about one hour thirty five minutes. Nothing earth shattering came out of it from what I heard. Love to hear other comments on it.

    http://www.leonarddavid.com/hearing-...na-space-race/

    In his prepared opening statement, U.S. Rep. Lamar Smith (R-Texas), chairman of the U.S. House Committee on Science, Space, and Technology, said that the Obama administration’s cuts to exploration and disruption of exploration planning “has eliminated our opportunities to return to the Moon. And the administration has no real plan for landing people on Mars.”

    Meanwhile, China continues to make progress, Smith said. “We cannot resign ourselves to the remembrance of past achievements. It is time for the United States to reassert its leadership.”

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    A paper just published "what the new President likely won’t be hearing about space, but should be." has some interesting points. The one that caught my eye was the information on China building a space based solar power satellites. That has been mentioned several times by Chinese sources I have posted in this forum.

    In fact it was stated the Chinese were thinking of fabrication the solar panels on the moon (using moon resources) and transporting them to space from there. So reading between the lines, I would lay my bets on the 1st industry to take off in space would be the production of space based solar panels and not mining for precious metals.

    https://warisboring.com/guess-what-c...g-9ce4881643e5

    Next the private sector seeks to create an in-space infrastructure to space-source material and energy for in-space manufacture, construction and servicing for vastly more ambitious endeavors — entirely new heavy industries such as mining, settlement and space solar power.

    And the actors have changed, where once there were basically only two actors of consequence, the United States and the USSR, there are now a host of space-capable actors.

    China has rapidly eclipsed Russia to have the second largest on-orbit constellation of satellites. Asia now hosts the majority of space-faring states. China has rapidly eclipsed Russia in the size and ambition of its space program, and the programs of the Asian states in general appear to be animated by visions of space development.

    And yet in many ways states are not the most dynamic actors — private corporations such as SpaceX have already eclipsed the pace and ambitions of the best-funded space agency, NASA.

    SpaceX will soon send a robotic lander to Mars. Moon Express has received approval for the first private landing in 2017. And the FAA has agreed to review Bigelow’s plans for commercial space operations.

    NASA is in many ways a distractor — it’s not where the action is — and a symptom of policy miscalibration. A focus by the NIC on NASA’s anemic and “ho-hum” destination-focused exploration-for-exploration-sake program will certainly miss the underlying societal trends and opportunities that a President-elect should be aware of.

    The inability of the United States to grasp at a policy level these deep changes has also opened up a new nexus and ecosystem of small forward looking states with investment capital such as Luxemburg and the UAE working with U.S. companies.

    Small programmatic decisions by this president-elect will or will not position U.S. companies to be at the forefront of a new commercial age of space. These near term decisions may decide the speed at which an end-to-end space transportation and supply chain are built to incorporate the solar system into our economic sphere of influence, including promoting or hindering the development of commercial fully-reusable launch vehicles — a lead the United States should consolidate.

    Policy decisions will decide whether we lead or get left behind in the developing multi-trillion-dollar markets. Such decision will decide the rule-sets, governance and finance structures. The necessary precursor to a properly calibrated national space policy is an accurate appraisal by the intelligence community of the mega-trends happening in space.

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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    The hearing has now taken place. The video of the hearing was about one hour thirty five minutes. Nothing earth shattering came out of it from what I heard. Love to hear other comments on it.

    http://www.leonarddavid.com/hearing-...na-space-race/
    Although the report is titled "China Hot on America's Heels in the Space Race" it is really a summery from the above hearing.

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politic...he-space-race/

    The United States appears poised to maintain its historic leading role in the international space race for the near future, but China is showing signs of significantly upping the competition, according to a leading expert in relations between the two countries.

    Dennis C. Shea, chairman of the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission, told members of the House Subcommittee on Space that China is projected to take major steps in its manned spaceflight and space exploration programs over the next few years, drawing significant attention to its efforts in space and potentially setting the stage for a larger leadership role.

    While China’s investment grows, Shea said that for the foreseeable future, at least, the U.S. is positioned to retain scientific and commercial leadership in the space domain.

    “However, China’s more deliberate and comprehensive approach will open up opportunities for Beijing to derive important economic, political and diplomatic benefits from its space program in the near term,” Shea said. “The series of high-profile activities China has planned over the next six years will be particularly influential, as it may appear China is reaching major milestones that the United States has already achieved and is thereby gaining ground, during a time in which the United States is readying for longer-term exploration projects.”

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Van Rijn View Post
    Two years. From your quote "It was the fifth time in a row that Tianhe-2 has been topped the world's fastest supercomputer list since June 2013 [...]"

    And from

    http://www.top500.org/

    The U.S. has the most systems listed in the Top 500 (46.6%), followed by Japan (7.8%), then by China and Germany (tied at 7.4%), with Russia way down at 1.6% . . . despite undisputedly having excellent rocket technology. So among other things, these aren't issues tied too terribly closely together.
    Van Rijn a lot can happen in one and a half years. Not only is China still keeping the lead as far as supercomputers is concerned but also has caught up with the number of supercomputers in the list of the 500 fastest computers.

    China has also progressed in rocket technology and have a rocket (LM-5) which is almost the equivalent of America's delta 4 rocket.

    http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/20..._135828906.htm

    In the previous list released in June, China overtook the United States in the number of total supercomputers installed. That was first time that the United States has not dominated this category since the list was started 23 years ago.

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    Last edited by selvaarchi; 2016-Nov-17 at 03:28 PM.
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    As we begin a new year how do we see the standings of the 6 major space faring nations.

    I personally do not see any change in the standings. Though one nation does stand out in the progress it has made - China.

    The progress of China has been acknowledged be the number of articles on that subject and even a USA Congress hearing on the subject.

    In standings I still view China still behind Russia but that could change in the next 3 to 5 years.

    Below is the latest article on the USA - China relationship.


    http://www.eurasiareview.com/0801201...enge-analysis/

    "It is clear that China will be pressing forward with the development of its space capabilities, including new satellites, launchers, and facilities. Even more important, however, Beijing clearly views space as one of the many tools it can and does employ to further its overall political goals.

    For the United States, including the incoming Trump Administration, it is therefore essential to keep from falling behind China’s burgeoning space efforts. It is equally vital that the United States integrate its space activities with its other political and diplomatic, economic, and military activities as part of its national strategy. Space policy should not be developed in a vacuum."

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  11. #71
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    Is China going to hog the whole vacuum for itself? Then there will be no vacuum left for anyone else

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    Quote Originally Posted by danscope View Post
    Is China going to hog the whole vacuum for itself? Then there will be no vacuum left for anyone else
    China has never said that was their aim. In fact they have looked for international partnership in activities like their space station and Chang'e 4.

    It is the American writers that keep writing about "doom and gloom" stories everytime China catches up with technology that the US has or lately does something new.

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  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by selvaarchi View Post
    ...

    It is the American writers that keep writing about "doom and gloom" stories everytime China catches up with technology that the US has or lately does something new...
    Man, I really wish you could stop pursuing this idea. You decry the notion of a space race but you are the one always comparing. You present China as a victim, convinced the American press is all doom and gloom - it is not. Surely your geopolitical leanings belong in another forum. Please stop.

    I'm pretty sure Danscope was joking anyway.

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    Yes, I was

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    An article on the Asian space race but it dose highlight their capabilities.

    https://www.ft.com/content/5a51f648-...5-9e5580d6e5fb

    A new space race is under way in Asia, with China and India duelling for dominance while other countries make leaps of their own. National pride and defence are major motivators, but so are practical considerations — generating income from satellite launches, mitigating natural disasters and monitoring crops. By establishing a presence in Earth’s orbit, and perhaps the expanse beyond it, governments and companies aim to ensure prosperity on the ground.

  16. #76
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    "A Congressional commission has released a report on China’s development of its own satellite navigation system, Beidou, noting a range of implications for the United States."

    http://gbtimes.com/china/beidou-chin...nal-commission

    The report produced by the US-China Economic and Security Review Commission finds that Beidou has security, economic and diplomatic implications for the United States, though poses no inherent risks to US smartphone users.

    Using a network of 35 satellites in geosynchronous and medium Earth orbits, Beidou is expected to achieve global coverage by 2020, providing position accuracies of better than ten metres worldwide, meaning China joins the US (GPS), Russia (GLONASS) and the European Space Agency (Galileo) as having a developing or near fully operational global navigation satellite system (GNSS).

    The main motives noted for China’s development of Beidou include national security reasons, developing a commercial downstream satellite navigation industry, and building domestic and international prestige.

    “The system’s primary purpose is to end China’s military reliance on GPS, although China’s associated industrial policies will likely affect US firms operating in China’s market. Industry professionals assess there are no inherent risks to products such as smartphones receiving data from BeiDou,” the report summarises.

  17. #77
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    With India releasing 104 satellites in space from a single launch, the so called Asian space race has intensified. The Asian countries themselves do not see it as a race.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/13/as...ia-space-race/

    "Forget the US versus Russia. The real space race is taking place in Asia.

    India's space agency has successfully launched 104 satellites from a single rocket -- a record feat that will cement the country's space smarts after its successful Mars orbiter mission.
    The launch has almost tripled the current record of 37 satellites Russia sent into orbit in 2014."

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  18. #78
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    So... the most satellites launched wins?

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    Quote Originally Posted by danscope View Post
    So... the most satellites launched wins?
    I think of it as a measure of technological competence. With a reliable booster and large carrying capacity for spacecraft, yes, India is a winner. The Mars orbiter was stunning in itself, a feat that has often eluded the Russians and USA.

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    I think it would be good to have a race for most debris removed from orbit.
    Forming opinions as we speak

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by antoniseb View Post
    I think it would be good to have a race for most debris removed from orbit.
    With that suggestion you have 100% of my support.

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    That would be brilliant !!!!

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    This article plays on the space race between China and India. My hope is that there will be more cooperation. Was happy to read that there was a Chinese satellite among the 104 satellites that India launched last month. Hope to read of more cooperation with China's Space Station.

    https://qz.com/919475/space-where-in...-set-to-clash/

    Feb. 15, 2017, will be remembered as a day that many top officials of the Chinese space establishment may want to forget.

    Just a month-and-a-half ago, in December 2016, the China National Space Administration (CNSA) had issued an ambitious white paper highlighting its achievements and future programmes.

    But here they were, congratulating India on the successful launch of a record 104 satellites—101 of them foreign—in a single mission and even acknowledging that China could learn a few things from its south Asian neighbour.

    On that day, Chinese space officials gathered to discuss the Indian achievement and analysed what China must do to make its own space missions commercially viable.

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    The title of the article is "The Second Moon Race". It says it is between the USA and China. It adds that SLS is the US Senate backup plan that could be hasten if China showed any sign of sending humans to the moon.

    http://www.spacedaily.com/reports/Th..._Race_999.html

    The US and China are in an undeclared race back to the Moon.

    At first glance it's easy to dismiss China's efforts as being little more than what the US and Russia achieved decades ago. And while the pace of China's manned launches has been slow with over a year in many cases between launches; looks can be deceptive and China has achieved each critical step towards building a permanent space station within the next few years. Meanwhile, its overall space program builds out each critical element to support regular manned space operations.

    At the same time, the US continues to pursue its own mix of military, science and civil space operations. Compared to every other national space program the US leads by such a distance it's hard to imagine its achievements being eclipsed anytime soon.

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    Now CNBC has two articles on Chinese and Russian progress. Bottom line is a push to get the USA to invest more on space.

    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/28/china...e-program.html


    Though Chinese space authorities have publicly announced the country's ambitions to forge itself into a major space power by the early 2030s, President Xi Jinping's government is also considering ways to direct spending that will push Chinese tech companies toward breakthroughs in downstream technologies like robotics, aerospace, artificial intelligence, big data analytics and other 21st-century technologies.

    The majority of China's space ambitions remain focused on boosting Chinese prestige at home and abroad. But a push within Xi's government to triple spending on space science as well as the emergence of a small but growing group of privately backed space start-ups suggest that both Chinese industry and government see long-term economic benefits in their investments in space technologies.

    That increasing flow of capital toward both China's state-run and private space-related tech companies could place increased pressure on NASA, and eventually on commercial space companies in the United States and Europe.
    http://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/29/space...&doc=104369767

    A space arms race of sorts is underway with weapons under development or in the arsenals of China, Russia and the U.S. Space weapons include satellite jammers, lasers and high-power microwave gun systems.

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    Now an article coming out of China that talks of a rocket that takes off like a plane and lands like one.

    http://m.scmp.com/news/china/society...echnology-race

    "China has made “significant *progress” in building a spacecraft that can take off and land using an airstrip the way planes do, a development that one expert says could narrow the space technology gap with the United States.

    The spaceplane is being developed by the China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (Casic) as part of Beijing’s space programme. The aim is for it to carry both astronauts and cargo to and from space missions, Liu Shiquan, vice-president of Casic, a key defence contractor, said.

    Liu revealed the plan at the Global Space Exploration Conference in Beijing on Monday."

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    Advances China made in 2016 in their space programme by the U.S. Defense Department.

    https://www.spaceintelreport.com/u-s...space-program/

    "The unclassified version of the U.S. Defense Department’s annual report to the U.S. Congress on Chinese military power is an overview of publicly verifiable developments interlaced with speculation about what’s going on behind closed doors.
    As is true of many governments, it is difficult to determine what part of publicly available writing by Chinese specialists from academia or the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) has made its way into policy and development programs, and what has not gone beyond the technical-paper stage.
    Here are the excerpts dealing with China’s space-based systems taken from the report, “Military and Security Developments Involving the People’s Republic of China 2017.”"

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  28. #88
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    "Sputnik" has published an article that says the China space programme is driven not only by the goal of space exploration itself but also by politics.

    http://www.spacedaily.com/m/reports/...itics_999.html

    "Experts told Sputnik they believe China's space ambitions are driven not only by the goal of space exploration itself but also by politics. Tommy Yang - China's commitment to its space exploration programs is driven by the same sense of national pride that fueled the "space race" between the Soviet Union and the United States in the 1960s, experts told Sputnik.

    China's space programs topped the What China's Space Ambitions Have to Do With Politicss this week after Chinese authorities unveiled more details of the nation's Lunar exploration and manned spaceflight missions during the 2017 Global Space Exploration Conference in Beijing."

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    I don't recall Sputnik properly informing on space.

    Now they claim part of China's space program is politically motivated? lol.

    And this is newsworthy?

  30. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7cscb View Post
    I don't recall Sputnik properly informing on space.

    Now they claim part of China's space program is politically motivated? lol.

    And this is newsworthy?
    It is a different perspective on the news and as such worth reporting.

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