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Thread: Middle-aged kit building

  1. #391
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    I think he was making a full sized Mars lander mock up wasn't he?

  2. #392
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    My dad has quite the collection of HO/1:72/1:76/25mm and 15 mm figures.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_c...&v=OIUmcC2lX2Q

    Click the link to see a virtual tour of his war room.
    Solfe

  3. #393
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    I've also started a kit. It's an Alpine A310 V6. The nifty thing about it is it's in 1:1 scale and it comes assembled. You just need to completely disassemble it, fix stuff, and then hope you can put it back together. So far I'm in step 3 of the manual: getting the fuel tank out.

    Oh, and the manual only contains the disassembly instructions.

  4. #394
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    Hah! Back when I was interested in model railroading, one of the magazines had the monthly Dremel Kitbashing Award, for taking a kit and "bashing" it into something else. One month the winner was a steam locomotive, "in 12 inches to the foot" scale. A railroad had acquired a steam locomotive from one that was going out of business, and restored it to operational condition. It wasn't a type that they had ever operated, so they gave it the characteristics it WOULD have had if they had used it.
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  5. #395
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    is there some greebling on the S-II? I'm rather struggling to identify some of the structures. ��
    I have no idea where their suggested livery has come from. It bears no relationship to any of the Saturn V stacks I have ever come across. It's certainly not even close to the AS-506. 😡

  6. #396
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    I have no idea where their suggested livery has come from. It bears no relationship to any of the Saturn V stacks I have ever come across. It's certainly not even close to the AS-506. 
    It's the SA-500F paint scheme, if it's the same as the 1/96 version.

    Grant Hutchison

  7. #397
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    It's the SA-500F paint scheme, if it's the same as the 1/96 version.

    Grant Hutchison
    Yes, that looks like the same livery. How curious. 🤔

  8. #398
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    Yes, that looks like the same livery. How curious. 樂
    I think it was the only complete Saturn V in existence at the time the kit was produced. There are a lot of other early details on the kit that didn't last until Apollo 11 - eight ullage rockets on the S-II interstage, for example.

    Grant Hutchison

  9. #399
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    I think it was the only complete Saturn V in existence at the time the kit was produced. There are a lot of other early details on the kit that didn't last until Apollo 11 - eight ullage rockets on the S-II interstage, for example.

    Grant Hutchison
    Well, I guess they have only had 50-odd years to reflect the livery and configuration actually flown... ��
    Last edited by AGN Fuel; 2019-Feb-14 at 07:01 AM.

  10. #400
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    Well, I guess they have only had 50-odd years to reflect the livery and configuration actually flown... ��
    And they keep making "lunar landing anniversary" reissues of the same old tooling, with pictures of the moon landing on the box art.

    Grant Hutchison

  11. #401
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    i admire your fierce insistence on authenticity. A rare trait.
    In view of these kind words, I thought I'd drop back to the forum just to show how things worked out with the Revell 1/96 S-II, after it was extensively revised and then detailed with New Ware resin and photoetch parts and a ridiculous number of short 0.5mm brass rods.
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    Grant Hutchison

  12. #402
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    In view of these kind words, I thought I'd drop back to the forum just to show how things worked out with the Revell 1/96 S-II, after it was extensively revised and then detailed with New Ware resin and photoetch parts and a ridiculous number of short 0.5mm brass rods.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Grant Hutchison
    That's really nice detailing there.

  13. #403
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    In view of these kind words, I thought I'd drop back to the forum just to show how things worked out with the Revell 1/96 S-II, after it was extensively revised and then detailed with New Ware resin and photoetch parts and a ridiculous number of short 0.5mm brass rods.
    Whoa.

  14. #404
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    Thanks.

    Grant Hutchison

  15. #405
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    In view of these kind words, I thought I'd drop back to the forum just to show how things worked out with the Revell 1/96 S-II, after it was extensively revised and then detailed with New Ware resin and photoetch parts and a ridiculous number of short 0.5mm brass rods.
    Grant Hutchison
    They are exquisite. What you have achieved there is genuinely magnificent.

    I can only imagine the time and dedicated focus this must have taken.

  16. #406
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    Grant, I saw this video from Scott Manley the other day, and was wondering if you've seen it and how you'll be doing your nozzles!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  17. #407
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    Quote Originally Posted by AGN Fuel View Post
    They are exquisite. What you have achieved there is genuinely magnificent.

    I can only imagine the time and dedicated focus this must have taken.
    It's kind in you to say such a thing.
    The time is largely spent in the planning - doing things in the right order to make the job easier. In the case of the S-II heatshield, I spent a while just staring at the parts, figuring out how to get it properly levelled and orientated relative to the engine bells, while also leaving myself room to measure and install all the scratch-built support structure.

    Grant Hutchison

  18. #408
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    Grant, I saw this video from Scott Manley the other day, and was wondering if you've seen it and how you'll be doing your nozzles!
    Yeah, the absence of batting from all the kit F-1's is a well-known problem.
    Real Space Models make batted resin replacements in various scales, which are a boon for the lazy.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    (Kit part on the left, resin replacement on the right.)
    They're going to need a fair bit of filling and smoothing to make them serviceable, and then I'll wrap them in appropriately sized strips of Bare-Metal Foil, in two different textures, to reproduce the original appearance as best I can.

    Shouldn't be long before I get to that stage. I've just finished the hard work on the S-II aft interstage - the Revell kit has the wrong shape of ullage rockets, in the wrong places, and with too many for the AS-506 I'm building. So I've had to remove all the moulded kit attachment points, restore the stringers in those areas, and then add resin parts.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    (Original on the left, revised on the right.)

    So just a bit of paint, and we're on to the S-IC at last.

    Grant Hutchison

  19. #409
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    Yeah, the absence of batting from all the kit F-1's is a well-known problem.
    Real Space Models make batted resin replacements in various scales, which are a boon for the lazy.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	F-1.jpg 
Views:	44 
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ID:	24100
    (Kit part on the left, resin replacement on the right.)
    They're going to need a fair bit of filling and smoothing to make them serviceable, and then I'll wrap them in appropriately sized strips of Bare-Metal Foil, in two different textures, to reproduce the original appearance as best I can.

    Shouldn't be long before I get to that stage. I've just finished the hard work on the S-II aft interstage - the Revell kit has the wrong shape of ullage rockets, in the wrong places, and with too many for the AS-506 I'm building. So I've had to remove all the moulded kit attachment points, restore the stringers in those areas, and then add resin parts.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	interstage.jpg 
Views:	44 
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ID:	24101
    (Original on the left, revised on the right.)

    So just a bit of paint, and we're on to the S-IC at last.

    Grant Hutchison
    I'm now rather ashamed I thought you might not know of that issue. Apologies!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  20. #410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trebuchet View Post
    I'm now rather ashamed I thought you might not know of that issue. Apologies!
    No worries. The video guy kind of made it seem that this was a surprising and little-known issue. I guess the new Apollo 11 documentary has just brought it to the attention of a new batch of people, but there are actually multiple extant video sequences of the F-1 engines during various Saturn launches, and they (and stills from them) have been around in the public domain for decades.
    There are also batting diagrams buried in the massive amount of Saturn documentation, which I'll use as reference.

    ETA: An amusing description of the development and testing of the F-1 insulation, from Bilstein's Stages To Saturn.
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    Grant Hutchison
    Last edited by grant hutchison; 2019-Mar-25 at 01:34 PM.

  21. #411
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    Mice found wires around the R-7 pad edible, and some engineers put horse manure over water lines keeping them from freezing next to LOX pits during the early use of ATLAS ICBMs, as per memories of space books I went through over the years.

  22. #412
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    No worries. The video guy kind of made it seem that this was a surprising and little-known issue. I guess the new Apollo 11 documentary has just brought it to the attention of a new batch of people, but there are actually multiple extant video sequences of the F-1 engines during various Saturn launches, and they (and stills from them) have been around in the public domain for decades.
    There are also batting diagrams buried in the massive amount of Saturn documentation, which I'll use as reference.

    ETA: An amusing description of the development and testing of the F-1 insulation, from Bilstein's Stages To Saturn.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Grant Hutchison
    I already knew they threw grenades inside the F1 to test the combustion chamber stability. But the poor thing also got blasted by an afterburner.

  23. #413
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    Here's how the F-1s turned out.
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    The real batting was applied both as generic shaped pads and as custom covers for various structures, and the two different constructions seem to have had slightly different reflective properties - using paint and foil, I've attempted to reproduce something like the appearance here.

    Grant Hutchison

  24. #414
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    My first thought was that those are some strange daleks!
    Cum catapultae proscriptae erunt tum soli proscript catapultas habebunt.

  25. #415
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    Nicely done. I'm guessing that the red tips are fuel and oxidizer intakes?

  26. #416
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    Quote Originally Posted by schlaugh View Post
    Nicely done. I'm guessing that the red tips are fuel and oxidizer intakes?
    They're actually the gimbal actuators; kerosene and LOX flowed in through the round-ended rectangles on the opposite side of the base structure.
    The four outer engines gimballed in two planes to keep the centre of mass balanced on the thrust axis, and those red-and-white structures represent (rather poorly) the "fueldraulic" pistons that steered the engines. The centre engine was fixed in place, so its gimbal outriggers are simply supported by vertical rods, which you can see in my photo. I had to scratch-build the outriggers and rods for that engine, since the kit doesn't provide either.

    Grant Hutchison

  27. #417
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    They're actually the gimbal actuators; kerosene and LOX flowed in through the round-ended rectangles on the opposite side of the base structure.
    The four outer engines gimballed in two planes to keep the centre of mass balanced on the thrust axis, and those red-and-white structures represent (rather poorly) the "fueldraulic" pistons that steered the engines. The centre engine was fixed in place, so its gimbal outriggers are simply supported by vertical rods, which you can see in my photo. I had to scratch-build the outriggers and rods for that engine, since the kit doesn't provide either.

    Grant Hutchison
    That was an interesting read to understand why the engineers decided on the fuel-based solution vs. hydraulic fluid. And even then they worked with two different fuels; RJ-1 for checkout testing and RP-1 for flight, as well as the component testing with MIL-H-5606.

  28. #418
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    Zenit and Delta had different approaches towards the temperature of the kerosene. One chilled it--to pack more in. That's why you should buy gas/petrol when it is coldest.

    The other warmed the fuel for more energy.

    Thing is--I can't remember which did what. Something from Jim at nasaspaceflight

  29. #419
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    Here are the completed F-1 engines and firewall in their first dry assembly with the S-1C aft skirt and engine fairings.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    It shows where those "strange dalek arm" gimbal actuators actually fit in.
    Pretty much everything visible replaces Revell kit parts. Resin engines, firewall, fairings and fins. I scratch-built the semicircular firewalls within the fairings, since neither the kit nor NewWare's resin gets the shape right. The detailing on the firewall comes from decals I drew and printed myself, since the resin replacement provides nothing but the tile margins. The bit of aft skirt you can see is a kit part, but the hold-down post in the middle, between the two fairings, is a resin addition - it was, as you might imagine, slightly nerve-wracking to hack four long slots of the right size and shape in the kit's basic styrene part, so that the resin detail could be slipped in. The hold-down posts occupy almost the whole depth of the aft skirt, so there wasn't much left actually holding things together by the time I'd finished the slots.

    Grant Hutchison

  30. #420
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    Quote Originally Posted by grant hutchison View Post
    The bit of aft skirt you can see is a kit part, but the hold-down post in the middle, between the two fairings, is a resin addition - it was, as you might imagine, slightly nerve-wracking to hack four long slots of the right size and shape in the kit's basic styrene part, so that the resin detail could be slipped in. The hold-down posts occupy almost the whole depth of the aft skirt, so there wasn't much left actually holding things together by the time I'd finished the slots.
    I'm at a loss for words. Wow, just wow.

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